Looking for the COURTIS family

[BCC]

Hi there and once again thank you to all who have helped me.   

I am certain of the following:

- Audrey, Lillian, Hilda and James were brother and sisters - I met them all.

- Lillian and Hilda arrived in SA 1914 with adults.

- Audrey married Ernst Wright in the UK and travelled together to SA landing in Algoa bay. They had one daughter named Billy.

- James married a Katie ?? and they had two children Joy and Eric

- Hilda married and divorced a ?? Inkpen ,,, they had one daughter named Beryl

- Lillian married Frank Baker ,,, they had two sons named Reginald (killed in action WWII) and Dudley ,,, who was my late father.

- Children born to Audrey, Hilda, James and Lillian where all born here in South Africa.

- Only Audrey married in the UK.

- Lillian and Hilda married out here in SA.

- Cornwall is the only place I know this familyl definitely came from.


I am uncertain of the following:

- How many other siblings there were in this family ,, I recall there being a Jack-Jack and one other.   Jack-Jack (married a Nellie ?? ) and both were murdered here in SA ,,,  one of the children drowned in Cornwall.

- James and Katie could have married in the UK before travelling out here

- The adults who accompanied Lillian and Hilda in 1914 ,, grandparents or parents ?


The only possible link to identify the adults who accompanied Lillian and Hilda could be from the marriage cert of Audrey and Ernst Wright.  The above is all the history I know of this family as all passed away here in South Africa decades ago.

Thank you
BCC (Bren)

[rosie99]

Hi Bren

I think from the information that we have found the only way to progress on this with absolute certainty is for you to get Lilian's marriage certificate. I presume they give fathers details on them in SA.

I will keep looking at this though but later today. 

Rosie

[BCC]

Morning Rosie,

I will try and obtain this and yes both parents info is on the marriage cert over here.   The only firm documentation I have is my grandfathers (Frank Baker - born Grahamstown, SA) baptismal cert.   This Country is decades behind with the ease of obtaining this sort of documentation and the record keeping of such leaves nothing to the imagation, but I will do my best and revert. 

I don't think I'm in for an easy ride with this side of the family ,,, they kept pretty much to themselves and didn't talk much about distant relatives ,,, makes me wonder why ,,, could be there were divorces, re-marriages etc which was taboo to talk about in those days.

Thank you for yours and everyones help so far, it's been much appreciated.
BCC (Bren)

[rosie99]

The children with her are:-

James P, aged 11, born Bay of Biscay
Catherine L, aged 10, born Africa
Ellen M, aged 8, born St Michaels Mount, Cornwall
George E, aged 4, born St Michaels Mount
Walter P, aged 3, born Gwennap
unnamed, 2 day old girl, born Gwennap

so Hilda and Lilian could be children (so far) of James, George or Walter.....

Edit :  Rebecca is 31 in 1891

The unnamed child ties in with this birth registration from freebmd
Births June qtr 1891   
Audrey May Courtis     Redruth reg district ref  5c 195
 
which would indicate that Rebecca is the mother of Audrey 

Rosie

[BCC]

Hi Rosie,
you could be correct here. I did read this on a previous message sent and the only other name of George sounded remotely like names I had heard in this family.   Rebecca and James are definites.  The very strong point was St Michaels Mount as all the family had a picture on their wall of this Island and my late sister and I were told that this is where most of the family were born.   

I can't remember having heard of an Ellen or Catherine.  I do have a number of very old family photos and neither my late sister and I knew who these great aunts/uncles where. My gran passed away when I was 16yo and these photos only came to life when we sifted through dads (Dudley) stuff after he died in 1975 when was I was 25 yo.  By that stage, Audrey and Ernest had passed away.  Hilda resided in Johannesburg ,,, and only lived another 2 years after my dad passed away.

If I knew how or if possible, I would post a pic of GG Courtis and aunts in case there is anyone else with a pic of the same people.  The information you have sent could very well be my family, though not confirmed.

Thanks a ton
BCC (Bren)

[rutht22000]

I did wonder if that uunamed child could have been that Audrey which led me to believe that Hilda and Lilian could well have been children and not grandchildren of James & Rebecca as they dates are just that bit too tight.

Gwennap is very near Redruth and it being June Quarter fits entirely with a census that would have been taken in the April with a 2 day old baby on.

[BCC]

Hi Ruth,

The more I have racked my brain over this, the more I'm inclined to believe that Rebecca and James where the parents and not grand-parents ,,, that the children mentioned in the list are my grans brothers and sisters though I had never heard of some of them.   
For instance James P could well be the husband of Katie. (I mentioned above) My late cousins from that marriage where a lot older than I am.  Also the name George rings a bell somewhere.

There are 3 families with the name Courtis in South Africa ,,, one lives in Cape Town and it was in trying to locate family members that I found him.  Without doubt, we believe we are cousins as he also has a pic of the Isle of Mount Michael in his home ,,, inherrited from his parents.  As to how we are related is difficult as his late father never spoke much about his family. He has just mentioned to me that he recalls Spain coming into his family somehow ,,, from what dates or how, or even if this helps me, we have no idea.  This cousin is 51yo and I am 60yo, so his G.father could well be one of Lillians older brothers, though he never knew his G.father or his G.fathers name.  We believe something happened within the family which split them apart ,, hence the "silence" within this family ,,, so sad for us, the descendants.

Thanks a mil
BCC (Bren)

[rutht22000]

The Spain bit could be James P - the Bay of Biscay is just north of Spain.

Just had a look at James P seems to have been born on 22 June 1879 on board a ship called "Pretoria".  Mum & Dad are named James G Courtis and Rebecca D (Johns).  Looks like Rebecca and James went out not long after they married. Do you know what James G did for a living by any chance?

On other things - Rebecca Dusting John was the daughter of Thomas John & Catherine (Kitty) Dusting, born 1860 at St Michael's Mount.

[rosie99]

There is a Lilian Beatrice Courtis bn Plymouth in September qtr 1901 so she wouldn't be on the 1901 census.

Rosie

The more I think about this I think that this is not your Lilian and that both she and Hilda were not born in England.   
As for Audrey, I do believe the 1891 registration is yours though I can find no trace of her going to SA, married or unmarried - nor can I find a marriage for her in England.

There is always the chance that Lilian and/or Hilda were illegitimate children of Catherine or Ellen.

Rosie