Cornish Mystery

[Valda]

Jap
my pot shot at explaining Emma Barton/Slack is that she would be an illegitimate child of Ann Slack/Smith who was not married to Joseph Burton/Barton and as far as I can tell didn't marry him. I think this is Ann's marriage (she got around to it in the end)

Marriages Dec 1870
Bassett  Francis    Truro  5c 273   
SMITH  Ann     Truro  5c 273

1871 census RG10 2283 folio 64
Back Lane Kenwyn  Cornwall   
Franas Bassett 28 Helston, Cornwall,  Head  Married Butcher
Ann Bassett 28  Truro, Cornwall, Wife  Married
Annie Bassett 7 Truro, Cornwall, Daughter 

I imagine still to find is a Slack Bassett birth registration for daughter Annie to go with her brother's birth and death registration.

Births Mar 1867
SLACK  William Francis B     Truro  5c 169 
Deaths Sep 1870
Slack  Francis Bassett  3  Truro  5c 110
same quarter as Emma's death registration
Slack  Emma Burton  8  Truro  5c 110 

We still await the marriage certificate details for George Slack and Amelia Knortton before we can do much more, unless an enquiry to Cornwall Record Office will elicit any further information about George Slack. That may well be worth trying as well.

Regards

Valda

[deb usa]

hi Guys
thanks so much for still taking an interest in my story. I have received the marriage cert..it states....that GEORGE SLACK married AMELIA KNORTTON ON 13 JANUARY 1842in Truro at the registry office. He was 36 and she 25, his occupation is stated as being a coachmaker. At the time of marriage they were living in calenick street , Kenwyn. Georges father was called WILLIAM SLACK (ALSO A COACH MAKER )  and Amelia's dad was CHARLES KNORTTON (a tanner by trade).
  George signed the marriage cert...she marked hers with an X.  This is obviously where the surname mistake all began...i am assuming that the official wrote her name down how it was pronounced. Also with the strong cornish accent i  assume it surname could be anything ...ie:knaughton, knerton etc.
i did just want to say that whilst going through Cornwall Online Census Project , i did find an AMELIA CARNARTON , aged 24 (1841 census)....she was living with her grandmother Mary Carnarton (aged 70).Amelia was born in Falmouth in 1816...so that would make this girls age correct...also i believe she was a labourer,,,,hence lack of education.
what do you think of this info.
the marriage cert only helped in finding their father's names and not the surname mystery.
i hope to hear from you all soon and thanks once again for taking the time to respond.
regards
Deb

[fizzybubble]

Yep. Loads and loads of Carnarton in Cornwall according to familyhistoryonline.

It is easy now to see where the Knortton came from as the "car" bit would be pronounced as "c", making it Cnarton. Brilliant piece of detective work.

As for the alias who knows. One branch of the Mutton family changed their name to Mytton. At first I thought it may be the Registrar but this spread across several reg districts.

Fizzy

[Valda]

Part 1
I've only had a go at examining the possibilty that the 1841 census Amelia Carnarton could be the Amelia who married George Slack.

The 1841 census doesn't tell you that Amelia was born in Falmouth. What the 1841 census does tell you (and this is often a bit unreliable but I think in this case will be reliable) is yes or no born in the county. So what the 1841 census says is only that Amelia was born in the county of Cornwall.
The 1841 census also doesn't give relationships. Making assumptions is a very dangerous activity in genealogy. Mary Carnarton may or may not be this Amelia's grandmother. The best you can say is she is a good candidate for this Amelia's grandmother if the age is right (indexed or enumerator correctly in the first place - you can't see the actual census page itself only someone's transcript and the 1841 census is often not easy to read).
Adult ages on the 1841 census (anyone over 15) are rounded to 5 usually down so Amelia could be anywhere between 25 and 30 and Mary 75 to 70 - though sometimes they get rounded up - ages in 1841 are a bit more fluid.

Carnarton seems to be a local surname (place name) to the area so even someone who can't sign their name (and you often find sometimes they can and sometimes they can't - stress and the big event for someone who rarely writes anything and hasn't since Sunday school may cause them to go for the cross as the easier option - it also doesn't mean they can't read) and has a broad Cornish accent should still have been understood by the registrar (but then it is a rare surname). If it was Carnarton the Truro registrar managed to get these others correct.

FreeBMD (incomplete index of the civil registration) Truro registration district including other areas besides Falmouth and Kenwyn.

