Author Topic: Charles Mann  (Read 3075 times)

Offline Forresflower

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Charles Mann
« on: Saturday 10 May 14 15:01 BST (UK) »
Hi there, I am looking for help with trying to trace a birth record for Charles Mann DOB c 1811 in Keith, Banffshire, Scotland. According to LIBINDX his parents were Alexander Mann and Lizzie Forsyth but I believe they were never married. Any help would really be appreciated.

Many thanks.

Offline jim1

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Re: Charles Mann
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 10 May 14 15:51 BST (UK) »
Both IGI & Scotland's People have the same one:
Keith Banffshire:
Charles Mann b. 16/4/1806
Parents: Charles Mann & Janet Henderson.( 9 children in total 1791-1812 )
This is the only Charles Mann showing.
No children showing in Banffshire for Alexander Mann & Lizzie Forsyth.

jim
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline Forresflower

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Re: Charles Mann
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 10 May 14 15:58 BST (UK) »
Hi, thanks for the quick reply. I have seen this one too. I confirmed the parents names from his death certificate so I am sure its not the right one. I have looked under his mothers name as well. I will keep looking, many thanks again.

Offline jim1

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Re: Charles Mann
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 10 May 14 16:15 BST (UK) »
The census shows 3 Charles Manns claiming to be born Keith c.1811
What was his occupation?
Did he marry Lily Donald then Elspet Innes?
You may have to bite the bullet & download his Marriage cert. to Elspet from Scotland's People.
Death certs aren't as reliable.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/


Offline Forfarian

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Re: Charles Mann
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 10 May 14 22:35 BST (UK) »
Both IGI & Scotland's People have the same one

So they should, as they are both indexes to the same set of records  ;)
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Charles Mann
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 10 May 14 22:46 BST (UK) »
I see that the information in LIBINDX came from the Register of Poor. The Keith Registers of Poor are fascinating, because they contain a vast amount of detail, and the Inspector's often blunt comments on the people involved. If Charles was illegitimate, there's a better than even chance that the record will say so. You should be able to get a copy of Charles Mann's record from Moray Local Heritage Centre through the online shop at LIBINDX, unless you are near enough to go to Elgin and look it up yourself.

If he does turn out to be illegitimate, and he was born in Keith, it would be worth taking a look at the Keith Kirk Session records, because the Keith Kirk Session would certainly have taken a close interest in an unmarried pregnancy, and the record, if it exists, would probably tell you where the parties lived, and may even provide other interesting details.

The Keith KS records are in the National Archives of Scotland. They have been digitised, but are only available in General Register House in Edinburgh and a few other Scottish archives - Glasgow, Aberdeen and Inverness, and probably a few more. If you can't get to any of those, you might need to hire a professional searcher.

The 1851 census shows Charles and Lillie and three children in Mid Street, Keith. It gives Charles' age as 36, which implies a birth year of 1814/1815. In 1861 he's a flesher, aged 49, implying a birth in 1811/1812. The 1881 lists him as 70, which implies a birth year of 1810/1811, same as the death from LIBINDX. There are two other Charles Manns in the 1881 census of roughly similar age. One was born in Marnoch and is aged 71. The other is aged 70, was born in Keith, is married to an Isabella and has a family born in Aberdeen, so is evidently a different one.

Whose death certificate have you actually got? Have you got the one for 'your' Charles?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.