Difficulty finding parents/early life of James McIntosh, b. 1867 d. 1944

[MonicaL]

It wasn't mistranscribed...just my human error  He certainly showed as a visitor in 1891, not nephew.

Wishful thinking on my part for you maybe 

Monica

[MonicaL]

Just adding this as thoughts to try and help....

I did a search for 1881 for a James born c. 1867 in Elgin who may already be showing as an apprentice joiner, and I found one!

I think this is a summary on him, from what I can see:

James Thomson or Murdoch (as indexed), likely the illegitimate son of a James Murdoch and a Margaret Thomson born in late 1866 in Elgin https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FQ2K-Z54

There is a marriage between a Margaret Thomson and a Hugh Fraser in 1870 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYSX-78Z

1871 shows Hugh and Margaret here:
Hugh Fraser 27 Joiner House b. Rafford
Margaret Fraser 23 Joiner House Wife b. Elgin
James Thomson 27, lodger, joiner b. Elgin
Geo Thomson 19, lodger, labourer b. Elgin
Address: 41 Church St, Dumbarton

I think this is young James with maternal grandparents for 1871:

Alexander Thompson 57 crofter b. Aberdeen
Margaret Thompson 57 b. Cromarty, rossshire
Jessie Thompson 17 b. Elgin
James MacDoch (as transcribed, likely meant to be Murdoch) 4 grandchild b. Elgin
Address: Milton Duff, Elgin

1881:
Hugh Fraser 37, Joiner Employing 1 Boy, b. Rafford, Moraysh.
Maggie Fraser 33, b. Elgin, Moraysh.
James Fraser 14, son, Joiner (Apprentice) b. Elgin
George Fraser 7, son b. Partick, Lanarkshire
Address: 24 Church Street, Partick, Govan, Lanarkshire

1891...and no sign of James in household, which I am viewing as a good sign for now!:
Hugh Fraser 40, Hatter & Clothier, b. Rafford Clothier
Maggie T Fraser 37, dressmaker b. Milton Duffy, Elgin
Annie Fraser 20, niece b. Forres, Elgin
George Fraser 17 son, Druggist, b. Partick
Alexander Grant 18 nephew Boatyard Slipper b. Aberdeen
Address: 481 Dumbarton Rd, Partick, Govan, Lanarkshire

That is as far as I have got....

Monica

[MonicaL]

I might as well finish on the censuses for this crew!

A number of changes to occupation for Hugh Fraser. 1901 has this entry:

Hugh Frazer 57 Insurance Agent b. Rafford, Morayshire
Maggie Frazer 53 b. Elgin, Morayshire
Jean Frazer 13 niece b. Glasgow
Agnes Frazer 43 visitor b. Morton, dumfrieshire
Address: 481 Dumbarton Rd, Partick, Govan, Lanarkshire

And also, young George, now married by 1901:

George Fraser 26 Life Insurance Agent b. Govan
Jessie Fraser 26 b. Aberdeen
James Mcpherson 25 boarder b. Ireland
Address: 99 Hozier St, Partick Govan

Monica

[MonicaL]

Am I right in thinking from what I have seen that this is the list of children, in order, for James and Mary McDonald following their 1892 marriage?

I have made some (quite a few  ) guesses to see whether with the new info, we could get the children's names to fit Scottish naming pattern (see for example here http://myweb.wyoming.com/~msaban/SCTname.htm). My notes on the side are simple guesses.

George...for his father if McIntosh....or for his brother if Fraser?
Mary...for Mary McIntosh, Mary McDonald's mother?
James...for him...or his father Murdoch?
Marjory...?
Donald...for Mary McDonald's father?
Margaret...for James Fraser's mother and/or maternal grandmother?
Alexander ...for James Fraser's maternal grandfather or Mary's who was also called Alexander McIntosh I believe?
Hector...?
Christina...?
Edward...?

Were any surnames used at registrations or in later years as middles names for any of the above that might help now?

To make all this fit and explain why James adopted a new identity away from Fraser/Thomson etc, there would have to have been a big falling out between James and family between 1881-91.

As I said though from the beginning, all guesses and speculation really 

Monica

[Ruskie]

I have nothing to add, but would just like to congratulate you Monica for such great detective work! Calmasis will be thrilled! 

[MonicaL]

Me thinks I have guessed & speculated too many times...or more than I normally feel comfortable with! I spent some time again this am, likely everybody, trying to find a trace of James b. 1867 Elgin. This is the only thing I can see, but that doesn't make it right necessarily 

Monica

[Ruskie]

Speculation perhaps, but still, the information looks tempting.  Plenty for Calmasis to consider anyway. 

[Calmasis]

MonicaL: Wow! That's amazing. Thank you for putting so much effort into this. I looked into it, and
unfortunately I found a record of death for a James Thomson/Murdoch aged 68 in Aberdeen in 1938, so I'm assuming he's not my James.

The thought that he might have changed his name is an excellent idea & not one that I'd considered. Assuming he was born in Moray, it's quite a move to Perth, which would fit if he'd run away from home. I'm planning on asking my grandmother if she can tell me anything about James. He died when she was quite young, but she might be able to remember something, and if he did run away from home he might have mentioned it to someone.


I'm assuming that James & Mary didn't follow the traditional naming pattern. Here's the list of their children I have:

George McIntosh (after James' dad?)
Mary McIntosh (after Mary)
James McIntosh (after James)
Hamish McIntosh
Marjory McIntosh (after Mary's mum)
Donald McIntosh (after Mary's dad)
Margaret McIntosh (after Mary's sister)
Alaster McIntosh
Hector McIntosh
Christina McIntosh (after Mary's sister)

As you can see, the names don't really match up with the traditional naming pattern. But the names of James' children being potentially indicative of James' family is something else I hadn't considered, and which could be really helpful. Thank you!

[MonicaL]

  ....see, imagination running wild! We nearly had an obit written up for him 

I tried to find James Thomson b. Elgin in later censuses but failed, to try and eliminate him. Guess the death cert you have found from 1938 was fairly conclusive match to his birth details from what you say.

Onwards and upwards!

Monica