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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: Glenpenny on Friday 10 March 06 10:09 GMT (UK)
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My 4 x g.grandfather was the miller here in 1813. I've just been browsing the web and it appears that this mill is still standing. Is there any kind soul out there who lives locally and would be good enough to take a photograph?
Glenys
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My PLAYLE family were millers there as well :)
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I've no connection that I know of with that name. Around what date was that?
Glenys
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The PLAYLE's were millers in Stebbing for around 100 years then my line left there in the early half of the 1800's as they turn up on the 1841 census in Harlow. Their Mill was well known for its French Stones.
The WHITEHEAD's were millers in Stebbing.
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Hmmmm. My information came from the baptismal record of an Eliza Bambridge in 1813 at Mill Lane Independent Chapel. Father, Daniel, was described as a miller.
In 1841 some of the family were still living in Mill Lane but this particular Daniel was at Duck End, Stebbing. I'm not too sure which part of the village this would be.
If your lot were still there in the early part of the century, either Daniel took over from them or there was more than one mill.
How can we set about finding out?
Glenys
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I have some information regarding the mills that I need to fish out. Bear with me a couple of days (have rellies up from the country for chemo) and I will get back to you. If I haven't put the info up by Friday let me know.
The other thing is ... I would need to purchase a plane ticket to the UK then hire a car to get to Stebbing :) :) I am in Western Australia !
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You've more research problems then I have then! I'm in Lancashire. Bet it's a bit warmer though, we've had our first snow for years today.
I've been on the Essex villages website where there are a couple of old directories,. There are three millers listed in 1832 so presumably three mills. The millers were named as Samuel Choppin, Joseph Dixon and Thomas Jasper.
Have also had a look on the mills archive website and there apparently is a picture of the Town Mill at Stebbing in something called SPAB Mills Section Newsletter - Issue 91 Page 1. Would cost at least a tenner though to obtain this. Not much more information for us I don't think. Will keep looking.
Glenys
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Dear Glenpanny and Fedelmar ...
Was fascinated by the topic so I though I'd have a quick look at the SEAX site at the ERO. This specific document came up which relates directly to the mill at the time you are looking at:
D/F 35/1/4
Dates of Creation 1803-1804
Scope and Content Valuer's notebook
Hardings and Repentance Farms, Greenstead and Bobbingworth, including crop details, 1800-1804; property belonging to Peter Harris, miller, Takeley including STEBBING MILL and House, including farming stock and watermill stock;
Date From 1803
Date To 1804
There is also a tith map dated circa 1830 which is stated to include drawing of the TWO mills at Stebbing. So, worth a visit to the ERO/SEAX website !
The plot thickens !!
Aye
MiddleEnglander
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Thank you for the help MiddleEnglander.
I've just spent a couple of hours trawling through Seax and it seems there were at least two watermills in addition to the two post mills on the tithe map you pointed me to. The two watermills were Bran End Mill and Stebbing Town Mill (T/Z 33/1)
I also found a reference to a release (not sure what one of these is) which connects the Playle name to Bran End Mill, (D/DGe/182) so at least Fedelmar will know where her ancestors operated.
I might just enquire about the tithe map, presumably it should lead to the names of who was responsible for the tithes on the post mills although searching for the surname Bambridge on Seax got me nowhere.
Anyone know the location of the town mill? Was this down Mill Lane? I think Bran End was/is at the further end of Stebbing from the parish church and Mill Lane but could be wrong.
Glenys
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Feldemar - I forgot to say thanks and I'm happy to wait.
Glenys
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Hi Glenpenny ....
If you haven't tried it already, go to www.old-maps.co.uk and call up Stebbing you'll be presented with section of the 1881 ordnance survey map. If you pan the box just off centre to the north and then go for the detailed view, you should be able to see all 4 mills.
Town Mill (Corn) is down a lane just to the west of the centre of Stebbing with an unnamed Windmill (Corn) on the edge of the village to the east near to Watch House.
Bran End is just to the north of Stebbing - and there stands Bran End mill on the Stebbing brook. Just to the west of the watermill is the other (unnamed) Windmill - also corn.
Hope I'm not teaching mother how to suck eggs, but the fact that all four mills where still there in 1881 is very interesting - must have been a very agriculturally rich area.
Aye
MiddleEnglander
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For some reason Thomas Jasper rings a bell (ding dong) ... I think he may have married the widow Whitehead ...
Will need to check that too :)
There is something in the Seax about the two French Stones.
I will be back :)
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MiddleEnglander - feel free to teach me to suck eggs anytime! I got so involved looking through Seax I never thought about the old maps.
Seems to me it's more likely my ancestor was at the Town Mill and that this was indeed down Mill Lane. I paid a visit to Stebbing a couple of years ago on a very rainy day and had a tramp around the Mill Lane Chapel graveyard but this was before I knew about the connection to a mill and we didn't go any further down the lane. :'(
Thank you so much for your interest. It's so useful to be able to bounce things around with someone else.
Glenys
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interested to see what you said.
My grandfather brought town mill stebbing in about 1932 and worked the mill with his brother until he retired (somewhere in the late 1950`s). My father then worked the mill until he too retired in 1997. He passed away in 1999 and the mill was then sold later that year. It has now been converted into a very nice house but still retains much of the original working gear including one set of "French Burr" stones.
Just for the record my great grandfather and my great great grandfather worked the mill as well! (although they did not live at the mill at that time).I think i am right in saying that the mill was owned by Henry Ruffel in my grandfathers younger days.
Hope this is of some interest to you.
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Would your family be called Hynds then? I have a couple of old magazine articles on the mill down Mill Lane if you are interested. If you send me a personal message with your e-mail address, I'll happily forward these to you (when I get my scanner working properly) ;)
You'll need to have a couple of more posts on these boards though before the messaging system will work for you.
Cheers, Glenys
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Wowwwww ... my old GGGGfather brought those stones ... what are the chances of me getting a photograph of them ?
Bright Blessings
Sandra (Playle)
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Glenys ... Am I able to get a copy of the article you mention?
Thanks
Sandra
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Send me a pm with your address Sandra and I'll send it to you.
No photograph of the stones though I'm afraid.
Glenys
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Yes i am one of the Hynds family, you have obviusly been doing your research! Thanks for the offer on the magazine articles, i have a few myself but may not have seen the ones you have.
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Any chance can get a copy of those too?
My old g/father PLAYLE brought the original stones ... this is all so exciting ...
Do you by any chance have a photograph of the mill today?
Bright Blessings
Sandra
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I'm Chairman of the Stebbing Local History Society and I have plenty of information about milling and millers in Stebbing.
As you note, there were a number of Mills in Stebbing parish at various times (3 different water mills and windmills on 5 different sites). Your posts relate to three of them.
John Bambridge was at a post mill called Barracks which was between Bran End and Duck End (both in the parish). He sold it in 1811 for £425 to John Cornell.
The Hynds, Ruffles etc were at the Town Mill in Mill Lane - the most important mill in the parish by far. I knew the last miller Len Hynds.
The Playles to the best of my knowledge had no connection at all with Town Mill so I dont see how a Playle would have purchased the stones for that mill. The Playle's were at Bran End Mill - John was certainly there in 1614. Another John Playle appears to still be the owner in 1814 (6 years before his death) although the miller in 1790 was a Robert Rolfe so presumably it was by then leased or could Robert have been a relative. Either way The Playles had a stormy time during their ownership with financial problems - court appearances and losing a part of the capital of one of the village charities.
Hope this helps. If any of you have old photographs of Stebbing that arent in the society's archive then I would love a scan.
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Hello Bensop, welcome to Rootschat.
I have two John Bambridges in my tree of an age at which they might have owned the Barracks Mill. One born in 1874 and the other in 1747. Any chance you could help me identify which of these it might be?
My 4x g.grandfather was a Daniel Bambridge (born 1782) and he is the one described as a miller on the baptismal record of his daughter, Eliza, in 1813. He was brother to the John born in 1774 and nephew to the other one. Perhaps he worked at the Barracks Mill and not at the Town Mill at all. I assumed that was where he worked as he was living down Mill Lane in 1841.
I also have several Rolphes in my tree in the 1700s but no Robert that I've found so far.
I'm sorry I don't have any photos of old Stebbing.
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First things first - with regards the Playles I forgot to say that as well as Bran End water mill they were involved in a windmill at Bran End as when John Playle inherited his father's property in 1757 it included a parcel of land called Stones on which a windmill had formerly stood and had recently been pulled down. I cant be absolutely sure but the likely site is at the Bran End crossroads near the old cottage currently called Stones Cottage.
