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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: alllegs on Thursday 09 February 06 15:24 GMT (UK)

Title: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: alllegs on Thursday 09 February 06 15:24 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone,

I can't find Philip Gilleard on any census, can anyone help find him?  Apparently he is definately on the 1871 but I cannot find him!  He had a couple of jobs....Fishmonger in Huddersfield, Accountant, ship owner, fish salesman, shipping clerk...

He was born c1817 and died 1876.  He married Dougless Brittain c1838 and had 5 children
Mary Elizabeth (born 1839, Hook)
Charlotte (born 1840, Hook)
Philip Brittain (born 1842, Goole, died 1883)
Douglass (born 1843, Hook, died 1920)
Harriet Mahala (born 1845, Hook, died 1846)

He was then widowed and married Elizabeth King, they had 6 children
Lizzie (born 1854, Huddersfield)
Clara (born 1856, Hull)
Emily (born 1860, Hull)
Arthur C (born 1864, Huddersfield)
Annie (born 1866, Huddersfield)
William Henry (born 1869, Huddersfield)

I would be really interested to find Philip and his son Philip Brittain.
Philip Brittain married Mary Ann Fisher in 1866 in Great Yarmouth, they moved to Almondbury Huddersfield had at least 8 children! I have Philip Brittain Gilleard on the 1871 and 1881 but no census prior to that.  I am mostly interested in Philip's (father) occupations

Thank you for looking
Love
Legs
xxxx
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: Sisterjane on Thursday 09 February 06 15:45 GMT (UK)
1861-Gt Yarmouth St Nicholas

Phillip Gillard b 1843 Goole is a boarder in the home of James and Maryann Denton

Joe
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: Richard Knott on Thursday 09 February 06 15:46 GMT (UK)
HO107/2295/543/34
South St, Huddersfield 1851

Mary E GELBARD, 12, dau
Charlott GEBHARD, 10, dau
Philip GEBHARD, 8, son
Douglas GEBHARD, 6, son + servant

all b Goole, but no sign of the rest!
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: CatOne on Thursday 09 February 06 15:50 GMT (UK)
1891 RG12/3873 Folio 151 Page 14
Hook, Yorks

Phillip Gilleard 67 Market Gardener Hook
Mary 66 Walling.....?

Is this one yours?

Catherine  :)
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: CatOne on Thursday 09 February 06 15:53 GMT (UK)
In 1881, theres a Philip Douglas Gilead, age 18, (imbecile from birth) in Huddersfield Union Workhouse RG11/4389 Folio 131 Page 9

Regards
Catherine
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: Sisterjane on Thursday 09 February 06 15:57 GMT (UK)
Legs, Try this 1871

RG10-4363-Folio 93-Page 54

Joe
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: CatOne on Thursday 09 February 06 15:58 GMT (UK)
1861 - the rest of Philips family -

RG9/3585 Folio 68 Page 12
32 Francis Street West, West Sculcoates, Yorks

Elizabeth Gilliard 30 Lodging House Keeper Hull
Lizzie 6 Huddersfield
Clara 4 Hull
Emily 1 Hull
+ boarder Helen Smyth widow 46 Seamstress

Regards
Catherine
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: Richard Knott on Thursday 09 February 06 16:02 GMT (UK)
1861

RG9/3576/61/24
Douglass Gilleard, 16, servant to Field family in Sculcoates

RG9/1191/144/36 Gt Yarmouth
Philip Gillard, 18, b Goole; boarder with Denton family
Clerk to the Shipping Board (difficult to read)
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: alllegs on Thursday 09 February 06 16:17 GMT (UK)
Wow, thank you for all that and so quickly!

I'll have a look at it all!

Thanks again
xxxx
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: Richard Knott on Thursday 09 February 06 16:34 GMT (UK)
1871 RG10/4363/93/54
Wellington Place, Dalton, Huddersfield

Philip GILLAND (but clearly Gilleard on census), 56, unemployed commercial clerk, b Goole
Elizabeth, 40, wife, b Hull
Lizzie, 16, dau, pupil teacher, b Huddersfield
Clara, 14, dau, emplyed in stamp office b Hull
Emily, 11, dau b Hull
Arthur C, 7, son, b Hull
Annie, 5, dau, b Huddersfield
William H, 2, b Huddersfield


1861  RG9/3585/68/12   Sculcoates

Elizabeth GILLIARD, 30, wife, lodging house keeper   
Lizzie, 6, dau, b Huddersfield
Clara, 4, dau, b Hull
Emily, 1, dau, b Hull
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: alllegs on Thursday 09 February 06 16:42 GMT (UK)
Thank you rjknott,

That is definately them
xxxx
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: Richard Knott on Thursday 09 February 06 16:50 GMT (UK)
How about this for a reason as to why Philip wasn't with his wife and children in 1861?!