Births Sep 1837
CARNARTON  Female    Truro  9 212  
Births Mar 1840
Carnarton  Female     Truro  9 368  
Births Sep 1843
CARNARTON  Robert     Truro  9 324  

Marriages Sep 1850
CARNARTON  Mary Ann     Truro  9 341

Deaths Mar 1842
CARNARTON  Mary Jane     Truro  9 212  
Deaths Jun 1842
CARNARTON  Amelia     Truro  9 245  
Deaths Sep 1846
Carnarton  Charles     Truro  9 179  
Deaths Mar 1848
Carnarton  William     Truro  9 247  

Still everybody has an off day even a registrar, and if his off days were as bad as your Amelia's marriage I wouldn't necessarily spot the very creative attempt at spelling the surname.
It is some way from Carnarton to Knorrton.

Unfortunately the national burial index has coverage of Cornish parishes between 1813-1837 so the only age on burial I know of these Carnartons is Mary Jane who was 4.

Regards

Valda

[Valda]

Part 2
However there is this website

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Cornwall/Kenwyn/Burials.html

Kenwyn Parish Registers - Some Burials

the only Carnarton found there is

p. 146 No. 1164 (numbers jump 100 numbers for some reason) MARY CARNARTON(CARNASTON?), Calenick Street, 5 March 1858, 57, G. L. Woolcombe(?), Curate

I'm presuming the 57 is her age on burial.

This woman seems the only candidate on the 1851 census unless anyone can find a better one. She doesn't fit the woman with Amelia in 1841.

1851 census HO107 1910 folio 209
High Cross Truro St Mary  Cornwall   
Mary Carnarton 51  Kenwyn, Cornwall,  Lodger  Married warehousewoman
Thomas Carnarton 21  Kenwyn, Cornwall,  Son  Mason's labourer
Emily Carnarton 10  Kenwyn, Cornwall, Daughter 
Robert? Carnarton 7 Kenwyn, Cornwall,  Son 

I think this is probably that Mary on the 1841 census

Piece: HO107/147/14 Place: Powder-Cornwall Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: Kenwyn Truro Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 60 Page: 7
Address: Charles Street
Surname   First name(s)   Sex   Age   Occupation   Where Born   
CARNARTON   Mary   F   40   Lab.    Cornwall         
CARNARTON   Charles   M   15   Apprentice    Cornwall         
CARNARTON   William   M   13       Cornwall         
CARNARTON   Thomas   M   12       Cornwall         
CARNARTON   Henry   M   6       Cornwall         
CARNARTON   Mary   F   4       Cornwall         
CARNARTON   Emily   F   1       Cornwall 

I had a quick stroll down Calenick Street in Kenwyn either side of the Slack family and other than William Carnarton the bone collector born Truro and lodging, there wasn't much else of interest in 1851.

On the 1841 census  Amelia Carnarton was living in Calenick Street.

http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

I cannot find an Amelia Carnarton baptism on the IGI. My Phillimores Atlas of parish registers says Falmouth and Kenwyn parish registers are fully covered on the IGI but not Kenwyn detached and of course I don't know so much about non-conformist registers.

These are the Kenwyn baptisms for children of a Charles and Mary Carnarton (IGI coverage 1813-1859) - could be a different Charles (you can bet even with a very rare surname - the 1851 census only picks up around 15 possibilities in Cornwall, none in 1861 and 2 in 1871 - they are all in the same place with the same names at the same times) - these baptisms might relate to the Mary found on both the 1841 and 1851 censuses.

CHARLES CARNARTON
Christening: 07 JAN 1827 Kenwyn, Cornwall,
 
HENRY PERRO CARNARTON
Christening: 25 DEC 1835 Kenwyn, Cornwall
 
MARY JANE CARNARTON
Christening: 25 DEC 1837 Kenwyn, Cornwall,

plus these three

WILLIAM CARNARTON
Christening: 01 SEP 1833 Constantine, Cornwall
 
MARY CARNARTON
Christening: 01 SEP 1833 Constantine, Cornwall
 
THOMAS CARNARTON
Christening: 01 SEP 1833 Constantine, Cornwall

No marriages of anyone in the name Carnarton 20 years either side of 1820 in Cornwall on the IGI. As Kerwyn is to the north and East of Falmouth, Constantine is to the west.

You could try the indexes of the Cornwall family History Society.

http://www.cornwallfhs.com/other/transcription_progress.htm

There is at least one member of the society expressing an interest in all Carnartons and if they have researched the surname that might be an easy way to say whether this is a possibility for Amelia's surname or not.

You also have that possibility of Amelia Carnarton's death registration in 1842 to contend with - especially since at this point only one has been found (still could be a child born and died after the 1841 census and the census index itself is incomplete at present).

