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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Boongie Pam on Wednesday 08 September 04 14:50 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
Are you having a fruitless search on the 1881 census?
I found this site...
Which says that the following census are nmissing from the films (which is what LDS trans were done from).
http://www.ktb.net/~dwills/scotref/18811959.htm
PARISH NUMBER/ COUNTY/ PARISH NAME
124/ Moray/ Abernethy
399/ Fife/ Abbotshall
758/ Peebles/ Broughton
822/ Dumfries/ Dunscore
I knew a significant proportion of the Dumfries census was missing - see post from Audrey in Dumfriesshire...
http://www.rootschat.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9751.0
Cheers,
Pam
;D
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Hi All,
Are you having a fruitless search on the 1881 census?
I found this site...
Which says that the following census are nmissing from the films (which is what LDS trans were done from).
http://www.ktb.net/~dwills/scotref/18811959.htm
PARISH NUMBER/ COUNTY/ PARISH NAME
124/ Moray/ Abernethy
399/ Fife/ Abbotshall
758/ Peebles/ Broughton
822/ Dumfries/ Dunscore
I knew a significant proportion of the Dumfries census was missing - see post from Audrey in Dumfriesshire...
http://www.rootschat.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9751.0
Cheers,
Pam
;D
Not entirely true...
Abernethy, Moray can be found in Abernethy & Kincardine, Inverness-shire (90a)
Abbotshall, Fife can be found in Kirkcaldy & Abbotshall, Fife (442)
Broughton, Peebles-shire can be found in Kilbucho, Broughton and Glenholm, Peebles-shire (763)
The 1881 censuses known to be missing are the second half of Dumfries (821) and the whole of Dunscore (822), both Dumfries-shire.
ADP
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I don't know if this information has been posted at RootsChat or not but in case it hasn't, here is a list of census data that is missing according to ScotlandsPeople:
Missing Census Data
The following list details the Census Data (RD number and name) missing for each year and the reason why.
1881
821 Dumfries, Dumfriesshire (Ed's 13-27) 822 Dunscore, Dumfriesshire
1851
We regret that the following Registration Districts are unavailable at the present time. Every effort is being made to rectify this:
Angus
277, Careston
278, Cortachy & Clova
279, Coupar Angus
280, Craig
281, Dun
Ayrshire
597, Kilmarnock
Kincardineshire
268, Strachan
Caithness
We are aware of some issues with the Caithness registration districts of Bower, Canisbay, Dunnet and Halkirk.
1841
93, Cromdale, Moray, entries can be found under Inverallan
167, Seafield, Banffshire , book has no entries
324, Aberfeldy, Perthshire , book has no entries
367, Kinloch Rannoch, Perthshire , book has no entries
400, Abdie, Fifeshire , book has no entries
406, Auchtermuchty, Fifeshire , book has no entries
409, Balmerino, Fifeshire , book has no entries
415, Ceres, Fifeshire , no book
416, Collesie, Fifeshire , no book
418, Creich, Fifeshire , no book
419, Cults, Fifeshire , no book
420, Cupar, Fifeshire , no book
421, Dairsie, Fifeshire , no book
423, Dunbog, Fifeshire , no book
439, Kinghorn, Fifeshire , book has no entries
440, Kinglasie, Fifeshire , book has no entries
442, Kirkcaldy, Fifeshire , book has no entries
444, Leslie, Fifeshire , book has no entries
509, Cumlodden, Argyllshire , book has no entries
535, Tarbert, Argyllshire , book has no entries
556, Lochranza, Buteshire , book has no entries
557, North Bute, Buteshire , book has no entries
577, Auchinleck, Ayshire , book has no entries
776, Kirkhope, Selkirkshire , book has no entries
809, Teviothead, Roxburghshire , book has no entries
862, Corsock Bridge, Kirkcudbrightshire , book has no entries
864, Dalbeattie, Kirkcudbrightshire , book has no entries
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Hi Jacquie,
The 1841 lot have a number of explanations, more than SP has given. The enumeration books for Auchinleck and these Fife ones, plus a few more parts of parishes that were split across county boundaries from Fife were lost, presumed not to have completed the journey from London to Edinburgh (lost overboard from a ship is one version alleged, but I have not seen that verified). Cromdale is correctly explained. The other ones were not parishes at the time of the 1841 census, so the households later in these districts were enumerated in the parishes that were there at that time. So, for these ones it is not that the books have no entries, but that there were never any such books.
