Death lookup in Victoria: James H ALLAN

[bedfordshire boy]

Phil,

Elizabeth Watson Smyth was baptised on 4 March 1831 at St George Hanover Square, the daughter of George and Elizabeth Watson Smyth. perfumer of Bond St, London.

George Watson Smyth married Elizabeth Venner at St George Hanover Square on 19 July 1828 (hence Reginald Venner Selby)

I'm working on the Watson Smyth family in conjunction with a Frenchman, as Elizabeth Watson Smyth's sister, Frances Henrietta Watson Smyth, married a Frenchman in Boulogne sur mer, and lived thereafter in France. A third sister, Georgina, the eldest, stayed in England.

I'm just beginning to put a report together and will be happy to send a copy to anyone who's interested.

Elizabeth's grandfather George describes himself in his 1842 will as "George Watson Smyth (heretofore George Watson)" and refers in the will to a deceased brother, Harry Watson, in Aberdeenshire, Scotland. George was seriously rich, and left a bequest to his granddaughter Elizabeth, daughter of his deceased son George (who died in 1831 shortly after Elizabeth was baptised and almost exactly nine months before his third daughter was born).

There's a family legend in France that Frances was the granddaughter, by way of an illegitimate parent, of King George IV by his mistress Mrs Fitzherbert née Maria Anne Smythe. I don't believe it, but wonder if there's a similar story in Australia.

Thanks for clearing up what happened to Alfred and Elizabeth for me - I wondered why I couldn't find them after their marriage!
In fact I wasn't even sure that it was Alf Selby that she married as opposed to the other male on the page in the GRO index!

Elizabeth's Uncle Edward bought Wadhurst Castle in 1844 - just Google it to see the circle they moved in.

David

[Philcandy]

David

many thanks for sharing your knowledge of this family. It certainly sounds like an interesting line to research.

I'm glad that my own postings and inquiries have been useful to you: Elizabeth died in Warrnambool, Victoria on 23 Feb 1912; Alfred at Warrandyte Victoria on 16 December 1918.

They both left wills which can be downloaded and viewed for free at www.prov.vic.gov.au (Wills and Probates tab).  Hers in particular is long, complex and valuable; in it she leaves a considerable sum to Thomas SELBY of Boulogne sur Mer, so that might be an interesting link to pursue.

Kind regards

Phil

[bedfordshire boy]

Thanks a lot Phil, this is a complicated family! Discovered today that Elizabeth Selby's grandparents, George Watson (who added Smyth to his name after the death of his uncle James Paul Smyth in 1797) and Phoebe Vaile didn't marry until 1819, after having 7 children together between 1801 and 1812, with all those I can trace having the surname Vaile.

The wills are interesting. Was it just coincidence that Thomas Selby lived at Boulogne sur Mer, France, where Elizabeth Selby's sister also lived? I don't usually believe in coincidences.

Kind regards

David

I wonder!
Wikipedia
Thomas Selby (1791-1874) was an English cricketer. He was born in Gillingham, Kent, England on the 4th of November, 1791 and died on the 7th of May, 1874 at Boulogne, France. He played on the Kent cricket team from 1839 to 1841.

In 1851 there's a Thomas Selby 59 b Gillingham living in West Malling Kent with wife Maria b Belgium. The same family in 1841 included Thomas 45 solicitor, Marie 35 b Foreign parts, Marie 10, Rose 7 and Alfred 5. Alfred's age ties in with the emigration age.  But I can't see Thomas the younger mentioned in the will.

[Philcandy]

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Marriages Dec 1856
SELBY Alfred   St Geo Hanover Sq 1a/311   
SMYTH Elizabeth Watson     St Geo Hanover Sq    1a/311

Their arrival in Victoria
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=23

SELBY Alfred  20 years  Mar 1857  on the SWIFTSURE Port B   121/004
SELBY Elizabeth  24 years Mar 1857 on the SWIFTSURE Port B  121/004

and there is only birth registered to them on the Victorian indexes and he [Reginald Verner] was born Melton.  Constance Geraldine's marriage registration also states b. Melton.

