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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Thowdfettler on Wednesday 18 January 06 07:30 GMT (UK)
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A number of years ago, before my genealogy interest, I purchased a Williamson family history chart from a stall at a vintage steam rally. Since researching my Williamson line I have become intrigued to learn that most info on this chart is basically factual, and fits in with my own research, to date. How ever, one detail still evades me, namely that in the 12th and 13th century that the name of Williamson was a recognised Scottish border clan in it's own right, with it's own clan chief and recognised by Parliament.
I can find no other record of this, other that the name being associated the clans McKay and Gunn.
Would welcome any help on this subject.
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I traced my family from Williamsons in the Shetlands, and came across the same information you have about the clan. It seems to have been a "sept" or division of those clans. It has its own tartan, but that's more to do with marketing. I don't think we can make much of it unless we can trace our Williamsons back to the Gunns or McKays.
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Hi, nice to hear from you.
I dont know if I agree or disagree with your theory, as I don't understand the scottish clan system.
Would you be prepared to enlighten me and explain. ie What exactly is a sept ? and how does it fit in with a clan. If it is correct that the Williamson family or name was a clan in it's own right, then how could it be a sept of another ?.
Another few paragraphs from the said Williamson chart.
The family name Williamson is believed to has descended from the Strathclyde Britons. This ancient founding race of the north were a mixture of Gaelic/Celts whose original territories ranged from Lancashire in the south, northward to the south bank of the river Clyde in Scotland.
Tracing it’s ancient development, the name Williamson was found in Peebles. This family was a recognised border clan with it’s on chief and acknowledged by Scottish Parliament. In the 12th & 13th centuries their influence on border life was great, and they had territories at Hutchinfield, and Balgray moving north to Banniskirk in Caithness. Meanwhile they branched south to Melbeck Hall in Cumberland, New Hall in the same county to Keswick, Durham, Yorkshire and Northumberland.
By the year 1000AD, border life was in turmoil. In 46, 6 chiefs from the Scottish side and six from the English side met at Carlisle nd produced a set of laws governing all the border clans.. These were unlike any laws prevailing in England or Scotland, or for that matter, any where else in the world. It then goes o to give some examples of such laws.
The document goes on to state that in 1603, the unified English and Scottish crowns under James 1 dispersed these unruly border clans, clans which had served loyally in defence of each side. The unification of he governments was threatened and it was imperative that the old ‘border code’ should be broken up. Hence the Border Clans were banished to England, Northern Scotland and to Ireland. Some were outlawed directly to Ireland, the Colonies and the New World.
Many border clans settled in Northern Ireland, transferred between 1650 - 1700 with grants of land provided that they undertook to remain protestant. Hence they became known as the ‘Underakers’.
The Scottish Williamson Coat of Arms is or was as I understand I, was the same as that displayed on my site profile, apart from there was no crescents, these I believe were added to the Irish side and depicted their agreement to the protestant rule.
By the way, I have three of these Williamson family origin documents, the Scottish, the English and the Irish.
Stuart
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I got the stuff about "septs" from a website (by googling williamson and clan). It just means a division or offshoot, I think. The trouble is that "Williamson" is an extremely common patronymic which would have arisen all over the UK independently, so proving one's descent from those who were part of Scottish clans would be difficult. If you've got back far enough to establish a link, good for you.
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I just stumbled across this message board, and being a Williamson who's only the second generation to be born outside of Peebles in my family I can support some of the peebles-related links which is one of the most common origins listed for the name. It is also right that there are close ties to the Gunn and MacKay clans, but i'd never heard anything of the Williamsons before the 19th Century, and with it being a common patronymic name I doubted it went back much further!
Cheers for this,
Nathan Williamson
(great grandson of William Williamson, a great name if there ever was one!)
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On a slightly different track...
My Williamsons come from West Yorkshire around the Keighley area. I've traced back to Richard Williamson, whose son John was a worsted spinner (mill owner) born 1797.
I've got stuck with Richard and haven't found much info on him, although I've lots on John and his family if anyone is interested.
Cheers
Mike
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After stumbling onto this site, it may be worth a mention that the clan MacWilliam (Mac meaning "son of") was a highland clan existing from early 11th century to the latter part of the 12th century until warring and conflict from neighbouring clans severed their lineage and forced them apart. Once this "extinction" of sorts occurred, some members were assimilated into clan Mackay, Gunn, and MacFarlane as we know today. Although MacWilliam isn't what we're debating today it should be noted "Mac" meaning "son of" is consistent with "son of William" hence Williamson, as surnames have an evolution of their own.
http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/m/macwilliam2.html
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Beware the guff and poppycock propagated by the Brigadoon industry, which would have us believe that every Scot is descended from a Highland clan, and that we all cherish our ancient clan links including tartans, almost all of which were invented long after the Battle of Culloden and the efforts of the UK government to extirpate the clans.
