Author Topic: Ann MORAN (MOORAN) and the Late Rebellion  (Read 14515 times)

Offline ajf25

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Ann MORAN (MOORAN) and the Late Rebellion
« on: Monday 15 August 11 00:01 BST (UK) »
Hi all,

Ann Moran (also spelt Anne Mooran) was born in Ireland about 1767, was convicted in Trim, Co. Meath during 1797 for political activities, held in custody for almost five years and then sentenced to seven years transportation to Australia.  On 29 Nov 1801,  she departed from the port of Cork,  arriving in Sydney, on 26 June 1802 on board the Hercules, along with other prisoners from the "Late Rebellion".  She was one of the first one hundred Irish women convicts to come to Australia.

Her time in Australia is fairly well documented, so what I'm interested in is anything about her time in Ireland.

This is an extreme longshot I know.

Cheers,
Alison  :D

Offline Monaro1

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Re: Ann MORAN (MOORAN) and the Late Rebellion
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 05 September 12 00:44 BST (UK) »
Dear Alison
I am a 3rd great grandson of Ann Moran and I am also complying information about her life before her transportation to Australia.

I thought your post suggested that you had some firm information about her trial and conviction.  However, others, especially Peter Mayberry (see: http://members.pcug.org.au/~ppmay/cgi-bin/irish/irish.cgi), have published information that is inconsistent with yours.  Mayberry says that Ann was convicted in Trim in Co. Meath in 1797 and transported for life . But, unlike you, he does not say what her offence was.

During a visit to Ireland last year, I revisited Trim and spoke with the Clerk of the Court.  To my surprise, he showed me Court Room 1, which is almost exactly as it was in 1797, even to the timber Judge's Bench, the barristers' and solicitors' desks, the dock and the jury box.  The rest of the Court House was renovated a few years ago but this court room was kept intact.

I should be grateful if you could let me know the sources for your information.  I would be happy to give you copies of photographs in exchange for anything you can give me.

regards

Paul

Offline ajf25

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Re: Ann MORAN (MOORAN) and the Late Rebellion
« Reply #2 on: Friday 07 September 12 00:53 BST (UK) »
Hi Paul,

Welcome to RootsChat.

Ann is my husband's gggg grandmother.

I found Ann very early in my family history search and unfortunately hadn't realised the importance at that stage of recording references.  I'm pretty sure is was from a document (as in official), as I wouldn't have recorded it on heresay, but I haven't kept a copy.  At that stage I had a subscription to Ancestry so I imagine that's where I found it.

Regarding her sentence, your post has made me do a bit of checking.  In the 1825 muster, it has her sentence as 7 years.  I have a downloaded copy of the ship's muster, and have just checked it out using a hand lens and it does say life, so I'll correct my record.  It doesn't say what her offence is though.

I'd love copies of your photos. I'll send you a PM (personal message) with my email address.  You won't be able to use the PM system until you have 3 posts, but you should be able to receive them.

Cheers,
Alison  :)








Offline Monaro1

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Re: Ann MORAN (MOORAN) and the Late Rebellion
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 08 September 12 01:36 BST (UK) »
Dear Alison

I am glad I helped you to clarify the sentence Ann Moran received at her trial.

Since your husband is her 4th great grandson, I assume he is also the 4th great grandson of John Curits.  If so, you might be interested in some of the information I have about John before his conviction and transportation.

Incidentally, you might be interested to know that in Ann's marriage certificate from 1814 to John in St John's Anglican Church, Parramatta her name is spelt as "Mooren".

Thank you for your advice about restrictions on using personal email addresses.  I'll send a few messages with bits and pieces of information until I meet the requirements.

regards

Paul


Offline ajf25

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Re: Ann MORAN (MOORAN) and the Late Rebellion
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 08 September 12 23:28 BST (UK) »
Hi Paul,

I'd love any information you have on John Curtis.  He seems to have been an interesting fellow.  There is a bit online about him, including maps of where his original land was.  Have you seen this?  Just google John Curtis, Ann Moran and it should come up.

I found my original handwritten notes this morning (I just hadn't recorded the reference in my software program) and the information I have is from Ancestry - Australian Convict Transportation Registers (Other Fleets & Ships 1791-1868).

