Thomas Gell, Erbistock Gamekeeper

[jamesdon99]

I am seeking help to continue the search for my GELL forebears. My g g g grandfather THOMAS GELL appears on the 1851 census and purports to have been born in Erbistock, Denbigh in about 1792 with his wife Catherine born in the same place in 1791.

 I visited the Erbistock records, and on consulting the records I found the baptisms of his 8 children recorded but no mention of either him or his wife Catherine or any sign of a local marriage.

He was a gamekeeper and he began or continued a long line of gamekeepers who worked on estates country wide but most seemed to eventually gravitate to the Shropshire/Montgomeryshire border area.

The children were Jane Bap 3/6/1821, Thomas Bap 12/1/1823, Francis Beech Bap 26/9/1824, John Bap 6/8/1826, Daniel Bap 3/8/1828, Mary Bap 7/11/1830, Elizabeth Bap 1/12/1833, Frederick Bap 24/4/1836.

I have followed each of these family members forward but I am stuck where to look for a marriage or birth of Thomas. This area is difficult as it is close to the point where Cheshire, Denbighshire and Shropshire meet not forgetting the detached part of Flintshire.

[KGarrad]

Hi William,

Gell/Gill is a known Manx surname, but marriage data only dates from 1849, and baptisms from 1821.
OTOH it isn't an exclusive Manx surname!!

I would more concrete information in order to look up any PR's from before that time?

Cheers,

Kevin

[Gadget]

Hi

This looks like the marriage:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC5T-NKK

Thomas Gill to Catharine Jones 1820

It is most likely to have taken place in Wrexham rather than Brymbo. A lot of such records have this mistake.  I usually check by looking at the vicar/curate and comparing with the clerical database.

You can get the full info and see the image of the parish entry on Find My Past (a pay site. The link to it is on the above link).

Sorry that I can't give the details - it's against FindMyPast's Terms & Conditions


Gadget

[wrjones]

You did very well finding the marriage Gadget!I searched across about six counties!

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[Gadget]

I can't find his birth yet - and I've got the Erbistock booklet - wonder if he was non-c 



Gadget

[jamesdon99]

Gadget

Thanks for your efforts so far.

I have seen the Gill Jones marriage before but discounted it as the census gave them both being born in Erbistock.

As to them being Non Conformists I think that is unlikely as they worked on large estates with Thomas eventually working on the estate of Powis Castle and died in Forden, Montgomeryshire.

Each generation always has a Francis Beech Gell and there are several in different branches of the family who carry this name.

As they gravitate to Welshpool/Forden I have spent a lot of time looking at records around that area in England and Wales. I have found a Francis Gell in Worthen, Shropshire but have not been able to connect him to Thomas although Francis is a male family name. This Francis is a witness to a marriage in Worthen on 4th May 1807 between Evan Thomas & Catherine Gell.

Any help much appreciated

[Gadget]

Hi James

Have you seen the actual marriage entry in the parish records?

If not, it's worth going on to FindMyPast and viewing it. or get to a records office if you're in the vicinity.


Gadget

[Gadget]

RE Thomas's death in Forden~

Do you have the ref to it as I have Catherine in Erbistock in 1861 as a widow -

RG9/4280/3/5
Twinning Bank, Erbistock
Cathrine Gill, head, w (idow), 70, keeper's wife, b. Denbigh, Denbighshire
Elizabeth, dau, unm, 26, dressmaker, b. Erbistock, Denbighshire


I see Francis in Forden on later censuses.


Gadget

[jamesdon99]

Hi Gadget

Thanks for the wedding info especially the Gamekeeper aspect. Until I started with the Gells I did not realise that rural people moved about so much as by 1890 two of Thomas's grandchildren are keepers on estates in Dover and Fareham, Hampshire.

I was in Welshpool library couple of weeks ago and checked all the Erbistock records again as they are on Find my Past. Didn't look at the marriage as didn't know where it was but will look next time.

Duff info regarding Forden as that is where his son died and I have a copy of the probate of his son Francis's will.

I do have Thomas in Erbistock in 1851 with Catherine and three children Daniel, Elizabeth and Frederick. Also I knew Catherine was a widow in 1861. Francis my gg grandfather married Mary Davies from Pulford in Wrexam, St Giles on 22 May 1852 and by 1861 he is a gamekeeper at Stockton, Welshpool.

Again the drift back to the Mont/Shrop border.

I will be a bit more open about the Gill spelling in future but even using this can't find death of Thomas which must have occurred in the 1860s

James