Author Topic: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen  (Read 24971 times)

Offline welshpride

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #27 on: Friday 14 June 13 23:12 BST (UK) »
Interestingly enough, Despair identified two children named Ellin and Jane Jones, were born to Morgan and Ann Jones in the late 1780s & 90s.  What's interesting is their home on baptism records was Tyddyn Wisgyn.  This is the name of the farm across the road from Garth, where John and Jane Daniel raised their children between 1825-1845.  I don't see where the Jane Roberts name would've come from given the parent's names or Morgan and Ann Jones, but the times when Jane was referred to as Jane Jones, well....  The age seems off unfortunately.

Offline welshpride

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #28 on: Saturday 15 June 13 06:19 BST (UK) »
I was just reviewing the postings on this thread and saw something that I had overlooked.  Back on page 1 there was the mention of a baptism in Llanfaglan on 27 August 1786.  The child was Jane Roberts, daughter of John and Margaret Roberts.  I overlooked this because in the next paragraph and subsequent postings we got into the possibility that this was the same John and Margaret Roberts who lived in Ty Newydd. 

I've experienced enough run-ins with the right name being the wrong person to know that there is far more than one John Roberts in this area, and the one in Llanfaglan does not necessarily have to be the one living in Ty Newydd.  My Jane Roberts lived in Llanfaglan.  She was born in 1786.  This baptism took place in Llanfaglan, in 1786.  When she got married it was in Llanfaglan.  To this point, this is the first and only Jane Roberts brought to my attention that has been linked to the correct year of 1786 and in the correct community. 

I would like to find out as many details as I can about the baptism of this Jane Roberts on 27 August 1786.  Let's start there - again. 

Offline DCB

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #29 on: Saturday 15 June 13 09:42 BST (UK) »
Some thoughts:

Margaret Roberts 81 of Ty Newydd bur 31 March 1823, presumably wife of John.

Although John names his daughter as Roberts in his will, rather than Daniel, the female children are often included with their maiden names. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that she is Jane Daniel.

There is a death of Margaret Edwards at the same address in 1822.

John names a son, Robert, in his will. He may have moved away but there is a death of the right age in 1845. He was at Glan y mor, which is still there. I can't find Ty Newydd but the some of the surrounding houses are on the maps.

One tree gives Owen as the father of Robert but he is old enough to be his grandfather

Catherine Roberts 78 of Glan y mor - bur 28 Apr 1831
Robert Roberts 56 of Glan y mor - bur 22 Mar 1845
Owen Roberts 99 of Glan y mor - bur 5 Mar 1847

1841 Census Glan y Mor
Owen Roberts 92 - farmer
Robert Roberts 50 - farmer
Jane Roberts 30 (Robert's second wife)
Cathrine Roberts 4 (their daughter)

David

Offline welshpride

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #30 on: Saturday 15 June 13 15:50 BST (UK) »
DCB:

You noted some of the same things I picked up on late last night.  The scan I was sent of the burial registrations finally came through where I could download it.  When I looked at it I saw Ty Newydd represented three times:

Margaret Edwards, age 33, November 1822
Margaret Roberts, age 81, 31 March 1823
John Roberts, (presumably 80, although I can still see a possibility of 60), 26 May 1826

Furthermore, EVERY REGISTRATION ON BOTH PAGES were signed by the same Vicar - Edward Hughes - who married John Daniel and Jane Roberts.

Some additional thoughts:

1) If John Roberts on this page is 80 he cannot be of the line that my Jane came from because they had no such aged John Roberts in their tree, so you could throw these Roberts out as dead-ends, and there would be no connection to Ty Newydd.

2) Given the known birth year of my Jane Roberts (1786), this John (if 80) and the Margaret from the same household (81) at time of death, means that both would have been in their early 40's when they had Jane Roberts.  This is certainly possible, but I would think more likely in a family were there are multiple children and the couple just kept having kids.

3) The bottom line is that there in no way HAS TO BE a connection between the Jane Roberts baptized 27 August 1786 and the Roberts couple living at Ty Newydd into the early 1820s.  In a way, I'm kind of disavowing the Ty Newydd connection, but am still very interested in finding out more about the Jane noted in 1786.  That name and that year are a match for my ancestor, and I would like to expand upon that lead if possible. 

