Author Topic: ORR, John & Thomas - Brothers?  (Read 2921 times)

Offline FishMan

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ORR, John & Thomas - Brothers?
« on: Wednesday 20 August 14 14:56 BST (UK) »
The 1851 census shows John Orr aged 26 (baker employing 2 men), living with wife Janet and daughter Janet at 99 Causeyside Street, Paisley. John was convicted of robbery & assault in 1857 and sent to Western Australia, wife Janet and daughters Ann & Janet followed in 1864. As yet I have not been able to find the marriage of John & Janet, though there is a marriage between John Orr and Jean Paterson 14/10/1843 which may prove to be this couple (I do realise that Jessie and Janet are sometimes interchanged, but not usually Jean).

I did however find a John Orr and Thomas Orr (both bakers) aged 18 and 19 respectively, in the 1841 census living at 46 Moss Street, Paisley. I believe it is this Thomas that marries Mary Ann Ritchie in 1847 and appears (already a widower) with 2yr old son James in the home of his father-in-law James Ritchie in the 1851 census. He remarries soon after in 1851 to Jane Stevenson and they appear in subsequent censuses until 1891. Thomas dies in 1892 and his death register entry confirms the two marriages, trade as master baker and parents as James Orr and Agnes Madden, son James from the first marriage is the informant. I haven't been able to find a marriage of James and Agnes, nor the births of Thomas or John to a couple with these names.

Do you think 1841 John & Thomas and 1851 John & Thomas the same men? Are Thomas and John brothers?

This is one of those cases where a hypothesis all fits together nicely but to-date there is no "smoking gun" in the form of supporting evidence.

And just to throw in a bit more intrigue - in the 1851 census, John & Janet's elder daughter Ann age 6 is staying at 20 Great Hamilton Street, Paisley in the home of her uncle Alexander Borland and his wife Mary. There are stepchildren in the household with the surname Houston. I know this is definitely Ann because John & Janet's son James b.1854 appears in the Borland household in the 1861 census flagged as Alexander's nephew. How are the Orrs / Borlands related?
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Offline ShirleyX

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Re: ORR, John & Thomas - Brothers?
« Reply #1 on: Friday 07 July 17 06:18 BST (UK) »
I can't help with solving your query - but wondered if over the subsequent years since putting this question on Rootschat you have came up with anything. My Manners family, though just a twig from the Orr family would be related through Thomas and Jean/Jane Stevenson. I'm also trying to track down the possibility of a more direct relationship with the Manners and Orr families.

I have not been able to prove categorically but I think my John Manners born 1789 Glasgow to John Manners (born 1732 Greenock) and Helen Bull/Bole is where the connection may be to the Orr family.
It is possible that this John's (1732) parents are William Manners and Isabel Orr.
I'm also wondering if there might be a link from Isabel to James and Agnes (nee Madden) Orr. It's just a tentative thought, but as the Orr families seem to be from the same districts there is a possibility. Of course I could be barking up the wrong tree altogether.
Dudley, Tipton, Worcestshire - ATTWELL, FISHER, RICHARDS, INCE, SHEERWOOD
Greenock, MANNERS, CAMPBELL, MONTGOMERY, LECKIE