Author Topic: The problem with Ambrose Heal, born about 1830  (Read 2172 times)

Offline thetowers

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The problem with Ambrose Heal, born about 1830
« on: Sunday 09 November 14 08:29 GMT (UK) »
One of my relatives has asked me to look at the problem of Ambrose Heal, born about 1830, who was a soldier in the British Army for about 20 years.

This chap appears to have been born about 1830, although his parents didn't get around to having him baptised until Christmas Day, 1834.    His parents appear to have been John Heale ( or Heal, or Hale, or Hall ),  and his wife Mary,  family name unknown.  His parents appear to have had seven children,  including a brother Henry born in 1820 [  whose baptism has been transcribed as Hall ],   and a sister Martha Amelia born in 1826,  who subsequently appears as Amelia.  This family was from Bradford-on-Avon near Bath.

He appears as Ambrous Heal, aged 10, in the 1841 census.

He joined the Army,  in Middlesex, on 14 March 1851,   claiming to be born in Liverpool.  He appears two weeks later at Plymouth in the census as a soldier,   claiming to be born in Liverpool.  In the 1861 military census he is in Malta.   In the 1871 census he is at the barracks in Gillingham Kent  and still claims he was born in Liverpool.  In 1872 he was discharged  and said he planned to reside at Monmouth.

In 1881 he is back in the hamlet of Turley near Bradford-on-Avon,  aged 50,  living with his brother Henry, who was a retired schoolteacher,  aged 61,  and his sister Amelia aged 56,  and his occupation is listed as Chelsea pensioner and his birthplace listed as Turley Wiltshire. Henry appears in a couple of censuses in Worcestershire as a school teacher, and apparently returned to his home village when he retired - or inherited his father's house.

In 1891 these three are still there in Turley aged 70, 64 and 61, and his occupation is listed as retired soldier, claimed to be born in Bradford.

In 1901 only Henry and Amelia are left.  Henry died in 1905, aged 85  and Amelia in 1922, aged 97.

It appears that Ambrose' death occurred in the second quarter of 1896,   recorded at Bradford Wiltshire, vol 5a p 65,  although in the index it says he was 56,  and it would seem that he would have been 66 years old.  There were only about 6 individuals in Britain with the name Ambrose Heal in the 19th century,  and it doesn't appear that it could be one of the others.

So what is going on here ?   Were there two Ambrose Heal's the same age in the Army ?  If there really was two of them,  how come they never both appear in any census ?















Offline Milliepede

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Re: The problem with Ambrose Heal, born about 1830
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 09 November 14 11:55 GMT (UK) »
I think it's all the same person who, for whatever reason, gave different birthplaces along the way.
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos

Offline majm

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Re: The problem with Ambrose Heal, born about 1830
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 09 November 14 21:54 GMT (UK) »
In 1891 these three are still there in Turley aged 70, 64 and 61, and his occupation is listed as retired soldier, claimed to be born in Bradford.
 If there really was two of them,  how come they never both appear in any census ?

Towers, 

As far as I understand, the 1891 UK census records available online were prepared by the various enumerators, based on forms submitted by the head of the household at the various addresses.
   
 :) So, was your Ambrose the head of the household?  (Basically, did Ambrose state his place of birth in 1891, or was that info from others …….)   

 :) Is it likely that the enumerator has simply ‘lost where he was up to’ when transferring the information across to the enumerator copy….. (Check the previous household, were they recorded by the enumerator as born Bradford?  Check the next household, were they recorded as born Bradford? )

Cheers,  JM


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Offline Milliepede

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Re: The problem with Ambrose Heal, born about 1830
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 09 November 14 22:34 GMT (UK) »
All 3 of them have the same birthplace Bradford Wilts in 1891.  Could this be Bradford on Avon? *

Brother Henry is head with Ambrose brother and Amelia sister.

* In 1871 Henry and Amelia birthplace Bradford on Avon.
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos


Offline thetowers

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Re: The problem with Ambrose Heal, born about 1830
« Reply #4 on: Monday 10 November 14 04:13 GMT (UK) »
Bradford Wiltshire is the same as Bradford-on-Avon.    But not the same as Bradford Yorkshire.  Or Liverpool.

Winsley is a village about 2 miles from Bradford-on-Avon and Turley is an even smaller village with about 8 houses about half a mile from Winsley  and both were originally in the Bradford parish which was very large before it was changed.  I'm not very concerned about the inconsistency of them being said to have been born at any of these three places.

In 1861 and 1871 Henry lived in Worcestershire.  Where did you find Amelia in 1871 ?

Offline thetowers

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Re: The problem with Ambrose Heal, born about 1830
« Reply #5 on: Monday 10 November 14 04:36 GMT (UK) »
In 1881,  they have gone to the trouble to specifically say that Henry was born in Winsley and Ambrose in Turley and Amelia in Winsley. 

Meanwhile some of the people in the next house were born at Turleigh which is the modern spelling of the same place.

Offline Milliepede

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Re: The problem with Ambrose Heal, born about 1830
« Reply #6 on: Monday 10 November 14 10:28 GMT (UK) »
The trouble with Bradford is you automatically assume it's Yorkshire don't you, at least I do and I'm from Wiltshire myself!
It doesn't actually say "Bradford Yorks" anywhere for him does it?

Quote
Where did you find Amelia in 1871 ?

Amelia is with Henry in 1871 Worcestershire. 
Hinchliffe - Huddersfield Wiltshire
Burroughs - Arlingham Glos
Pick - Frocester Glos

Offline thetowers

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Re: The problem with Ambrose Heal, born about 1830
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 11 November 14 00:56 GMT (UK) »
The name of the registration district there usually seems to appear as "Bradford W.".