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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: MarieC on Thursday 17 November 05 06:32 GMT (UK)

Title: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: MarieC on Thursday 17 November 05 06:32 GMT (UK)
Could I put this one up, in the hope that someone can help?

My g-grandfather, Thomas Hood Bentley, was skippering a barque called the "Earl Cadogan" as a trading vessel around the world in the early 1890's.  He was still captain in 1896.  Fairly shortly after that, he emigrated from England to Sydney where he was a marine surveyor.  He died in 1905.

I am trying to find how and when he and his family came.  They were not assisted immigrants, and living in a Queensland provincial city, I don't have access to unassisted immigration records.  I would guess that he may have come between 1896 and 1898.

Any help gratefully received.

MarieC
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: Mungbeans on Saturday 19 November 05 05:18 GMT (UK)
For immigrants the best place to start is their death certificate.  The NSW certificate shows the number of years they lived in Australia.  This will give you the year (or thereabouts) of when they arrived.

After that there are a couple of internet sites you can use to narrow the search down.
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: MarieC on Saturday 19 November 05 13:24 GMT (UK)
Thanks, spunkymungbeans!! ;D

Silly me, I have a transcription of his death cert from NSW and forgot about that little section that says "Time in colony/state".  If the information given by his son was correct, it looks as though he may have arrived early 1897.  Puzzlingly, the cert. says he had a year in Qld and 7 1/2 years in NSW.  I am not aware that he ever was in Qld.  Maybe I need to check Qld immigration records also

I don't believe information on unassisted migrants is on the Net.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't found any.  I believe I will have to access the records on these from the NSW Archives. 

Thanks again,

MarieC
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: trish251 on Saturday 19 November 05 21:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Marie

If you ever make it to the Qld State library (Cannon Hill) they have some of the NSW unassisted indexes - not sure about how much detail. The Qld records are mainly at the Qld Archives. I visit both on rare occasions.

Trish
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: MarieC on Sunday 20 November 05 10:41 GMT (UK)
Thanks Trish!

I get to Brisbane rarely, but there is a possibility in February next year that I may get to the Queensland State library.  Don't think I'll have time to go to the Archives as well, though. 

If you do happen to go to either and have a bit of spare time to look, I'd be very grateful! :D

I do seem to have him pinpointed to early 1897, now - but unsure whether NSW or Qld.

Marie
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: grub on Wednesday 17 December 08 20:38 GMT (UK)
Hi Marie
Thought we'd bring this up to the forefront....perhaps you can let us know if you have solved your query, or not??

More good "stuff" available research wise nowadays than when this was originally posted.

Regards,
Grub
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: MarieC on Thursday 18 December 08 10:27 GMT (UK)
Thanks for this, grub!  :)

No, I haven't solved this one.  He is not an assisted immigrant.  I think it's almost certain that he came in 1896 or very early 1897, and I have trawled through masses of microfilms of NSW unassisted shipping records, for hours and hours, without finding Thomas and his family!

This is one of my baffling ones, that's for sure!  One of the problems is that information on unassisted shipping records is so scanty that even if you find Bentleys, it's very hard to determine whether they are yours or not!

(Sigh!)  Thanks again, grub!

MarieC
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: jorose on Thursday 18 December 08 13:02 GMT (UK)
Have you tried finding them leaving the UK?
http://www.findmypast.com/passengerListPersonSearchStart.action

 - from here I found more about the family:
http://w3.icr.com.au/~mcameron/The%20Bentleys.html

http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ has an article on 5 July 1897 which I think might be about them, even though it refers to "Mrs F. H. Bentley" (should be T. H., but was probably done from handwritten notes), who was at Saxonholme, Ipswich-Road (Brisbane?), and about to leave to join her husband Captain Bentley in Sydney.

There's also an article in the Brisbane Courier in 1895 which lists arrivals including a Captain Bentley.
And in 1893 in the West Australian, a Mrs Bentley arrived from London.
One quite likely one: Wednesday 12 August 1896, into Brisbane from Sydney, passengers including Mesdames Bentley (and others), Miss Bentley, Messrs Bentley (and others) - could be his wife, daughter, and son?
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: MarieC on Friday 19 December 08 04:49 GMT (UK)
Hi jorose

Thanks for all that!  Your post illustrates really well the difficulties I am having with this family:

*  There is no-one on findmypast (and I searched for Bentley leaving UK for Australia 1893 to 1898) who looks remotely like my Bentleys.  I even tried searching for Britain to the Far East (as the family had previously lived there) but no matches there.

*  The webpage you mention is my own, with info entered by me.  (I know quite a lot about them EXCEPT how/when they came!)

*  I had found the piece in the Brisbane Courier about Mrs F. (sic) H. Bentley and yes, I am almost sure this is my Camilla.  She had at least one brother in Brisbane. 

*  Had found the one in the West Australian many moons ago, while plodding through microfilms.  Sure this is NOT her - too early/no children with her. 

* Hadn't seen the 1895 arrival in the Brisbane Courier.  It is from Sydney, which doesn't tell me when he came to Australia - but quite likely to be him.    This may at least mean that I can pinpoint his arrival to 1895, and the family may have come later.  Thanks for this!

*Ditto the 1896 shipping entry for Mrs, Miss and Mr Bentley.  The big problem is the lack of initials - I can't be sure, though the "Captain" in the first one makes it almost certain.

But with all of this, I still don't know when or how any of them came!  Ancestry is no real help either.  And I have ploughed through microfilms for probably 100 hours or more.  According to FindMyPast, they didn't leave Britain!  I'm beginning to wonder if they swam!!!  :( :'(


MarieC


Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: BushInn1746 on Friday 12 January 18 09:48 GMT (UK)
Hello Marie

I have contacted you before about this Hood family, in the Newcastle upon Tyne / Tynemouth / area, Northumberland and you kindly responded, thank you.

Since then, I have tried to get a copy of the Will of Thomas HOOD BENTLEY, held in the Hong Kong University Special Collections.

The Deacons Law Firm of Hong Kong must have had dealings with the Will at some point, (or acquired the Will somehow).

The University Special Collections have responded to me in the UK and the Will is part of their Collections protected by Hong Kong Copyright Law. But it seems, I may see the Will in person under the provisions of the Hong Kong 'self service' rules by actually visiting Hong Kong in person.

Have you ever tried to get a copy (as you are in a different country to me), or were you told the same, or is this Will a new discovery to you?

 ----------

Lloyd's Captains' Register (from the British Newspaper Archive)

Regarding a List of Captains issued with Masters' Certificates by the Registrar General of Seaman during week ending 8 September 1888.
Port at which Examination took place - LONDON, THOMAS HOOD BENTLEY.

Thank you.

Kind regards Mark
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: MarieC on Tuesday 23 January 18 12:32 GMT (UK)
Hello Mark,

Sorry to have been a while replying - was away when you posted, and since getting home seem to have been really busy.

I wasn't aware of the will you refer to, though I must admit I haven't looked for a will for Thomas Hood Bentley.  Interesting that this will is in Hong Kong, since he spent roughly the last ten years of his life based in Sydney. I am now wondering if he made another will when he was in NSW, which would mean that the one you refer to is superseded.  I will have to try to check on that.

Sorry I can't be more help on this one.  My main mystery with this man was, and is, exactly how and when he and his family came to Australia.  Still haven't found a voyage for them!

Best wishes,

Marie
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: wivenhoe on Tuesday 23 January 18 13:59 GMT (UK)

Is this useful to you......

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/

West Coast Times 1 June 1904 p4
......Interview with Captain Bently......
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: BushInn1746 on Tuesday 23 January 18 20:35 GMT (UK)

Is this useful to you......

https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/

West Coast Times 1 June 1904 p4
......Interview with Captain Bently......

Thank you Marie and wivenhoe

Also try this link Marie to wivenhoe's newspaper find, it might take you straight to article, unless there is a website timeout.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WCT19040601.2.23?query=Bentley

Article mentions being in Hong Kong 18 months as a Superintendent of the Hongkong Whampoa Dock Company, a British company.

Mark
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: MarieC on Wednesday 24 January 18 00:33 GMT (UK)
wivenhoe, you little champ!!

I hadn't thought of searching NZ newspapers as I didn't think he had any connection with NZ.  I knew the basic facts behind the article, but the extra details, and his opinions on various things, are fascinating!  Thank you so much. 

Mark, thank you too for reviving this thread.  I have been thinking further about the will that is in Hong Kong.  He married while he was there (his bride came out from England to marry him) so it is highly likely that the making of the will was associated with his marriage.  (In previous searches I haven't managed to locate a marriage certificate for him).  Of course, two children came along, and he bought a very nice property in Sydney, so I feel sure he would have made a later will to take account of his family and his property. I just hope that it is in Sydney rather than in Taiwan, as it will probably be difficult to access a will there.

I will have a search around soon, and if I find any more information I will post it here.

Once again, thanks to you two good people.  Rootschatters really are the salt of the earth!! ;D

Kind regards,

Marie



Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 24 January 18 07:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Marie,
    Since he died in NSW and had property in NSW I think his will was probably probated in NSW and/or have a copy of the Hong Kong proceedings.

    I haven't found a probate notice on trove.   And it won't appear on the online probate index for NSW Archives as there is a gap 1891-1927.  However I can check the microfiche and photograph it (if there) for you next time I am there.

Ros
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: MarieC on Wednesday 24 January 18 07:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Ros,

That would be terrific, thank you!  When your post came in I was just searching on the NSW Archives site and had come to the conclusion that I wasn't going to find it on the indexes, so was thinking - where to next?  (I live in Queensland.)

