HOCKIN of Phillack/Camborne

[RanR]

I have been researching my family tree for some years now and started with my maiden name HOSKEN – Cornish and a lot of it in Phillack.  I kept tripping over all the HOCKIN records and avoided them as we have always thought that the spelling difference needed to be fairly precise to get the right families.  However, it seems that I am descended from the HOCKIN family after all but via another route.

 My 2x great grandparents were RICHARD HOSKEN of Loggans Mill & HTP (HOSKEN TREVITHICK & POLKINGHORNE) fame and CAROLINE DONNITHORNE (6th cousin of the infamous Miss ELIZA EMILY DONNITHORNE who was supposed to have been the inspiration for Dickens’ Miss Havisham in ‘Great Expectations’).  Caroline was born c. 1817 in Phillack to JAMES DONNITHORNE & GRACE ROWE.  Grace was born c. 1774 to RICHARD ROWE and GRACE HOCKEN who were married 1772 in Phillack.

 This is where I need someone to check my theory for me and put me right or tell me what to look at to get on the right track – please!

Phillack OPC records online at GENUKI – Phillack give GRACE HOCKYN’s baptism as 20/2/1733 to JOHN & HONOUR.  JOHN would appear to have married HONOUR RICHARDS 10/2/1728 at Illogan (IGI batch numbers M052801)

I’m reasonably ok with that but not 100% sure of this next bit.

I found OPC records online showing that a JOHN HOCKIN was baptised to JOHN & KATHERINE 24/3/1706 in Phillack.  If that is the right record for Grace’s father John’s baptism, then I’m hoping that the marriage of a JOHN HOCKYN to KATHERINE HARRIS 10/6/1704 in Phillack (OPC online records) is also correct for his parents.

This next bit is where I’m making an enormous leap in the dark.

I’m hoping that there is a chance that the JOHN HOCKYN (& variants) who married KATHERINE HARRIS could be the older son of JOHN HOCKIN & ALICE HARRY (married 18/1/1667 or 1668 ‘Old Calendar’? in Camborne)?  An LDS member has put a record on IGI for a John being baptised 10/11/1673 in Camborne to John & Alice Hockin (nee Harry).  If this is correct then I would like to hazard a guess that John who married Katherine Harris who could be my 6 x Gt grandfather, could be the older brother of the THOMAS HOCKIN who married MIRIAM ELLIS who has several entries on various websites concerning the Grant of Arms given to his son by Queen Anne (and therefore the son of a certain John the Hurler that is mentioned on some webpages concerning Hockin family research – he of Gwithian/Godrevy and Calaene). 

Does that mean that John the Hurler is my 7 X Gt. Grandfather?

Does that mean that it was my 5x Gt grandfather John (who married Honour) is the person that the ‘Hockin’s Home page’ website (run by Dave Hockin) mentions as purchasing in 1754 the living of the rectory at Phillack for 3 generations?  If so, please can you tell me how as I haven’t yet managed to get the Rev William Hockin’s ancestors tied down yet – I had thought that he was married to Peggy Williams in Madron 1803 (marriage license purchased) or 1804, and then born to William and Elizabeth (nee Curnow) who might have been born to William & Grace of Gwithian who had lots of children there but that’s all very vague and probably very wrong!!

I've tried e-mailing Dave Hockin (or the Hockin homepages website) but have received no reply (as well as most of the other contacts mentioned on his homepage).  As you can see, I'm in a bit of a muddle and am getting brain ache from all of the JOHN HOCKINs that are mentioned in the records for the area.  If anyone has any information about all of this, I would be very pleased to receive your help.  Also (just as an aside) my son is keen to know whether we are allowed to carry the coat of arms mentioned on all fo the Hockin websites!!.

Many thanks for reading all of this and hoping someone is able to help.

[toni*]

you have to go with what you know to be true
you someone has submitted and IGI entry for  John being baptised 10/11/1673 in Camborne to John & Alice Hockin (nee Harry). 
can you check the actual PR's yourself?

are there any more Johns in the vicinity in which case its a case of following them and  ruling all the others out

do you belong to CFHS they may be able to help you further they have a larger database than what is online.

muddypuddy on here has a lot of fiches for Cornwall and a fiche reader so it may be worth PMing her and asking her if she can look up the exact date / place you are after and see if it shows anything although she may not necessarily have teh Camborne fiche.

good luck

[krisesjoint]

Hi Ran,

Sorry I don't have the time to really study all this at the moment but just continuing with what Toni has picked up on from your post. I would like to mention that Johns baptism has been transcribed and is available on the Camborne site -  father only is listed at baptism which is quite common at this time. The Camborne site is very comprehensive. 

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~camborneopc/

Cheers Kris 

[RanR]

Thnak you both very much indeed.  I will give muddypuddy a go as well.

I'm a bit too far away to get to Cornwall myself - if anyone wants to trade Cornwall record office etc lookups, I can always do Wiltshire ones as I live 15 minutes walk from the new Wilts & History Centre in Chippenham!  As Chippenham OPC for Wilts OPC site, I can also do St. Paul's Chippenham & St. Nicholas Hardenhuish PRs from home!

I'll check out the Camborne site thank you. All suggestions & help much appreciated.

[krisesjoint]

Hi Ran,

It would be lovely if you are are able to help out with Wiltshire Record Office Lookups 

Hope you have had some luck with the Camborne site.

Be sure to check the Cornwall Resources Board, there are many excellent parish sites

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,52054.0.html

Caroline DONNITHORNE was baptised 28 Dec 1817 Phillack parents James and Grace.

