Kerr/Paterson of Ayrshire to Australia

[85jbk]

Hi Jill,

Very frustrating having to look for a Kerr (quite a common name in Ayrshire) and having no joy.
I've had a quick look and can't find either John or Jane on 1851 Census (so far ). I would have thought that with the 1851 Census being on 30th March and the couple marrying about a month later I would find them in Dunbartonshire but I've not came across any likely candidates yet. Of course that may not be the John and Jane you are looking for .
I did find this birth which might interest you - maybe you've already seen it- https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XYSH-6ZN

The baby Archibald Kerr born on 21st March 1852 and christened at Glasgow Lanarkshire would fit with the information you have.

I do wonder though about the reliability of the info on John's death cert, bearing in mind that the information would be provided by one of his descendants who may not have known all the facts  .
It could be that John's father was not a John.... I would be inclined to consider other forenames. This could make your search harder unfortunately .   
What info do the shipping records give you? Does it definitely say Ayrshire as John's place of birth?

Looby

Hi Looby
Thank you for your input toward my question on The Kerr/Paterson's of Scotland. The birth you have there is almost certain to be young Archibald the first. Yeah Hah!!! This now fits with my quandary on the two Archibald's, who I just couldn't fit into the family. This was again substantiated from the death cert of both Mother, Jane and Father John. As it happens I brought the marriage cert last night of the Archibald I have here in Australia which corroborated that he was in fact the one who came to Australia aboard "The Bride of the Sea" with his parents John and Jane, aged 0. The Marriage cert list his birthplace as Glascow, Sclotland. Therefore the Little Archibald Kerr the first has met his demise prior to his parents leaving to Australia. So now to find the second Archibald Kerr Birth record!
I realize the facts on death certs are not always accurate, which I guess is always in your mind when you are researching but without these facts a point of research cannot be realized. I guess that is why we have to clarify with certs! to confirm.
Scotland is all that I can see recorded on the shipping records.

[85jbk]

Hi All 

Just adding link to this older post www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=405915.0 regarding the Patersons as I think Jonn's info on the Paterson is relevant here.

I can't see Jane's entry on https://familysearch.org however a number of possible siblings (if we have the right family for her) show as born in Ochiltree following parents' marriage in 1819 (from Jonn's previous info).

Monica

Hi Monica
Thanks Monica, Yes The Family at Ochiltree seem very possible( and I must say is one I have puit up on my tree)   but confirming this is the hard part. And how to know if this is the correct family?

[85jbk]

Hi Monica,

Thanks for that ! I'd just been looking at the Patersons in Ochiltree.

Think this could be the family in 1851 (minus the elusive Jane )

22 Oswald Street Bridgeton Glasgow

James Paterson      Head  Married   62   Hand  Loom Weaver     born Lanarkshire, Glasgow
Margaret Paterson  Wife     M         56    Housekeeper               born Ayrshire Ochiltree
Eliza Paterson        Dau   Married    27   Steam Loom Weaver 
Andrew Paterson    Son  Unmarried 20    Tailor
Izabella Paterson    Dau   U             18   Shawl Fringer
Margaret Paterson  Dau  U              16   Shawl Fringer
Catherine Paterson  Dau  U             14   Servant
Sarah Morton     Granddau     U      10     Winder
Mary Hetherington  Granddau  U     5      Scholar

All spellings as per Freecen transcriptions. All children and grandchildren born in Ayrshire, Ochiltree.
James could easily have been a box maker in Ayrshire but changed occupation when coming to Glasgow. Just wonder where Jane is hiding

Looby

Looks very promising. Mother Margaret was a "Murdock". The Murdock names continues in the Australian Kerr line today. Maybe this is a hint

[85jbk]

Ah-ha  !

Just found a Jean Paterson on 1851 Census

She's at Row in Dunbartonshire.
Living at Princes Street Helensburgh.

