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Research in Other Countries => South Africa => Topic started by: haywards on Monday 26 May 14 18:36 BST (UK)
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Two brothers who are Northern Irish ancestors of mine, Joseph and James Watson, went to Kimberley on business around 1900. James became an elder at Kimberley Presbyterian Church, and possibly married Edith Christina Hopkins who was born in Kimberley in 1890, before returning to Ireland in 1916. I have no details of the business, but presume it was connected with diamonds. Does anyone recognise any of these details? Any ideas on how I might discover more?
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Where in Ireland were they born?
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Hello. The brothers were born in Keady, County Armagh, of farming stock. Keady was by all accounts a pretty sleepy town in the 19th century, so one thing that puzzles me is how they thought of the idea of travelling so far afield to make their fortune.
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The reason I asked is I found a grave in the Eastern Cape for a James Watson born in Armagh go to this link http://www.eggsa.org/library/main.php?g2_itemId=1328049 and his brother, unfortunately the stone is damaged but can be seen at http://www.eggsa.org/library/main.php?g2_itemId=1914589
Here is the link for the estate papers for James who died in 1951 http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?20140529111308CA079C69&DN=00000004 and his brother Joseph who died in 1921 http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm30ddf0?20140529111611CA079C69&DN=00000030
Regards Derek
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Thanks, Derek, but sadly not my Watsons. We have evidence of both James and Joseph dying in County Armagh in the 1930s. I suppose however that the ones you have found might have been cousins or something (the 19th century Keady Watsons seem to have had plenty of children!). So this might possibly suggest a flurry of County Armagh Watsons trooping across to South Africa around 1900 because of conversations around the family rather than pure coincidence. But that has to be an optimistic guess at the moment.
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By the way, Derek, do you recall which database in the SA Archives you found the estate papers? The links you quoted took me to a timed-out session.
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Pity try this link for the database http://www.national.archsrch.gov.za/sm300cv/smws/sm300dl select the RSA one it will search all the archives.
Regards Derek
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Hi
I have a feeling that I maybe able to add to your query.
First clue- my surname is Watson and I was born in the country near Keady.
Next- I have heard family talk about my fathers uncles/brothers going to Kimberley around the time you mention.
Next and probably the most vital clue is that our farm house was called Kimberley Castle
Can I ask what is your connection
Look forward to your response
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Hi BlueCarlton
Definitely sounds like a link. I'm assuming that you are descended from James Watson (1856 to 1939) because Joseph died childless. Their brother Thomas George (1854 to 1928) was my great grandfather. I now know that James and his wife Edith and their children (Joyce, Kathleen, Beryl, Patricia, Esme, Blanche, Stella and David) sailed to the UK from South Africa in 1916. James settled at Broomhill near Fivemiletown, and that farm passed to David as eldest son (I think a second son Ian was born after 1916) when he died in 1939. My mother remembers staying at Broomhill in the 1930s, and I recall meeting Joyce and Stella at least in 1960. Very interested to know where you fit, not least because I'm visiting Keady with two other great grandchildren of Thomas in a fortnight.
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Hi again
I should have added that James, Thomas and Joseph had another brother who had issue, Robert (1849 to 1946) who could be your ancestor. He was a JP and lived just outside Keady.
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Hi
This definitely confirms the link with your mention of Robert as a JP.
Robert was my grandfather and my father was called Frank.
There are ied to other things that tie in and in particular the house at Broomhill. Coincidentally my sister remembered that my mother had taken her to this house visiting whoever.
As I am doing the family tree I have been unable to go back further than my grandfather. this has filled a big gap in the tree.
All of my aunts and uncles and parents have passed so i am struggling to carry on until now.
In a way we must be related in a roundabout way - I'll work it out .
I live in england and have done for 50 years so it was difficult to get information.
My grandfather Robert was married to a Elizabeth Garmany but here again a brick wall-have you any information.
Speak again
Geoff
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Thanks Geoff. Anything more you can discover (maybe from your siblings) about South Africa would be helpful, or if you could confirm the location of the farm.
As regards tracing your ancestors, if you have Ancestry you can see what we have discovered on this family tree http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/24411283/family which my cousin has posted. You are shown without a name, but some of your siblings are named. We may know more after our forthcoming visit to Ireland.
Hope that helps.
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Hi again
Unfortunately your family tree will not allow me in, as I don't subscribe to that particular site.
The information for RSA is scant because I have no one left that can help.
I keep saying to surviving cousins that the family tree should have been done when uncles and aunts and parents were alive.
My tree contains about 400 relatives but that includes my wifes
Who are you visiting in Keady? The farmhouse that my grandfather built in the circa 1905, and where my father lived all his life, is still their but when my parents died it was decided to sell in 1980s. Coincidentally it was bought by a Watson who lived in the next farm but no relation.
Hope you have a successful trip
Geoff