Author Topic: Mary DeRome b. 1796 Kendal to Elizabeth DeRome  (Read 7033 times)

Offline NNR

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Mary DeRome b. 1796 Kendal to Elizabeth DeRome
« on: Friday 21 February 14 10:11 GMT (UK) »
My ancestor, Mary DeRome was baptised at Kendal RC to Elizabeth DeRome in 1796. Seemingly, this record has disappeared from familysearch (which is where I found it a few years ago).

I was wondering whether anyone had access to any other sources that could convince me that this record did exist after all! I seem to remember there being a probably sibling listed, too.

I never did find any probably baptismal dates for the mother, either...
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Offline WolfieSmith

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Re: Mary DeRome b. 1796 Kendal to Elizabeth DeRome
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 23 February 14 08:49 GMT (UK) »
There is a baptism in 1786. Its in Latin, but roughly translated :

Mary (Maria in Latin), illegitimate daughter of Eliz Derom, born 17 August 1786, baptized 25 September. Sponsors Paul and Eleanor Derom.

Alan.
Northumberland - Smith, Willis,
Durham - Rogerson, Child
Cumberland - Irving, Hill
North Yorkshire - Layfield,
Ireland - Collins

Offline NNR

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Re: Mary DeRome b. 1796 Kendal to Elizabeth DeRome
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 23 February 14 19:53 GMT (UK) »
Alan,

  Not only have you managed to get past my 1796/1786 mistake, and translated from the Latin, but you've provided me with sponsor names I'd never heard before. Hopefully these will provide a clue as to Elizabeth's parentage.

A quick question, tho. Assuming you have these records at your disposal, who are the sponsors for the 1789 baptism of Peter (Petrus) Derome (to his mother, again, a single 'Elizabeth')? I'd always wondered if this chap.was Mary's brother or not.

Many, many thanks for what you've already provided tho!
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin

Offline NNR

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Re: Mary DeRome b. 1796 Kendal to Elizabeth DeRome
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 23 February 14 21:02 GMT (UK) »
Partly as a note to myself, but there was an Anna Derome born in 1779 to...Paul and Eleanor Derome. Presumably the same two who sponsored Elizabeth's daughter. Can't find any baptismal likelihoods for Paul or Elizabeth to suggest a link, tho. But I believe there weren't records kept pre 1760 or so...
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin


Offline WolfieSmith

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Re: Mary DeRome b. 1796 Kendal to Elizabeth DeRome
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 01 March 14 13:56 GMT (UK) »
Peter, illegitimate son of Eliz Derom. Born 27 March 1789, baptized 29 April. Sponsors Paul and Eleonora Derom.

I suspect Paul and Eleonor are Elizabeth's parents.

There is a baptism of a Maria, daughter of Paul and Helena Durham in 1766. Sponsors Matthew and Maria Durham. Records start in 1762.

Familysearch has a marriage of a Paul Derom and Elllin Jackson, Heversham, Westmorland, 24 June 1758.

Also a burial of a Paul Derom, Kendal, 7 Oct 1807 aged 74.

Also a burial of a Peter Dirom, Kendal, 14 July 1795, aged 6, son of Eliz Dirom.

There is a marriage of a Mary Derom and a George Coulton, Kendal, 26 May 1806.

They have several children baptized at the Catholic Chapel and Eliz. Derom/Derome is a Sponsor on most of them.

Alan.
Northumberland - Smith, Willis,
Durham - Rogerson, Child
Cumberland - Irving, Hill
North Yorkshire - Layfield,
Ireland - Collins

Offline NNR

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Re: Mary DeRome b. 1796 Kendal to Elizabeth DeRome
« Reply #5 on: Monday 03 March 14 16:13 GMT (UK) »
Alan,

  Thanks for the latest - very, very useful stuff.

  I suspect, like you, that Paul and Eleanor are Elizabeth's parents, especially given the burial for Paul in 1807 (with a suspected birth of 1733. However, such a date wouldn't tie in with the baptism of Elizabeth, above, in 1747.

  I notice a burial of an Ellen Derome in Kendal in June 1813 (aged 79). Is there any more info available on that?

I also noticed that on the familysearch website there are the following baptisms given at 'Kendal RC'. Obviously they fall before the time when records are officially meant to have started. Do you know anything more about these?

Matthew Derome christening:    5 September 1742    
Richard Derome christening:    15 April 1744    
Elizabeth Derome Christening Date    20 Apr 1747
Thomas Derome christening:    21 December 1748    
Mary Derome christening:    12 October 1750    
James Derome christening:    1 April 1754    

  To my mind this would have something to do with the following NA entry:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=024-wdfcrc1&cid=-1#-1

Register of births, with earlier entries relating to Derome family 1742-1754, transcribed by Father Thomas Wilkinson in 1840 (from original now in Public Record Office, ref. RG4/3928).  WDFCRC 1/1/1  [1762-1840]

  but I was wondering if you have any other info, given you seem to have access to the records...?

