Humphrey Jones born 1824 Barmouth, grocer

[Humphpaul]

In July 1881 when my g.g.gran Mary Humphreys died in Barmouth the person present at death was her nephew Humphrey Jones.
In 1881 census he is a grocer and confectioner at 1, Aber Place, Church St. Barmouth.
Also in 1881 Mary Humphreys widow age 80 is living at LLechigleison next to two Jones families at Brynygraig and Graigfach on the rock.
This leads me to think that Mary's nee name may be Jones also.
I have not been able to find her marriage to my g.g.grandad William Humphreys baptised 9/10/1803 at Llanaber although both their children seem to be legitimate when baptised in LLanaber and she is on her gravestone as his widow and also on the death cert.

So my query is can anyone tell me if a Mary Jones was born about 1800 and christened in a non-con. chapel and later married there. Does anyone know if Humphrey the grocer was an early non-conformist.
I have read somewhere that a lot of mariners like my g.g.grandad were non.con. and one of the chapels was supported by a shopkeeper around the 1830s.


Any suggestions would be very welcome. Thanks Humphpaul

[despair]

You may have seen this already,but just in case,there appears to be William Humphrey's legacy dispute(?)(he died intestate) in the "wills online" section of the catalogue at www.llgc.org.uk.
Perhaps a careful scrutiny of the various characters involved may reveal something useful.

Regards
Roger

[despair]

A first reading of the documents referred to in the previous post,suggests that the claim,which appears to be ratified,is that the Mary Humphreys due the balance of the estate is William' sister,wife of John Evans(labourer).

There are a succession of documents stamp dated 1850 to 1854 with an array of witnesses.

Regards
Roger

[Humphpaul]

Hello Despair. Thanks for your comments. I have got copies of the papers. What I cannot understand is why neither his wife (also Mary) nor his two children are mentioned.

Could there be some legal reason why they were not entitled as direct family.
I wonder if William and Mary had married in a non-conformist chapel and it did not count as legal although the two children appear to be legitimate in their baptisms in the parish register.

In Barmouth everyone concerned would know the family and probably the solicitors etc. would know of them too.

If I could find Mary's nee name I may be able to find the marriage, which is why I am trying the Jones connection.

Any suggestions are very welcome, thanks Humphpaul
 

[despair]

Perhaps part of the problem relates to the patronymic form of naming.An example from the FamilySearch records(not necessarily related to your search)
has two records

1.Mary Humphreys christened 24 Jan1809, Hen Chapel Congregational or Independent Dolgelly      Humphrey Jones and Margaret
(i.e. Mary Humphreys is Mary daughter of Humphrey)

2.Mary Jones christened 24 Jan 1809 Dolgellau  Humphrey Jones and Margaret Jones

Regards
Roger

[Humphpaul]

Dear Despair.
Sorry I have been so long thanking you for the suggestion re patronomics. I have now acted on it. and done  a search on the IGI for a Mary (no surname) born Llanaber 1800 and got a few of course but one is:-
Mary MORGAN birth 14/03/1800 father Morgan JONES and mother also Mary. Bap. at Ebenezer Congregational or Independant, Dinas Mawddwy.So that fits my needs exactly which is probably too good to be true, but I will follow it along with hope.

While I was on this site I noticed a 'Johanson' searching for Morgan Jones so I have sent him a reply about this. If I can get any more  info. I will post it here. Thanks again Alan Williams

[despair]

Your response prompted me to have a look at some of the original data re William and Mary Humphreys again,and it raised a number of queries in my mind,perhaps they will turn out to be what another person on this site memorably called"red herrings barking up the wrong tree":-

1.In the original intestacy bond where Mary Humphreys is described as sister,the date stamp says 1850.I could understand this in a will of somebody who died in 1852,but not an intestacy.
It does appear as if the William Humphreys born Llanaber 1803(parents William and Catherine),had a sister Mary born 1799.

2.You say that the children of William and Mary(unknown),i.e. William and Mary Anne are legitimately baptised,apearing in the parish registers.I have struggled to find them.Can you please confirm parish and years.

3.You have William marrying in Liverpool in 1861 to Ellen Vaughan(and fate unknown after that).
He is registered on the census(7th April 1861) with his mother in Merionethshire.The marriage is also April 1861-not impossible of course,but he would have to get his skates on(no maritime pun intended).

4.If I read your family tree correctly on Mundia,you have Mary Ann(e) staying single?
There is a marriage in 1860 in Llanaber of Mary Ann(e) Humphreys to William Davies.
Her father is given as William Humphreys( mariner).It does not say deceased.
They are probably the couple at census ref. 1871  5692  15  22
The witnesses are Jane Evans and John R Jones(same persons as on the original intestacy document?)
This Jane Evans may also marry a John Vaughan in 1860(haven't checked dates)-interesting with your Vaughan connection?
They may be the couple at census ref. 1871  5690  75  12

Regards
Roger

[Humphpaul]

Dear Roger, thanks for continued help. I had not noticed that 1850 stamp and cannot explain it except if it could be that the solicitor had used am old document first stamped then.

William is in Llanaber PRs baptisms 15th. July 1832 No. 595 with parents William and Mary Humphreys. He is a mariner.
Mary Ann is dated 26th. Sept. 1828, same parents.

Both William and his future wife Ellen Vaughan born 1842 are at Barmouth with their parents for the 1861 census and were married in Liverpool 13th. May 1861 and from then on are in the L'pool censuses. My gran. Elizabeth was born later in 1861 and died 1931. Ellen Humphreys (nee Vaughan) died in 1898 and is buried in Liverpool. Maybe they married in Liverpool to save the embarrassment of being well pregnant at the time.

Regarding Mary Ann born 1828 I have been in touch with a descendant of hers who says she married an Edward Humphreys of Barmouth and in 1871 they are in Ruthin with 3 children and he is District Surveyor. This explains why she was still named Humphreys when she died in 1916 and was buried with her mother in Llanaber. She may have thought her mother was lonely all by herself in the grave. I have not put this on my tree yet as I haven't checked it.Bye for now Alan 

[despair]

I may be able to see why I struggled for the baptisms.I suspect the Llanaber baptisms post 1812 have not been transcribed(or not transcribed appropriately) onto the database I use.I wonder what else fits into this category.
Do you have the entry for Humphrey Jones that might help determine the nephew relationship?

Regards
Roger