Cheers
Cando
 

Fellow listers

Could I please impose on someone to look up the death index for Alfred SELBY in 1918?

I'd like to know the names of his parents; I'm guessing that they will be Thomas and Marie.

Any help very gratefully received.

Many thanks

Phil Candy

[Philcandy]

<snip>
The wills are interesting. Was it just coincidence that Thomas Selby lived at Boulogne sur Mer, France, where Elizabeth Selby's sister also lived? I don't usually believe in coincidences.

Kind regards

David

I wonder!
Wikipedia
Thomas Selby (1791-1874) was an English cricketer. He was born in Gillingham, Kent, England on the 4th of November, 1791 and died on the 7th of May, 1874 at Boulogne, France. He played on the Kent cricket team from 1839 to 1841.

In 1851 there's a Thomas Selby 59 b Gillingham living in West Malling Kent with wife Maria b Belgium. The same family in 1841 included Thomas 45 solicitor, Marie 35 b Foreign parts, Marie 10, Rose 7 and Alfred 5. Alfred's age ties in with the emigration age.  But I can't see Thomas the younger mentioned in the will.

Hello David

It occurs to me that since Elizabeth's will was written in 1910, and proved in 1912, it couldn't relate to the Thomas SELBY who died in 1874.  So if there's a family link - and I suspect there is - then the Thomas SELBY referred to must be a son of the one who was a cricketer, and probably a brother of Alfred (or at least a half brother)

From various postings, it looks as if Thomas SELBY (1791-1874) may have been married previously and his first wife died, so it's quite possible that Thomas was the son of a previous union.

When Thomas (the cricketer, and putative father of Alfred) died, he left a will, and his executor was apparently his son Thomas of South Kensington (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,536517.msg3905605.html)

If this is right, then Thomas may already have left home by the time of the 1841 Census.

I wonder if this helps?

Phil

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Phil, thanks for your thoughts, which coincide with my take on the situation. The naming in the 1910 will of Thomas Selby of Boulogne and Thomas Selby the younger of Lincolns Inn Fields (ie he was probably a barrister) refers back to an Indenture dated 15 July 1864, so I think the Thomas of Boulogne was the cricketer and the younger Thomas was his son, as you say, either the brother or half brother of Alfred.

I wonder if the baptism of Thomas Selby at St Pancras on 4 Feb 1819, son of Thomas and Louisa Cline Selby, solicitor, might be them. Must work on it! There's a marriage licence dated 24 Sept 1817 for a marriage between Thomas Selby widower of St Clement Danes, Middlesex, and Louisa Cline Coleman, 19, of Hythe, father Edward Coleman gent. If this really is Thomas the cricketer then he appears to have been married three times.

Is Thomas the cricketer your direct line (assuming he was Alfred's father)? I suppose it would take Alfred/Elizabeth's marriage cert to see if Alfred's father was Thomas, a solicitor

His cricket career according to Cricinfo was not illustrious - he played 3 matches for Kent, 6 innings, scored runs 19 runs in total, highest score 17 (which leaves only two runs for the other five innings!)
Full name Thomas Selby
Born November 4, 1791, Gillingham, Kent
Died May 7, 1874, Boulogne, France (aged 82 years 184 days)

David

[alison2763]

Hi Phill,
Here is the death no parents unfortunately 

Alf SELBY d 1918 aged 81 Warrandyte -parents unknown # 15036

regards
Alison

[Philcandy]

Many thanks Alison. I really appreciate the look-up.

Kind regards

Phil

[Big Max]

Hi Phil Candy and other descendants of William Allan. My grandfather was James Harold Allan, a descendant of the three Allan brothers who brought Aberdeen Angus down from NSW to the Warrnambool district, later establishing Allandale Station. I am interested in any further information you can provide about the early Allans.