Swedish Ancestor

[Hogan]

Hi All

Todat i found my ggg Grandfather and he is from Sweden

He is in Liverpool by 1865.

are there any ship records available for ships from Sweden to Liverpool or are there and Swedish genealogy links. i know it is unlikely i will find him in Sweden but worth a try.

Many thanks.

Anthony.

[jorose]

Ship lists from ports in Europe into the UK were not kept, unfortunately.

http://www.cyndislist.com/sweden.htm - here's a big list of links related to Swedish genealogy.

[Hogan]

Thank you Jorose

I shall look through that.

[GreySquirrel]

Don't despair! Swedish family history and emigration records are excellent. You do, however, need to know something about place of origin when the surname is a common patronymic. What name was your ancestor? Was he a mariner? Do you know where he was from, or more precisely when he arrived in UK (is he on 1861 census?)?

Or was he a Brit born in Sweden?

Tell us more and perhaps we can help.

[Andcarred]

Hi Anthony,

I have a Swedish grandfather and was able to track him back to Sweden from Australian because he became a naturalised Australian.  The IGI is very good for Swedish records and there is also a Swedish mailing list with people who will do lookups for you.

If he died in England do your English death certificates give place of birth?

Andcarred

[Milly]

saw this topic about Swedish ancestors and request help with the following, if anyone can suggest where to look.
Charles Richard Rudolf Bailey married in 1866 aged 22. His father is given as Rudolf Nindberg, a potter. On the 1881 and 1891 UK census he is called Rudolf Bailey, born Sweden. So we don't know his mother's name, nor a way to find a birth certificate. Where can I look next?
Milly

[ronbailey]

Milly!!!
Rudolph Nindberg is my ancestor too! and I have hit the same blockage. I have Swedish friends who tell me that Nindberg is an unusual name and who try to persuade me that it ought to be Lindberg but I have the marriage certificate of Charles Richard Rudolph Bailey and the name is very clearly NINDBERG.  I cannot trace the name of CRRB's mother and presume that this is where the surname Bailey comes from?

Are you in the Stoke area?  I now live in Reading in Berkshire.

I have a cryptic clue that you might be able to follow up.
In the 1891 England Census Charles Fred Bailey and Teresa Bailey were under the roof of Richard Geo Bailey and Elizabeth Bailey and are listed as nephew and niece.  Were they staying at the home of their mother's younger brother at the time of this census?  Is Richard Geo Bailey the brother of CRRB's mother?  If he is we may have the first link to the Bailey surname.

I look forward to your comments.
yours
Ron Bailey gggrandson of Rudolph Nindberg!

[jorose]

Hello Ron - I think one of the moderators might split off your and Milly's posts into a new thread at some point.

Some hints: In 1881, "Randolph" Bailey is listed as BS - and also in 1871, where he is listed as Rich. Chas. Randolph Bailey. That suggests he was born

Ron, can you give more information about Richard George from the 1891 census?
And who were the witnesses when C. R. R. married?

There was perhaps some connection between the pottery industry in Burslem and potters in Sweden?

If Richard George Bailey is the one b. around 1860 in Burslem, then he appears with Mary Bailey in 1881 - relationship given as 'other', with her (unmarried) in 1871 (listed as 'son'), her niece Louisa Garrett, 15, in the household, and then in 1861 with 'father' Henry (also unmarried, aged 41), and an older brother Charles (17, listed as b. Burslem but most people are dittoed down). Isaac Garrett, widower, and his daughter Louisa, 5, are living in the same household so it looks as if this might be the same family.

So we have
Henry Bailey (b. abt 1820) and Mary Bailey (b. abt 1819) - siblings? Neither married.
Isaac Garrett (b. abt 1815), may have married a Bailey. His daughter, Louisa (b.  possibly Worcester in abt 1856).
Charles, 'son' of Henry in 1861, b. abt 1847.
Richard George, 'son' of Henry in 1861 and of Mary in 1871, b. abt 1860.

[ronbailey]

Ron, can you give more information about Richard George from the 1891 census?

I have only seen a link to the 1891 census.  I don't have paid access at present.

And who were the witnesses when C. R. R. married?

I have Charles Richard Rudolph pretty well tied down now, although the variations on the order and spelling of his names are legion!
The witnesses were William Henry Walklet, who I know was Theresa's elder brother and head of the house as their mother was a widow at this time,
and Edna Smith, who made her mark, I have no other details of Edna Smith.  Rudolph Nindberg is described as 'potter' on the wedding certificate and most of Burslem were also potters!! The birth of CRRBailey would be c 1844 which is right on target for the Chartist Riots which caused widespread problems especially to workers in the pottery industry.  Did the mother or CRRBailey move to Sweden for work?

Richard George Bailey is the one b. around 1860 in Burslem, then he appears with Mary Bailey in 1881 - relationship given as 'other', with her (unmarried)

This would explain why I can only find references to his birth and death but no 'marriage'.

So we have
Henry Bailey (b. abt 1820) and Mary Bailey (b. abt 1819) - siblings? Neither married.
Isaac Garrett (b. abt 1815), may have married a Bailey. His daughter, Louisa (b.  possibly Worcester in abt 1856).
Charles, 'son' of Henry in 1861, b. abt 1847.
Richard George, 'son' of Henry in 1861 and of Mary in 1871, b. abt 1860.

This is the crux of the matter. Am I looking for a 'sister' to Richard George Bailey (George Richard Bailey) who might be the mother of CRRudolph Bailey?   Or am I looking for a mother for both CRRBailey and GRBailey?

If Richard George Bailey is the one b. around 1860 in Burslem, then he appears with Mary Bailey in 1881 - relationship given as 'other', with her (unmarried) in 1871 (listed as 'son'), her niece Louisa Garrett, 15, in the household, and then in 1861 with 'father' Henry (also unmarried, aged 41), and an older brother Charles (17, listed as b. Burslem but most people are dittoed down). Isaac Garrett, widower, and his daughter Louisa, 5, are living in the same household so it looks as if this might be the same family.

If Charles was 17 in 1861 he was born in 1844 could this be Charles Richard Rudolph. CRRBailey doesn't appear (to me) on anything earlier than his wedding certificate. 

Can you create a scenario from all this?  Miss X Bailey (was this Mary?) returns from Sweden c1844 with a child who is absorbed into her 'family' and takes on the family name of Bailey? Mary's brother Henry functions as the 'father' figure.  In 1860 Richard George is born to Mary Bailey.  There is a birth certificate existing which might confirm this.  Again Henry functions as 'father' in the family and brings up both Charles Richard Rudolph AND Richard George who are, in fact, half brothers. (a natural father for Richard George might appear on the birth certificate)

What do you think?

many thanks for your contribution
yours
Ron Bailey