Author Topic: The Very Mysterious John FLETCHER  (Read 19894 times)

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,508
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: The Very Mysterious John FLETCHER
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 06 December 14 18:59 GMT (UK) »
Mull Genealogy certainly very likely to be the correct transcript...compared to the other transcript service  ::)

Just an odditity that it shows a John, the missing son. Age etc all fit well for Colin.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline fifer1947

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,906
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: The Very Mysterious John FLETCHER
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 06 December 14 19:16 GMT (UK) »
Acc to SP (again) there are 4 x 33 year old John Fletchers in Scotland in 1891, none are in Argyle.  3 are in Glasgow a likely destination of Western Islanders, the other is in Dumfries.

Providing he was still using his correct name and age, I'd look at those 3 Glasgow entries first.
Ireland, Co Antrim: Kerr; Hollinger; Forsythe; Moore
Ireland, Co Louth: Carson; Leslie
Ireland, Co Kerry: Ferris
Scotland, Perthshire/Glasgow:  Stewart
England, Devon/Cornwall: Ferris, Gasser/Jasser/Jesser, Norman

Offline fifer1947

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,906
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: The Very Mysterious John FLETCHER
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 06 December 14 19:17 GMT (UK) »
Mull Genealogy certainly very likely to be the correct transcript...compared to the other transcript service  ::)

Just an odditity that it shows a John, the missing son. Age etc all fit well for Colin.

Monica

I've updated the other post Monica don't know if you saw it? Marriage of Catherine Fletcher to Allan Cameron.
Ireland, Co Antrim: Kerr; Hollinger; Forsythe; Moore
Ireland, Co Louth: Carson; Leslie
Ireland, Co Kerry: Ferris
Scotland, Perthshire/Glasgow:  Stewart
England, Devon/Cornwall: Ferris, Gasser/Jasser/Jesser, Norman

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 32,508
  • Girl with firewood, Morar 1910 - MEM Donaldson
    • View Profile
Re: The Very Mysterious John FLETCHER
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 07 December 14 20:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi Fifer  :)

Yes I have now, sorry. Like all of us now, here, there and everywhere  :D

Not sure if we have added anything here, Mary  :-\ You are an experienced researcher, as I have seen from material online.  What you and your father need really, is to be able to sit at one of the main Scottish genealogy centres' computer screens and plough through records. Something that is not possible from Canada...

Your research for him in the 1900s is directed by the comment:


The story goes that he joined the military and at some point deserted and then lived the rest of his days in/near Taynuilt under the assumed name of John MCDONALD. A nephew took care of his affairs after his death and it was he who supplied this information. John MCDONALD is such a common name and so many villages and parishes border Taynuilt, and the lack of a death year all make this a difficult task. He likely died between 1930 and 1950, so I wouldn't be surprised if some old native of Taynuilt might recall him.


Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline argyllshiregirl

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
    • View Profile
Re: The Very Mysterious John FLETCHER
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 07 December 14 22:13 GMT (UK) »
Hello folks,
Wow, thank you for all this help, and so quickly too! It's a lot to digest.

Monica, you are absolutely correct about the deaths of John FLETCHER's parents in 1883 and 1904. You are correct too that Mull was the land of the FLETCHERs! Different waves of them went over to Mull during different centuries. My father is the last Glenorchy born FLETCHER (1931), although his great grandfather, Alexander FLETCHER, had migrated to Mull nearly a century before, and then the subsequent generations returned to the mainland. Recently, my father did Y DNA testing and matched with a Mull FLETCHER who had long been told that they were different FLETCHERs. The FLETCHERs were cattle drovers. You find them in places like Mull and Islay where the cattle grazing is excellent. This is likely how they became entangled with the MCPHAILs, other historic cattle people.

Monica, the second family you mentioned, the ones at Derryguaig in 1901, are the correct ones. They are also the same family found at Achnacraig 10 years earlier. Not sure why it says John rather than Colin though ... odd. Too young to be John, who would be 33 by then.

Fifer, yes John's sister, Catherine FLETCHER, did marry Allan CAMERON. My father, now almost 84 years old, remembers them. Allan was some way related to Margaret CAMERON who was the wife of Catherine's brother, Colin FLETCHER (that you pointed out on the 1911 census at Ardchrionish). I met their eldest son, Alexander (known as Alisdair) FLETCHER, shown on that census. Colin FLETCHER's son, also Colin (age 3 in 1911) has a daughter living on Mull today. I know her as well. The nephew that I mentioned in my original post, the one who took care of John FLETCHER's final affairs was this younger Colin FLETCHER, born about 1908.

Thanks again, folks!
Fletcher of Glen Orchy, Argyll, McGregor of Argyll and Balquhidder, Perth, Mathison, Laidlaw, Forsyth of Dumfriesshire, McMillan, Johnston, Galbraith, Nicholson of Argyll, McPhail, McArthur, McKinnon, McLean, Paterson from Isle of Mull

Offline fifer1947

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,906
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: The Very Mysterious John FLETCHER
« Reply #14 on: Monday 08 December 14 12:14 GMT (UK) »
What I was trying to get at (gently  ;)) with my post re 1891 census was to try to narrow down the time frame of when (or why) and where he changed his name.

