RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: Ange39nz on Wednesday 25 January 06 08:17 GMT (UK)
-
I would love to find relatives of my late father CHARLES ARCHIBALD CORBETT, b. 1918.
My father's birth was registered in Pontypridd, GLAMORGAN, Wales. Very little has been spoken of his family due to tragic circumstances, ending in murder and execution, that occurred in 1931.
As for my father's family, I have only found this information after his death as he wouldn't speak of it. There was a rumour and he had confirmed this to my mother. I looked into it further and have since received newspaper reports from the British Library:
His parents were WILLIAM JOHN CORBETT, a coal miner - hewer in Glamorgan, Wales and ETHEL LOUISA JONES. The address on my father's birth certificate was 3 SOUTH PANDY Rd, CAERPHILLY. I don't know their exact birth dates but am estimating it to be in the mid 1890s.
Ethel had an daughter at the time of their 1917 marriage. She was unaware that William was not her father until 1931.
Some time around late 1930 William lost his job and became mentally unstable with not being able to provide for his family. Apparantly he made a few suicide attempts.
In March 1931 an domestic dispute broke between William, Ethel and the oldest daughter. It escelated to the extreme where William had a razor to the daughter's throat and was certainly about to kill her. Ethel, who was pregnant, intervened and WIlliam cut her throat. He then went for the daughter. However, with a severed wind pipe and jugular, Ethel managed to throw herself onto William and pull him off her daughter before falling back, dead. The daughter was able to make her escape.
William was tried at SWANSEA and executed by hanging at CARDIFF PRISON in August 1931.
Ethel and WIllilam had 6 children, my father Charles, being the oldest. From newspaper clippings and Ethel's obituary I have found that the names of his siblings. I also know 2 of his siblings names.
Witnesses at William's trial were DOROTHY WELL (neighbour) and JOHN VENN (friend). The arresting constable was WILLIAM BOWEN.
Ethel's funeral was attended by: EDGAR JONES (brother), HAROLD JONES (brother) MRS JOHN JONES (mother - who also appears in the court records as Mrs M JONES), BRINLEY CORBETT (brother in law and his wife), RICHARD CORBETT (b-i-law), LIONEL JONES (nephew) and a number of other relatives (nieces, aunts, etc) with names such as LAWRENCE, LYNES, GLEE, HOWELLS, WALTERS, MORGAN, DAVIES, NASH, WILLIAMS and WALL.
Sorry this is so long. I know it's a long shot but I have very little to go on other than the newspaper reports. I would love to find out if I have any close relatives still living. I believe one of his sisters lived in Canada and the other (Sally) died in Spain. They are the only ones I remember my father having any contact with at all.
MODERATOR COMMENT: Original post edited to protect identity of living people or their offspring.
Rootschat has the right to edit posts that are thought to contain information that maybe linked to living people whose express permission has not been granted to publish such information.
There are many ways to trace living relatives using publicly available telephone directories, "friends" websites (e.g. alumini sites, school sites etc), local newspapers. There are also services provided in the UK by the Salvation Army to help trace close relatives.
Salvation Army Tracing Service (http://www1.salvationarmy.org.uk/uki/www_uki.nsf/vw-dynamic-index/79FF668A8768F77480256F19005BE0C0?Opendocument)
Rootschat does not encourage the posting of specific information on living people but users may help with methodologies.
-
Hi Ange, and welcome to RootsChat.
I can't shed any light on your immediate questions, but I was intrigued by the story and tried to see if I could find anything about any of the participants.
This is SO speculative that I'm almost embarrassed to report it ::) but here goes, anyway!
Jones, of course, is a very difficult name to find in Wales, so I thought I'd start with the most unusual name amongst those you mentioned: Brinley Corbett.
There is just one birth on FreeBMD: Brinley Ewart Corbett, born Dec q 1905 (11a/83) in Bedwelty, Monmouthshire (district includes Aberystruth, Aberystruth Brynmawr, Bedwelty, Rock Bedwelty, Tredegar).
Too late for the 1901 census, alas, but I looked for Corbetts living in the general area and came up with the following:
1901
87 Queen St, Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Edward Corbett, 26, Hereford, Herefordshire, Head, haulier in mine below
Sarah Corbett, 24, Herefordshire, Wife
Charles Corbett, 6, Herefordshire, Son
Richard H Corbett, 4, Nantyglo, Monmouthshire, Son
William J Corbett, 1, Blaena, Monmouthshire, Son
Arthur Denman, 18, Manchester, Boarder, labourer in mine below
Edwin Wall, 17, Herefordshire, Boarder, labourer in mine below
Two of the names match (Richard and William J) and I noticed there was a Wall in the household (another of your names at the funeral).
