Cant find family between two dates

[taramcdsmall]

HUM

I don't know Denise, I could be WAY off but something is just not ringing right here.

Are you saying that in 1899 James was a Clerk YET the following year he was a shopkeeper ?

I'm also concerned re the James's Street references ~

There are two different references to James's Street ~

John & Elizabeth are on James Street NORTH

James' address in 1899 was James Street SOUTH

Two DIFFERENT James' Street.

Tara

[denmcn]

Hi Tara, I know - was a bit thrown by the addresses too initially, the only reference to James Street North is on the 1901 Census for his brother and sister....  Thoms and James' marriage cert say James Street South. Elizabeths burial details say 5 James' Street North Strand Dublin... no punctuation!!

I've googled James' Street South and dont get any hits, except those like James' Street, South Dublin Union etc. I've always presumed it was just an anomaly.... change of name of street or something. Agreed, James' Street itself is very close to Meath Street, and to Ushers Island where John and Elizabeth ended up (I think!!) but I havent been able to find any reference to any McEvoys around about there, except a 28yo woman in the workhouse and she was a widow so not a McEvoy by birth (1901 census)

Also locationally, James' Street North is very close to North Strand Road - where James and Mary set up shop, its close to Summerhill where she lived at the time of their marriage.

re James being a Clerk (1899) / Shopkeeper (1901) .... I rang Mam this evening about this. She told me that her father (James' son) and all his siblings were given a sum of money when they got married, to help set them up...... maybe this was because James and Mary had the same done for them (Mary's father was an Engineer so would have had a few bob more than the average man. He was also English and mam remembers her Dad telling her that his mothers family were awful snobs!!!!)   

James also had two children who died and were buried in the same grave as his parents - both were listed as "tobacconists child" (1912 and 1914).

I dont know where that leaves things, I always tied all events together and even now that I've gone over them all again this evening I cant find any other options

[taramcdsmall]

Hi Denise

Well we won't despair just yet 

My first question is: What Thom's exactly is it that you keep referring to ?

Can you post it here so I can see what we're working with ~ Thanks.

My second question is: How sure are you that the John / Elizabeth McEvoy on the 1901 Census are James' siblings ?

My third question is: Where did John & Elizabeth go after 1901 ? Did they pass away as I don't see them on the 1911 Census ?

My fourth question is: Whom EXACTLY was in the burial plot of William McEvoy ?

My fifth question is: Do you have any of James' children's baptisms, just wondering were any family members Godparents ?

I'm just hoping that MAYBE by working on John & Elizabeth we MAY get leads !

Anyway, we need to look at this a few ways ~

I think you MAY be making the presumption that James, Elizabeth & John were from Dublin City ~ they MAY have been from outside the City and hence will NOT show up on irishgenealogy. There are also some Dublin City churches which do not feature on irishgenealogy, mainly St. Paul's.

Another thing is, was there ever any mention of Elizabeth being William's SECOND wife ~ I'm just wondering how if Elizabeth was James' Mum, how come it was only his FOURTH daughter whom was named after her ?

Lots of Q's for you but you never know how one little nugget may give us some leads !

Tara

[denmcn]

Hi Tara - thanks so much for all this.

By Thoms I mean the Thoms directories that are to be found in the library in Pearse Street.

We've been working on the assumption that John and Elizabeth are to be found here: http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Usher_s_Quay/Usher_s_Island/63264/ and this is the address given for John by James when being buried.

You'll see this gives Johns occupation as being labourer in Railway Works - his burial details show him to be a Trimmer. He is buried with James and two more of James' children. John died in 1916 from cancer - James buried him but we've no reference to Elizabeth after 1911.

yes - sure that J & E are James' siblings based on the address being the same (almost ) as James' marriage cert.

Those in Williams grave are:
WILLIAM  MCEVOY , died 15th Nov 1868
ELIZABETH  MCEVOY , died 19th Dec 1887  (Williams wife - mother to John, James & Elizabeth)
NORAH  MC EVOY , died 15th Apr 1914  (James' daughter)
ELIZABETH  MC EVOY , died 17th Jan 1912    "
BERNARD  SMITH , died 6th Jun 1909  (buried by John McEvoy - no idea who he is.... we thought that maybe he was a BIL but after looking into it ruled him out)
MARY  MORTIMER , died 15th Mar 1832  (no idea who she is either - again, toyed with the idea that she may have been Elizabeths mother and didn't rule it out for specific reasons but couldn't find anything either that suggested that she was).

Love your suggestion of Baptism details for James' children - I just spoke to Mam (as she holds all the hard copies and I generally look after the rest). She doesn't have them, mainly because we knew more or less who they were (being her Dad and his siblings)..... that's her next job now!! She may make use of  her free travel and take a trip upto the big smoke to root the baptism certs out

Thank you so much for taking all this time to help, we really appreciate it.
Denise

[taramcdsmall]

Hiya

Well

1. We shall rule Mary Mortimer out.

Mary's grave (after not being used for so many years) was sold on and the McEvoy's went into it.

2. Bernard Smith however WE MUST get a lead from this chap !!!!!!!!!

Do you have an age for him when he died ?

Tara

[taramcdsmall]

Denise,

Just back to the Thoms again.

Yup, I know what they are. I just would like to know which ones EXACTLY you have found with your family members on it.

Tara

[denmcn]

Really sorry Tara - I didnt see this reply.

..re Thoms, sorry what I meant was that it wasnt online!! To be honest I didnt record which years we checked but for 1904 the reference was on p. 1522. 1893 was the earliest I could find - iirc there was no reference of the street before that.

John is listed on the 1910 Electoral List for Ushers Island but I cant find him for 1908 and 1909

Bernard Smith - died 6th June 1909, address "Rear of St Helens, Highfield Road, Rathgar" Age 66 and married.... this is all from burial records in Glasnevin. There is a possible match, albeit a bit young on 1901 census - garden labourer living in Carysfort Avenue, married to Mary. My initial thoughts were that maybe he was a BIL of John, James and Elizabeth but we havent been able to tie this in. This is as much as I know about him.

re Christening records for James' children - Mam is going to look into that next time she's in Dublin. I emailed St Agathas to enquire but havent received a reply yet. James had ten children (that we know of!!) so really looking forward to seeing who their godparents were - great idea, thanks a million.

Daithi - thanks for those links for Wm McEvoy and Eliza Hudson. I've looked into the online records available for four children - Rebecca, Mary, William Joseph and Elizabeth. They appear to have lived in Greenmount, Harolds Cross. Both Mary and Elizabeth were still living there in 1901 census and because of this we've ruled this particular family out.

Thanks again to all for your help
Denise

[taramcdsmall]

Sorry Denise

I can't find anthing else

Tara

[denmcn]

Thanks for all your time and help Tara, I really appreciate it. I'll post again when we get baptismal details, hopefully we might find a few more family members that way
Densie