As for you last enquiry Glenpenny I dont think I can currently help about which John Bambridge owned Barracks - I will keep an eye out though. The information about the 1811 sale I think comes from an advert in the Chelmsford Chronicle (21st September 1811) and other sources which I currently lay my hands on. It is of course very possible that your Daniel Bambridge was working at Town Mill or even at another mill at the date you say although I cant confirm that - he certainly wasnt the owner of Town Mill though as it was owned by the Earl of Essex until 1901. I've had a look in the 1839 Tithe award for Stebbing at it records a Daniel Bambridge in Duck End - he was both owner and occupier but originally it would seem that the owner was a Thomas Bambridge - does that make any sense - could Thomas by Daniel's father for instance? In the 1841 census there are two Daniel Bambridge's, one in Mill Lane as you suggest who was a Shoemaker (aged about 30) and another at Duck End who was a Grocer (aged about 55).
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Thank you for the information Bensop.
Daniel Bambridge, shoemaker, was my 3x g.grandfather and the other Daniel (the miller) was his father. Thomas Bambridge was my 5x g.grandfather and the miller's father.
I wasn't aware of the 1839 Tithe award although I did find a mention of a Daniel Bambridge who voted in the 1847 election. This would have been the miller (later a grocer) as his son died in 1841.
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Daniel / Thomas Bambridge owned and occupied plot 584 at Duck End on the Tithe Award of 1839. I have hopefully attached the appropriate bit of the map to this post. The cottage still exists and is called Forge Cottage. There are still Bambridge's in Stebbing which I presume you are aware of.
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Bensop ... thank you for the correction ... you are right it wasn't Bran End (I assumed that this was the one)... the hotel/inn across the road was the 'Green Man' (?) which was owned by william Whitehead. His daughter Sarah married my great great grandfather John Playle and they later moved to Harlow.
I definitely have something about the Playle's buying two French stones for the mill. Will have to hunt it out.
Quite a few years ago I paid a membership to the Stebbing Historical Society understanding that I would receive the newsletter and other information on my Playle line but it never happened so I didn't get to learn much about them before their move to Harlow nor the Whitehead line.
Bright Blessings
Sandra Playle
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Thank you so much for the tithe map extract Bensop. I've been trying to locate Forge Cottage on Google Earth without much luck. Are you able to help me pinpoint this please? I was aware that there were still Bambridges in the village but have never been in touch with them.
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With regards Forge Cottage (or any current property in Stebbing (or Uttlesford district come to that)) the best thing to do is to search for Uttlesford Interactive Map on Google which will take you to the Uttlesford planning page. From there click on the link to the interactive map. Its not the easiest to use but select a map first from the left-hand side. Then do a search on the right by putting in Forge Cottage - select the one you want (i.e. the Duck End, Stebbing one) and you will get a very detailed map of the area including identifying Forge Cottage.
Sandra - just to reiterate that the Playles were at Bran End - both the water mill there and the windmill. The water mill referred to by the others is in the centre of the main village, down the end of Mill Lane. They may of course of had some involvement with that mill but I am not aware of it. The pub at Bran End was called the Green Man (it closed in 1968), however, the Whitehead family did own and run another pub, the White Hart, from before 1756 until 1822. The White Hart is the only pub still open in the parish and is in the centre of the main village (on the corner with Mill Lane in fact).
With regards the Stebbing Local History Society I'm sorry to hear of your experience. I do in fact remember you. I doubt whether we would have had much (if any) information on the Playles at the time. Time constraints doesnt generally allow us to undertake private research for others but I am always willing to share information that I have available (in fact as I am trying to do on this thread). All members should have had the journal though which is puzzling. We publish a newsletter (now a journal) twice a year and occasional individual papers which go to all members. If you (or the others on this thread) send me a message away from this thread with your e-mail address then I can send you a few by e-mail.
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Thank you so much Bensop. It took a bit of finagling but I now have a saved photo of my 5 x g.grandfather's home.
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Yes ... that is correct ... the White Hart as well.
