RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Jessies Mum on Wednesday 16 January 13 04:36 GMT (UK)
-
Henry George (or George Henry) Williams married Essie Jose (possibly Esther?) in 1917. Know absolutely nothing about any children they may have had or any details on Esther whatsoever, other than the date of her marriage to Henry. Can anyone assist me please? Many thanks :)
-
Any idea of which state first?
Neil
-
Sorry, my apologies - all Victoria :)
-
The new WWW.BDM.Vic.Gov.au site seem to be on the blink you could try it from your end possibly and it would help to have some parent names as WILLIAMS is very common?
Neil
-
Nothing known about Essie at all, Henry George's parents were Clara Marion Dear and John Edward Haynes Williams.
-
According to Vic BDM No Henry or George Williams married between 1910 and 1920 ???
Neil
-
I've found the marriage, Neil & Jessie'sMum.... nothing else at this stage.
Essie JOSE married Hy George WILLIAMS in 1917.
Ref = 1367
Dee :)
-
Only birth I can see is the following ??? ???
Esther JOSE born 1866 at INKERMAN to Manuel JOSE & Elizabeth HECKLEY
Ref = 3218
I can’t see any other marriages for an Esther/Essie JOSE.
Dee :)
-
JOSE Essie
To WILLIAMS Hy George
Year 1917
Reg. Number1367
E Roll-
In 1903 Address Tookak Rd Malvern
JOSE
Esther
Bertha
1909 Address- Moonlight Flat Maryborough
JOSE
Bertha-HD
Manuel- Miner
Herbert Manuel- Miner
Elizabeth- HD
Marriage
JOSE Bertha (b Adelaide Lead)
To WALKLEY Henry (b Bung Bong)
Year 1912
Reg 9017
Children were born to this couple.
DEATHS
Bertha WALKLEY
At Maryborough, Victoria
Age 91
Father's Name Manuel Jose
Mother's Name Elizabeth Acrey
Registration Year1970
Regi 25867
Esther JOSE
At Maryborough, Victoria
Age 73
Father's Name Manuel Jose
Mother's Name Elizth Ackley
Registration Year 1940
REG 19846
There were other siblings in the family of MANUEL and ELIZABETH.
Sue
-
Well done, Sue....that seems to eliminate the Esther born 1866 to Manuel and Elizabeth HECKLEY/ACKLEY.
Back to the drawing board..... :-\
Dee :)
-
From 1858 to 1879 when MANUEL and ELIZABETH were registering their children there appears a wide variation in the spelling of ELIZABETH's surname including HECKLEY.
Sue
-
Hmm so the marriage is under Hy George ??? I thought I had covered all the combinations including just using Williams. Gees no wonder I don't like the Vic BDM >:(
Neil
-
It tricks us all sometimes, Neil. :-\
Dee :)
-
With the marriage certificate having been found, perhaps I should download it and see what it reveals about Essie's parents?
-
Okay, have downloaded the certificate - Essie's mother's name is Florence, Essie is born in Geelong and her father's first name is Charles - he is deceased and the surname is a little difficult to read!
-
Does it give Essie's age, JM?
Dee :)
-
Yep, she is 23 - so marrying in 1917 gives her birth circa 1894.
-
That's a help! Now to see if one of us can find something!
Is the mother's surname the one that's difficult to read?
Dee :)
-
Thanks Dee :D
-
Wonder if this could be Essie? It's the only likely looking birth. No births to a father Charles.
Ethel JOSE born 1892 at GLONG
Parents = Unknown & Flor Mary JOSE
Spouse Gvn Names/Mother:
Ref = 23481
Dee :)
-
It's the father's name that is difficult to read - definitely Florence has the surname of Jose. I did find a Florence Mary Jose born in Geelong in 1872 - that would tie in with the birth of an Ethel?
-
Ah....if Florence has the surname of JOSE, then I think that's the birth. I've searched all the births in that index using just the mother's name of Florence JOSE and there aren't any others for any surname.
Dee :)
-
I think you are right Dee - now to find the death!
-
It's not showing up for me, I'm afraid, Jessies Mum. :-\
Dee :)
-
just wondering if anyone can find this couple (or either one of them) after they married in 1917 on any electoral roll? While they both were born in Geelong, the marriage certificate states they were married in Collingwood and both living at addresses in Melbourne at the time of their wedding.
-
According to Henry George's death certificate, it states he was married, but a friend was the informant on it - residential address being Richmond - can anyone find them?
-
According to Henry George's death certificate, it states he was married, but a friend was the informant on it - residential address being Richmond - can anyone find them?
just wondering if anyone can find this couple (or either one of them) after they married in 1917 on any electoral roll? While they both were born in Geelong, the marriage certificate states they were married in Collingwood and both living at addresses in Melbourne at the time of their wedding.
What makes it difficult for us is you have the advantage of having the certificates and have not transcribed all the information so we can help you further eg what was Henry George's occupation on the marriage certificate? What were their addresses at the time of their marriage? What was the Usual Residence on the death certificate. Pointless just saying you have a certificate and not typing up all the information.
Cando
-
Death Certificate - Henry George Williams, occupation book-keeper, usual place of residence, 4 Sherwood Street, Richmond, date of death 25 April 1970.
Marriage Certificate - Henry living at 13 Howard Street, West Melbourne, occupation barman
Marriage Certificate - Ethel living at 34 Capel Street, West Melbourne
-
Does the marriage certificate actually name Essie as Ethel?
Death Certificate - Henry George Williams, occupation book-keeper, usual place of residence, 4 Sherwood Street, Richmond, date of death 25 April 1970.