George MacLachlan   age 26    Writer and Procurator  born Paisley Renfrewshire
Elizabeth Maclachlan  age  23     Wife                         born Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Jessy MacLachlan    age 2 months                             Born Helensburgh
Jean Paterson     age 19     House servant                  Born Cumnock  Ayrshire

This surely must be the Jane who marries John Kerr just one month later in Dunbaronshire , Row (Rhu).


Looby 

Genius!! What can I say! This surely has to be Jane!

[85jbk]

Hi Jill,
Had another little browse for John Kerr but I'm not having much luck.
I wonder if you could list the full names of all his children to see if that can give us a pointer to to family.
I had been considering the John Kerr born to John Kerr and Agnes Semple in Stewarton but his year of birth is 1835 making him a wee bit too young to be the groom in 1851 at Rhu. He is on the 1851 Census at St Mary's or Tron, Glasgow aged 16 living with an aunt and uncle Elizabeth and Hugh Snodgrass and working as a Flesher. I'm not convinced he's the man you're looking for?! 
 

Looby

BTW- the above John Kerr is the same one firthview found in Reply no.1

I have to say the entry for your listings above don't really sound correct, just the names are not within my tree. Concurring middle names of children are: Murdock, Thompson, Kerr, Paterson.
John and Janes children are:
Archibald Kerr, b 1852, Scotland and died Scotland ( Assuming he died)
Archibald Kerr, b 1854, Glascow, Scotland
Margaret Murdock Kerr, b 1856, Aust
Agnes Thompson Kerr, b 1858, Aust ( Johns Mothers name was Agnes)
James Paterson Kerr, b 1860, Aust
John James Kerr, b1863, Aust
William John Kerr, b1865,Aust
Isabella Jane Kerr,1868,Aust
Grace Elizabeth Kerr,b1870,Aust
Andrew Allen Kerr,b 1873,Aust

[loobylooayr]

Hi Jill,

Looking at the list of John and Jane Kerr's children is interesting. As is knowing that they used the name Archibald for the second born after the first born died. 
I would be inclined to think that Archibald was John's father's name.
The couple have followed that good old tradition of naming -
first daughter after mum's mum- Margaret Murdock Kerr.
second daughter after dad's mum - Agnes Thompson Kerr
second son (third after the demise of Archibald no.1) after mum's dad- James Paterson Kerr.

The use of the middle names would make me wonder if John's mum was an Agnes Thompson before marriage.

I have found a marriage for an Archibald Kerr and an Agnes Thomson  (no p  ) in Inch in Wigtownshire  20th April 1811 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY72-7NT.

it appears that this couple go on to have several children one of whom is a John Kerr born in Kirkholm , Wigtownshire 10th Jan 1831 - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XY9M-DTL

By 1836 this family have moved to Ballantrae, Ayrshire (beautiful area) as they have a son James born there.
Here is the family on the 1841 Census-
Drumconel. Ballantrae, Ayrshire

Archebald Kerr   aged 57    Joiner    born outside Census County
Agness Kerr   aged   46                          "
Agness Kerr     aged 15                          "
Archibald Kerr aged  12                           "
John Kerr        aged 10                           "
Robert Kerr     aged 8                             "
Charles Kerr   aged 8                              "
James Kerr    aged  5                     born Ayrshire
Grace Cumming   aged 8               born outside Census County

Spellings are as transcribed on Freecen.
It's interesting that there's a Grace in this family as the name also appears as one of your John's daughters. No relationships are recorded on the 1841 Census so I don;t know who Grace Cumming is but as Archibald and Agnes above do have older children I wondered if this could be a granddaughter??

