Author Topic: Filling the Gap  (Read 9586 times)

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 09 November 11 07:20 GMT (UK) »
Unfortunately the 1841 census is not very good at supplying info: it doesn't give the place of birth, merely whether or not the person was born in the county in which they are currently residing.  If I get a chance I'll look through these; I've already been through the 1851 census for Gorleston and haven't found the family.

Regards,
GS
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 09 November 11 22:47 GMT (UK) »
I have looked through Folio 31 and found nothing regarding your quarry.  Certainly seems an interesting area though:  inhabitants include Charles Landseer, who gives his occupation as 'historic painter' and Philip Gaugain who is down as 'portrait painter'.  Lots of musicians, surgeons, bankers and even a Page to the Queen.

At that time Elizabeth would have been 18 and her child would not be born for at least another year (theoretically).   Do you know if she went to London to become an actress or if she went as a servant and thereafter changed her career path? 
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Roy G

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 10 November 11 06:19 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for looking GS. 
Your findings at least suggest the address where her first son was born was a significant one rather than a backstreet.  More an address for a mistress than an impoverished young actress who was acknowledged to have stunning looks but no talent.

Yesterday a colleague found what we believe to be that same child on the 1851 census (HO 107 1046) indexed as "Henyett" which once again seems to rewrite another aspect of her published biography.  In 1851 Martin Constantine Haryett (later the Earl of Bechevet) was recorded as being in France with his mother gaining a private education alongside Napoleon's two other illegitimate sons, not as it now looks, working as an assitant in his uncle's tailors shop in Brighton.

I suppose when people told lies in the past, they never dreamed that future generations would ever be able to access an entire range of documents that would help disprove their imaginative stories.   Roy G

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 12 November 11 21:36 GMT (UK) »
Certainly the area in folio 31 seems particularly affluent; I will now go off and start on Fol 32.  How very interesting about Martin working in his uncle's shop.  Will get back with any info I glean from my next trawl of the census.

regards,
GS
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Roy G

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 13 November 11 07:21 GMT (UK) »
Dont put yourself to an excess of inconvenience on my behalf, I was just hoping that Eliza would turn up on the 1841. 

Unfortunately, her courtesan profession dictated that she lived and worked under many guises.  Was she simply enumerated as 18 year old Eliza Haryett with its numerous variations of spelling, the actress Harriet Howard, falsely as Mrs Mountjoy, or as the wife of another temporary lover and living under his name?  (Note Major Mountjoy was in Horse Guards in 1841)

Of two of the many other contradictory resources I have been reading about her, one places her around  1841 still living with Jem Mason at an address at 277 Oxford Street, London, and another at 9 Berkley Square.  We homed in on the Upper Fitzroy Street Address because that was the address that appeared on her son's baptism in 1842, but she does seem to have moved around conciderably from conquest to conquest.

Roy G 

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 13 November 11 11:46 GMT (UK) »
Well, this is very interesting in the 1841, Harley Place, Cavendish Square:

Capt Martyn, 30, Ind
Mrs Martyn, 23

I've already found Capt Martyn at Horse Guards but this might well be him too!

Ref:  HO107/676/8/33 -15
St Marylebone; Middx
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Roy G

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 13 November 11 15:18 GMT (UK) »
The probability is that Horse gaurds was not properly enumated, they just accepted the names of all those who happened to be on regimental strength. 
I now have to ask if there were any children with Mrs Martyn.  My reasoning is that I know they had a daughter Maria Louisa (for she eloped to marry Weatherly in 1857) but am unsure of exactly when she was born.  Roy G

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 13 November 11 22:42 GMT (UK) »
Is Mountjoy Martyn the same person as Francis Mountjoy Martyn of 17 Charles Street, Hanover Square?
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Roy G

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Re: Filling the Gap
« Reply #17 on: Monday 14 November 11 05:31 GMT (UK) »
Captain Francis Mountjoy Martyn of 17 Charles Street, Hanover Square  (born Calcutta India, c 1810) must be him.  He was an extremely wealthy man who in later years was promoted Major, then Lt Colonel.  But was he living there with his legitimate wife? 

I do know he married an Ann or Amelia in the Chepstow district late 1837, but cannot say whether she travelled with him to London thereafter.  If there was a woman saying she was his wife at the above London address in 1841 without an "A" as an initial, it suggests she was a mistress, perhaps Eliza Haryett, also known as Harriet Howard.    Roy G