Found the following marriage:
Sept q 1895, Hereford 6a/914
Corbett, Edward
Wall, Esther Sarah
As I say - sheer speculation, and make of it what you will!!
Cheers,
Ros
-
Hi again,
I believe I have found the Jones family in 1901.
I found the following at
http://www.murderfile.net/names/corb31.htm
William John Corbett
Age:- 32
Date of Execution:- Wednesday, 12th August, 1931
Location of Execution:- Cardiff
Hangman:- Not Known
Assistants:- Not Known
Tried At:- Swansea
Trial Dates:- 2nd July, 1931
Trial Judge:- Mister Commissioner Walker
Crime:- Murder
Victims:-
Name:- Ethel Louisa Corbett
Age:- 39
Location of Murder:- 48 Caer Bragdy, off Lawrence Street, Caerphilly
Date of Murder:- Wednesday, 25th March, 1931
Method of Murder:- Cut Throat
Relationship to Killer:- Wife
This gives their ages (William's ties in with the census entry I gave earlier).
Found on 1901:
1901
Bradford St, Caerphilly, Eglwysilan, Glamorgan
John Jones, 56, Dixton, Monmouthshire, Head, general labourer
Matilda Jones, 46, Cwmcarvan, Monmouthshire, Wife
Francis Jones, 18, Dixton, Monmouthshire, Son, coal miner
Edgar Jones, 13, Raglan, Monmouthshire, Son, grocer’s assistant
James Jones, 11?, Dixton, Monmouthshire, Son
Thomas Jones, 11, Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Son
Ethel Jones, 9, Mynyddislwyn, Monmouthshire, Daughter
Winifred Jones, 6, Dingestow, Monmouthshire, Daughter
Harold Jones, 2, Raglan, Monmouthshire, Son
Birth from FreeBMD:
March q 1892, Newport M 11a/280
Jones, Ethel Louisa
District Newport M includes Mynyddslwyn.
Cheers,
Ros
-
Me again,
Marriage March q 1882, Monmouth 11a/29
John JONES
Matilda NASH (another of the names from the funeral!)
8)
-
Hiya Ros! YES!!! You have come up with names that are on the obituary. I've had some insight into the census records too and have managed to come up with the same things so this confirms it nicely for me. Names, places, dates...all match! I've also found that Matilda Jones / Nash was a servant at one point called Matilda Nash, and she was a widow. Ten years later she's living with her husband, John Jones (am I remembering the names correctly? My head is buzzing!) and there was also a step daughter to the head called Gertrude Nash. It seems that Gertrude was Ethel's half sister - Matilda's daughter. We're still trying to find out where she was in the earlier census because she had been born at the time.
I see you've included the summary from murderfile.net. I contacted the author last year and he kindly sent me the full chapter that he'd written in the book and pointed me in the direction of the British Library. It was a shock to find out just what had happened. My father was a very distant, eccentric man (we put it down to being a POW of the Japanese) and never talked about his family. It was my mother who let slip a few years ago that his mother had been murdered and his father hanged. Up until last year, that was all I knew.
Dad died December 2004 and my goal, if at all possible, is to return his ashes to Wales and maybe even scatter them where his mother is buried. The obituary from the newspaper clippings says where she's buried. It's a long way off yet though as I'm in New Zealand and my children are still young. But one day....
I must write this down correctly! I have scraps of paper with notes scribbled down everywhere!
Thank you so much for looking into it for me. You've been VERY helpful!
God bless
Angela
-
Hi Angela,
Happy to have been some help.
What a ghastly thing for your father to have lived with and I think it is a lovely idea to take his ashes back to Wales.
Good luck with finding your half sister!
Ros
PS I'm in NZ too ...
-
Hi again,
I notice that Gertrude Nash was born in Sheffield c 1877. There is a marriage Dec q 1874 (9c/800) between George Nash and Matilda Williams (another of the names - though hardly surprising to find a Williams at a Welsh funeral!).
Found the following (your Matilda, do you think?):
1861
Cwmcarvan, Monmouthshire
Luke Williams, 30, Lanishen, Monmouthshire, Head, labourer
Eliza Williams, 34, Langoven, Monmouthshire, Wife
Emma Williams, 13, Cwmcarvan, Monmouthshire, Daughter
Elizabeth Williams, 8, Cwmcarvan, Monmouthshire, Daughter
Matilda Williams, 6, Cwmcarvan, Monmouthshire, Daughter
Mary Williams, 3, Lanishen, Monmouthshire, Daughter
John Williams, 1, Cwmcarvan, Monmouthshire, Son
Now I really must go and do some work!