The surname Williamson is a patronymic and means exactly the same as MacWilliam, that is, 'son of William'. Nothing more and nothing less. The name William is of Germanic origin, and exists in several European languages - Gaelic Uilleam, German Wilhelm, Dutch Willem, French Guillaume, Italian Guglielmo and so on. William is one of the four commonest male given names in Scotland (along with James, John and Alexander).
So a moment's thought will tell you that the surname Williamson must have arisen independently in many places, and that not all bearers of the name are related to one another.
In particular, it is nonsense to suggest that everyone whose surname happens to be Williamson can possibly be connected to any specific clan. It is very likely that there were people surnamed Williamson (or MacWilliam) living in the territory, and under the protection, of this clan or that, but that isn't a sound basis for researching family history.
For a start, the majority of the population of Scotland always lived in the Lowlands, so the majority of Williams, and hence of their sons, would have been Lowland born and bred, with no connection at all to the clans of the Highlands.
So unless and until you have found a definite link to a Williamson who was associated with a clan, just ignore the possibility of a clan connection. All you will achieve is to confuse yourself andf complicate your research unnecessarily.
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Can someone enlighten me? I was told that the Williamsons were sent to the north of Ireland from Scotland as part of the "Plantations" But someone else said it was under another "settlement" "invasion".
I have a John Williamson with a wife Helen McColville somewhere in Ireland c1780-1820 but this line ends there.
Where do I go from here?
Judy
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Nobody was "sent" to Ireland as part of the Plantations. The so-called Planters were Scottish lairds who obtained land grants in Ulster and many of their tenants moved over there to better themselves, as they saw it.
Those Scots who were forcibly removed to Ulster were members of the wild and untamed Border "reiving" families like Armstrong and Graham who had always been a thorn in the side of the Scottish kings and a pest and nuisance to their law-abiding neighbours. Some Scottish Border surnames like the above two are still common in places like Fermanagh and Tyrone.
Harry
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That's really very interesting information. Thank you.
Another Williamson relative suggested that our Williamsons originally came from the "northern isles" of Orkney and Shetland.
It would be really good to find out about their origins.
Judy
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If you do a Google search for Peter Williamson + Shetland, you'll get lots of interesting links to Shetland, including a Williamson mass murderer!
Harry
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Can someone enlighten me? I was told that the Williamsons were sent to the north of Ireland from Scotland as part of the "Plantations" But someone else said it was under another "settlement" "invasion".
I have a John Williamson with a wife Helen McColville somewhere in Ireland c1780-1820 but this line ends there.
Where do I go from here?
Judy
Where did you get the info regarding location and date of c1780-1820?
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If you do a Google search for Peter Williamson + Shetland, you'll get lots of interesting links to Shetland, including a Williamson mass murderer!
Harry
Ooooh Errrr! Don't know if I want him as an ancestor! :)
Judy
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Where did you get the info regarding location and date of c1780-1820?
Hi Sancti
I must confess I have had much help on rootschat before but the Williamsons have always proved a problem. It is very confusing to explain but I will have an attempt.
The dates I quoted were "guesstimates" (if there is such a word). On my gtx2 grandfather's marriage certificate dated 1 July 1855 he is 35 years old, hence 1820 for his approximate birth date in the north of Ireland. His parents, stated before, would presumably have been born in the previous century, I imagine. In the 1851 census (Twynholm) there is a John Williamson, married to a Margaret Williamson, with two sons. I did wonder if this was him as on the 1855 marriage certificate to my gtx2 grandmother, Jane Marshall, he was a widower with 2 living male children! In Family Search there is a marriage of a John Williamson to a Margaret Halliday in December 1842 at Moira, Down, which would tie in with the first born son's birth date.
How can I obtain the marriage details of this John Williamson's marriage to Margaret Halliday at Moira but even then it may not show the groom's parents details. Where were the older John Williamson and Helen McColville married? As the marriage to my gtx2 grandmother was a Roman Catholic marriage I would imagine that previous births and marriages would have been recorded in some Catholic Church somewhere in Ireland. ::)
Sorry about this complicated scenario but it's been puzzling me for years. I know that there were many records burned in Dublin in 1922 so I was just hoping that some original church documents may have been retained within the individual church buildings.
Do you think I should approach the Ireland History Society and pay for an official search?
Judy
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Does the 1855 marriage give his birthplace or parish?
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Have you traced the marriages or deaths of his 2 children to confirm his 1st wife's name?
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If you do a Google search for Peter Williamson + Shetland, you'll get lots of interesting links to Shetland, including a Williamson mass murderer!
Harry
Ooooh Errrr! Don't know if I want him as an ancestor! :)
Judy
I should explain why I picked the name Peter Williamson to Google. I had a distant memory of reading about a Peter Williamson who was sold into slavery in the States and ended up living with an Indian tribe and participating in their raids, before coming home to Scotland and becoming a bit of a celebrity in Edinburgh. My memory was that he was a Shetlander, but in fact it seems he was from Aberdeenshire.