All of this should give a start for JAP and something to get her teeth into on the next shift. I look forward to reading what she says. I've not come to any conclusions on this. I'd like to see what JAP thinks.

Regards

Valda

[JAP]

Well Deb ...   I really do like the name CARNARTON - it seems eminently possible for KNORRTON.  But not, of course, yet proven.

Building on all the great information which Valda provided above, I had a look at that Kenwyn batch with children of a Charles CARNARTON and Mary - and just searched for children of a Charles (no surname) and a Mary.  And, would you believe:
Amelia COUNACKAN, parents Charles COUNACKAN and Mary, bap 3 Oct 1824, Kenwyn Cornwall.
(This is the only occurrence of 'COUNACKAN' in the whole of the British Isles IGI so it seems very likely that it is a spelling or transcription error for CARNARTON).
I wonder whether Charles's occupation is given in the actual parish register(s) - both Kenwyn and Constantine ...

So we've now got the baptism of an Amelia BUT, if this Amelia was baptized soon after her birth she would be too young for the Amelia who married George SLACK/SMITH (that Amelia's birthdate is consistently given as ca 1816) and similarly too young for the Amelia (24) in the 1841 census.  However, she might have been baptized as a child of 7 or 8 I guess.

But who is the Amelia CARNARTON who died in 1842?  That is a worry!

Incidentally, a Mary Jane CARNARTON died in 1842 - perhaps 70yo Mary of the 1841?

The following site:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~peterpjw/Carnarthen.html
lists some spellings of the name.  It refers in passing to CARNARTON in Kenwyn in the 1881.

By the way, Deb, who were the witnesses at the marriage?

JAP

[deb usa]

hi Valda and JAP
I must admit that i am more confused than ever...I am also amazed at you searching skills !!!!! Give me time and i might catch up LOL.
I am in a rush to go to doctors this morning so i am just adding a quick bit of info.... ie: the witnesses to the marriage:
they were ...W.Robert Penrose and Christopher matthews. Another bit of info on marriage cert states the marriage took place in the district of Truro Union ...is this another district of Truro???
 thanks again
will bbs
deb

[Valda]

Part 1
Great find JAP but it still doesn't push me over the edge to Amelia Carnarton. I still have the problem with the age of Amelia (which I can confirm) and that death registration for Amelia Carnarton in 1842 (Mary Jane was 4 buried Kenwyn, so we also have the missing grandmother? death - if her age and name were correct on the 1841 census). It would seem Mary on the 1841 and 1851 census would be the Mary (possibly Duff) wife of Charles and mother of an Amelia born in 1824 -  but still too young for an Amelia born consistently circa 1817. A Charles Carnarton marries on the Cornish marriage index in 1823.

From the A2A website

Cornwall Quarter Sessions, c 1350-1970
Quarter Sessions Order Books - ref. QS/1
FILE - Quarter Sessions Order Book - ref.  QS/1/8  - date: Jan 1812-Apr 1817
item: Sessions held at Truro - ref.  QS/1/8/626-678  - date: 15th April 1817
Appeal by Falmouth against order of 5 Apr. inst. for removal of Mary Carnarton, singlewoman, from Kenwyn: held over.

Cornwall Quarter Sessions, c 1350-1970
Quarter Sessions Order Books - ref. QS/1
FILE - Quarter Sessions Order Book - ref.  QS/1/9  - date: July 1817-Oct 1819
item: Sessions held at Bodmin - ref.  QS/1/9/40-78  - date: 14th October 1817
Continued appeal by Falmouth against order of 5 Apr. last for removal of Mary Carnarton, singlewoman from Kenwyn: order confirmed. Falmouth to pay Kenwyn £5 costs.

FILE - Quarter Sessions Order Book - ref.  QS/1/10  - date: Jan 1820-Jan 1825
item: Sessions held at Bodmin - ref.  QS/1/10/347-372  - date: 15 October 1822
Application by Kenwyn concerning female bastard born at Kenwyn 5 Aug. last, dau. of Mary Duff of Kenwyn, singlewoman. Charles Carnarton jun. of Kenwyn, alleged father.

Cornwall Quarter Sessions, c 1350-1970
Quarter Sessions Order Books - ref. QS/1
FILE - Quarter Sessions Order Book - ref.  QS/1/11  - date: April 1825-Jan 1831
item: Sessions held at Bodmin - ref.  QS/1/11/370-397  - date: 15 July 1828
Appeal by Constantine against order of 12 April last, for removal of Mary, wife of Charles Carnarton, and their children Elizabeth (4), Amelia (3), Charles (1 year and 9 months) and unbaptised son, from Kenwyn: held over.