Cheers,
Ros
-
Oh my GOSH! How did you DO that??!!? I'm gob smacked! I will check back through all my scraps of papers, my untidy computer files and my family tree on Genes Reunited and double check if all the dates and places tie in with Matilda nad Gertrude.
My GOSH! If this is correct you've just found an extra SEVEN PEOPLE for me!! I'm really impressed!
Thank you so much for all your help and yes, I will let you go and do some work now - I should do the same :-))
Ange
-
I hunted for a marriage between ? Nash and Matilda? between 1870-77 in Sheffield. Sheer luck! Hope it pans out - though researching a Williams is going to be nearly as bad a researching a Jones!
Cheers,
Ros
-
Hi, I am hoping you're still following up the Jones/Corbett murder and associated families.
When I read the item it sent some shivers up my spine as I am the Great Grandson of Gertrude Nash and have been researching our family for a while, and have just started on the murder she had mentioned to me.
Most of the names you have mentioned on the Jones / Nash side I am familiar with through some notes I have taken from my great grand mother's bible. I can fill you in on the family background as she was alive until 1970 she was 96 when she died and I knew her well. She occasionally mentioned the murder in the family. I have some photo's you may be interested in.
As you are from NZ you may want to hop across the pond to Oz as there are Joneses living there! I'm thrilled at the possibility of finding some more 'relatives'
Iechyd da
osseij
-
You might be able to point me in the right direction.
My great grandfather born in wales 1902, Alexander Bert Corbett, all i know is he was born a bastard, he died in hertfordshire, my nan didnt know nothing of his family. My great grandfathers wife was called Elizabeth Matilda Corbett (was Collins) and they had a child Margaret Patricia Corbett (my nan)
Could this be linked?
-
First of all Katrina I'd like to wish you a very warm welcome to Rootschat.I take it your Great-Grandfather died in St Albans Hertfordshire in 1977.Now his death record on Ancestry gives his Birthdate as the 3rd of March 1903.Do you hold his Marriage Certificate of his marriage to Elizabeth Matilda Collins?Normally a Marriage Certificate would give the father's name.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
Hi and welcome to RootsChat.
(the marriage certificate would not necessarily have the father's name of an illegitimate child)
This is interesting
it seems the marriage of Elizabeth Matilda Collins and Alexander Bert took place in Kent -but Alexander had 2 surnames -maybe he chanc=ged his name -or mum married and he took her married name
I would think the marriage cert is essential
Marriage reg
Sept Qtr 1931
Lewisham
Kent
Elizabeth M Collins
Alexander B Corbett
Alexander B Stephens
1d 2850
Suz
-
Well this is just it, his father was not on the birth certificate, he was an illigitimate child, he did have a brother named tom Corbett though, i dont have details as of yet but will try my hardest.
Two surnames? yeah that is odd (his mothers name was Agnes Stephens) its hard to find out info as my nan was young when her mother (agnes) died
Thanks for replying though, can be really difficult finding help
-
Sorry, Agnes Stephens was my nans grandmother lol
all these names
-
Interestingly there is given the Birth in the January Quarter of 1903 of an Alexander Bert Stephens,his birth is recorded in the Monmouth District of Monmouthshire.The GRO Birth Index reference is Volume 11a page31.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
-
It does seem the birth record of Alexander bert Stephens is Alexander Bert Corbett
probably his mother married after his birth and Alexander took that name
Is the birth cert you have in the surname Stephens??
