Author Topic: Caroline Kinsman born in Carharrack  (Read 5584 times)

Offline selwynfroggitt

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Re: Caroline Kinsman born in Carharrack
« Reply #9 on: Monday 30 June 14 09:24 BST (UK) »
hello Cas..
I have John Henry Kinsman in 1901 said to be a retired Army Officer and his mother with him... I did note 1871 living at East Taphouse  but this now seems to be a mistake... I should have followed it properly when I had Ancestry but it didn't seem important then..I did check for John Henry 1881 and 1891 but toook the army career as reason for not finding him... he died in 1937 in Poole
I had trouble with this man before as I had the twin sons born in 1932 and tried to trace a John Henry Kinsman born after 1900 but John Henry married again in 1930 and was 68 when the twins were born... so assumptions  led me astray before..

Offline Cas (stallc)

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Re: Caroline Kinsman born in Carharrack
« Reply #10 on: Monday 30 June 14 09:34 BST (UK) »
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=690627.msg5345187#msg5345187

There is a £1 month sub on FindMyPast..if you wish to take it up, it is good value, just remember to untick the box not to renew, if you wish.

There are very good service records there that may give you more detail, along with census.
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Squire/Thomas/Davies/Gibbons/Mordecai/Bowen/Lewis/Rees/Williams/Jones/Llewellyn/Morgan - Glamorgan
Lewis - Breckonshire
Davies/Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Lloyd/Jones - Denbigh/Salop
Thackwell/Thomas - Hereford/Monmouthshire
Shoemac/Squire/Keirle/Small - Somerset
Berry/Baggot/Lee/Clayton - Lancs
Yelland/Bray/Trethewey - Cornwall
Baggot/Hurley/Keaveny/Shiel/Flynn - Ireland

Offline groom

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Re: Caroline Kinsman born in Carharrack
« Reply #11 on: Monday 30 June 14 10:25 BST (UK) »
Very odd, as far as I can see, there are only 3 John Kinsmans of the right age in Cornwall in 1871 and the one we gave before in Liskard is the only one with a mother Caroline. Your one, does give his POB in 1901 and 1911 as St Day, Cornwall which fits with the Redruth birth.

There are army records of a John William Kinsman, born Gwennap Cornwall, but he was born in 1898. The only other one died in WW1 in 1916.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Cas (stallc)

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Re: Caroline Kinsman born in Carharrack
« Reply #12 on: Monday 30 June 14 10:38 BST (UK) »
Very odd, as far as I can see, there are only 3 John Kinsmans of the right age in Cornwall in 1871 and the one we gave before in Liskard is the only one with a mother Caroline. Your one, does give his POB in 1901 and 1911 as St Day, Cornwall which fits with the Redruth birth.

There are army records of a John William Kinsman, born Gwennap Cornwall, but he was born in 1898. The only other one died in WW1 in 1916.

Strange he is not on military records or census to identify.  Birth cert needed to go back with info. Going fwd, do you have the right 'John Henry' clarified at 68 fathered twins?  Married x2 who was his first and second wife, when, where?

Trying to help, there are many here who would give you info gladly. You need to give all info you know omitting living individuals. Details can be given with them poss PM

Cas
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Squire/Thomas/Davies/Gibbons/Mordecai/Bowen/Lewis/Rees/Williams/Jones/Llewellyn/Morgan - Glamorgan
Lewis - Breckonshire
Davies/Roderick - Myddfai Carms
Lloyd/Jones - Denbigh/Salop
Thackwell/Thomas - Hereford/Monmouthshire
Shoemac/Squire/Keirle/Small - Somerset
Berry/Baggot/Lee/Clayton - Lancs
Yelland/Bray/Trethewey - Cornwall
Baggot/Hurley/Keaveny/Shiel/Flynn - Ireland