Cheers,
Alison  ;D

Offline Greg McGrath

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Re: Ann MORAN (MOORAN) and the Late Rebellion
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 17 May 14 00:35 BST (UK) »
Hi Allison and Paul
I am also a g,g,g grandson of John Curtis and Ann Moran via their daughter Catherine who married George Eccleston. I am just beginning to research both Ann and John and would love to obtain as much information as possible about them. Can either of you help please? Also, if there are any documents, photos etc I would love copies. I look forward to your replies.
Regards
Greg

Offline ajf25

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Re: Ann MORAN (MOORAN) and the Late Rebellion
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 20 May 14 03:48 BST (UK) »
I am also a g,g,g grandson of John Curtis and Ann Moran via their daughter Catherine who married George Eccleston.
Hi Greg,
Welcome to Rootschat.

My husband, John is a descendant of the same line.  Catherine and George's son, David Joseph married Sarah Jane Dunn.  They had a daughter Alice Mary, who was my hubby's g.grandmother.
Which child of Catherine and George are you descended from?

I'm happy to give you what I have of the family tree, but I will do it through email.  You cannot put up email addresses in the public forum, only via the personal message system.  However, to access that, you will need to make 2 more posts. 

Cheers,
Alison  :)

Offline Greg McGrath

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Re: Ann MORAN (MOORAN) and the Late Rebellion
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 20 May 14 06:31 BST (UK) »
Alison
George Eccleston and Catherine (Kitty) Curtis were the parents of Mary Jane Reid (Eccleston) who was the mother of my maternal grandmother Cecily May Welch (Reid).

I guess this is one post and I have one to go??
Regards
Greg McGrath

Offline Monaro1

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Re: Ann MORAN (MOORAN) and the Late Rebellion
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 21 May 14 12:26 BST (UK) »
Hello again Alison and welcome Greg
I am sure that there must be any hundreds of descendants of John Curtis and Ann Moran now living in Australia or, like my son and his family, back in the British Isles.  It would be interesting to run a census of their descendants.
My descent from George Eccleston and Catherine Curtis is through their son, John William Henry, who died in Crookwell on 18 May 1918.  He married Catherine Mary McIntyre who died in Crookwell in 1916 about 6 months before their son, Albert Ambrose, died at the Second Australian Casualty Clearing Station at Steenwerk in northern France.
Last year, my wife and I attended a conference at Trim in Co Meath for those with Meath roots and visited Albert Ambrose's grave at the Trois Arbres War Cemetery which was set up by the 2nd ACCS.  It was a great conference and trip and I managed to find a little time to do some research at the National Library of Ireland.
I found a report in the Dublin Evening Post summoning the jury for the Summer Assizes at Trim and giving the names of the 2 judges who would sit.  I also found a report of the trial of a Thomas Treacey on 8 September 1797 for insurrection.  I ran out of time to look for reports of Ann Moran's trial which must have been on the same day (the Assizes were held only one day) but I suspect she might have been related to Treacey in some way.  Despite her being 30 or 35 on arrival in Sydney, it is unlikely she was his wife because all the records for her seem to have been in the name of Moran or a variant.  However, it is quite possible she was his sister or other relative or a friend and that she was tried for something she did such as trying to protect him from the authorities.  Otherwise, it is hard to explain why she was transported for life.
If you have not discovered the fact yet, Greg, a Muster in the 1820s stated that Ann was transported for 7 years.  However, the 1802 Muster when she arrived in the Colony stated that she had been transported for life. The 1802 Muster is almost certainly correct and a number of the more reputable researchers rely on it for the longer sentence, rejecting the shorter sentence.
In Trim last year, we got into the offices of the Education Department.  One wall was a wall of the gaol where Ann would have been held, possibly for a long time during the 5 years between her conviction and shipment from Port of Cork in 1801. Some graffiti scratched into the wall has been protected behind a perspex sheet.  Most of it seemed to have some religious significance. Brick steps down to the river gate on the River Boyne were almost certainly used in the 18th century and she could well have walked them.
The No. 1 Court Room would have been used on the day of Ann's trial.  I cannot assert that it would have been used for her trial but it is possible.  It is pretty much as it would have been on the day of the trial apart from many coats of paint and varnish and contains the furnishings of the 18th century.
I have some PC problems at the moment and will not be able to send you any of the documents and photographs I have but if you both let me have your postal addresses in private messages, I will send you a memory stick with a selection of what I have.  I have undertaken to do the same for another person descended from our remarkable ancestors.
Paul