Though it doesn't say it, the main reason for a Mary Carnarton removal in 1817 would be if she was pregnant, so this record keeps me going on Carnarton leaving the possibility of an illegitimate Carnarton birth with the face saving 'uncle' Charles the tanner on the marriage certificate.
However for this to work I would need two Amelia Carnartons and we've strained enough to find one. But we would have to have two because there is the death of Amelia Carnarton to explain in 1842 - it doesn't go away (roll on a full index of the 1841 census) and another Amelia Carnarton aged about 16 working away from home as a servant. I've still no idea on a Mary? death though between 1841-1851.

So does the IGI supply a Charles Carnarton of the right age to 'marry' a Mary Duff born circa 1800 whose father must be called Charles (he's called junior on quarter sessions record) with even better an older sister called Mary.

Not quite

ELIZABETH CARNARTEN
Christening: 23 JUN 1793 Helston, Cornwall
MARGERY CARNARTON
Christening: 24 JAN 1796 Helston, Cornwall
CHARITY CARNARTON
Christening: 18 FEB 1798 Helston, Cornwall
CHARLES CARNARTON
Christening: 23 MAR 1800 Helston, Cornwall
CHRISTIAN CARNARTON
Christening: 01 MAY 1807 Helston, Cornwall
ANN CARNARTON
Christening: 31 DEC 1809 Helston, Cornwall

and sadly other than Mary Jane, Carnartons don't get buried on the national Burial index (coverage in Cornwall seems very good/possibly blanket of Anglican parishes 1813-1837).

There is however a possible Margery Carnarton a pauper on the 1851 census aged 86 who could be born Helston staying with her niece in Truro. Is she the Mary of the 1841 census??

Regards

Valda

[Valda]

Part 2
If you register with

http://www.familyhistoryonline.net/

which is where family history societies are putting further records (the Federation of Family History Societies website). You can look for free at the index for Carnarton of Cornish records placed there by the Cornwall FHS - burials, baptisms and censuses - which is how I know a Charles Carnarton married in Cornwall in 1823 (not on the IGI). If you pay a nominal fee you can see the outline of the actual record (the sort of detail you get on the IGI).

If Margery Carnartons will move conveniently to Mary Carnartons life would be simpler. There is on the Cornwall marriage index a marriage of a Margery Carnarton in 1827.

Parish Kenwyn Thomas EMIDY Date 16 Aug 1827 Wife Margery CARNARTON

Now this is where it starts to get very very interesting. Emidy is surprise surprise an exceedingly rare surname.

1841 census HO107/147/14 Place: Powder-Cornwall Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: Kenwyn Truro Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 60 Page: 7
Charles Street
EMIDY   Thomas   M   35   Musician    Cornwall         
EMIDY   Margery   F   40       Cornwall         
Page: 61/8   EMIDY   Cecelia   F   13       Cornwall         
EMIDY   Francis   M   10       Cornwall         
EMIDY   Eliza   F   7       Cornwall         
EMIDY   Joseph   M   6       Cornwall         
EMIDY   Richard   M   4       Cornwall         
EMIDY   James   M   2       Cornwall         
FRANKLING   Thomas   M   20   Shoemaker    Cornwall 

1851 census HO107 1910 folio 333
Charles Street Kenwyn  Cornwall   
Thomas Emidy 45 Falmouth, Cornwall,  Head  Married Musician
Margarey Emidy 50  Helstone, Cornwall, Wife Married
Eliza Emidy 18  Truro, Cornwall, Daughter Dressmaker
Joseph Emidy 16 Truro, Cornwall,  Son  Musician
Richard Emidy 13  Truro, Cornwall, Son Musician
James Emidy 12  Truro, Cornwall, Son 
Julia Emidy 5  Truro, Cornwall,  Granddaughter 

1861 census RG9 1559 folio 47
Charles Street Kenwyn  Cornwall   
Thomas Emidy 55  Falmouth, Cornwall, Head Married Musician
Margery Emidy 65  Helston, Cornwall,  Wife  Married

From the IGI
THOMAS HUTCHINS EMIDY 
Birth:  06 JUL 1805   
Christening:  08 DEC 1805   Falmouth, Cornwall
Father:  JOSEPH EMIDY
Mother:  JENIFER 

I think it is at this point you really want to prove the Carnarton connection some how. Go to

http://www.jonroseweb.com/f_projects_emidy.html

I think you are really going to find it very very interesting!!!!!!!

Regards

Valda