Offline selwynfroggitt

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Re: Caroline Kinsman born in Carharrack
« Reply #13 on: Monday 30 June 14 16:00 BST (UK) »
John Henry Kinsman born Dec q 1863 St Day, Cornwall.
1894 Marries Susan Stroud a widow who's husband Frances Charles Danford had died 20 Jan 1888 in Barton Regis... he left over £3000
1901 Lawson Villa, Parkstone, Dorset..retired Army Officer...with his wife Susan Stroud... mother Caroline age 58 with him all living on own means
1911 Heathercliffe, Southborne, Christchurch..boarding house proprieter with his wife Susan.
10 March 1919  John Henry Kinsman Groves born
22 9 1930 Susan dies probate to John Henry Kinsman  (gentleman )
Sep q 1930 John H Kinsman marries Ada Elizabeth Groves  the mother of John Henry Kinsman Groves
Only a week between death of Susan and end of Sep q ??

June q 1932 Twins Alan and Gordon born   both deceased

Dec Q 1937 John Henry Kinsman dies aged 73 in Poole

This is the information sustantiated by family   

Not sure of details but I have been told that Susan was an invalid and that Ada worked at the boarding house.
This is all that is known.
John Henry may have been a retired Army Officer but not seen evidence of service.
Yes I need his birth certificate or either marriage cert to see if his father is named..

Offline osprey

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Re: Caroline Kinsman born in Carharrack
« Reply #14 on: Monday 30 June 14 23:12 BST (UK) »
parish register for his first marriage shows his father as John

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XT9D-5N7

possible marriage for parents
John Kinsman sept qtr 1861 with Caroline Rapson on the same page

1861 Carharrack, Gwennap RG9/1577 folio 90 pg 16
Jane Rapson head 39
William son 17 copper miner
Caroline dau 16
Ann Jones sister mar 48
John Kinsman lodger 24 mason
all born Gwennap

Caroline was baptised 26 Oct 1845, dau of William Emmanuel Rapson, a carpenter, and his wife Jane

But I haven't found them on the census as yet, so this may be coincidence.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline selwynfroggitt

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Re: Caroline Kinsman born in Carharrack
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 03 July 14 09:25 BST (UK) »
Thamks Osprey...
Caroline Rapson does look interesting. I have had a search and found a little about Caroline and although nothing to confirm she is the one I have found nothing to suggest she is not.
The 1861 census looks good and being 24 years old and not in the Army does suggest that he was never an Army Officer...
 I will carry on with this avenue, whatever the result it all helps.

Offline trish1120

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Re: Caroline Kinsman born in Carharrack
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 03 July 14 15:39 BST (UK) »
1871 has a John Kinsman, Occp Mason, is born c 1839 Gwennap
John Kinsman 32
Eth Kinsman 27
John Kinsman 6
Richard Kinsman 3

Marriage;
8 April 1865, Holy Trinity, St Day, Cornwall
John KINSMAN, age 26, Bachelor, Occp Mason, abode St Day, Father SIMON Kinsman, Occp Mason
Elizabeth Jane BARCLE, 2, Spinster, abode Crofthandy (no Father named)
Witnesses, William Kinsman and Caroline Gregor

Baptisms;
Holy Trinity, St Day
WILLIAM JOHN Kinsman, 11 Feb 1866
RICHARD Kinsman, 1 Aug 1868
Parents Jno or John and Elizabeth Jane
Abode Symmons St
Fathers Occp Mason

He stays married to Elizabeth right up til 1901 Census.

Ah, interesting;
Marriage Reg, Sept 1861 Redruth, 5c 442
John KINSMAN and Caroline RAPSON on same page

Trish :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline osprey

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Re: Caroline Kinsman born in Carharrack
« Reply #17 on: Friday 04 July 14 08:50 BST (UK) »
yes, Trish, that's the marriage I was referring to earlier, but I'd forgotten to add the refs. It's a definite marriage as I've found the other 2 people on the page together, the female is Mary Barron Warne & helpfully she uses her middle name after marrying John Phillips.
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb