A ship for Capt. Ralph Hindmarsh 1800 - 1830

[ejowynne]

I had seen the patent before but not a German version!  Now I've just found out through  another great helper that Capt Ralph was declared bankrupt 1827.  He must have sunk any money into the patent, maybe it failed. ?? I see there is always more to find. what a treasure hunt.
Thanks again for all your invaluable help  Jo

[ejowynne]

A bonus to get an address. i am now off to see if there is an Albion Place in Newcastle.

Albion Place no longer exists as an address. It is now called Leazes Park Road.

Go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html?coords=424529,564619 and then click on the 1861-1862 town plan thumbnail on the right - Albion Place shows up very nicely on that.

I wonder if JenB or another expert can help me with another address. From the 'convenient ' houses of Albion Place, Newcastle following his bankruptcy I next find Capt. Hindmarsh in Dean St. Shadwell, London, his address when he petitioned for an almshouse. I have found a Dean St. - a short street, 2 streets back from the Thames on an old map and as far as I can tell it was where the King Edward Memorial Park is now but I haven't found any proof of that and I would like to be sure also any other information about Dean St. I was lead astray reading about Dean and Flower St. but that was more Whitechapel 

[Westoe]

Hello Jo,

I saw your recent post on The Mariner's List about your visit to London, and I do thank you for your kind words about me, but (smile) you left so much unsaid. Was the house still standing? Did you meet Basil, the ginger tom? Did you go to Shadwell too?

If you want help deciphering the list of ships in the document, do you have images? Mariners doesn't allow attachments to messsages, but they do have a bulletin board, where you can upload images, then post a link to the list and we can all take a look.
http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/

I've never personally seen a Trinity House Petition so I would look at it even if we hadn't already been corresponding.

Cheers,
Westoe

[ejowynne]

Hello Westoe
I understand that the houses behind the chapel at Trinity Green/House were the same as those in front so although number 56 was behind and these are no longer there ( some were bombed during the war) I was quite satisfied to see the front ones and get my own personal photos . it is just as idyllic as pictured in  ' Spitalfields - a renovation at Trinity Green ' with the ships on the roof and the plaque referring to the 'decayed'  mariners -I understand this means no money  -quite an oasis in a busy commercial area. I met a couple of two legged residents but not Basil!
I didn't go to Shadwell. My eldest grandson was born at Whitechapel 18 years ago and I spent several summers around Shadwell and East London at that time and have a good feel for the docks and area where Dean St. was. -unfortunately  I was not interested in family history then  and that family now live in NZ.
My time in London was limited but I am pleased with the amount of family history I managed along with all the theatre that the friend I stayed with had booked. Trinity House and the petition were the success stories. I did get to the National Archives at Kew ( I now have readers cards for LMA< Kew and the Mitchell library in Sydney so feel quite the researcher)  and checked the files you suggested - not ALL the volumes! but could not find the info I was after  - there is a deafening silence from the Mariners about finding the names of the seven transport ships and their masters on the voyage taking Napoleon's cavalry etc. from Savona to Elba so not an easy question. I have followed your advice and at present am doing some reading - a book  ' Napolepon in Exile: Elba'  by Norwood Young is available as a free ebook and I am noting footnotes  and references. It describes Napoleon's delight at the transports and the skilful British sailors - there were no horses or men lost and nothing damaged. BUT no names. I am sure it will come to light sometime and I will just follow any likely source. My friend lives just a couple of stops from Kew and became interested in my search. She is willing to go and look if I get anymore likely leads.
I loved Northumberland which is quite wild and reminds me so much of my birthplace on the West coats of New Zealand. Lots of good family history finds . All the recorded street names where ancestors lived in Alnwick, Newcastle and Belford their memorial plaques on church floors and walls, tombs and stones in cemeteries.Contact with Hidden Histories in Belford unearthed lots of treasures. Capt. Ralph Hindmarsh's wife Sarah Scot came from near there and one of his sons William Septimus Hindmarsh retired there to become the postmaster after being a Master mariner. I already knew a bit about some of his history especially when he was master of the Tryphena and my great grandfather went with him from Australia to England  as a 10 year old boy to stay at Trinity Green for 6 years. The Belford H.H. have come up with old newspaper reports of later marine exploits and another ship's name so later I will see if the Mariners have more on that.
When you suggested images I thought for a moment you were looking for sketches of the ships!! then realised it was the petition. I have scanned it and when I came to put it on the gallery it wouldn't let me log on and even when I clicked forgotten password it wouldn't recognise my email address. When I have worked this out I will put the pages relevant mariner pages on .
Great to hear from you Westoe. I have printed out all your advice and refer to it. Is it a heatwave in the depths of Canada?
Cheers Jo