This is the only Henry George WILLIAMS death in Victoria in 1970
WILLIAMS Henry George
Father Henry George Mother Hannah UNKNOWN
At Hawthorn 82 years 1970 Reg#9076
Cremation 28 Apr 1970
http://smct.org.au/deceasedsearch/result/351221
However I don't think it is your person of interest
Nothing known about Essie at all, Henry George's parents were Clara Marion Dear and John Edward Haynes Williams.
Jessies Mum
Cando
-
Marriage certificate states Ethel
-
Thank you. Rather odd that the index states her name as Essie.
Essie JOSE married Hy George WILLIAMS in 1917.
Ref = 1367
There are no births registered to John Edward Haynes WILLIAMS and Clara Mary Ann DEAR in Victoria post 1873 the last being at Camperdown. Their first birth in Vic registered in 1859 at Geelong.
ALL the information on the certs it would make it so much easier to help you.
Who are Henry George's parents on the marriage certificate?
What was his age at the time of his marriage?
Why do you think it is your Henry George's death in 1970 - the parents are not a match?
Cando
-
This is the only Henry George WILLIAMS I can see born Geelong. If we had all the information from the marriage cert then we could help you further. After spending further time searching.....
Birth
WILLIAMS Henry George
Father Brindley Hy Mother Anna Maria BROWN
At Geelong 1889 Reg#3930
I recall seeing a Brindley as the son of John Edward Haynes WILLIAMS and Clara Mary Ann DEAR
Perhaps time to revisit your earlier research.
Cando
-
Absolute error - when enhancing the image of the marriage certificate, she is definitely listed as ESSIE - employment being a dress maker.
Henry's parents - Brindley Haines Williams and Anna Marie Brown.
-
So we were given other incorrect info ....
Nothing known about Essie at all, Henry George's parents were Clara Marion Dear and John Edward Haynes Williams.
Perhaps now you realise the value the transcribing of ALL information from certificates. It helps up to help you and on a personal level, would have saved me time trawling through the CD's. The Victorian indexes are on six indexes.
Cheers
Cando
-
Cannot apologise enough Cando. Am so sorry and sincerely do appreciate the time that goes into this - I honestly did not realize I had made such a monumental stuff up :-\
-
Apology accepted Jessies Mum :)
Now we need to find this couple on the electoral roll and their deaths.
Back later :)
Cando
-
A marriage in Vic
JOSE Flor Mary
To JOHNSON Wm
Her Birth Place GEELONG WEST
Year 1895
Reg. 1127
Sue
-
Before his marriage it looks like Henry George WILLIAMS was with his parents
1914 E. Roll
Address 7 Kerley St. Geelong
WILLIAMS, Henry George -Occ ship’s steward.
WILLIAMS, Anna Maria – HD
WILLIAMS, Thomas –Occ ship’s steward
WILLIAMS, Thomas Brindley –Occ ship’s steward
Also in Geelong
Address 84 Mooroobool St. Geelong
WILLIAMS, Henry Brindley- Occ Restaurant helper.
I am a bit confused about the men with the Brindley given name ???
Sue
-
Brindley Haynes WILLIAMS son of John Edward Haynes WILLIAMS and Clara DEAR. I have helped someone with this family before as if I recall correctly John had a wife in South Australia and never married Clara DEAR. I have noticed that Haynes/Haines is often transcribed as Henry.
Brindley Haynes and Anna Maria BROWN had sons Henry George and Thomas Brindley.
If we had the full transcription of the 1917 marriage certificate we would know the occupation of Henry George's father.
Cando
-
Brindley Haynes WILLIAMS son of John Edward Haynes WILLIAMS and Clara DEAR. I have helped someone with this family before as if I recall correctly John had a wife in South Australia and never married Clara DEAR. I have noticed that Haynes/Haines is often transcribed as Henry.
Brindley Haynes and Anna Maria BROWN had sons Henry George and Thomas Brindley.
If we had the full transcription of the 1917 marriage certificate we would know the occupation of Henry George's father.
Cando
So, J's Mum, what would be a good thing for you to do now is look at the headings on the columns of the certificate. Then-- ;D
Type the heading and all the words you can read in the column.
Don't leave out any columns or words. (including occupations)
Then we will all have a transcript of the certificate which will help greatly in making useful searches
Sue
-
Certificate of Marriage 1917
No in Register: 235
When and where married: March 23 1917, 11 Victoria Parade, Collingwood
Name of each Party: Henry George Williams / Essie Jose
Conjugal Condition: Bachelor / Spinster
Children by each former Marriage: blank
Birthplace: Geelong Victoria / Geelong Victoria
Occupation: Barman / Dress maker
Age in years: 28 / 23
Residence of each party: Present: 13 Howard St, W Melbourne / 34 Capel St, W Melbourne
Residence of each party: Usual: 13 Howard St, W Melbourne / 34 Capel St, W Melbourne
Father: Brindley Haines Williams, Caterer / Charles ? deceased (possibly Proust? not clear sorry)
Mother: Anna Maria Brown / Florence Jose
I understand the confusion with the name Brindley. Henry's father was named Brindley Henry Haynes Williams. Henry's brother was Brindley Thomas Williams, but went by the name Thomas.
Sincerely hope this assists you all. THank you for the help you have given me so far
-
It's quite the long shot, but i'm just wondering if anyone has any extra information these few years later regarding Ethel "Essie" Williams and her husband Henry George Williams. I too am still in the dark trying to find this couple - and no i'm not convinced that it is his death in 1970. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.