Author Topic: Marriage Cert - Surname #1 otherwise #2  (Read 5091 times)

Offline Reiver

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
    • View Profile
Marriage Cert - Surname #1 otherwise #2
« on: Wednesday 07 March 07 21:53 GMT (UK) »
I have a certificate for a marriage which took place in London in 1914.

The wife is recorded as Freda Drabble otherwise Lewis.  She was a spinster.  In the place where the 'signatures' appear it also says Freda Drabble otherwise Lewis.

Is there a particular  circumstance where the Registrar would use this form of words for the surname? That is <surname> otherwise <surname>

I did ask at our local Registrar's office but didn't get what I felt was a satisfactory answer.


Reiver

Offline patrish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,816
  • Winter Wonderland
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage Cert - Surname #1 otherwise #2
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 07 March 07 22:03 GMT (UK) »
I am by no means certain but I think it means that although not legally that name, they were known and living under it.  I have this myself on a death certificate and know that to be the case.
this information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk   London Hall, Thurston Stanley, Phillips, Ayrton, White, Morrish, Smith.    West Ham/Barking Saint,Briggs,   Essex  Barker,   Hampshire  Kill, Kent Spong,   U.S.A Earp, Scotland/Cumbria Templeton, Devon Morrish, Chudley

Offline stanmapstone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 25,798
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage Cert - Surname #1 otherwise #2
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 07 March 07 22:30 GMT (UK) »
If either of the Parties has adopted or is commonly known by a Christian Name or Surname other than his or her true Name or Surname both Names or Surnames should be recorded in the Register Book with the word "otherwise" between them. This frequently happens in illegitimate cases, wherein a person has been known through life by his or her putative father's surname. Usually the Maternal Surname appears first then the Paternal Surname with the word "otherwise" between them.
Stan
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline patrish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,816
  • Winter Wonderland
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage Cert - Surname #1 otherwise #2
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 07 March 07 22:39 GMT (UK) »
Yes  Stan, on mine it gives her birth surname then " otherwise  known as" .............
this information is Crown Copyright. from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk   London Hall, Thurston Stanley, Phillips, Ayrton, White, Morrish, Smith.    West Ham/Barking Saint,Briggs,   Essex  Barker,   Hampshire  Kill, Kent Spong,   U.S.A Earp, Scotland/Cumbria Templeton, Devon Morrish, Chudley


Offline Reiver

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage Cert - Surname #1 otherwise #2
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 08 March 07 16:25 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks both of you.

Her father's name is given as Bernard Drabble.  She is 'Freda Drabble otherwise Lewis'.
My guess is her birth name was Freda Lewis.  I should then anticiapte an illegitimate birth of a Freda Lewis.  Subsequently I should anticipate a marriage between a Bernard Drabble and a Miss Lewis.

Is that reasonable?  In that case the father's name is first and the birth name second. 

Thanks again
Reiver

Offline liverpool annie

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 13,434
  • Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage Cert - Surname #1 otherwise #2
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 15 March 07 17:44 GMT (UK) »


Not neccessarily Reiver !

Freda could have been the child of a couple named Lewis ... the father could have died ( maybe Boer War ) and the mother remarried Bernard Drabble ..... and Freda was known as Drabble but her real name was Lewis !!  :-\

Annie  :)
Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407191115/http://manchestersoldiers.webs.com

http://web.archive.org/web/20130807102055/http://www.powv.webs.com/
Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline Reiver

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.natio
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage Cert - Surname #1 otherwise #2
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 15 March 07 18:18 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Annie

Since I posted the query I have been in touch - briefy so far - with a great granddaughter of Freda.
A bit more info has come to light.  Must do a little bit more digging.  But i seem to have been involved in other research just recently  :) :) :) :) :)

Reiver

Offline liverpool annie

  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 13,434
  • Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage Cert - Surname #1 otherwise #2
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 15 March 07 18:27 GMT (UK) »


Never stops does it ??  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Good Luck with the great granddaughter !! let me know if I can help !

Annie  :)

Cooper : Muels : Howarth : Every : Price : King

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407030702/http://www.freewebs.com/liverpoolannie

http://web.archive.org/web/20130407191115/http://manchestersoldiers.webs.com

http://web.archive.org/web/20130807102055/http://www.powv.webs.com/
Be who you are and say what you feel -  because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind ! Dr. Seuss

Erect no gravestone .... let the Rose every year bloom for his sake ! Rilke Sonnets to Orpheus, I

Offline nepenthe

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 2
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Marriage Cert - Surname #1 otherwise #2
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 02 September 14 10:33 BST (UK) »
My problem, similar but different...,

In indentures of 1809 & 1813 buying & selling a small piece of pasture in Notts, and in a Parish Settlement Certificate of 1818, he is shown as, "John Palmer otherwise Worthington".  The 1840 Death Duty Register of his brother Francis Palmer who left him a small legacy, shows relationship as, "bro. but q."  His putative father Henry Palmer married "Elizabeth Worthington" according to Lincs. parish register in 1786.  I can find 5 of their children christenened in the parish register.  I cannot likewise find John.  His age given in the 1851 censuses make his birth about 1784, about 2 yrs before the 1786 marriage, and about 6 years before the first christened child was born, in 1790.  The will of Henry's brother lists all 6 children and gives legacy equally to them.  Henry's will lists all children except John.  In 1811 he is a tenant in a property of Henry Palmer.  The 1841 and 1851 census show "John Palmer", and not, "Palmer otherwise Worthington".  I cannot find his death, apparently in Chesterfield before 1863.

I have looked for a birth of "John Worthington" in likely places.  I have looked for a marriage of an "Elizabeth" to a Worthington, in likely places and years.  Nothing so far.

For years I have guessed what "otherwise", or, "bro. but q." might mean; of course also considering illigitimacy. But do these words give a non-ambiguous meaning of bastardy?  I think I was told once that "q." stood for the Latin, "quo", and that in this phrase it stands as abbreviation of .. something, maybe "quo uterine", which would leave no ambiguity.  But might this language also be used where John is the biological son of Henry, but also a legatee of a Worthington?