1861  RG9/3423/66/3
Wakefield Prison

P.G., 44, commission agent, b Goole   (prisoner)
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: alllegs on Thursday 09 February 06 17:02 GMT (UK)
WOW

Some scandal at last!

Ta muchly
xxxx
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: Richard Knott on Thursday 09 February 06 17:29 GMT (UK)
....and the prison had been (fairly) recently re-built:
http://www.wakefield.gov.uk/CultureAndLeisure/HistoricWakefield/Highlights/Buildings/WakefieldPrison/History/default.htm
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: alllegs on Sunday 23 April 06 17:12 BST (UK)
Hi,

I'm stuck again.....

We have deduced that the PG rjknott found in Wakefield Goal is our man, however we cannot find him on the 1851 or the 1841....  He's not with his family.....Is he still in gaol?  I can't work out how to find Wakefield Goal on Ancestry in 51 or 41.....

Any ideas?  We think he must have been living in Huddersfield at the time as we have birth certs for his children from Hudds, although he could have been at Francis Street, Hull (His daughter Emily was born here in 1861).

PG was in prison at the time of the 1861 census but there are no info on the Wakefield quarter sessions about the crimes he committed.  Apparently Wakefield only took offenders from the West Riding and we think he was living in Hull at the time. 
He died in Huddersfield and is buried in Almondbury, his death cert states he was a book keeper but the burial record (3 days after death) states fish dealer.  A search of the papers at that time is being carried out as I type!
The Hull quarter sessions are proving a little more difficult as they are enormous book which are not indexed.

Anyway, we think that maybe PG was a re-offender from Hull hence him being sent to Wakefield for a second sentence as re-offenders seemed to get longer/harder punishments. Maybe explaining why he was in Wakelfield in 1861 and missing in 1851.

I think thats all for now.....

I hope my message makes sense!!  I'm quite confused!

Thanks again
Love
Legs
xxxxx
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: CatOne on Sunday 23 April 06 18:14 BST (UK)
Are these yours? transcribed as Gebhard

1851 HO107/2295 Folio 543 Page 34
South Street, Huddersfield, Yorks

Mary E Gilleard dau 12 Goole
Charlotte dau 10 Goole
Phillip 8 Goole
Douglas 6 Goole
Charlotte Broughton 31 Servant Yorks Thorne?

No parents listed

Regards
Catherine
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: CatOne on Sunday 23 April 06 18:21 BST (UK)
theres also this Philip Gilliard -

HO107/2350 Folio 222 Page 6
Hook, Yorks

Philip Gilliard 28 Master Shoemaker employing one apprentice Airmin, Yorkshire
Mary 27 North Cave Yorkshire
Edward Roberts 16 apprentice Laxton Yorks

I think Hook and Airmin are quite close to Goole

Regards
Catherine
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: alllegs on Sunday 23 April 06 18:40 BST (UK)
Thank you Cat,

They are definate possibilities as PG's father Cornelius was born in Airmin.  Although PG married a Douglass in 1838 and an Elizabeth in 1853....

The children are deifnately correct, they were from his 1st marriage to Douglass....  I wonder where he and she were?

Thank you again, where the heck his PG though?!   I can't seem to find any of the family on the 1841....  PG should be there somewhere with wife Douglass and daughters Mary Elizabeth and Charlotte

Love
Legs
xxxx
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: CatOne on Sunday 23 April 06 19:06 BST (UK)
Do you have the first wifes death?

Douglass Gil-(a-)ard March 1847 Goole Vol 23 Page 225


Is Goole missing in 1841?? I've tried doing just searches for Mary/Ann/John/Smith etc (common names) and nothing at all comes up for Goole  :-\

ps. if you're looking for Cornelius in 1841 hes transcribed as Camelia Gilliand!

Catherine  :)

Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: alllegs on Sunday 23 April 06 19:13 BST (UK)
Excellent!!  I wondered why I couldn't find Cornelius either!!!

Thank you for Douglass's death, I didn't have that info.  What a horrific name for a woman!

I'm not sure if Goole is on the 41, I thought it was complete - maybe thats why I can't find them?  Grrrr...!

Thank you again.
 This is turning into a bit of a mystery!!!

Love
Legs
xxxx
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: Richard Knott on Sunday 23 April 06 20:39 BST (UK)
Wakefield prison is on HO107 2327 (50 pages).
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: panda40 on Sunday 23 April 06 20:48 BST (UK)
People residing in gaols usually come at the end of the names you are looking up on ancestry. you may have to scroll through a lot of pages to get there. you can try some of the more advance features in search to help with this good luck.
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: alllegs on Sunday 23 April 06 21:24 BST (UK)
Ta muchly everyone,

Will scroll through all 50 pages tomorrow after school!!

Thank you

Love
Legs
xxxx
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: KRC on Tuesday 21 November 06 01:11 GMT (UK)
Hello! I'm a Gilleard from West Yorkshire (now living in LA) and know quite a bit about the Gilleards in the 19th Century. My father is Douglas, grandson of Philip. I sent you an e-mail on this site when I saw your post. I wondered what relation you are? E-mail me.
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: alllegs on Tuesday 21 November 06 11:09 GMT (UK)
Hi KRC,

I have sent you a message in return!  I think I know who you are!!!

Legs
xxxx
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: sarahlrodgers on Wednesday 13 October 10 00:13 BST (UK)
Hi
I know this is a very old posting - but I'm looking for information on Mary Elizabeth Gilleard born 1839 in Goole -she had 3 children but I cannot find any husband so I think this is her maiden name.

Any information would be greatly received.

Thanks Sarah
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: CatOne on Wednesday 13 October 10 16:09 BST (UK)
Hi,

You dont say what information you already have? Do you have her on all the censuses?

Regards
Cat  :)
ps. it looks like shes in the 1851 census at the top of this page with siblings Charlotte, Phillip and Douglas
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: sarahlrodgers on Wednesday 13 October 10 17:25 BST (UK)
Hi
Sorry I was a bit vague.

I have information going backwards from 1901, where I have confirmed Mary Elizabeth is with her daughter Isabel and Son in law Charles Martin Holt.
RG13/4478/41 p 3

She is known as Mary Elizabeth Loret and I have confirmed the marriage and that she was Mary Elizabeth Gilleard prior to the marriage Yorkshire 1887 4th qtr and the 1891 showing them together after their marriage.

After this things become a little unsafe.  I have found an Elizabeth Gilliard on the 1881 with a totally wrong date of birth (she is shown as 27 but is in fact 42!) but with 3 children with names the same as my search target - Isabel (1868) with 2 brothers Joseph (1872) and Fred (1876).

RG11/4763/54 p 21

Im trying to establish whether Gilleard is a married name or whether this is her maiden name.  There is some scandal regarding Isabel as there was a twin who died and it went to inquest!

If Gilleard is Mary Elizabeths maiden name then I can finally establish her parentage.  I have found Mary Elizabeth with parents Philip and Dougless.
Whew!!!
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: CatOne on Wednesday 13 October 10 20:30 BST (UK)
Getting the marriage certificate should help with her father's name, or the birth of one of the children should confirm if Gilleard is her maiden name.

Do you have her in 1871 visiting Philip and Ellen Milton and family in Nether Hallam, Sheffield in 1871, with daughter Isabel? RG10/4664 Folio 85 Page 16
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: Ebch on Wednesday 13 October 10 21:36 BST (UK)
Do you have this one?

Nov 17 1853 at Newland - Phillip Gilleard, accountant of Huddersfield to Miss Elizabeth King of Cottingham near Hull.
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: Ebch on Wednesday 13 October 10 22:11 BST (UK)
And a few more that may fit:

On 2nd July 1838 at Holy Trinity Church Mr Philip Gilleard to Miss Douglas Brown both of this place. (Hull)

On 26 March 1876 aged 61 years Philip Gilleard, book keeper, Dalton, Huddersfield.

Gill- on 10th Sept 1896 aged 16, Fanny daughter of the late Mr Philip Briton Gilleard, Longley Hillside
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: sarahlrodgers on Thursday 14 October 10 12:53 BST (UK)
Thanks to you all for these extra titbits of information - Ive now got my work cut out, trying to match it with the people named in the tree.

Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: Susan Longbottom on Saturday 17 October 15 09:44 BST (UK)
Hi Sarah,
I have done a lot of research into the Gilleard family and can send you a family tree if you like. Are you related to Martin C Rodgers? Would be great to hear from you. Sue
Title: Re: Parents of Philip Gilleard.
Post by: NickiD on Wednesday 18 July 18 06:56 BST (UK)
Hi
Philip GILLEARD appears to be the son of Cornelius GILLEARD and Mary WHEATER m. 6 Mar 1810 in Snaith YKS. Has anyone traced Mary's side?? I also have a Mary WHEATER born in Hensall, and am struggling with her parentage as there were about 3 of them bapt Snaith but not the date I need - but she probably fibbed a little on that aspect. Is your Mary the daughter of William (Labourer of Hensall) or daughter of Thomas (Labourer of Hensall)?? Let alone the other Mary daughter of Charles (Farmer of Snaith). All bapt around 1786-1787.
According to the 1851 mine was 54y born Hensall.
Nicki
Title: Re: Where is Philip Gilleard, I can't find him on any census...
Post by: alllegs on Tuesday 11 September 18 11:37 BST (UK)
Hello Nicki,

I'm descended from Cornelius and Mary. Please email me, address is on my profile, if you want to connect x