Suz
-
i am anthony corbett grandson of bryn corbett i knew your farther charlie and your mother when they lived in wales up graig y rhacca my grandfather was the brother of the hanged man he never spoke much about it. it would be nice to correspond with you. i have two children living in perth australia if you my email adress is (*). i only live a mile from where the murder took place hope to hear from you soon all the best
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
Hi Growmore
Welcome to RootsChat
it is Rootschat policy to not post details of the living (identity theft etc) and also not to post e addresses (spam etc)
so the mods may delete some of your post -but don't worry - when you have made 3 posts you can use the PM facility
so just make short replies and you will soon be able to message privately
Suz
-
Hi,
I'm Sharon (Anthonys daughter). I'm living in Perth Western Australia. If you would like to get in touch, you can look me up on facebook under the name "sharon stuart morgan" 8)
-
i am anthony corbett i am hoping to get the corbett history going back to
17 70 yr i will try some how to get the history to you all the best a corbett
-
if mitsymakes 2 more posts you cqan use the PM facility and exchange e mail addresses away from the public eye -if, of course, you both wish to do that
Suz
-
thanks suzard, will do that :)
-
i am anthony corbett i have our family tree going back to 16-71 her name is jane corbett the list i have is a bit jumbled i dont know how i can get family list to you my rootschat name is growmore
-
Interesting thread on Aust Board re B E Corbett ... perhaps a connection
Cheers JM
-
Interesting thread on Aust Board re B E Corbett ... perhaps a connection
Cheers JM
Australian thread here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,592284.0.html
-
I am the grandson of bryn corbett brother of the hanged man i still live less than half a mile from the place the murder happened my name is anthony corbett i live in bedwas
-
Hi Ange, and welcome to RootsChat.
I can't shed any light on your immediate questions, but I was intrigued by the story and tried to see if I could find anything about any of the participants.
This is SO speculative that I'm almost embarrassed to report it ::) but here goes, anyway!
Jones, of course, is a very difficult name to find in Wales, so I thought I'd start with the most unusual name amongst those you mentioned: Brinley Corbett.
There is just one birth on FreeBMD: Brinley Ewart Corbett, born Dec q 1905 (11a/83) in Bedwelty, Monmouthshire (district includes Aberystruth, Aberystruth Brynmawr, Bedwelty, Rock Bedwelty, Tredegar).
Too late for the 1901 census, alas, but I looked for Corbetts living in the general area and came up with the following:
1901
87 Queen St, Aberystruth, Monmouthshire
Edward Corbett, 26, Hereford, Herefordshire, Head, haulier in mine below
Sarah Corbett, 24, Herefordshire, Wife
Charles Corbett, 6, Herefordshire, Son
Richard H Corbett, 4, Nantyglo, Monmouthshire, Son
William J Corbett, 1, Blaena, Monmouthshire, Son
Arthur Denman, 18, Manchester, Boarder, labourer in mine below
Edwin Wall, 17, Herefordshire, Boarder, labourer in mine below
Two of the names match (Richard and William J) and I noticed there was a Wall in the household (another of your names at the funeral).
Found the following marriage:
Sept q 1895, Hereford 6a/914
Corbett, Edward
Wall, Esther Sarah
As I say - sheer speculation, and make of it what you will!!
Cheers,
Ros
-
I am anthony corbett grandson of brinley corbett' I have met you a couple of times when you came over with your mother and charlie when he had a house in graig-a-rhacca. I dont know how i can get in touch i am still living in caerphilly area about a mile from south pandy in bedwas
-
Hi Anthony
Angela, the original poster, hasn't been online here since 2009. I've sent her a personal message about your posts.
If she has changed email addresses she won't get the message but fingers crossed she comes back soon.
Dawn
-
Hi dawn thank you for trying i am not used to doing this roots i dont know how to get her email thank you again
anthony
-
Hi Anthony
I'm sorry but even the moderators don't have access to email addresses.
If her address has changed or she has switched off notifications she won't know we have posted.
It's a waiting game.
Dawn
-
how do you get in touch if no emails are allowed i dont get this
thanks anthony corbett
-
Thank you so much for your reply. I aplogise for taking so long - I haven't been on Roots Chat for a very long time. Yes, I've located my half sister and am in regular contact with her daughter. I'm planning a trip to Wales next year (2013) and intend to take my father's ashes there.
I would love to get in touch re: Gertrude Nash and family :D
-
Hmmm...not able to share e-mails? Tricky. I'm on Facebook if that helps. My married name is Hydes and my middle initials, JB, are used after my first name. I'm in New Zealand. Hopefully that's enough clues to get in touch without giving too much personal information away?
Angela
-
click on a person's name (on the left) and there is a facility to send a personal message (PM) with your email address in it. It is down at the bottom of the page in blue writing.
If you have a PM it will be indicated at the very top of the page in rootschat.
A person must have made three posts to use it, anything will do, hit one of the smileys above, for example and post three separate times.
-
AHHHH!!! I get it! :-D
Took me a while. Sorry...it's getting a bit late down this end of the world ;)
-
hi dawn i would like to thank you and roots i am now in touch with angenz i woundnt have done with out help thank you tony-growmore
-
At Ange's request, this topic is now locked.
If you have found this topic via a search engine and wish to contact her, you will need to send a personal message.
New members need 3 posts to access the system.
Dawn