The Salmonds of Balquhatstone

[Forfarian]

Ah.

That's actually five different sasines, three of which mention Jean Main.

I don't have access to the original documents - you'd have to get print-outs from the National Records of Scotland.

[Forfarian]

Elizabeth Salmond married Robert Howie 1686. I have a Susanna Howie born 1692 married to John Gartshore 1712, New Monkland. Is Susanna the daughter of Robert/ Elizabeth Salmond?

It's actually Elizabeth Manuel, widow of Robert Salmon(d), who married Robert Howie. Not Elizabeth Salmon(d) - Salmon(d) was only her temporary first married surname.

Susanna's husband John Gartshore was the son of John Gartshore and Elizabeth Wood. Their first two sons were both named John, then there was a Robert. Assuming the first John died in infancy, that might hint at Susanna's father's name was Robert. Their eldest daughter was Elizabeth, which might hint at her mother's name being Elizabeth, but the water is muddied because his mother was also Elizabeth. There are further complcations because in some of the baptism records her name is given as Ann(e) instead of Susanna.

Do you have a reliable date of birth for Susanna, or have you found it somewhere online, or is it a guesstimate based on her being married in 1712? 

The problem is that (Sus)anna Howie, wife of John Gartshore, is not mentioned in the indexes to the Registers of Sasines, but there are four children of Robert Howie and Elizabeth Manuel mentioned. So if she was their daughter, why is she not included in sasines along with them?

[jimmain]

This is what I have re John Gartshore/ Elizabeth Wood, some from IGI, some from Gartshore family research, so obviously a little suspect:
John Gartshore married Elizabeth Wood 4July 1673, Kirkintilloch. They moved from Kirkintilloch to New Monkland after the marriage.
There is a sasine whereby John Gartshore (Elizabeth Wood) borrowed money from Alexander Gartshore of Gartshore in December 1688, bought Middle Blairlin a week later and had paid back Alexander Gartshore by 1694.
They had the following children in Blairlin: Agnes 1674 (John Rankin); Janet 1676; Elizabeth 1677; Mary 1679 (John Lang); Thomas 1681 (Agnes Findlay); James 1685; John 1690 (Susanna Howie).
John was the only one found in IGI.
Blairlinn farm no longer exists.  This farm was actually three farms (East/Mid/West);  Mid Blairlinn abutted Clayslap, located between Cumbernauld and Myvot. It was part of the Shaw’s holdings, later acquired by Robert Muirhead whose granddaughter’s daughter sold it in 1886. All the land in this area was originally part of the lands of Glentore with the superior being Hamilton’s then the Fleming’s.
In the late 17th and early 18th Century, a Sommerville family owned East Blairlinn but the family resided in Glasgow. Perhaps they portioned a parcel to the Cleland family who was farming there. However, by 1785, Easter Blairlinn was occupied by James Shaw; Clelands were at Mid Blairlinn, along with the Wotherspoon, Darnly and Paterson families.
John Gartshore died 1Jan 1714, Blairlinn farm, New Monkland.
I don't have a reliable date of birth for Susanna.

[Forfarian]

Yes, looks like you have pretty much the same as me. I am not pursuing the earlier generations of Gartshores, as they are not related to me.

Susanna Howie may be related, so I am looking at her children, and I am definitely related to the children of her son Robert, because his mother-in-law was a Waddell of Stanrigg. This Robert was born at Middle Blairline in 1727.

Susanna's son John also married a Waddell, who may be a daughter of Alexander W and Elizabeth Martin, but we have yet to work out definitely where she fits in, if at all.

[jimmain]

The OPR entry (John Gartshore/ Susanna Howie) notes that the witnesses at the wedding were John Craig (the younger), Middle Blairlin, and William Thome, son of Robert Thome in Easter Glentore.
They had the following children at Blairlin farm: John 1714; Elizabeth 1717 (John Jack 1746); Jean 1719; John 1721 (Janet Waddell); Susanna 1724 (James Thom 1746); Robert 1727 (Mary Mochrie); Alexander 1730; John 1732-79 (Janet Waddell 1760); Joseph 1736.
Do you agree with the above? Jim

[Forfarian]

I didn't have spouses for Elizabeth and Susanna, or John's death date, but apart from those, yes, I have the same information.

I have yet to look at all the baptisms to make sure they are all genuine. There is an online tree somewhere that says Susanna Howie died in 1734, which is clearly incompatible with her having Joseph in 1736.

[Graham_of_that_Ilk]

Bye

[Forfarian]

As I think I have already said, I have not looked into the earlier generations of Gartshores because my possible connection is via Susanna Howie. Therefore I have no opinions on the antecedents of John Gartshore, or on the names of his siblings. I think he is the son of John G and Elizabeth Wood, baptised 11 May 1690 in the parish of Cumbernauld, but I am quite willing to be corrected if there is evidence to show that he was not this John Gartshore.

Susanna Howie (also in some records Anne or Anna Howie) married John Gartshore on 29 December 1712. I think it possible, if not likely, therefore, that she was born earlier than 1695. I am not certain who her parents were, but my 5th-great-grandfather Joseph Howie of Meikle Drumgray, who married Elizabeth Hay in Annathill on 29 July 1717, was a contemporary of Susanna/Anne Howie or Gartshore. Joseph's eldest son was Robert, so I speculate that Joseph and Susanna/Anne were related to or descended from Robert Howie, Portioner of Easter Glentore. He was the first of three Robert Howies, father, son and grandson. The son predeceased the father, because in a document dated 12 December 1710 the grandson is described as a minor, the only son and heir to the deceased Robert Howie younger of Glentore and grandson of Robert Howie there.

I am also related to later generations of Gartshores via Mary Mochrie, daughter of James Mochrie and Janet Waddell, who married Robert Gartshore, son of John G and Susanna/Anne Howie, in about 1752.

As for John G being born in Cumbernauld, there is no reason to think that he was. He was certainly baptised in Cumbernauld, and the original baptism record says, "John Gartshore son lawll to John Gartshore and Elizabeth having a testimony from East Monkland". Babies were sometimes baptised in a different parish, for example if the minister of their parents' home parish was absent or ill.

Blairlin has only been in the same local authority area as Cumbernauld since the reorganisation of local government in 1975, so this 'weird' fact is irrelevant, if not positively unhelpful, for purposes of historical or genealogical research.

I am very happy to exchange notes on the descendants of Robert Gartshore and Mary Mochrie, or to discuss the likely parentage of Susanna/Anne Howie or Gartshore, but for the present I have no reason to investigate the rest of the Gartshore family.