Looby

[loobylooayr]

Hi again Jill,

Think I've found the John Kerr from my last post on the 1851 Census living with a family (perhaps his boss?) in Greenock Renfrewshire.
The family are at Roxburgh Street, Mckellvies Land

MASON       John       Head       M       M       48       General Mason        Stirlingshire - Strathblane           
 MASON       Jane       Wife       M       F       40               Renfrewshire - Greenock           
 MASON       James       Son       U       M       12       Janitor At School        Renfrewshire - Greenock           
 MASON       John       Son       -       M       11       Janitor At School        Renfrewshire - Greenock           
MASON       Amelia       Dau       -       F       8       At School        Renfrewshire - Greenock           
 MASON       Joseph       Son       -       M       6       At School        Renfrewshire - Greenock           
 MASON       Elizabeth       Dau       -       F       4               Renfrewshire - Wemyss Bay(Originally: Renfrewshire - Wemys Bay)           
 KERR       Archibald       Lodger       -       M       21       Mason's (App)        Wigtownshire - Kirkcolm           
 KERR       John       Lodger       -       M       20       Joiner        Wigtownshire - Kirkcolm           
 
Looks like John and his brother are together working for Mr Mason the mason
Their parents are still in Ballantrae in Ayrshire on this Census
KERR       Archibald       Head       M       M       65       Milwright        Wigtownshire - Kirkcolm           
 KERR       Agnes       Wife       M       F       54       Milwrights Wife        Wigtownshire - Inch           
 KERR       Charls       Son       U       M       28       Joiner And Milwright        Wigtownshire - Kirkcolm           
 BARCLY       William       Grnson       U       M       8               Ayrshire - Colmonell           
    
By road in 1851 it would have been a long trek from Greenock to Rhu in Dunbartonshire  . And this Census was taken just a few weeks before the marriage of John Kerr and Jane Paterson....
Hmm...I wonder how frequently the boats sailed from Greenock "across the watter"   

Looby
        

[85jbk]

Hi again Jill,

Think I've found the John Kerr from my last post on the 1851 Census living with a family (perhaps his boss?) in Greenock Renfrewshire.
The family are at Roxburgh Street, Mckellvies Land

MASON       John       Head       M       M       48       General Mason        Stirlingshire - Strathblane           
 MASON       Jane       Wife       M       F       40               Renfrewshire - Greenock           
 MASON       James       Son       U       M       12       Janitor At School        Renfrewshire - Greenock           
 MASON       John       Son       -       M       11       Janitor At School        Renfrewshire - Greenock           
MASON       Amelia       Dau       -       F       8       At School        Renfrewshire - Greenock           
 MASON       Joseph       Son       -       M       6       At School        Renfrewshire - Greenock           
 MASON       Elizabeth       Dau       -       F       4               Renfrewshire - Wemyss Bay(Originally: Renfrewshire - Wemys Bay)           
 KERR       Archibald       Lodger       -       M       21       Mason's (App)        Wigtownshire - Kirkcolm           
 KERR       John       Lodger       -       M       20       Joiner        Wigtownshire - Kirkcolm           
 
Looks like John and his brother are together working for Mr Mason the mason
Their parents are still in Ballantrae in Ayrshire on this Census
KERR       Archibald       Head       M       M       65       Milwright        Wigtownshire - Kirkcolm           
 KERR       Agnes       Wife       M       F       54       Milwrights Wife        Wigtownshire - Inch           
 KERR       Charls       Son       U       M       28       Joiner And Milwright        Wigtownshire - Kirkcolm           
 BARCLY       William       Grnson       U       M       8               Ayrshire - Colmonell           
    
By road in 1851 it would have been a long trek from Greenock to Rhu in Dunbartonshire  . And this Census was taken just a few weeks before the marriage of John Kerr and Jane Paterson....
Hmm...I wonder how frequently the boats sailed from Greenock "across the watter"   

Looby

Possibly him as when he came to Australia he went straight out to Buninyong, Victoria, Australia where he would help build the town. He was listed as a Carpenter of Ballarat ,Victoria Australia in the 1903 Electrol Rolls.

But how is the best way to verify all this wonderful information?

[MonicaL]

Inspired, Looby 

Monica