4) One thing's for sure, searching for a Roberts in this area is an exhaustive process, as nearly 9 out of every 10 postings on this thread involve someone with the last name Roberts


Offline despair

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #31 on: Saturday 15 June 13 16:01 BST (UK) »
Looking for siblings of Jane Roberts baptised 1786 Llanfaglan to John and Margaret,there is a Richard baptised 1783 and possibly a Robert in 1775,abode given as Bryn Glas.Even the record for Richard in 1783 stretches the credibility of the father being John Roberts born 1765(By the way I have struggled to find records of the family of Robert J E Roberts and Jane Jones as described).

I included the Morgan Jones references previouslybecause of the proximity of Tyddyn Wisgyn and in a futile attempt to connect via patronymics to Catherine Morgan(s) who appears in the 1841 census with Foulk Roberts.

I have tried,in vain, io find any will or other birth,marriage or burial record that clearly gives the correct Garth as an abode as a clue to other family connections.

Again,for what it is worth,here are the only records I can find"in the area" with John Roberts born 1765

1765-1817  Tyddyn Felin  Llanddeiniolen
1765-1851  Fron Chwith  Llanddeiniolen
1765-1833  Ty Bach   Pentir
and because of the address,albeit a different date

1762-1830  Waun Wen

I can't remember if this has been covered before, but is it clear Jane was a spinster(approx. 40 who immediately had children?) when she married John Daniel? If not......

Regards
Roger

Offline Huwcyn

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 15 June 13 17:20 BST (UK) »
In case wild goose chases are in the offing, Catherine Morgan is in fact, Catherine (Foulkes) Roberts , mother of Foulk Roberts. After being widowed , she married Evan Morgan from Llanrug, who I think was a widower. He died before 1841 as well, and she then accompanied her sons to Wisconisn.
     
Owen , Parry , Pritchard, Foulkes  o Llanddeiniolen
Jones, Bellis o Sir Fflint
Williams o Beaumaris
Chambers o Dulyn
Rowlands o Tywyn

Offline DCB

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #33 on: Sunday 16 June 13 11:17 BST (UK) »
I don't know if you have the full details of the baptisms of John Daniel 1827 and Margaret in 1832 - available on http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/ - credits needed for full details or images.

Non-conformist registers sometime give the maternal grandparents, which may be where the surname of Jones came from. For instance I have one which reads - ...wife Mary the daughter of Joseph and Mary M******.

Jane would be about 46 when Margaret was born, so it is possible that she was born when her mother was 44, assuming that the ages are correct.

There is a reference to John Roberts of Bryn Glas on this link -http://isys.llgc.org.uk/isysquery/irl72d/2/doc#hit1

David

Offline welshpride

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #34 on: Sunday 16 June 13 14:30 BST (UK) »
David: Agreed on the age thing, babies are born every day to women in their 40's.

The second link you provided would not open up for me.  Could you check the spelling.  It won't even highlight as a link usually does.

I actually have copies of the baptismal records of both Daniel children and neither mentions grandparents, nor does the Daniel-Roberts wedding registration mention parents.  If only......


Offline welshpride

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Re: Roberts Family of Fachwen and Llandeiniolen
« Reply #35 on: Sunday 16 June 13 14:45 BST (UK) »
For those who have been so kind to help me in my quest to find the parents of Jane Roberts, I wanted to alert you that on this end I am currently trying to find death certificate information and any possible obituaries for Jane (Roberts) Daniel.  She died (according to her headstone) on 13 October 1872.  You would think that in my own country I'd have better luck finding information, but the State of Wisconsin has no registration of her death that I can locate.  Requests for research help from the area of their residence have failed thus far due to a lack of volunteer look-up help, so I will likely have to do it myself.  They lived about 100 miles from me so I hope to journey to the area some day soon, visit the cemetery and the local libraries, and see if I can come up with anything from micro-filmed local newspapers.  The fact that Jane was the wife of a prominent local minister, in my experience, usually leads to the publication of a small article in the local newspaper noting the event.  Her husband John Daniel died in 1859, but perhaps one of the two children they had knew the names of their maternal grandparents and may have provided that information on official death records.  I guess my greatest hope is that official documents will contain a birthdate (to augment the christening dates we've been working with).  For instance, if I were to find out that she was born on 23 August 1786, then the record uncovered citing a baptism of Jane Roberts on 27 August 1786 would cinch it for me that that is in fact the correct Jane Daniel, which would then confirm the names of the parents.  Also, our death records here most often also include parental names.  I will continue to do what I can on my end to learn what I can.  Thank you all again for the efforts you've put forth to help me.