James DONITHORNE of Plymouth = Grace ROWE by Licence 18 May 1796 Phillack

There is the marriage you mention of Richard Rowe and Grace Hockin in Phillack 13 Sep 1772 (I only see a baptism for son Richard 12 Jan 1777)

I noted a baptism of Grace ROWE 27 Mar 1774 Phillack parents Edward and Grace

They also had a son Edward baptised 22 July 1770.

Edit-Further checking does show Grace’s Father is Richard. I see the Phillack site lists him as Richard although both IGI Extracted record and CFHS suggest Edward. 

I now find there were settlement examination of Richard and his brother Edward (Edward = Alice ARTHUR in Crowan and had one son their before moving to Phillack.) This examination lists Richards Children as Grace and Richard.

http://crocat.cornwall.gov.uk/DServe/searchpage.htm

These chaps are certainly not upper class. Looks like brothers possibly Edward b 1741 and Richard 1744 in Camborne – sons of Edward (Looks like Edward Rowe and Jone Sampson 17 Feb 1734

Now as to your question re the right to carry and bear arms - I would say your son would not likely have a legal entitlement to the arms. The right to bear arms was established centuries ago when the Heralds visited the counties detailing the pedigrees of the gentry and establishing who had the right to bear arms. The families had to prove they were entitlement to these arms either by grant or by long term use. These pedigrees recorded the descent of the entitlement to arms. What was required was a line of descent from oldest son to eldest son. If there were no male heirs a daughters sons may under certain circumstances be given right to the bear the arms (and may by special dispensation be able to carry the arms of their mothers family along with those of their father) - For this to happen their father must also have the right to bear arms) The College of Arms are responsible for administering this. 

Cheers Kris 

[RanR]

Thank you so much for this.  I have ordered the settlement examinations & also the will of a certain Honor Hockin.  These settlement examinations together with the Phillack & Camborne OPC pages of records are beginning to make my Grace's parents more & more liekly to be Richard Rowe & Grace Hockin.  Even the ages of the people in the census returns and ages on their deaths (not to mention the ages of Richard & Grace's children in the settlement examination) seem to point to it more & more.  Interesting to note as well that no mention in Edward's settlement examination is made of any daughter called Grace at that point - 1786.  I'm hoping that this will work towards completing 1 of the 3 links needed in the chain.

As far as the other links are concerned (once I have established that my Grace Donnithorne nee Rowe is actually the daughter of Richard rather than Edward Rowe), I would dearly love Honor's will to mention her duaghter Grace as Mrs Rowe, to provide another of the 3 links in the chain.  This would begin to take me back through the generations to the more established lines of ancestry already proven.

The only link left after that is to make certain that the John Hockyn who marreid Katherine Harris is the son of John Hockin & Alice Harry & is also the brother of the Thomas Hockin who was given permission to bear arms.

By the way, thank you for explaining the coat of arms business.  That was really clear & helpful.  I'm not too bothered by the shattering news that I can't bear arms.  I've already had the same blow on the Hosken side as well because I don't seem to have come from the Cubert clan of the family (they also have a coat of arms)!

I think things might be tricky because there appears to have been another Richard Rowe around.  I've ordered his will as well just to eliminate him from my enquiries!  I think though that these settlement examinations are really quite improtant and the fact that there is just the one entry in the Phillack records for Edward & Grace having any child baptised at the right sort of time for such a couple to father my Grace Rowe:
Edward Rowe son of Edward & Grace baptised Phillack 22/7/1770. 

The rest of the  appropriately timed baptism entries all mention either Edward & Alice or Richard & Grace.  It only seems to be IGI that says that my Grace's father was Edward rather than Richard (especially when you consider the ages in the census returns & death records match Richard & Grace's daughter's age).  I woudl discount the IGI entry compeltely if it was just a member's entry but as it's from a batch number I have to consider it a bit more than that!

The Phillack OPC does acknowledge that the IGI batch numbers record comes from older material than his but even those earlier mormons were able to make mistakes in transcription I'm sure.  Thinking about the transcriptions I do for my work as Chippenham OPC in Wiltshire, I'm wondering if the name 'Alice' was mistaken for 'Grace' in the baptism entry I've quoted above.  The last two letters of the words are the same and if a rather large capital 'A' was written it could look like a 'G', as well as the ''i' possibly leaning a lot and looking like 'ra'.  I've certainly had that sort of difficulty in reading some records from as much as a century later.  Maybe that's what happened for the IGI transcriber.

I suppose the answer if to get hold of the IGI film and see for myself but I can't do that - too far from any centre and no time!  It seems a shame to have to go to that trouble when it's just that one record on IGI that's not matching up with anything else.  I will get back to the Phillack OPC and ask him if he's certain that the Edward baptism of 22/7/1770 is definitely for parents Edward & Grace and not Edward & Alice.  It's always possible that the clerk/priest made the error as these were 2 new brothers in town and he migth have got the couple muddled up.  It's happened many times elsewhere.

Anyway, sorry to be boring!  Thank you all very much and any further thoughts and help (especially like the last lot of help!) would be very much appreciated.

[Mandy Digues La Touche]

Hi there, don't know if you are still looking.. I think Reverend William Hockin of Phillack had a daughter called Lucy who married a Digues La Touche - my ancestors.

[fred_smiff]

Hi Ran
There is a farm near Gwithean called Godrevy which was owned by the Hockin family
My ancestor Richard John Rosewarn lived on the farm (tenant), and married Elizabeth Hockin, presumably she was from that family, that was in 7 Dec 1831

[Phil Hosken]

You asked about Hosken but didn't seem to get many responses.  I am Philip M Hosken and am writing the history of HTP at Loggans, Hayle and elsewhere.  If you get this, please drop me a line at marrack@btinternet.com as I am unlikely to be back here regularly.
Happy New Year

Phil