Author Topic: Anne Salesbury Powell  (Read 20167 times)

Offline Rol

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Re: Anne Salesbury Powell
« Reply #36 on: Sunday 13 December 09 17:43 GMT (UK) »


Hi Paul,

... so there is at least one other Hugh it could be. Mind you, there is also a burial record in Llanfwrog, with no other information, for a Hugh Salesbury who died in 1670 - so who knows!

It is certainly not easy to be really confident about which man was Anne Salesbury Powell's brother Hugh.  But I do think that the entry in Foster's Alum. Oxon. is probably the best pointer we currently have,  given the explicit link shown to a Henry Salesbury (right spelling) of Clocaenog.


Rol

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Offline Pauls63

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Re: Anne Salesbury Powell
« Reply #37 on: Sunday 13 December 09 18:04 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rol,

I agree.
The PR entries don't really offer anything to the contrary, due to their lack of additional information.
Hugh was not an uncommon Salesbury name.

Paul

Offline Jo Harding

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Re: Anne Salesbury Powell
« Reply #38 on: Monday 14 December 09 16:22 GMT (UK) »
Hello Pauls63,

My interest in this family is partly due to the fact I lived in the areas of North Wales where they came from. I have also visited some of the places they lived etc, Rug and Llanrhaeadr yng Nghinmeirch being a couple of them.
I also know Combermere and that area too.

The families who lived at Cotton Hall are well covered on Ancestry World Tree. I take it you have access to this? Let me have contact details via PM if not.

A list of names that you are seeking would be helpful, I can see what I can come up with. I possess a few old books on North Wales which are a mine of information.

Are you doing this research for your own interest, or is there a book planned?

Jo



Offline Pauls63

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Re: Anne Salesbury Powell
« Reply #39 on: Tuesday 15 December 09 16:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jo,

Well, I'm definitely not writing a book, although it would be great if someone else did :)

I was born and bred in Ruthin and my family are still around there.  Unfortunately I don't live there anymore which would certainly make my research a bit easier.
I have only just started looking at my family tree and I'm ashamed to say I knew nothing about the Salusburys until I started researching my ancestors.
My main area of research at the moment is trying to trace my specific branch, although I have read a fair bit about the more famous branches.
Obviously at this point I'm not even sure there is even a connection to this family, although I would be surprised if there wasn't, as there was so many of them.

Thanks for the offer of looking up some names.  I'll PM you my contact details.

Cheers

Paul



Offline Rol

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Re: Anne Salesbury Powell
« Reply #40 on: Tuesday 15 December 09 21:46 GMT (UK) »


I have only just started looking at my family tree and I'm ashamed to say I knew nothing about the Salusburys ...

. . . well I wish I had picked up the necessary skills (way back when) as fast as you seem to have done,  Paul! :)


Rol
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Offline hiraeth

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Re: Anne Salesbury Powell
« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 15 December 09 22:40 GMT (UK) »
Something I had not realized until now is that the Chester Archives also hold wills/probates for some of the Salusbury connections in North Wales :)     
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Offline Rol

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Re: Anne Salesbury Powell
« Reply #42 on: Wednesday 16 December 09 04:08 GMT (UK) »


Presumably most of those are the wills of people who lived in those few Flintshire parishes or townships that lay within the jurisdiction of the Bishop of Chester.  But in addition some people from North Wales certainly moved to Chester to set up in business -- as was the case with Harri ap Ffoulke Salesbury,  one of the cadet-line grandsons of the Piers Salesbury of Bachymbyd who married the heiress of Rûg:  for MS pedigree refs.,  see Bartrum's WG2,  page Salesbury 9,  and the note to that page shown in Additions & Corrections vol I  (Harri/Henry's son Ffoulke was landlord of the Talbot Inn at Chester,  and became one of the city's aldermen:  NLW Wynnstay MS 144 p724.)