  George Coulton is Mary Derome's eventual husband. Are you able to offer any witnesses to their May 1806 marriage?

  Finally, you mentioned Elizabeth Derom appears as a sponsor on 'most of' their children's baptisms. Can you let me know which ones, and also who (especially other Deromes) appear as sponsors on the rest of them? I know this is quite a big ask, but I've never come across anyone with access to these sources before...

28/1/1807 Anna
16/12/1808 Gulielmus
03/1812 Gulielmus
14/11/1814 Johannes
7/5/1817 Georgius
11/08/1819 Joannes
9/9/1823 Elleanor
29/9/1826 George
22/2/1829 Mary
31/12/1830 Mary
14/8/1833 George

  Many, *many* thanks for anything you're able to provide me with!

    Stephen
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin

Offline WolfieSmith

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Re: Mary DeRome b. 1796 Kendal to Elizabeth DeRome
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 09 March 14 08:30 GMT (UK) »
Stephen,

Coulton baptisms :

Anna      1807   Sponsor – Elizabeth Derome
William   1808   Sponsor – Elizabeth Derome
William    1812   Sponsors – Richard Derome & Elizabeth Derome
John      1814   Sponsors – Tobias Derome & Maria Derome
George   1817   Sponsor – Elizabeth Derome
John      1819   Sponsor – Elizabeth Derome
Elleanor    1823   Sponsor – Elizabeth Derome

The four later baptisms are at Kendal Holy Trinity. I think you want to be looking for a burial of Elizabeth Derome some time between 1823 and 1826. I don’t have access to their records (other than Familysearch), so no help with the marriages, baptisms and burials there. The RC records 1762 onwards are on Ancestry by the way. I have access from another source but the same images are on Ancestry, just not as easy to search.

There are lots of Deromes in the Kendal RC records, I don’t think the 1747 one on Familysearch is necessarily your Elizabeth. Maybe either a sister, cousin or niece of Paul.

Alan.
Northumberland - Smith, Willis,
Durham - Rogerson, Child
Cumberland - Irving, Hill
North Yorkshire - Layfield,
Ireland - Collins

Offline Telinlethaed

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Re: Mary DeRome b. 1796 Kendal to Elizabeth DeRome
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 12 March 14 18:09 GMT (UK) »
GEORGE & MARY COULSTON

Kendal Mercury, Saturday, 05 Jun 1841, page 3
George Coulston, a gentleman who has figured at this office 33 times for various acts of misconduct was introduced to the Bench by the Superintendent, who said Coulston came to the office in the morning, drunk, and troublesome, and refused to leave, and therefore he was detained. Admonished and discharged.

Mary Coulton, wife of George Coulton, was charged by Hannah, wife of William Allen, with assaulting her at her own door on the 29th of May. Fined 1s, and 10s. costs. Paid.

[These Allens are the next-door neighbours of your George & Mary in the 1841 census.]

++++

[The following two articles reference George & Mary's son, I'm assuming by the age on the 1841 census.]

Kendal Mercury, Saturday, 10 Jan 1846, page 3
A lad of the name of Jacob Henderson, was brought up from a former hearing, on charge of having seriously injured another boy of the name of Geo. Coulton. It appears that Henderson had met with the lad and had wantonly thrown him down and rubbed his face over with some wet lime, the consequence of which was, that the little fellow has lost the use of one eye altogether, and it is doubtful whether he will regain the use of the other. He was unable to attend before the magistrates, being ill in bed.

Henderson's father [Christopher, by the 1841 census], who was present, was asked what he could do to compensate the father of the child.

He replied he could do nothing. he had sent ihm a shilling, which had been refused.

The magistrates said that is was very properly refuesd, while the affair was in process before them.

After some consultation, the father was told that they had power to inflict a fine of 10 pounds upon him, and but for consideration of his circumstances, they would do so. They were, however, of opinion that he should pay the boy who had been thuswantonly deprived of the means of support for life, and of raising himself up to a creditable position in society, which, from his character, there was every reason to believe the would be enabled to do, the sum of 2s a week for half a year.

Henderson said he could not do it; but he was allowed till the next sitting of the magistrates, on Thursday, to consider about it and see what arrangements he could make for the purpose.


Westmorland Gazette, Saturday, 16 May 1846, page 3
DEATHS
In Stricklandgate, George Coulton, aged 13 years. The deceased is the same unofrtunate boy who lost his sight a short time ago in consequence of another boy throwing a quantity of lime into his eyes.

Offline NNR

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Re: Mary DeRome b. 1796 Kendal to Elizabeth DeRome
« Reply #8 on: Monday 24 March 14 16:12 GMT (UK) »
Alan,

 Thanks - as ever - for the research. Excellent stuff.

 I'm with you on the 1747 Elizabeth not being 'mine'. You've really opened up my possibilities with this research though. Huge thanks for that.
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin