Help with a placename location/translation

[carrumba]

Department of unhelpful information tells me that there is a cup-marked stone at Finduire near Aberfeldy. http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/site/7423/finduie_wood.html

-duie or -dowie in a place name might be from Gaelic dubh meaning dark. If so you have, potentially, an interesting name, 'black white' or 'dark light'. However I recommend the Scottish Place Names Society http://www.spns.org.uk/ who will probably have researched it properly. There are a lot of very spurious place name interpretations out there, resulting from exactly the process I used to get to 'dark light'. So don't trust me on this 

As for where it is, does it occur in the 1841 census, or are your Blairs just listed under Bonhard again?

Hmmm.. thankyou for that.  I find place names and places fascinating when doing Genealogy and gives an insight, potentially, into the myths and stories the people you are researching may have talked about or known.

Interesting that you mention the cup marked stone near Aberfeldy as there is a standing stone at Bonhard that is also cup marked.  I wonder if there is a lost connection between Finduie (Bonhard) and Finduie Wood, Aberfeldy- perhaps not but the meaning of the word may shed a light on it.  Actually, when i look at Canmore, it is closer to Fortingall.  Hmmmm.

The Blairs show as just in Bonhard in every census or record I have seen so far.  Bonhard seems to cover an estate around Bonhard house and includes a number of farms and a mill.  I'll need to have a look at the map someone posted a link to earlier (thanks! :-) )  I'll let you know how i get on.

Thanks everyone for the help!

[carrumba]

Scotlandsplaces have a copy of a map of the Bonhard estate;

www.rootschat.com/links/0jos/

Added: Link shortened to fit page.

Thanks for the info but it's the wrong Bonhard!  This one is up near Laurencekirk rather than by Scone. 

[flst]

Sorry about that. I thought I'd entered Perthshire in my search. Obviously not!   
flst

[carrumba]

Don't worry about it.  It's not *that* far away to be honest and I wouldn't be surprised if they were connected in some fashion way back when.  Someone may have taken the name with them when moving southwards... who knows! :-)

[Expat]

Alexander Blair (1870 - 1851) of Bonhard was my GGGrandfather, through his daughter Euphemia. I´d be very happy to share details of what I know, and I would also be very interested in anything you have dug up!

[MacduffD]

Hi,

I've just stumbled over this interesting post.  I think I can answer the placename query.  My 5x Gt Grandfather was Alexander Macduff of Bonhard (1698-1765).  Alexander was a merchant and miller in Perth in the early part of the 18th century.  In the 1740s he had become wealthy enough to purchase the Bonhard estate (otherwise known as Pockmiln or Springfield).  Alexander was descended from the Macduffs of Fandowie, or Findowie, in Strathbraan, between Dunkeld and Amulree (the same place as previously mentioned, south of Aberfeldy).  The Macduffs had been in Strathbraan since the twelfth century and had been granted the feudal barony in 1431.  It had taken from them when Alexander's Great Grandfather was hanged for his part in the Gowrie Conspiracy in August 1600.  Evidently the farm tenanted by your Blair family was named after the old family stamping ground! 

I have read somewhere, but cannot for the life of me find the reference again, that Fandowie simply derives from the Gaelic for Church or Burying place of the Duffs.  Alexander named other farms on Bonhard after other properties he had owned or leased, including Blackcraigs which Alexander had let in the 1730s.  I'm afraid I don't know which of the present farms was Finduie of Bonhard, but it should be possible to identify it from the census records and a  map.  I'd be interested to hear if you figure it out! Looking at the list of names of farms somebody found on freecen, I'd have thought it would be close to the site of the present day airport.

I hope that this is of some help!

Robert

[Forfarian]

Just a couple of wee niggles, neither of which will advance the matter at all.

First, there is nothing to be read into the location of cup-marked stones, which occur all over Scotland. They are much older than the times we are discussing, and their meaning is unknown, forbye and besides.

More to the point, if the stone is nearer Fortingall than Aberfeldy, then it's nowhere near Strathbraan, which is in the opposite direction from Aberfeldy.

So the Department of Unhelpful Information was doing an excellent job in producing a red herring, for which I apologise profusely 

[carrumba]

Some excellent and fascinating information.  Is especially interesting in the context of various places in Perthshire including Glenshee as well as the previously mentioned.  There always seem to be Cairns or standing stones in the vicinity so would fit with the idea of the name relating to burial grounds.  Saying that, the association with cairns etc could also be coincidental- i'll guess we'll never know for sure.  Would certainly paint an interesting picture, if your hypothesis as the word deriving from Duff burial ground, of places in Perthshire and therefore lands claimed by the Duff family. 

[IanB]

I, too, recall reading that Fan Dowie referred to the burial grounds of the Duffs. (It was "on line" and I'm sure it could be found by Googling under Fan Dowie.)

It seems very likely that Dowie comes from Duff, which was spelt Dubh. In the genitive case I think this becomes dhuibh or perhaps duibh, pronounced something like "dooee"

IanB