Still, no harm done, as my Googling the name Peter Williamson did turn up lots of links to Shetlanders, apart from the psychopath!
Harry
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Does the 1855 marriage give his birthplace or parish?
Just "The North of Ireland". I am lucky to have this post 1855 certificate but it's very difficult to read.
J
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Have you traced the marriages or deaths of his 2 children to confirm his 1st wife's name?
I have tried but found nothing conclusive. Emigrants with the same names are just down as born in Scotland with no actual detail.
My gt grandmother Jane Williamson (born c1861) had an older brother John Williamson born in 1857 which is strange, if what I believed about the other family is true. Would he really have named his first born of his second marriage John too unless the first one had already died?
In the end I just get completely confused.
The family were Vagrants and Tinklers so it may well be that all events were not legally registered.
There must be an answer somewhere.
Judy
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The Scottish tinker or "traveller", Duncan Williamson, was one of our leading traditional story-tellers.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/duncan-williamson-400127.html
Harry
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A fascinating link. Thanks Harry.
The genes of story-telling are in my family also, especially as we had the Marshalls marrying the Williamsons. There are lots of stories told in Galloway too which have held me spell-bound for years. :)
Oh I so wish I could understand the "cant".
Judy
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Hi Judy
Try this link
http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/STELLA/STARN/crit/langtrav.htm
Yours Aye
BruceL
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A very interesting article. Thank you so much Bruce.
My Williamsons appear to have settled down c1860 but the generation before, the Marshalls mentioned elsewhere on this site, were whitesmiths and hawkers of Japanned ware.
I had a second cousin who could tell a good story too so the tradition continues.
I will try to substantiate this by attaching a newspaper cutting later.
Judy
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Well here goes. I do hope you are able to read this article, the detail is towards the end of the text. Mr Ernest Deakin's obituary was also written in the same vein.
With thanks to The Lichfield Mercury who originally printed this article.
Judy
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My Williamsons are from Ayrshire and I have no pre-1900 info on them beyond being in the Ardrossan / Saltcoats area
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I just stumbled across this message board, and being a Williamson who's only the second generation to be born outside of Peebles in my family I can support some of the peebles-related links which is one of the most common origins listed for the name. It is also right that there are close ties to the Gunn and MacKay clans, but i'd never heard anything of the Williamsons before the 19th Century, and with it being a common patronymic name I doubted it went back much further!
Cheers for this,
Nathan Williamson
(great grandson of William Williamson, a great name if there ever was one!)
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My grandmother was Ethel Walker, nee Williamson, adopted by the Clarke family in London sometime between 1881-1891. She was born to an unwed mother, Marion Williamson, a "gentlewoman" who, i think, was sister to William Hope Williamson.
Marion was born 11 Nov 1860 to Robert Williamson/Mary Hope in Peebleshire. On the 1881 census she was a school teacher.
Ethel was born in Notting Hill, London 15 Dec 1881.
The death of Marion was 15 March 1885 of a brain tumor at 70 Wimpole St., London, the death witnessed and registered by W.H. Williamson of Beauthorne, Peebles.
Are you part of this family?
I would like to hear from you as I need to make sure that the connection I have between Ethel and Marion is correct.
Heather Harper (Canada)
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If anyone's still around I have a question.
I'm 56 years old . I have developed an interest in my biological background.
My father ( 78 and still living) was adopted by a stepfather( Nelson ) well before I was born.
My biological Grandfather(Arkley) is completely unknown to me.
Williamson is my biological GrandMother's maiden name.
I also once or twice visited my "Auntie Jessie" Williamson in Vancouver BC.
I've always been told..
1). I'm a quarter Scot.
2) I'm related to Bonnie Prince Charlie. (who isn't?)
3) My maternal ancestors hailed from the Northern islands, the Shetlands and Orkneys
4) The Irish are on average , a lessor lot
5) Thrifty is Smart and Common sense
I believe I'm related to the MacKays (Gunns)? on my Grandmother's side.
My father is of no help for info various reasons.
Is a DNA test in order? If so, just what kind?
There are sorts of options.. 37 makers, 67, 111..etc.
I would appreciate any constructive information and advice.
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Hi Philipson,
Welcome to Rootschat,
I've no great knowledge or understanding of DNA tests (which one is the best etc??) and therefore can't offer much advice on that subject other than suggest you pose your question on the Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing board on the Forum. You may get a better response there. What I will say is that if you are trying to prove a link with Scots ancestry you might be better researching your family tree. I don't know that a lot of Scots have given their DNA for these companies to put on their databases :-\
Rootschat is a fabulous website with really helpful and friendly enthusiasts who just love researching and pointing other wouldbe researchers in the right direction. I would advise you start with what you know and work backwards researching down each line of your family. You appear to know your biological grandparents names on your father's side. Do you know for instance where they married /or where they lived (you could find them on Census returns)?
The same applies to the maternal side of your family.
You can always post a query on the relevant county boards to help find more info. And you may find people who are researching the same families.
Just a wee question - Did your grandfather Arkley come from Vancouver?
A quick search on www.familysearch.org found this - https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JD8N-W52 - I don't know if this is your family or not but I thought it looked interesting. Incidentally I think the bride's place of birth might be Burra which is one of the Shetland Islands.
I hope this is yours and sets you off on your voyage down through the years.
Good luck with your search whether you choose to research or go down the DNA route,
Looby :)
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Oh my goodness! Thank you! Apparently that was too easy.
Yes sir. The link you gave MUST be my biological Grandfather based on all I already know.
Stanley.
And I could have had a different name but for circumstances.
Thank you so much Sir Loobylooayr.
Seems now I need to invest in an ancestry site to continue my Quest.
Small world huh? :-)
Thanks again from a very grateful fellow Scotsman, currently
living in Arizona USA of all places!
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I mean.. Looby
8)
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"but in fact it seems he was from Aberdeenshire.
Still, no harm done, as my Googling the name Peter Williamson did turn up lots of links to Shetlanders, apart from the psychopath!"
They only have had cycle-paths in Aberdeenshire in the last 10 years. ::) ::) ::) ;D
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Quote from Philipson
Thank you so much Sir Loobylooayr.
Seems now I need to invest in an ancestry site to continue my Quest.
Ehmm....It's Lady Loobylooayr....if you don't mind ;D ;D ;D ;D
I also found this marriage -
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JDZY-LVL
and this death
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FLTG-9BB
and wondered if this could be the aunt and her husband of whom you spoke of.
If you're planning on researching further in Scotland I would recommend www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - this is the official website which hold all births, deaths,marriages and Census records for Scotland. It is a pay as you go website where you can buy credits to use online. £7 buys 30 credits (I've no clue what that will be in dollars) and 6 credits will allow you to view and print the original entries. Of course, you have to be wary or you can spend your money very quickly looking at wrong entries. Familysearch is also a good free site but it does have lots of gaps (not many Scottish records after 1880's).
Good luck with tracing your roots,
From a wee Scottish lassie in Ayrshire,
Looby :)
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Hi All :)
Philipson, there are a number of trees on the Arkley family that you could access via the mundia.com site (free to register and use for now) - see www.mundia.com/ca/Person/14511412/394366458
No idea how this connects :P www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Robert-Armad-Harriet-Alice-Harvey-Press-Photo-/111019938364 but thought you might want to see it, if you hadn't come across it before.
Also, a further snippet here www.library.ubc.ca/archives/hdcites/hdcites7.html for Stanley (under THE TITLE AND DEGREE OF DOCTOR OF LAWS (honoris causa) CONFERRED AT CONGREGATION, MAY 28, 1976. STANLEY TREMAINE ARKLEY).
Monica
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" Ehmm....It's Lady Loobylooayr....if you don't mind ;D ;D ;D ;D"
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A pox upon me madame. :-)
I beg forgiveness.
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To the Lady looby --
and the bonnie lass, Monica.
Much thanks. Your generous advice and counsel was
invaluable to me. This started on a lark, but is beginning to snowball.
All the sites you both found were spot on.
Many many thanks. If I could ever be of any possible help to you or anything
you wanted to know that I could answer you please post me here.
Philip's son.
PS. (Three of the most stupid things tourist Americans say to Scots.)
1. When is the weather going to clear up?
2. What's really going on underneath there?
3. Do you know the Queeen?
:D :D :D
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I've stumbled in here quite by accident, and a happy one it may yet be.
As far as genealogy research goes, my Williamson line has been brick-walled at my G-G-Grandfather. John McCurdy Williamson, for the 30 years I have been searching. All I had for a long time was a birthdate 14 Feb 1819, in Georgia or Tennessee, USA.
Some 8 or 9 years back one of my fathers cousins found an old family bible among her mothers things when said mother passed away, that bible gave us names for the parents of my GGGrandfather.
John Williamson (how common can it get?) and Harriet McCurdy.
US census records show John M's mother born in South Carolina (always the same), while his father is variously reported as born in Ireland, or in Virginia, USA.
The story has always been that the Williamson and McCurdy lines are Scots-Irish, for whatever that's worth. I have not been able to track either John or Harriet so far, and John McCurdy Williamson, other than the birthdate of 1819, is a mystery prior to 1863, when he married, except for some Mexican War enlistment records from 1847 in Central Tennessee.
DNA testing, and I have done a lot of it, has provided me with some leads on Williamson families in the US, mostly back to Virginia, just no paper trail yet. It also however has given me some 'distant cousin' indicators to some Williamson's in the Peebles and Glasgow area of Scotland, and I frequently run across some matches to some Frames also in that same area.
