Author Topic: Anyone fancy a challenge? Herbert Lake  (Read 5489 times)

Offline alligator18

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Anyone fancy a challenge? Herbert Lake
« on: Friday 05 December 08 17:58 GMT (UK) »
For the past few years I have been trying to trace my great grandafther Herbert LAKE, but haven't been particularly successful. So I thought I would call on the expertise of the people in these forums.

I have a copy of his service record: (For some reason his name is listed as Hubert)
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/l/a/m/Allison-Lambourn/PHOTO/0015photo.html

I also have a copy of his marriage certificate:
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/l/a/m/Allison-Lambourn/PHOTO/0003photo.html

He also spent some time in prison:
http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=def1-6-19130204&div=t19130204-6#highlight

The problems start as apparently he was born Herbert HALL in Cornwall. His father moved away from Cornwall to London and changed their name to LAKE, leaving behind his mother. The mother was of Spanish decent. All of this information is from my great-aunt, so no evidence to back it up. My grandad has his doubts about Herberts father being called 'Claud'. But why put that on the certificate if it's not true?

I can just find nothing regarding his birth, or wherabouts on the 1901 census. I would really love to find him and be able to track the Lake/Hall name back further.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  :)
Lambourn, Lake, White, Osborne, Pottinger, Cuthbert, Lover, Feaks, Hitch, Dance, Stacey, Jones, Pitt, Neale

Offline Thamesite2017

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Re: Anyone fancy a challenge? Herbert Lake
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 07 December 08 02:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Thre is A HERBERT CHARLES HALL at FreeBMD reg Sep Qtr Penzance..closest for the dates given
but sadly just checked 191 census and his parents are JOhn and Sarah..so that one at least can be eliminated

BYe
Althea

Offline alligator18

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Re: Anyone fancy a challenge? Herbert Lake
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 09 December 08 12:34 GMT (UK) »
Thanks. I think I'm just going to give up he is impossible to trace back!!!  :'(
Lambourn, Lake, White, Osborne, Pottinger, Cuthbert, Lover, Feaks, Hitch, Dance, Stacey, Jones, Pitt, Neale

Offline Necromancer

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Re: Anyone fancy a challenge? Herbert Lake
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 09 December 08 12:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi Alligator - must admit its a tough one - have had a couple of stabs since you first posted it, and have got nowhere !

Keep searching .... as more and more resources come online, something may turn up  :)
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Offline alligator18

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Re: Anyone fancy a challenge? Herbert Lake
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 09 December 08 13:47 GMT (UK) »
Thanks. Hopefully the 1911 census might give me some clues when that's released.  :)

Lambourn, Lake, White, Osborne, Pottinger, Cuthbert, Lover, Feaks, Hitch, Dance, Stacey, Jones, Pitt, Neale

Offline alligator18

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Re: Anyone fancy a challenge? Herbert Lake
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 09 December 08 13:53 GMT (UK) »
Here are some extracts from the emails my Grandad has been sending me about Herbert.

hear are some extracts from sis's letter Al     ' As far as I can work out Gol ( this was my sisters pet name for me ).    the old man starte life in Cornwallround about 1888, his surname then was Hall - his mother was of spanish descent and he said she was very beautiful and modelled for various artists, however, she had no time for Dad and treated him pretty badly.  there were two other offspring but dad always referred to them as 'his half brother and sister '.  These two are a bit of a mystery, I never found out whether they were older or younger than the old man ! .The boy Roland became an artist and migrated to Australia - Florrie the girl married and I never found out what became of her eventually , I believe dad still had some contact with her up until he joined up for the Great war.'  Al,   the letter goes on and apparently relatives of the old man owned The Tilling bus company, and the grandfather owned land in Farnham.  As sister wrote "  the buggers must have spent all the money when you and I arrived on the scene "  Sisters' letter goes on     " Dad arrived home unexpectedly one day and found his mother had other talents beside modelling and was entertaining a few ' suitors' on the side,   his father had also found out the bitter truth and decided to take his son away from it all.    Dad's father then changed his son's name too Lake and set up his own dairy business in London .....................   Well Al,  there is much more but, I won't bore you any further today   so, hope it's of interest if nothing else   G'd  xx


Dear AL,         Yes, the Lake family seems to be shrouded in mystery. I repeat half of what I know , or think I know, could still be a bit wide of the mark.    The truth is  I can never recall talking to my father about roots and to be honest , I never had much interest until of course it was too late.  I grew up without any uncles, aunts, or grandparents, the only family that I was aware of was simply my mother and father,   sad innit ?.  I do rember though, my mother taking me when I was very young possibly 3 to 4 years old to visit her mother. As I recall she seemed a nice , gentle old lady I believe she died not long after that.  According to my mother, the old lady was born in the county Down , northern Ireland.    I do remember that my mother was always singing the old Irish songs, songs that I can remember even today.   It was my mother who intimated that my father's real name was Hall,    but the why's and when's  I do not know.   Herbert Lake joined the Navy about 1907/8  he deserted in Kuala Lumpa, Malaya around  1912  ,eventually arriving back in U.K. 1913.  He then apparently joined the Hussars,   the cavalry,  and in 1914 when hostility's broke out was shipped to France as part of the 'old contemptables' army.   He served till 1919 was wounded three times,   he had terrible wounds to his legs that he'd show you if he was drunk enough.  He did try to get a pension for a wound to the head but was turned down because " the bullet to the skull did not penetrate the brain ".    I still have the letter from the War Pensions dept.   The Navy caught up with him after the war and dismissed him for being no further use to them .  I still have that letter.........Strangely  the use of the name Lake was used in both letters  ..Ponder,  Ponder...  To end,  in 1940  the old reprobate joined the merchant service at the age of 50  and was eventually bombed on a ship going through the dover straits which at that time was dubbed 'E-boat alley '.   he came through that missing a front tooth....but that is another story..     Shows you Al.      you cannot keep  a good Lake er  er  Hall   down or whatever..    Hope this proves some interest....though for the life of me  I can't think why ..............G'Dad x
Lambourn, Lake, White, Osborne, Pottinger, Cuthbert, Lover, Feaks, Hitch, Dance, Stacey, Jones, Pitt, Neale

Offline avm228

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Re: Anyone fancy a challenge? Herbert Lake
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 09 December 08 14:16 GMT (UK) »
What lovely emails!  Lots of clues in there which, you never know, might open the door to Herbert's past.

Here's a start: the Tilling bus company (which was a London outfit) was run by the Tilling family for the whole of the relevant period.  I wonder whether they had Hall/Lake (or Spanish) relatives?

http://www.20thcenturylondon.org.uk/server.php?show=conInformationRecord.240

Anna (who loves a challenge :D)

Modified: slight caveat to this is that, according to the site I linked to, the business was incorporated as a public company in 1897.  That will have meant that a lot of people (not necessarily connected in any way to the Tilling family) will have acquired shares in the company...
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline alligator18

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Re: Anyone fancy a challenge? Herbert Lake
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 09 December 08 14:53 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the link. I've managed to find the Tilling family on ancestry, so I will have a play around and see if I can find any connection  :)
Lambourn, Lake, White, Osborne, Pottinger, Cuthbert, Lover, Feaks, Hitch, Dance, Stacey, Jones, Pitt, Neale

Offline Necromancer

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Re: Anyone fancy a challenge? Herbert Lake
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 09 December 08 15:23 GMT (UK) »
Brilliant emails  :)
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk