Magner Roxbury/Boston Massachusetts

[Phenmark]

Hi, I am seeking info on my ggg grandparents, John D.MAGNER (b. 1924 in Ireland; d. 1887 Boston), and his wife Bridget MCDONALD (b. Ireland 1834; d. Boston 1904). According to censuses and city directories, John made a living as a a baker. Per his record of death, his parents were John and Hannah. Bridget's father was Martin MCDONALD (according to her record of death). I would specifically like to ascertain what county and township from which they emigrated. I found a passengers manifest (Ship Mariner departed Liverpool en route to Boston Sep. 1854)  on ancestry.com, which lists the following group of 4 people:
Dennis MAGNER: age : 50 occupation: baker born: Ireland
Honorah MAGNER age: 50; born: Ireland
John MAGNER: age 30; born: Ireland (no occupation stated)
Bridget MAGNER age : 22; born: Ireland
My hunch is that the Dennis and Honorah listed in the ship manifest are John's parents, and John and Bridget are husband and wife, married in Ireland. The fact that Dennis' occupation is stated as "baker" lends further credence to a family connection between he and John, I'm just not sure if they are father and son..
The record of death for John D. MAGNER names his father as John and his mother as Hannah.. I wonder if his father's name was John Dennis (and went by Dennis), and John D was a junior (which would account for the "D" as John D's middle initial),
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

[ShaunJ]

Rootsireland.ie has a marriage in Co Cork in 1854 for John Magner and Bridget McDonnell - must be a possibility

[Nettie]

I know it's only supposition but given that they appear together and the listing is not in alphabetical order, then it does look like they are travelling as a family unit.  All the others on the page sharing surnames also look like family groups.

[Phenmark]

Rootsireland.ie has a marriage in Co Cork in 1854 for John Magner and Bridget McDonnell - must be a possibility

Thank you, Shaun.
I checked that out. I was leaning toward County Cork as the place of origin, and 1854 as a marriage year fits perfectly! What's more, Dennis Magner is listed as a witness.  I suppose if Dennis was John's father, he could have served as witness, although the father's name is simply stated as Magner. My other question would be the McDonald/McDonnell surname of Bridget. When she died in Boston her m/n was stated as McDonald. Were these two names commonly used interchangeably?
Thanks for your help. I think this might be a solid lead.
Gratefully,
Steve

[Phenmark]

I know it's only supposition but given that they appear together and the listing is not in alphabetical order, then it does look like they are travelling as a family unit.  All the others on the page sharing surnames also look like family groups.

Yes! Just what I was thinking. I found a 1900 Census just last night which has Bridget living with her daughter and son-in-law, widowed. Year of immigration was given as 1854! So, I'm fairly certain the ship manifest lists my John and Bridget, and would be willing to bet Dennis and Honora are either John's parents or aunt and uncle.
Thank you very much!
Steve

[Phenmark]

I thought I would post an update to this thread, as I have discovered a few things I'd like to share. I located a Petition for Naturalization on familysearch for John D. Magner. Incidentally, I am very grateful to John D. Magner for always including the middle initial "D" in his name. It has helped me locate him through hundreds of census and directory searches, as well as identifying which children are his in the in the Boston records of birth. It seems that the middle initial "D" was very important to him, and followed him throughout his life.
Anyway, the naturalization record states that he was born in Cork, 24 Jan, 1824, and he arrived in New York in 1840. This refutes my earlier theory that he and his wife Bridget (McDonald) arrived in 1854 in Boston already married (as seen in the passenger list attached at the beginning of this post), which suggests that they were married in Boston (unless of course he returned to Ireland, got married, and came back. Please let me know if this was a common practice).
 I performed a search on one of the witnesses named on the record of naturalization, and discovered that he was a baker (the same occupation as John) in the same area of Boston, at that time! However, I could not find John arriving on any ships into NY in 1840. There's always more to find!

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[taramcdsmall]

Hi There

The Naturalization Record wasn't until 1876 and it's quite possible that the date of 1840 was given in error.

I think all of the previous paperwork that you have is too thorough for this one date to question it.

Also, re a previous question of yours McDonnell / McDonald - my name is Tara McDonnell and even to this day I have to specify the spelling of my surname as if you were to leave it to people it would be 'pot luck' as to how it would be spelt.

It has been near on impossible for me to get very far back with this branch of my tree due to the surname being spelt differently on different paperwork over the years.

Tara

[Phenmark]

Thank you for your thoughts and info on McDonnell/ McDonald.
I'm actually starting to consider the possibility that arrival dates were intentionally stated so as to prove an immigrant's minor status upon arrival.  I have found 3 ancestors' naturalization records on the familysearch site. It has been a great resource.  However, all three recorded arrival dates that were many years earlier than I had thought. The wording on the Massachusetts naturalization record goes, "He arrived at (city) in the United States in (date), being then a minor, under the age of eighteen years."
That last clause about being a minor is part of the printed document. I don't know what to make of that. It is hard to assume that John D. Magner could mistake landing in Boston in 1854 for New York, 1840. If the above attached passenger manifest is his, he either returned to Ireland, got married, and came back, or he deliberately put reported an earlier date of arrival (and a different city)!
 Hmmmm.........

[taramcdsmall]

Well,

perfect example re errors are in your above message is that you have stated 1954 and 1940

WHEN

it should state 1854 and 1840

To second guess peoples reasons for doing things up to 180 years ago would be fruitless.

You would be dealing with illiteracy for a start which could lead to innocent errors, and then there could any number of political or financial reasons for deliberate changes to places and dates !

Tara