That DNA evidence in hand, I am inclined to believe the family stories of Scottish ancestry by way of Ireland.
My haplogroup designation is a bit rare, and deeper checking would say that before Scotland the male line probably came from one of the Nordic countries, with several distant matches in Norway and Sweden.
We're pretty sure who the McCurdy line was, atDNA evidence confirms it, but again, no paper trail to tie Harriet to the family, so it's still 'guess work' until something turns up.
I was looking to see which clan, if any, those Border Williamson's might have belonged to, if anyone has any idea?
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I was looking to see which clan, if any, those Border Williamsons might have belonged to, if anyone has any idea?
They probably didn't belong to any clan.
The clans, properly speaking, were a social feature of the Gaelic-speaking Highlands, not of the whole of Scotland. In fact most Lowland Scots in say the 16th and 17th centuries probably thought of clans, if they thought of them at all, as wild, dangerous and to be avoided if at all possible, and would have been horrified at the suggestion that they themselves were members of any clan.
These days the concept of a clan has been extended somewhat to include the great Border families and some Lowland ones, and the Brigadoon industry has discovered that clans are a good marketing tool and have ascribed all sorts of surnames to various clans, usually on rather tenuous grounds.
For example, you will find lists saying, 'If your name is x you belong to Clan y and can wear (i.e. buy from us) that tartan'. If you look up Adamson the list will tell you that you belong to Clan Gordon. However a moment's thought will remind you that Adam is a biblical name, used all over the English-speaking world, and that consequently there must be many sons or descendants of Adams without a drop of Scottish blood.
Likewise if you try Taylor, you will probably be told that you belong to Clan Cameron. This is based on the fact that a family of this name were known to be adherents of Clan Cameron. But if you think about it Taylor is an occupational surname, and there must be millions of Taylors whose tailor ancestor had no connection whatever to Scotland, let alone to any clan.
If your research takes you back to a person who can be shown to be a member of a clan, that's great, but don't waste your time looking for a clan connection that almost certainly doesn't exist at all. If youre surname is Williamson and you are determined to belong to a clan, then the obvious name is MacWilliam.
I am proud to be of 100% Scottish ancestry as far as I have traced it to date (to the 16th century in some lines) and I have to go back five generations to find an ancestress with a surname belonging to a genuine historic Highland clan.
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Jim, I had MacCurdy relations in West Lothian, they came originally from Bute where this name originates. From there to Ulster seems likely.
Skoosh.
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I got the stuff about "septs" from a website (by googling williamson and clan). It just means a division or offshoot, I think. The trouble is that "Williamson" is an extremely common patronymic which would have arisen all over the UK independently, so proving one's descent from those who were part of Scottish clans would be difficult. If you've got back far enough to establish a link, good for you.
Ref williamson clan which in gealeac was mac William son of william aglisized williamson
the clan was scattered as the clan chief tried to size the the throne of Scotland in either 900 or 1100 AD
hence no clan members of the clan. we were protected by clan gun or clan mackay hence the septs
also the williamson in Ireland were sent to ulster during the plantation so the irish williamson are of scots decent the English williamson so we're from the saxon and Norman name wilhelm and the sons became son of wilhelm williamson I am an ulster williamson you can tell if the are of scots descent if the are Presbyterian and if they are Catholic they inter married in the south of Ireland they are of english/Norman mainly around Dublin
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The important point to remember is that not all Williams belonged to a clan, so not all sons of William were the sons of clansmen. Although there are Williamsons attached to, or under the protection of, this or that clan, you cannot assume that any particular Williamson family ever had anything to do with any clan.
Unless you can definitely trace your own line back to a Williamson who can be proved to be a member of a family with clan links, you are much better just to forget about clans, and concentrate on the facts you can prove.
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Just back to re-read all this...
Nothing new in the way of successful research for me so far..
auDNA is only reliable so far back, so I've not had luck proving any UK connections yet.
yDNA does provide plenty of evidence that my Williamson line is tied to folks from Peebleshire, Lanarkshire, Stirlingshire and Perthshire.
Still not likely to be of much use to me unless I get this darned time-machine working so I can go back and interview some known ancestors...
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Hi Jim and best wishes of the season.
The Williamsons; my gt gt grandfather was a John Williamson who came from Ireland to Stranraer, S.W. Scotland in c1842; is my BRICKWALL. He married my gt gt Grandmother in a CATHOLIC service in 1855. The family name has been handed down throughout my cousins but not me, which is a shame. He had 2 sons living when he married my gt gt grandmother. I think they stayed in Scotland but can't be sure.
There must be records somewhere in Ireland surely. I know his father and mother's name.
I was told the Williamsons originally came from the Shetland Isles.
Carry on searching.