He died on 5 August 1905.

No rush, but thank you very much in advance for looking!

Regards,

Marie
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: rosball on Wednesday 24 January 18 08:26 GMT (UK)
A pleasure to help Marie  :)

Ros
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: rosball on Monday 12 February 18 06:20 GMT (UK)
Hi Marie,
   I have photographed his will and probate.    Just sending you a pm with the link.

Ros
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 12 February 18 10:59 GMT (UK)
Hello Ros, Marie, Claire and All

Thank you Ros.

In 1886 Thomas HOOD BENTLEY gave his address as Burnham Somersetshire [Somerset] and Wife was Camilla Bentley.

Witnessed by Inglis GOLDIE and Edna Jane DENHAM

I wonder if there is any connection to James Goldie HOOD, and Frederick Hood, Brewers, of Hessle, near Hull?

 ----------

Re: John & Thomas Hood Bros Sculcoates Tailors and Drapers & London, any Info please

Opening post - re a GEORGE HOOD witnessing a document
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780131.msg6343598#msg6343598
Page 2
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780131.msg6345490#msg6345490


Re: George Hood Burial where? Died Selby, Yorks 18 September 1845 Part 3
Page 4
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=742806.msg5862355#msg5862355


Re: Parish Records Dumfriesshire
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=134050.msg614461#msg614461

Mark
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 12 February 18 11:36 GMT (UK)
Hello All

Thank you very much Ros

Re: John & Thomas Hood Bros Sculcoates Tailors and Drapers & London, any Info please
(Reply #12) quoted below
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=780131.msg6431395#msg6431395

"Hi Mark

Inglis Goldie born Scotland 1843 - son of James Goldie and Isabella Brown

He was in Somerset and married Emma Denham - so a brother in Law of Thomas H Bentley.

Claire
"

Thank you Claire and

Thank you Rootschatters who have been slaving away for 3 years.

Mark
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: MarieC on Monday 12 February 18 11:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Mark, Ros et al,

Loving this conversation!

Haven't looked at Camilla's family, the Denhams, for many years, but they were a large, obviously close Somerset family.  At least three of Camilla's brothers, Henry, Edward and Digby, came to Australia too, and a sister, Edna.  Digby was actually a Premier of Queensland briefly, albeit a rather unsuccessful one!

Inglis Goldie was a brother in law, having married a sister of Camilla.

I don't know about Goldie Hood, Brewers.  In 1891 Thomas Hood Bentley was in Gateshead with his wife and two children and Edna Denham.  This must have been shortly before he acquired the ship "Earl Cadogan" and started his sailing around the world.

Marie
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: BushInn1746 on Monday 12 February 18 12:03 GMT (UK)
Thanks Marie and Ros and Claire

Inns of Hessle

The Inns, Hotels, Public Houses and Brewers of Hessle

 https://www.sites.google.com/site/hesslelocalhistorysociety/hessle-s-history/hessle-in-1879

Marie, interesting, a picture of a Bentley's pub?

For HOOD see under Griffin Brewery in the link
Extract ...
By 1846 the brewery had passed to James Hood, a Scot from Dumfries, who also owned a beer house and five inns. Hood ran a beer house and supplied five inns in the district.

Mark
Title: Re: Thomas Hood Bentley to Sydney late 19th c.
Post by: BushInn1746 on Wednesday 28 November 18 19:17 GMT (UK)
Hello Marie

An 1868 Death Certificate arrived today (and also one for his Birth)

Death in the Registration District Isle of Wight
1868 Death in the Sub-district of Godshill in the County of Southampton
1st September 1868
Died 1 Lynton Villas, Ventnor.
James Goldie Bowes Hood.
Male.
22 Years
Son of James Goldie Hood, Brewer Master
Haemorrhage from the Lungs. About 4 years. The last attack Ten days Certified.
Signature and residence of informant James Goldie Hood Present at the Death. Hessle near Hull, Yorkshire.
Signature of Registrar [not recognised]

 ----------

Obviously I was very interested to see three years later in the 1871 Census, next door Lodging at:-
2 Lynton Villas, Ventnor, Isle of Wight,
Henrietta Alice INGLIS, aged 22, (place of Birth is blank) with other Lodgers.

Head at:-
2 Lynton Villas, Ventnor
Chares Jacobs, Head, Married, aged 60, Bricklayer.

Census Ref RG 10/1169 (possibly folio 51) page 32.

 ----------

We have been discussing an Agnes Hood, born Scotland and from Dumfries here ...

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=803376.msg6620205#msg6620205
See also 1st page of thread

We never did find a Birth for Thomas Hood, the Mariner, on the Seaman's Ticket, who gave his address as:-
1 John Street, Drypool, Hull and his Birth as 19th June 1826 at Hull, County of York.


Mark