Helen from Stirling - married James PRESTON

[Fordyce]

The 1851 census shows my James PRESTON , in Glasgow, married to a Helen age 30 born Stirling. With them was his dau Grace PRESTON age 8 born Haddington. James PRESTON was married before (to Elizabeth OGILVIE from Haddington, ELN) and after (to Marion McQUARRIE from Cumnock, AYR), so who is this Helen from Stirling? Anyone 'missing' a Helen?! This census is the only mention of her - I have no further info on her at all.

Grace PRESTON was James PRESTON's eldest child, born 1843 Haddington.
Hannah PRESTON, my gtgdmother, was born 1853 Glasgow.
She is recorded as being the fourth child, yet there is absolutely no record of the other two who would have been born bet 1843 and 1853. Did they exist and were they children of this mysterious Helen?

Hannah PRESTON's mother is stated in the OPR as being Elizabeth OGILVIE, yet Hannah PRESTON was born after her father's marriage to Marion McQUARRIE, and here we have Helen as a third possibility!

[CaroleW]

Posting full census details for reference purposes

1851

James Preston   32 b Haddington - engineer
Helen  30 b Stirling
Grace 8 b Haddington

1861 - all b Glasgow except where shown

James Preston   41 b Haddington - engine fileter
Marion 34 b Cumnock Ayrshire
Grace 17 b Haddington
Hannah 7
Elizabeth 3
Jemima M 1
Thomas    33 brother b Haddington
Agnes 29 sister in law
Elizabeth 3 niece b England
Marion  11mths niece b England

Have you checked for a death for Elizabeth and a re-marriage to Helen on Scotlands People?

[CaroleW]

I see he has a second christian name here

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTGJ-SVQ

But only one here

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XTTP-8YG

A very short time scale between 1851-1853

[josey]

Fordyce & CaroleW - are your census details from an SP image or a transcription? ADDED: Just wondering if 'Helen' is a mistranscription....

I've looked on SP free index, no death of an Elizabeth or Helen Preston, or marriage of James Preston to a Helen, in Lanarkshire, Stirlingshire or East Lothian 1842 - 1853.

Josey

 

[CaroleW]

Hi Josey

Census details are transcribed from the transcription - not from the image as that is only available on a pay per view basis on SP

I think this is the clincher

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X1S3-MXX

Fordyce - are you certain Elizabeth was b Haddington?

If Hannah was only born September 1853 - how could James have married Marion in March 1853??

[loobylooayr]

Hi,
Have you found Elizabeth Ogilvie on the 1841 Census? I can't find her??
Looby

[Fordyce]

CaroleW

I'll answer your second question first, in one word: indeed!
The OPR is truly inexplicable - evidence is perfectly clear and explicit and flatly contradictory. It is logically impossible to reconcile all the conflicting evidence. I wrote an article for the Glasgow & West of Scotland Fhs Newsletter way back on this "Will the mother of Hannah PRESTON please stand up".

There is no question James PRESTON married Elizabeth OGILVIE & Marion McQUARRIE - death certificate says so explicitly; censuses have children from both marriages in the same family, and so on.

As for your first question, that's not quite so cut and dried. My PRESTONs and various OGILVIEs were Haddington families. My family married, lived and had Grace PRESTON in Haddington. If I presume the Cautioner to their marriage (John OGILVIE) is her father, Elizabeth OGILVIE was born in Dunbar ELN 12 Apr 1821 to John OGILVIE & Elizabeth NEIL (making him the John OGILVIE blacksmith in Haddington whose MI is in St Mary's) - but that MI clearly implies that dau Elizabeth died in infancy. If I presume she was local, Elizabeth OGILVIE was born in Haddington 19 Jan 1823 to Alexander OGILVIE & Margaret EDMOND - and everybody in that family can be accounted for except their dau Elizabeth.

To loobylooayr:

It's odd that Elizabeth OGILVIE cannot be found with certainty in 1841 - the two known ones locally are in Edinburgh (ages 15 and 16, both 'F.S.') both stated as being born in county - namely Midlothian. But with the well-known poor quality of the 1841 census data, who knows?

As I've said, I've now run out of options in every direction other than this Helen age 30 born Stirling!

[loobylooayr]

Certianly a bit of a conundrum, Fordyce

The child Hannah, I assume you have found her death certificate (if she died in Scotland).
Who is recorded as her mother on that? Or her marriage for that matter?

Looby

[loobylooayr]

Hi again,
I've still no clue as to who Helen is on the 1851 Census for the Preston family. But I think for some strange reason Elizabeth Ogilvie's name has been recorded against the birth of Marion McQuarrie's child.
Marion McQuarrie is on the 1841 Census with her family in Straiton in Ayrshire.
John McQuarrie  a farmer aged 40
Mary McQuarrie aged 40
Hannah McQuarrie aged 15
Marion McQuarrie aged 15
James McQuarrie   aged 10
Margaret McQuarrie aged 10
Elizabeth Findlay   aged 3
Stewart Findlay aged 2.
I also think there's a good chance her paternal grandmother was called Hannah. Makes sense she would use the name for a daughter.

Looby