Judy
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The Williamsons; my gt gt grandfather was a John Williamson who came from Ireland to Stranraer, S.W. Scotland in c1842; is my BRICKWALL. He married my gt gt Grandmother in a CATHOLIC service in 1855.
Judy, did he die in Scotland? Because if so, his death certificate should tell you the names of his parents, including his mother's maiden surname.
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Judy, did he die in Scotland? Because if so, his death certificate should tell you the names of his parents, including his mother's maiden surname.
There must be records somewhere in Ireland surely. I know his father and mother's name.
For such an early date there may not be records of his family in Ireland. You'll need to know where the family lived (parish if not actual townland) then see what church records might survive (not all records are online).
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The Williamsons; my gt gt grandfather was a John Williamson who came from Ireland to Stranraer, S.W. Scotland in c1842; is my BRICKWALL. He married my gt gt Grandmother in a CATHOLIC service in 1855.
Judy, did he die in Scotland? Because if so, his death certificate should tell you the names of his parents, including his mother's maiden surname.
Thank you Forfarian and Aghadowey for your continued interest in my "Brickwall". I am sure you have helped me on this site before and I greatly appreciate all the advice previously given.
Strangely enough I have never requested his death certificate. He died in Stranraer c1877. His marriage certificate from 1855 was very informative and gave me his place of birth "the north of Ireland" and his parents were John Williamson and Helen McColville.
I've visited Stranraer and discovered very friendly "cousins" but no one knows from where our John Williamson originated.
Maybe I should cross over to Larne one day and visit some Catholic churches but it's like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Judy
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Here's an old thread of yours looking for the Williamson/McConville marriage-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=219936.msg1319438#msg1319438
A few things to think about-
1) 'Helen' was probably originally Ellen in Ireland (that version of the name much more common in Ireland)
2) although they married in a Catholic ceremony it's possible that John (or even Helen) could originally been Protestant so if the church records go back to the date of the marriage might be worth checking baptisms shortly before the ceremony
3) very recently Irish Catholic parish registers have been put online but you need to search by parish (and records may not cover the date you need)
http://www.nli.ie/en/parish-register.aspx
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Thank you for directing me to an old thread. You see I had given up with John Williamson, perhaps thinking he didn't want to be researched! That link to the Irish Parish Records could be very useful if I knew from where he came.
I had found that John had 2 living sons (entered on the marriage certificate of 1855) and was a widower. There is a John Williamson (vagrant) with a wife Margaret and 2 sons on the 1851 census living in nearby Kirkmabreck. There's no proof that these are connected but I liked to hope they were. I found a John Williamson marrying a Margaret ? on Family Search in Belfast c1830/40s but it was all very vague.
At least it encouraged me to research the Irish Potato Famine which was a terrible event.
I noticed that Christopher had helped me back then. He was a very enthusiastic contributor to Rootschat and I remember he was sadly missed when he passed away.
Thank you again for your sincere interest.
Judyx
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What were the names and ages of the 2 possible sons on 1851 census?
What age was John when he married in 1855?
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Other previous Williamson topics-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=275204
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=596815
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=222207
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=220750
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=252594
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=390220
.... (others can be found via Search option)
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Thank you for taking the trouble to find all those links. I have refreshed my memory somewhat.
I now feel rather embarrassed that I had forgotten so much. It was 8 years ago in most cases though.
There are some leads there which I never followed up so the ball's in my court again!
Thanks again.
Judy
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My wife is a volunteer guide at the Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh (RBGE). We were down there today and had a look at the Botanic Cottage which has just been painstakingly re-erected there, stone by stone, from its original location in Leith Walk, where it was threatened with demolition.
When the cottage was built in 1765 its first occupier was John Williamson, head gardener. He continued in that position for 15 years. As well as his gardening duties, Williamson was a part-time officer of Customs & Excise, at a time when smuggling was endemic all over the Scottish coast. One day in 1780 Williamson was attempting to apprehend some smugglers in Princes Street when they turned on him and beat him to death.
John Hope, Regius Keeper of the Garden, was devastated at the loss of his dear friend and colleague and set up a plaque in Williamson's memory which can still be seen on the wall of the cottage.
Harry
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Thank you Harry for that touching story. He must have been a well-loved gentleman for his friend to go to the trouble of erecting a plaque in his honour.
Judy
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Hopefully this link will work -
https://twitter.com/BotanicCottage/status/427871025104420864/photo/1
Harry
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His death-notice is third from the bottom of the page. Aged 42 when he died. There are lots of John Williamsons born around 1738 on Scotlandspeople and I don't know which one is him.
He died , 25th Sept. 1780 . of a "Brows", presumably a bruise, full marks for understatement.
Harry
Copyright image cropped.
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There's something very poignant about these very old records that gets me every time. The causes of death are stated so simply; "swelling" could this be cancer?
There seems to be a respect though for these unfortunate folk whether young or old.
Is it Boatnest Gardens or Beautiest Garden, Harry?
Judy
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It looks like Boatnest, doesn't it? I suppose that could be an attempt to spell Botanist.
Harry
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Hello All,
I've done about seven years worth of research on the genealogical roots of my surname, which is Williamson. What I have come to find is that the name originated from the son of George the Crowner, the first formally verifiable chief of Clan Gunn, his son being William of Gunn. The Clan Williamson became a sept of Clan Gunn when William Williamson (Son of William of Gunn) gained permission from the Clan Gunn Chieftain to begin his own Clan line. This is generally believed to have taken place between 1480 - 1500, since these are difficult to place as the northern clans used a method of "word of mouth" to pass their history from generation to generation, which was the tradition of their Pictish ancestors. This is outside of the symbols carved into stone, for which the Picts are known. What's crucial to remember is that the he Clan Gunn is descended from Vikings who later intermingled with Northern Scotland's Pictish tribes.
William Williamson is addressed as so being that one of the dialectic traditions of the clan systems is to form a surname that identifies your lineage, i.e. Williamson - Son of William. This would have been, and was, kept to later identify the clan you're affiliated with and its origin from the ancient ancestral line of William of Gunn, outside of the Tartan system. The Williamson's did well in it's role as a sept of Clan Gunn, but I have found no documentation of recognition from the crown regarding clan legitimacy and gaining a formal seat within the peerage system. At least not through my direct line to William, this could be different regarding the McKay line.
In regard to the Williamson's immigration to Ireland, this happened after the family had set roots in Fifeshire, and had done so around the time of the English Civil war where Oliver Cromwell usurped control of the state from Charles the I and executed him in 1642. The Williamson's along with many other Scottish Clans fought on the side of the royalists to reinstate Charles the II to the throne being that he was of Scottish decent and the peerage system added legitimacy to the clan system as well. Samuel Williamson, the ancestor that I am directly descended from, immigrated from Fifeshire to Ulster in 1720 where many Presbyterians were migrating to in order to distance themselves from the religious turmoil in England and Scotland. In 1723 he immigrated to Pennsylvania, where a great number of Scottish Presbyterians had settled. This began one of the many lines of Williamson's in America. Samuels Son, Moses Williamson, gave birth to my (x5) Great-Grand Father Thomas Williamson who fought in the Revolutionary war. Moses was also brother to Hugh Williamson, my (x5) Great-Uncle who was the first representative of North Carolina and helped to draft and sign the Constitution, unfortunately both of Hugh's sons died from what they have just labeled a "Sickness, so his line ended. So, from this point on the Williamson's continued their slow journey west through the generations.
I have more detailed research, but for the sake of my fingers...I digress. I hope my summation helped tell a little bit of the story, and helped shed light on your lineage as well.
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Hello All,
I've done about seven years worth of research on the genealogical roots of my surname, which is Williamson. What I have come to find is that the name originated from the son of George the Crowner, the first formally verifiable chief of Clan Gunn, his son being William of Gunn. The Clan Williamson became a sept of Clan Gunn when William Williamson (Son of William of Gunn) gained permission from the Clan Gunn Chieftain to begin his own Clan line. This is generally believed to have taken place between 1480 - 1500, since these are difficult to place as the northern clans used a method of "word of mouth" to pass their history from generation to generation, which was the tradition of their Pictish ancestors. This is outside of the symbols carved into stone, for which the Picts are known. What's crucial to remember is that the he Clan Gunn is descended from Vikings who later intermingled with Northern Scotland's Pictish tribes.
William Williamson is addressed as so being that one of the dialectic traditions of the clan systems is to form a surname that identifies your lineage, i.e. Williamson - Son of William. This would have been, and was, kept to later identify the clan you're affiliated with and its origin from the ancient ancestral line of William of Gunn, outside of the Tartan system. The Williamson's did well in it's role as a sept of Clan Gunn, but I have found no documentation of recognition from the crown regarding clan legitimacy and gaining a formal seat within the peerage system. At least not through my direct line to William, this could be different regarding the McKay line.
In regard to the Williamson's immigration to Ireland, this happened after the family had set roots in Fifeshire, and had done so around the time of the English Civil war where Oliver Cromwell usurped control of the state from Charles the I and executed him in 1642. The Williamson's along with many other Scottish Clans fought on the side of the royalists to reinstate Charles the II to the throne being that he was of Scottish decent and the peerage system added legitimacy to the clan system as well. Samuel Williamson, the ancestor that I am directly descended from, immigrated from Fifeshire to Ulster in 1720 where many Presbyterians were migrating to in order to distance themselves from the religious turmoil in England and Scotland. In 1723 he immigrated to Pennsylvania, where a great number of Scottish Presbyterians had settled. This began one of the many lines of Williamson's in America. Samuels Son, Moses Williamson, gave birth to my (x5) Great-Grand Father Thomas Williamson who fought in the Revolutionary war. Moses was also brother to Hugh Williamson, my (x5) Great-Uncle who was the first representative of North Carolina and helped to draft and sign the Constitution, unfortunately both of Hugh's sons died from what they have just labeled a "Sickness, so his line ended. So, from this point on the Williamson's continued their slow journey west through the generations.
