John Carmichael lookup please

[spacecookie]

Ah ha- a bit of a breakthroug

Looby

Hi Looby, now thats really wierd. I was just talking about that as i just found some of the same info while searching the web. I came across on  'Rootsweb Worldconnect Project Ted Packs research'   and it lists the same family with a bit more detail. Helen and Elizabeth have the  same birth years as the ones we have,a coincidence or not???, but why would she be Couper on the marriage cert, and they did find a marriage for John Carmichael and Helen Couper. Unless she married before John, but a bit young i would think.Its so complicated.thanks

[loobylooayr]

Have you looked at the original marriage image on Scotlands People website?
There might be no more info other than what you have already unfortunately but maybe it would be worth checking out.
I wonder if Helen Duncan was illegitimate and was also known by her father's surname Couper.  All just supposition of course at this stage.
I have been trying to find the births of the Duncan children but haven't found any.
I wonder if Elizabeth Duncan married and if she did if it was after 1855 Looking at the original of that marriage would hopefully provide her parents names.

Looby

[spacecookie]

Helen Duncan 1827/28
Robert 13/2/1830
Elizabeth 7/12/1831
Janet 14/11/1833
Isabel 9/3/1836
Andrew 17/8/1837
Ann 11/12/1839
Isobel 1842
David 1844/45
James 1846/47
Jean 1851/52    All born Dundee Angus

Parents Andrew Duncan-Helen Law married  Dundee Angus

[loobylooayr]

That's interesting - we are getting closer

I did a free search on Scotlands People and there is a marriage on 6th February 1829 at Dundee between a Helen Law and an Andrew Duncan.
Young Helen's d.o.b of 1827/1828 means she was born prior to her mother and Andrew's marriage.
So it could be that Andrew is not her natural father but her step- father. But she did call a son after him - Andrew Duncan Carmichael. Where does Couper come in ? Don't know yet. Would doubt Helen jnr had be married before she married John Carmichael.If she had and her first husband died it would have been more usual for her to use her maiden name on remarriage and on the births of her children.

Looby

[Annette7]

If William (as Carmichael) died in New Zealand would obtaining his death certificate show his actual date of birth?   I'm not familiar with what information is given on certificates outside of the UK.

Annette

[spacecookie]

If William (as Carmichael) died in New Zealand would obtaining his death certificate show his actual date of birth?   I'm not familiar with what information is given on certificates outside of the UK.

Annette

Hi, yes can do that but not for a few weeks. I have a copy of his death from a newspaper, 8/6/1914 age 55, puts birth 1859, but will enquire what they have on a Death print out, will let you know,- thank you.

[MonicaL]

From Annette, this is the snippet from the 1861 census she mentioned earlier here for the Carmichael family. I have added a few names top and bottom of their entry in case it helps with deciphering.

Annette, one thing you could consider is contacting SP direct regarding this image (see www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=1210). As you know, they are very good at responding to this type of issue and providing where necessary enhanced sections. Might make it much clearer.

[loobylooayr]

Dearie me - you think they might have employed people with legible handwriting to fill in the Censuses

[MonicaL]

Indeed!

Agree with Annette regarding the ending of the surname which looks like 'son', matching well the ending of the surname Paterson at the top of the list.

Monica