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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: Gillg on Thursday 29 December 05 12:37 GMT (UK)
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An American friend is trying to obtain a birth certificate for her great-grandfather, James Fleming Harkness, according to family legend born 5 March 1841, St Martins, Worcester. I cannot find an entry for him on Free BMD. :( Would anyone have access to parish records or BVRI, or can you suggest which would be the appropriate Record Office to write to?
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Worcester Register Office
at 29/30 Foregate Street Worcester WR1 1DS
Many register offices are indexing their records, and it may be that Worcestershire have all the County births indexed by now, so if the Certificate is not in Worcester itself, they may be able to locate which office is holding it.
Not a common name so should be a lot easier.
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Thanks very much. :) That's a good starting point. An initial (free) search on Ancestry hasn't found him either, and I'm wondering if there has been some kind of mistranscription, or whether family history is incorrect. An 1841 or 1851 census for Worcester might give a clue, but I have no other facts to work on.
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Another thought, since my gt grandfather, coincidentally also born 1841 but elsewhere, doesn't appear in any records other than the 1841 census aged 20 days, maybe someone has the 1841 Worcester images, and could find James Fleming Harkness and family for me there. My American friend would be most grateful. :D
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I can't find any Harkness family on the Worcs 1851 census ??? By 1861 there is one family but they don't have a James and are at Malvern. Not very helpful I am afraid.
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I, too, am baffled! I have just discovered that my local FHS has the 1841 for Worcester and have searched on that, but again without success. And yet there are births/baptisms of 3 potential siblings, Margaret, Elizabeth Gondie and Isabella Harkness, registered on FreeBMD in Worcester in 1843, 1845 & 1848 ??? I can only surmise that the family lived elsewhere, but that for some reason family births/baptisms took place in Worcester.
The only James Harkness of the right age I have been able to find is living with his parents James and Margaret in Wigton, Cumberland, and was born in Scotland, in fact Harkness is clearly a Scottish name when you start looking at records. I wonder if my friend's family Bible, or rather a family member's memory of what was in there, could have got the wrong town name .... and yet the date is so precise.
Thank you for trying.
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And yet there are births/baptisms of 3 potential siblings, Margaret, Elizabeth Gondie and Isabella Harkness, registered on FreeBMD in Worcester in 1843, 1845 & 1848 ??? I can only surmise that the family lived elsewhere, but that for some reason family births/baptisms took place in Worcester.
;D Now we may be getting somewhere ;D
The IGI has an entry for birth and bapt of Margaret Dobie Harkness 1843 at Angel St Congregational nonconformist church in Worcester, parents James Harkness and Isabella Stewart.
There is also an Isabella Harkng bpt same place same parents 1848.
That all seems to fit together so at least these people existed and they do sound Scottish to me as well what with Fleming and Stewart mixed in there too.
I suggest that you ask if anyone can look at the actual entries for you, possibly at Worcester Family History centre. You may get lucky and find the father's occupation or their address or something. You can never tell with the independent churches. There may be a few more entries lurking there too, the entries may be difficult to read unless you are actuallly looking for a particular name if you see what I mean.
PS Elizabeth Gondie may be Condie as there are a few Condies from Scotland in the Worcester area in 1851.
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Non-Conformist is good, though Methodist would have been better than Congregationalist. James F Harkness emigrated with his Scottish wife and a group of like-minded Scots to America around 1880, and together they founded a township and set up a Methodist Church there. Two of his sons became Methodist ministers.
I think a look at the parish register for St Martin's, Worcester, will have to be the next step, to see if there really is an entry there, also to check out the parentage of the three potential sisters. Unfortunately I don't live near there, so have suggested to my friend that she emails the Record Office there with an enquiry. However, if anyone feels able to offer to visit the RO to take this further, I'd be most grateful.
Many thanks again, Gardener. :)
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Thanks for this... I have been wondering for a while where my Harkness Family disappeared to.
James Fleming Harkness, b. 1841, Worcester, Worcestershire, England was the son of James Fleming Harkness, b. abt 1817, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland and Isabella Stewart, b. abt 1816, Paisley Renfrewshire, Scotland.
The family moved back to Paisley and appear on the 1851 census there, and then on the Glasgow, St George census in 1861. I have no trace of them after that, and I had assumed that they emigrated.
James (Senior) worked for the railways as a Carriers Clerk.
His parents were William Harkness and Jane Fleming. I know that William was a police sargeant, but not much else, except that the family came from Northern Ireland.
James (Senior) had two older brothers that I know about, John and Thomas. Both were born in County Derry.
Thomas is my 3x Great Grandfather.
Most of the Harkness's disappear from the local scottish records after 1851. It would be good to find out where they settled in the US.
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Well isn't that great? You must be related to Gillg's American friend and I hope you can sort this out now :)
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Well, after all these years! :o I'll email my friend with stewart richie's information and try to put them both in touch.
Thanks so much, stewart.
Gillg
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stewart
I should have said welcome to RootsChat! :) You'll find people on this site very friendly and helpful. If you put on a couple more messages you wll then be able to send private messages via the little green scroll symbol on the left under members' names. You could then let me have your email address privately in one of them. My American friend is in her 80s now and I didn't hear from her this Christmas, so hope she is still with us - at least the email I sent her with your information hasn't been returned as impossible to send, so here's hoping.
Regards
Gillg
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Thanks for the welcome... I'll see if I can come up with some useful posts.
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Although I haven't yet received a reply from my friend, I have found an old email from her which contains quite a lot of detail about James and his family, who apparently settled in Dakota, then later Kentucky. I'll paste it onto an email for you.
There is a Pedigree Resource File on the IGI which mentions James Fleming Harkness. The owner has an extensive website, which includes over 3000 members with surname Harkness, so don't know how reliable this is!
Gillg
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Hurrah, just received an email from America assuring me that my friend is alive and kicking (her words) and will get in touch soon, so watch this space....
Gillg
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Hello Gillg
Going back to your initial enquiry. James Harkness appears to have been transcribed on the IGI as James Harteness born 5 Mar (sic) 1841 bapt. 18 May 1841 Angel Street Congregational Church Worcester. Son of James Harteness and Isabella That would tie up with the info you have about James’ sisters who were also baptised at the same church.
HTH
Nemo
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Thanks very much, Nemo. I'll suggest to my friend that she requests a copy of the birth entry from the PR. The othe children seem to have had a gap of a couple of months between birth and baptism, too.
Gillg
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I'm new to this website and so just came across this. James was my great-great grandfather. Would love to be in touch if you know more. My mother has a photo of the train station where James senior was station master.
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I have details of the Harkness family back to around 1815, plus details of few descendants.
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Hi, lookingma, and welcome to RootsChat!
If you post another two messages on here you will then be able to send and receive Private Messages. You could then let me have your email address and I can put you in touch with my elderly American friend, born Harkness. As you can see, I did some finding out for her, but then left it up to her how far she wanted to pursue it. She may wish to make contact, but it's up to her.
Stewart
Did you manage to get in touch with my Harkness friend? Perhaps you and lookingma can exchange information.
Regards
Gillg :)
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Hi Stewart,
I have information going back to about the same time. I also have photo copies of photos of James Fleming and Jane Thomson Mackenzie. I think my mother found them on ancestry.com but I couldn't find them there myself.
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Hi Gillg,
Thanks for your welcome. I'd be great to be in touch with your friend ... but I wonder if it's my mother?
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lookingma
I'm sending you a PM just to check! If it is your mother, then you and I have met very many years ago!
Gillg
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It was indeed lookingma's mother! How great to make contact again with the family. PM sent.
Gillg
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I would love the photo of the train station. James Fleming Harkness Sr is my 2nd great grandfather...thanks
annegilmer@rocketmail.com
.uote author=lookingma link=topic=115572.msg4979581#msg4979581 date=1372076647]
Hi Stewart,
I have information going back to about the same time. I also have photo copies of photos of James Fleming and Jane Thomson Mackenzie. I think my mother found them on ancestry.com but I couldn't find them there myself.
[/quote]Hi Stewart,
I have information going back to about the same time. I also have photo copies of photos of James Fleming and Jane Thomson Mackenzie. I think my mother found them on ancestry.com but I couldn't find them there myself.