World War 1 Medal Card Question

[wavey]

Hi Phil - yes it does. I had found something earlier in the 1927 Gazette confirming the 1922 job but had forgotten about it. The conviction was for conspiracy to defraud the department of labour so it all ties in now I see it again!! He served a prison sentence for it.
The article Rex sent essentially confirmed a great deal and added some vital information. It was the reporting of a court case in Belfast in 1934. James Joseph's in laws were charged with abducting JJ's 2 daughters. He had left their mother, served the prison sentence and gone to England to commit bigamy. His wife/mother of the girls had died and the case was about who he had given guardianship to. It confirmed his first wife's name as Teresa Shortt, gave my mum in law 2 more sisters if they are still alive, confirmed the bigamy and the family's names. It also told us that he was no stranger to fraudulent behaviour! It was a huge help in understanding the sort of person he was and has made me even more determined to find out if he fraudulently obtained the medals or they were his father's and to find out if he served in the second world war or if his entire military career was a total fiction!! Everything helps!!

[forester]

Wavey,

Another bit.

I think that I may have unravelled James Nulty Senior's WW1 career as far as the 3 pages go. I believe you said that he was a career soldier, which would make sense. Even if he had done a full 21 years, his time would have been up before the outbreak of WW1. Do you know if he was in the Royal Irish Regiment and what rank he rose to?

I think that I may have unravelled James Nulty Senior's WW1 career as far as the 3 pages go. I believe you said that he was a career soldier, which would make sense. Even if he had done a full 21 years, his time would have been up before the outbreak of WW1. Do you know if he was in the Royal Irish Regiment and what rank he rose to?

My theory is that he enlisted in the Connaught Rangers as a Special Reservist, probably in a training capacity. He joined at the 3rd Battalion Depot in Galway. His Attestation Sheet is annotated with “Enlisted for service in the United Kingdom only” and “To be promoted to the rank of Colour Sergeant forthwith”. He is actually an Acting Colour Sergeant. For purposes of payment etc, he remained a Private. I don’t know when he was posted to the 6th (Service) Battalion, but the initial Belfast recruits moved to Fermoy in November 1914. On 25th January 1915 he agrees to serve overseas. Then, a month later, he changes his mind and requests his discharge under W.O. Letter/27/Gen No/2228… I can’t find the exact wording of it, but it implies that, for whatever reason, he was able to leave without penalty.


Two weeks later, in March 1915, he is back in Belfast and re-enlisting into what he claims is his old regiment (RIR), totally ignoring his recent past. Once again, he has enlisted for “Home Service only” and “Enlisted for promotion forthwith to the rank of Colour Sergeant”.  He was posted to the 3rd (Reserve) Battalion Depot at Clonmel with immediate promotion to the rank of Colour Sergeant once again. This did not last long as a month later he was discharged under Para 392 (xxv) of King’s Regulations, "his services being no longer required".

Please note that that is only my interpretation.

Phil

PS The bombshell is that I think James (Joseph) Nulty is the son of the above James and that the WW1 career is legitimate. 
I researched another WW1 officer on here several years ago where the words fraud and bigamy were used. Even his entry in thepeerage.com has conveniently been doctored.


 

[wavey]

Hi Phil! Still taking in the interpretation which fills in the blanks as far as we knew them. But that is a huge bombshell!!! It would explain the reappearance of James Joseph Nulty in The Royal Sussex in World War 2 as we know that the James Joseph we are looking at was busy fathering children in Sussex in the 30s and 40s and died there in the 50s. Do you think then that the medal card is legitimately his and that he was old enough (born 1895) to have been a career soldier even before the war as it was suggested he would have to have been in order to be the man on the medal card?
I will be sending off for the service records in a couple of days as we now have the death certificate. Do you know the regimental numbers for both wars that should accompany the application if we assume that he is the soldier in both wars?
I am totally amazed at your bombshell still. I think the family had all come to terms with the idea that he was simply a fraudster. Can you tell me how you came to that conclusion so I can explain it to them too?
Thanks so much for all of this. The answers to what I thought was just a quick post originally have uncovered a life we never expected and one of huge importance to his children who have, on top of everything else, gained two more half sisters!

[mmm45]

James Senior was at Aldershot at one time one of his children on his record was born there

Ady

[wavey]

Hi Ady and Phil - I don't know how yet another post has slipped through my net but - it was one of yours Ady - it says that there is a pension request for a James Nulty at 26 Altcar St who was a colour sergeant and his birth was in 1866 - this is James senior obviously. Isn't this then the same James who is on the medals card? ie not James (Joseph) Nulty junior? You're confused? Not half as much as I am!!

James senior was indeed at Aldershot - his daughter Eva was born there. Thanks Phil for the run down of James senior's WW1 career - I've been through your interpretation with the papers in front of me this morning and it makes sense to a layperson like me. What still doesn't make sense is that, to me, the medals card seems to refer to James senior (in red which it can't as he didn't serve abroad and James Joseph (whoever he was) in blue. Unless it is right that James Joseph was old enough to have served previously as Ady, I think you said he must have in order to be the man on the card, in which case, the entire card would refer to James Joseph Junior. The post regarding the old pre-1881 codes would seem to indicate the older man (or just an older clerk??)

Also, the newspaper article from Rex makes no mention of the MC or any military service despite quoting James Junior in court and the case being largely centred on him - it says that he had been in prison - wouldn't it have mentioned the MC won by James Joseph or at least something about him having served? Maybe not, I guess.

I am printing off every post now and re-reading them in case I have stupidly missed something else important. Any answers to the above couple of posts from me would be gratefully received guys!

[mmm45]

There is a James Nulty Chelsea Pensioners(army) file on Find My Past with no date or place of birth so maybe worth checking out if its James Snrs Pre 1915 record.

wouldve been nice if James Snrs record was a couple of pages longer with places served!

Ady

[forester]

Wavey,

I "lost" a couple of pages from James Senior's records, so I will edit my earlier post when I get a chance and read through your and Ady's latest.

Phil

[mmm45]

James Snr DID agree to serve overseas if you go "backwards" on records instead of forward.
The officers file may prove interesting.His record thats online gives no indication though and is discharged through some Special Reservist legislation Para 25 of Kings Regs 392

[mmm45]

http://www.forrestdale.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/KingsRegs1912/para-25.html

Paragraph 25 explained

Ady