Author Topic: And...another muddle  (Read 4003 times)

Offline chinakay

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And...another muddle
« on: Saturday 15 February 14 15:29 GMT (UK) »
Bore da, gang :)

I see my previous post is still sitting on top of the pile...I have Robert Ellis sorted, but now I have another flock of Roberts to sort out.

This is from the other side of the same family, Dolwyddelan. Robert Williams was born, apparently, in 1796. On the same register page are no less than THREE Robert Williamses born in 1796. Not sure how to pick the right one.

Robert, son of Maurice Williams of Penygelli by Margaret his wife was baptized July 17th.. (FindMyPast)

Robert, son of William Griffith of Bryn-Moel by Anne his wife was baptized Septr 4th. (Anc)

Robert, son of Griffith Williams of Fynhadog-Ucha by Margt his wife was baptized Octobr 23. (FindMyPast)

Now, the Robert son of William Griffith would, at first glance, seem to be the odd one out. But Ancestry does list him as Robert Williams, presumably because of the patronymic. FindMyPast does not seem to use the patronymic in its indexing system.

So...how heavily should I weight the patronymic? Should I disregard it? If so, I still have two Roberts to choose between.

Does any of this make sense? :P :)

Your thoughts are invited :)

Cheers,
China
Moore/Paterson~Montreal
Moore/Addison~New Brunswick
Jubb/Kerr~Mirfield~Halifax~Moffatt
Williams~Dolwyddelan

King~Bedfordshire~Hull
Jenkins~Somerset
Sellers~Hull

Offline Gadget

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Re: And...another muddle
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 15 February 14 15:35 GMT (UK) »
Bonjour, China  ;D

I wouldn't discount the patronymic, in that area at that time. Earlier today I put a link up to Dafydd Hayes' paper on the patronymic  for another member - I expect you've read it before but can give it if you'd like.

I've had a few similar problems and managed to solve the problems by following all of them backwards and forwards - also their siblings. 

Gadget

PS - going off to check up on your Robert Ellis - that was one of my patronymic probs!

PPS - http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=244457.msg1335347#msg1335347     ;D ;D ;D
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Offline chinakay

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Re: And...another muddle
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 15 February 14 22:25 GMT (UK) »
Just getting my thoughts in order here.

The first "Robert, son of Maurice Williams of Penygelli by Margaret his wife" had the following siblings:
1790 Anne
1794 David
1798 Gwen

The second "Robert, son of William Griffith of Bryn-Moel by Anne his wife" had the following siblings:
1783 Jane
1783 William
1784 Ellin
1786 Jane
1791 Allice
1793 Griffith
1799 William

The third "Robert, son of Griffith Williams of Fynhadog-Ucha by Margt his wife" had the following siblings:
1795 Jane
1798 Allice
1803 Elizabeth
1805 Mary
1808 Gwen
1810 Martha
1812 Phoebe

So....a generation later, the Robert whose parents I'm looking for named his own children:
1827 William
1829 John
1830 Robert
1832 Griffith
1833 Owan

Does this tell us anything?

Didn't think so. :P :P :P :( :( :(
Moore/Paterson~Montreal
Moore/Addison~New Brunswick
Jubb/Kerr~Mirfield~Halifax~Moffatt
Williams~Dolwyddelan

King~Bedfordshire~Hull
Jenkins~Somerset
Sellers~Hull

Offline Gadget

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Re: And...another muddle
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 15 February 14 22:40 GMT (UK) »
More info needed.

You have to trace them back and forward - did any of them die, marry,  etc., etc.
 
It took me ages to work mine out - sat with my records and booklets, and lots of paper - I did all that before I came on here.

I see that the one you're looking for had a son Griffith.

No  :P :P :P :P  or you won't get any help,  me gal.  Get you're paper out and start doing the puzzles  ;D

Nos da

Gadget
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Offline chinakay

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Re: And...another muddle
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 15 February 14 22:43 GMT (UK) »
I've been at this the whole day, and all of last evening. Been through all my emails, paper notes and Word docs. Ancestry, IGI and FindMyPast.

I did take some time to watch the first two episodes of Tales From the Green Valley. As my lot seem to have included several farmers I found it quite fascinating.
Moore/Paterson~Montreal
Moore/Addison~New Brunswick
Jubb/Kerr~Mirfield~Halifax~Moffatt
Williams~Dolwyddelan

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Jenkins~Somerset
Sellers~Hull

Offline Gadget

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Re: And...another muddle
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 16 February 14 08:45 GMT (UK) »
I think that it's more likely to be the  son  of the Griffith William or Wlliam Griffiths.

I've been through the 1841 looking for suitable ones - not sure which is yours - can you give me the ref, please?  Also, have you traced back the 3 fathers?

PS - Ok found them in the 1841 (HO107/1395/2/9/11) - he's definitely down as Robert William there.  First son was William. Was Gwen's father a John- if so, I think I'd investigate the line of William Griffith first.

Also, Welsh Wills  at Nat Lib might throw up something.
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Offline Gadget

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Re: And...another muddle
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 16 February 14 11:56 GMT (UK) »
I assume that you've seen the 1826 marriage entry  - one of the witnesses appears to be a William William(s)  - possibly brother b. 1799 in your list  :-\

If so, it might well be  further evidence of William Griffith as father. Mind you., Williams was probably one of the commonest surnames in Caernarfonshire -  I think  it had more William(s) than any of the other Welsh counties. 
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Offline chinakay

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Re: And...another muddle
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 16 February 14 15:33 GMT (UK) »
Morning all!

I have the 1826 marriage, yes, but sadly it doesn't name the parents. I did look for a suitable William Williams but had already decided he must be a brother. Also the other witness, Richard Jones, is likely her brother.

Yes, that's the right Robert William in the 1841, wife Gwen. Ancestry's search engine wasn't working yesterday and I was ready to throw the computer through the window. As you do :P

I have the MI from Dolwyddelan churchyard, provided by a recently-found cousin, but although it does confirm I had the right Robert William(s) there is still no evidence of his parents.

He died in 1843. Shame the cert wouldn't name parents :(

Gwen's father seems to have been John, yes, but that's from the IGI some time ago. Before they went to the new system. I haven't looked for her yet, I'll do that today.

Got a bit of interesting news yesterday. I'll put it on the Beudy Bach thread :)

Many thanks for your help, Gadget :)

Cheers,
China
Moore/Paterson~Montreal
Moore/Addison~New Brunswick
Jubb/Kerr~Mirfield~Halifax~Moffatt
Williams~Dolwyddelan

King~Bedfordshire~Hull
Jenkins~Somerset
Sellers~Hull

Offline Gadget

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Re: And...another muddle
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 16 February 14 15:45 GMT (UK) »
Can't find any wills as yet and Bryn Moel seems to be occupied by Joneses after William Griffith's death in 1830.

Will go back to my Farrow and Ball paint charts now  ;D

(I'm on the Beudy bach thread so I'll get a notification)
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