Two reasons spring to mind a) desertion from military service as you state or b) family avoidance  :-[ does happen sometimes especially if they had a termagant of a spouse and we don't always tell our family the true reason.  ;D

So if we can find him in 1891 census we could be closing in.

PS I also have a link to McPhail on Mull  :)

PS Monica LOADS of Fletchers in Mull records  :D

Ireland, Co Antrim: Kerr; Hollinger; Forsythe; Moore
Ireland, Co Louth: Carson; Leslie
Ireland, Co Kerry: Ferris
Scotland, Perthshire/Glasgow:  Stewart
England, Devon/Cornwall: Ferris, Gasser/Jasser/Jesser, Norman

Offline fifer1947

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,906
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: The Very Mysterious John FLETCHER
« Reply #15 on: Monday 08 December 14 12:28 GMT (UK) »
More thoughts
Where was Colin jnr living when he tended to his uncle's affairs?
Did he live close by?
If not
How was he contacted and by whom after John died?
Ireland, Co Antrim: Kerr; Hollinger; Forsythe; Moore
Ireland, Co Louth: Carson; Leslie
Ireland, Co Kerry: Ferris
Scotland, Perthshire/Glasgow:  Stewart
England, Devon/Cornwall: Ferris, Gasser/Jasser/Jesser, Norman

Offline argyllshiregirl

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
    • View Profile
Re: The Very Mysterious John FLETCHER
« Reply #16 on: Monday 08 December 14 14:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi Fifer,

No need to be 'gentle' ... I am very familiar with secretive relatives!  ;) Actually, those are my favourite kind - the colourful ones! Give me a good skeleton in the closet any day of the week.

Yes, Colin FLETCHER, the nephew was living nearby. My father can rhyme off all the places he was during those years, so I will get him to tell me again. Dad says Colin would have been a minimum of 21 years of age to be allowed to take care of someone's affairs, so 1929 at the earliest. John, his uncle, would have been 71 then. So the death likely occurred in the 1930s - 40s. I wish I knew what lawyer he used! I have received wills from the 1930s still stored in files of present day Argyll law offices.

Another clue, but it might be a far reach and nothing at all. Dad says he remembers his great aunt, Catherine (FLETCHER) CAMERON having nothing on the walls of her tiny cottage except a huge prominently displayed art piece depicting the exploits and campaigns of Hector MCDONALD, the famous Scottish military man who rose up through the ranks to become a major general. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hector_MacDonald Maybe Catherine was keen on him simply because of his Scottish patriotism. Or maybe it was more? Could it be that Hector, (born in 1853) and John FLETCHER were young privates together in the military once? Might Catherine have met him? Could the alias MCDONALD be a nod to Hector? Grasping at straws here, I know!  ::)

You have Mull MCPHAILs too? I'm not surprised. I find that all my mainland Argyll ancestors connect loosely to each other, if even by marriage. On Mull, and the other islands, I find they are all related and often 2 or 3 times! My MCPHAIL connection hits a dead end early. Catherine (MCPHAIL) FLETCHER was the daughter of Colin MCPHAIL and Mary STEWART who married at Kilchrenan & Dalavich and also had a daughter, Mary MCPHAIL, there in 1836. Beyond that, I know nothing.

We'll get somewhere yet!

Mary
Fletcher of Glen Orchy, Argyll, McGregor of Argyll and Balquhidder, Perth, Mathison, Laidlaw, Forsyth of Dumfriesshire, McMillan, Johnston, Galbraith, Nicholson of Argyll, McPhail, McArthur, McKinnon, McLean, Paterson from Isle of Mull

Offline fifer1947

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,906
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: The Very Mysterious John FLETCHER
« Reply #17 on: Monday 08 December 14 16:05 GMT (UK) »
My McPhail is Flora bn estimated between 1766-1771 married John McKinnon bn Beach (Beluich), at Kilfinichen & Kilvickeon, Mull, Argyll 31 May 1809 both died at Scoor between 1841 - 51 so sadly no record or further clues.
1841 census
Kilfinichn-Kilvickon-Argyllshire
Address: Scoor
MCKINNON John    M   80       Agricultural Labourer        Argyllshire
MCKINNON Flora     F   70                          Argyllshire
MCKINNON Archibald M   20                     Argyllshire

Who knows she may turn up in your research somewhere!  ;D

Interesting re Hector McDonald
Ireland, Co Antrim: Kerr; Hollinger; Forsythe; Moore
Ireland, Co Louth: Carson; Leslie
Ireland, Co Kerry: Ferris
Scotland, Perthshire/Glasgow:  Stewart
England, Devon/Cornwall: Ferris, Gasser/Jasser/Jesser, Norman