ADP
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if you can't find it in 1881 census try the 1881 LD it was carried out on a difference date (it's free)
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Can you tell us what 'LD' is please & do you have a link?
Annie
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If you mean 1881 LDS on Scotlandspeople then it is not based on a different original census record. It is a different transcription of the census that was done by volunteers ( in the 1990's? - I was one of the volunteers but can't remember when it was). It was coordinated by the Church of Latter Day Saints (LDS) and many Family History Societies took part. It wasn't done for commercial gain which is the reason it is free.
Isobel
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Yes it is the LDS version on Scotlandspeople - used to cost 2 credits - but is now free - it can help trace others as there is a slight difference in some areas - the IGI as it was called the lather day saint aka Mormon's were allowed access to the OPR 's And other official Scottish records to digitise on one condition is free to access
NB: Always check if the records a officially supplied or privately submitted because some of the submitted data can have errors and always try and double check the transcription errors if not sure
But saying that it is a help source/ guide
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Any differences between the LDS version and others is simply down to a different interpretation of the same source record. The LDS transcription was very carefully checked so maybe more accurate than the commercially produced ones.
Isobel
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The 1881 LDS transcription was indeed triple checked, but has just as many transcription errors. I checked ONE village name and found it written in about six different ways! The LDS's problem was that many of their transcribers were in the USA and were unfamiliar with Scottish names and places.
Whatever transcribed source you are using, I recommend having Black's "Surnames of Scotland" and a good gazetteer to hand. Scotlandspeople allows you to read the original image.
Gordon Johnson.
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You said:
The 1841 lot have a number of explanations, more than SP has given. The enumeration books for Auchinleck and these Fife ones, plus a few more parts of parishes that were split across county boundaries from Fife were lost, presumed not to have completed the journey from London to Edinburgh (lost overboard from a ship is one version alleged, but I have not seen that verified).
*** The missing Fife parishes were the result of the sinking of the ferryboat which was taking them from Fife to Edinburgh. All these volumes were lost in the Firth of Forth. Scottish enumeration books NEVER went to London, as the Scottish census was run from Edinburgh.
Gordon Johnson (author of 'Census Records for Scottish Families', Out of Print)
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*** The missing Fife parishes were the result of the sinking of the ferryboat which was taking them from Fife to Edinburgh. All these volumes were lost in the Firth of Forth. Scottish enumeration books NEVER went to London, as the Scottish census was run from Edinburgh.
Interesting... Do you know when this sinking took place?
The NRS (National Records of Scotland) tell the story as I had heard it before, about the 1841 and 1851 census enumeration books having been in London, and returned to Scotland after being found in 1910.
See: https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/census-records/1841-census#Missing (https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/research/guides/census-records/1841-census#Missing)
ADP
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*** The missing Fife parishes were the result of the sinking of the ferryboat which was taking them from Fife to Edinburgh. All these volumes were lost in the Firth of Forth. Scottish enumeration books NEVER went to London, as the Scottish census was run from Edinburgh.[/quote]
Interesting... Do you know when this sinking took place?
The NRS (National Records of Scotland) tell the story as I had heard it before, about the 1841 and 1851 census enumeration books having been in London, and returned to Scotland after being found in 1910.
** It is true that 1841 and 1851 census enumeration books were found in London in 1910 and re-sent to Edinburgh, but originally all the enumeration books were required to be sent to Edinburgh from the parishes, as all the administration was done from Edinburgh (had been since 1801). Why these books got to London is a mystery (I suspect some London-inspired administrative foul-up before 1861), but the fact remains that at every census the enumeration books went directly to Edinburgh, which is why the Fife volumes would have gone by boat to Leith, there being no bridge then. There is no documentary evidence of the loss (why would some books lost overboard be newsworthy). The idea of solely some Fife books being lost from a ship, London to Edinburgh in 1910 is ludicrous. Rail would be the only sensible method of movement at that date.
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if you can't find it in 1881 census try the 1881 LD it was carried out on a difference date
Where on earth did that come from? It's not true!
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) did a complete transcription of the original census books for 1881, and the LDS transcriptions are available free of charge at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk but they are from the same source documents as the transcriptions or indexes on FamilySearch and on Ancestry, FindMyPast and maybe other commercial web sites. There is only one set of original documents, and they are available to view only at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk or as microfilms in libraries and some Family History Centres.