Many people would also have come to Chester for shorter term business or social/pleasure purposes,  including marriage (c.f. my Reply 17);  but it seems unlikely that their period of residence would have been sufficient to justify the diocese of Chester gaining jurisdiction over their wills.

Some of the people in this category who possessed larger rent-rolls had town houses there,  as also happened in the cases of Oswestry (a bit) and Shrewsbury (more so).  If their own ancestral estate was remote and wild,  such people could develop home-sickness in its alternative (i.e. opposite) meaning and end up becoming almost full time city-dwellers.  But the normal result of such multi-jurisdictional property ownership would be to make a PCC grant necessary.

In the earlier 17th c.,  when the Court of the Council in the Marches of Wales (based at Ludlow Castle) was still very active,  there could be legal reasons for leaving one's home parish and moving to a more congenial base such as Chester,  where the court's writ no longer ran as once it had.  Many years ago I came across a rather venomous land dispute in western Denbighshire temp. Charles I in which the complainant had been successful at Ludlow but the defendant (his mother as it happened) was defying the court's decrees.  He lost patience,  had the land sequestrated by the sheriff's men and had a warrant issued for his ma's arrest.  But she outwitted him,  as he later bleated in a Chancery bill,  because
Quote
... she hath withdrawne herself and her habitac'on ... into the cittie of Chester,  where shee now liveth
No idea whether she stayed on and died there -- never found a Chester will (or any other sort) for her,  unfortunately.  But she was certainly a fighter,  and no doubt others occasionally moved out of the wilds of Wales to Chester for similar reasons,  and unlike her did leave evidence of the fact in the probate records.


Rol

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Offline Jo Harding

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Re: Anne Salesbury Powell
« Reply #43 on: Thursday 17 December 09 10:44 GMT (UK) »
The link to the Cheshire Record Office Wills Database which is online is as follows:

http://www.cheshire.gov.uk/Recordoffice/Wills/Home.html

It is possible to search this and order a Will online.

The relationship between Chester and the Welsh "immigrants" is complex, even to this day. As Rol says, many of the wealthy families maintained a town house in Chester. This seems to have been very fashionable in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. Indeed some of the better houses in Chester have been built for wealthy patrons from other areas. The place which is the Bear and Billet pub was once the town house of the Earl of Shrewsbury. There are many more like this.

A friend maintains that even to this day, a Cestrian has the right to shoot any Welshman found after dusk within the walls of the City of Chester. I should add that it is shoot with a bow and arrow. The original law which permitted this has never been repealed. I don't plan to put this to the test.   ;D

Jo




Offline hiraeth

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Re: Anne Salesbury Powell
« Reply #44 on: Thursday 17 December 09 16:57 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the link Jo.  The will I found does not appear to have been proved at Chester as it doesn't come up in their database.  It appears to have been held in the archives of the Birchmore Cullimore Collection.  (Birchmore Cullimore were auctioneers and solicitors in Chester for about 500 years  :D )     A bit odd really.  The NA say it is in the Chester Archives but now it has supposedly been sent to the Clwyd Record Office but their archive database does not show it is held there either :'(    The document (DBC 1/16/4) is the will and probate (16 Jan 1578/9) of a Thomas Vychan Salisbury of Llan Elidan co Denb. 

I've been searching the NLW archives using Bodyngharad and Hugh for search terms with some interesting results. 

1620, July 22.
EXEMPLIFICATION of the final concord in a fine between Humfrey Midleton and Hugh Salesbury, gentlemen, plaintiffs, and Robert Salesbury, kt., and Eleanor, his wife, deforciants, of 100 messuages, etc.

1650, March 29.
EXEMPLIFICATION of the final concord between Humphrey Midleton an Hugh Salusbury, gentlemen, plaintiffs, and Robert Salusbury, kt., and Elinor, his wife, deforciants, of 100 messuages, etc


I'm out of my depth here ;)  Does anyone know what the phrase "EXEMPLIFICATION of the final corcord" means ?
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