[Westoe]

..... - there is a deafening silence from the Mariners about finding the names of the seven transport ships and their masters on the voyage taking Napoleon's cavalry etc. from Savona to Elba so not an easy question. I have followed your advice and at present am doing some reading - a book  ' Napolepon in Exile: Elba'  by Norwood Young is available as a free ebook and I am noting footnotes  and references. It describes Napoleon's delight at the transports and the skilful British sailors - there were no horses or men lost and nothing damaged. BUT no names. I am sure it will come to light sometime and I will just follow any likely source. .....

When you suggested images I thought for a moment you were looking for sketches of the ships!! then realised it was the petition. I have scanned it and when I came to put it on the gallery it wouldn't let me log on and even when I clicked forgotten password it wouldn't recognise my email address. When I have worked this out I will put the pages relevant mariner pages on . .....

Hello Jo,

Well .... erm .... the deafening silence probably doesn't indicate indifference, but simply that no members have that specific knowledge. It may be that you have to try again on a more precisely focussed forum. I'm sure that there are several groups and forums dealing with Napoleon-in-exile.

Here are a couple of possibles to get you started:

http://www.napoleonguide.com/napsoc_forum.htm

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?177115-Napoleon-returns-to-Elba-200-years-on

If you have trouble posting the images, you could always email them direct to the list administrator and ask him to post them for you.

Cheers,
Westoe

[hanes teulu]

Have you seen "The American Historical Review Vol55  No1  Oct 1949

www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1841084?uid=3738032&uid=2&uid=4&sid=21104400906767

[hanes teulu]

The Newcastle Courant has 2 references under Shipping News/Intelligence to a Hindmarsh sailing out of Newcastle

May 29, 1819
"Lord Nelson, Hindmarsh, from Newcastle, at Havre"

Oct 10, 1829
"Peterhead, September 29th - The Fraser, Hindmarsh, from Newcastle, went to pieces last night......"
Was destined for Liverpool

[ejowynne]

Many thanks Westoe and Hanes Teulu.
Coming from the  Napoleon history angle is one way to get the names and masters of the merchant transports from Savona to Elba and I will keep looking. A vast amount has been written about Napoleon  and I am thinking that another less cluttered  path would be if someone has made a study of the role of  Merchant ships during the Napoleonic wars so I will be looking for that also. The Mariners have been fantastic with the help they have given and continue to give so no criticism intended about the silence - I totally understand that it is just that no-one knows.
 
I guess that the 1819 ref. is Capt. Ralph Hindmarsh but the 1829,  if this family, would be James or William Septimus - two of Ralph's sons who were master mariners.  the Lord Nelson and The Fraser are new names to investigate.  ' went to pieces ' sounds dire  - does it give more detail. 

[hanes teulu]

Earlier this year the island celebrated the 200th anniversary of Napoleon's landing -
www.napoleoneimperatoreelba2014.it/en/napoleon-and-the-island-of-elba/

It mentions the source as the "Records of the Municipality of Portoferraio from 1813 to 13 Dec 1815". Wondered if those records might include any info on ships that accompanied Napoleon aboard the "Indomitable".

He was conveyed there aboard H.M.S. Undaunted.. In his "NARRATIVE OF EVENTS connected with THE FIRST ABDICATION of the EMPOROR NAPOLEON - His embarkation at Frejus and voyage to Elba - On board His Majesty's ship Undaunted" (google books), Captain Thomas Usher, R.N., K.C.H.C.B mentions 11 ships accompanying the Undaunted.