I have more detailed research, but for the sake of my fingers...I digress. I hope my summation helped tell a little bit of the story, and helped shed light on your lineage as well.
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A number of years ago, before my genealogy interest, I purchased a Williamson family history chart from a stall at a vintage steam rally. Since researching my Williamson line I have become intrigued to learn that most info on this chart is basically factual, and fits in with my own research, to date.
Long shot since this is such an old thread but I'd be interested in details of the history on your chart. There are a number of coats of arms with similar outlines to yours, though varying in colours and sometimes details, linked with Williamson families, several of which are from or linked to the parish of Crosthwaite in Cumberland.
My likely Crosthwaite Williamson ancestors are here http://www.ianewilliamson.co.uk/gen/lines/WilliamsonC/WilliamsonCStory.html
Would be good to get in touch.
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I am so glad I happened to come across this thread. I have recently discovered ancestors - William Williamson and his wife, Catherine Campbell Williamson - that I need lots of help in researching. I have found very little on William at all as far as discovering any of his ancestors.
The following is an excerpt I read in a book entitled History of North Carolina volume vi:
William Williamson, the father of Isabella, had an interesting and adventurous career. He was a man of fine education, his home being in Glasgow, Scotland. Before leaving his native country, he engaged in teaching English, Latin, and Mathematics, first in private families and later in colleges, but when he had won the love of Catherine Campbell, the niece and adopted daughter of the Duke of Argyle, to the extent that she was willing to go with him to the ends of the earth and the proposed match proving unsatisfactory to the Duke on the ground that Williamson was only a teacher and not the owner of an estate, the married couple sailed for America and landed on the Island of Jamaica, where they remained for two years and afterwards, landing at Wilmington, came up the Cape Fear River to Campbellton, afterwards Fayetteville where they located. Here William Williamson engaged in teaching while he was permitted to remain in America, but when the subject of independence began to be agitated, the British soldiers after investigation, were heard to remark that man’s head might overturn a government, and so Williamson and Rev. John McLeod, a Presbyterian minister, were taken under guard, carried to Wilmington, and placed on a vessel to be deported to Scotland. Nothing more was ever known about the vessel after sailing and it was supposed to be lost at sea.
Catherine (Campbell) Williamson and her two daughters were visiting friends near the McLauchlin home twenty miles west from Fayetteville when the husband and father were taken to be seen by them no more. William Williamson left many interesting and valuable papers and documents which would now be of considerable historical value, but all were lost in the confusion of the times, except portions of a diary which he kept before leaving Scotland.
Again, I know very little about William, my sixth great grandfather, other than excerpts that say essentially just this. According to Ancestry, he was born in 1749, but I am unsure of exactly where. I would greatly appreciate any information anyone might have for me.
Thank you so much!
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Botanist Gardens sounds right! ;D
Skoosh.
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https://electricscotland.com/history/world/oldbluff.htm
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The Regulators were divided in their sympathies, and it was impossible to find a Gaelic-speaking minister, clothed with authority, to go among the Highlanders. Even if such a personage could have been found, the effort would have been counteracted by the influence of John McLeod, their own minister. His sympathies, though not boldly expressed, were against the interests of the Thirteen Colonies, and on account of his suspicious actions was placed under arrest, but discharged May 11, 1776, by the Provincial Congress, in the following order:
"That the Rev. John McLeod, who was brought to this Congress on suspicion of his having acted inimical to the rights of America, be discharged from his further attendance."
https://www.electricscotland.com/history/highlands/chapter5.htm
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has this thread gone awry ?
Here's modern Williamson family but with a connection to PEEBLES.
Charles Williamson born 1870 – 1895 somewhere in Scotland.
A packing case manufacturer with premises in High Street, Glasgow in 1911.
married – twice.
m. Jeanie Colquhoun
children; some birth dates approximate – all thought to be in Glasgow – residence
at Tradeston & Gorbals in South-side of Glasgow.
1910 Elizabeth m Murdo / Murdoch, daughter Elizabeth b 1946 Glasgow
1912 Thomas had a son Charles, lived in Drumchapel, Glasgow – Thomas
moved to PEEBLES. ( not known if he had relatives there )
1913 Jean
1915- 2001 Agnes m. William Pyne. lived Glasgow, Drumchapel, then Kilwinning, where Willie Pyne died, then moved to Southampton to live near her son Wullie Pyne. ( both died Southampton)
1920 – 2001 Rachel Robertson Hair born Glasgow. Married John Grieve Hair at SALTCOATS.
Rachel was my wife’s mother.
Details from Scotland's People and family memories.