It wasn't a 'bad experience' as such :)
My email address is *
Thank you for your kindness :)
Bright Blessings
Sandra
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I have only just come across this and don't know if anyone is still interested but I grew up in Stebbing and knew both water mills well. Bran End Mill belonged to C G Pulford & Son and at the time I was a kid, 1950s/60s it was managed by Harold Hynds. The Stebbing Mill, the one in Mill Lane belonged to another branch of the Hynds Family, most recently Len who was the last miller. Forge Cottage in Duck End had an adjoining blacksmiths shop which belonged to a relation of mine, who I believe was called Ted Barritt (Barrett?) after he retired it was for a while used as a wrought iron workshop making gates, standard lamps, etc. It is still there but disused. I believe one of the windmills was at Hornsea farm a few hundred yards along the road from Bran End towards Duck End, now used by an animal food dealer. I am pretty sure I can remember my mother saying this mill burned down one night in a gale. The Green Man in Bran End was most recently kept as a pub by Doll Hayden and her husband Fred, both now dead. It closed in 1968 and was converted into a house. If anybody wants any more information about this period I would be pleased to try to help.
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Now you have mentioned it, I seem to remember my father (Len Hynds) telling me about the windmill at bran End being burnt down in a gale. I may have this wrong but i think windmills have a brake to prevent the sails turning when they are at rest, and i seem to remember the story being that someone forgot to apply this brake and as the sails turned the mill gears the bearings become hot enough to start the fire.
You may also be interested to know that Ted Barrett was my great uncle, (Lens mother was Alice Maud Barrett).
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Hi I think we are (very )distantly related. I believe that Len was a distant cousin and Ted Barrett was also my great uncle. I know we are not supposed to use full names on this but I am Neil and lived at Bran End, mt great aunt Ett lived in the tiny bungalow just along the lane from the mill. I well remember visiting the mill when it was working and loved the wonderful dusty atmosphere. I also remember fishing for trout in the pond at the back of te mill when your grandfather was still around.
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Hi. My grandfather was Percy Hynds and many decades ago I used to spend Summer Holidays in Mill Lane. I often went out on Len Hynds' lorry deliveries. I also used to swim in the mill pool and once recovered the iron bar used to operate the flood gates.
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Hello Neil,
I think your right we are very distantly related! I believe I can just about remember your great Aunt Ett living at the bungalow on the corner and seem to think that she suffered from poor eyesight in her later years. Would she have been living there up until about the very early 1960`s ?
I guess that your memories of town mill would have been in the days when it still operated by water power alone. there was no mains electric in the mill (or the mill house) until about 1960.
Like you I have happy memories of fishing for trout in the mill pool. We always knew it as "the horse pond" and guess that was probably the case in your time there too.
Hello Arty,
Yet another distant relation! As you will probably have worked out Percy was my great uncle and I can just about remember him too. I am pretty sure he lived about halfway down mill lane on the left and one of my earliest memories is of him giving me a threepenny piece.
I think Len always had happy memories of his younger days out on the lorry and remember him saying he would often take someone with him for company on his delivery's.
I know the iron bar you rescued from the the mill pool and if its as heavy as i remember you did very well to recover it!
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Hello again
Yes, Auntie Ett did go more or less blind and lived in the bungalow until around 1960 by which time electricity had arrived! She moved to one of the little bungalows the counsil built in Bran End. I think you are a few years younger than me but I remember that you had a sister called (?) Susan. I can't remember your name but I do vaguely remember Percy who loved part way up the lane. Do you still live locally? I have been away from the area for forty years or so but now live in Wethersfield. Stebbing has changed almost beyond recognition over the years with not even a shop now - strange to think that then there was even a sweet shop!
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I know the bungalows at Bran End but did not realise your auntie Ett moved there from Mill Cottage.
You are right in thinking I have an older sister, Susan. My name is Andy and live about six miles up the road from wethersfield in Stambourne.
I agree with you that Stebbing has changed a lot, even I can remember four shops in the high street, one at Bran End and another at Collops Road as well as Four pubs!
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Hi All,
Percy's house is still standing in Mill Lane. It used to have a white picket fence and was named Mountview (I think), double fronted 1930's style. My uncle Harold used to live in the little bungalow at the bottom of the lane.
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Hello
When did Harold live in the bungalow? My Auntie Ett lived there from my earliest recollection until around 1960 - did he move in after that or before she lived there? Was he a Harold Hynds?
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Yes Harold Hynds lived there in 1950's, I can' be sure when he moved his family to Bran End Mill.
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Hello my first visit to this site. I was visiting my mother and grandmother in Chelmsford Essex UK yeserday and my 105 year old grandmother was talking about her time in Stebbing Mill. Her mother was a Hynds and she spent many summers working at the mill with her mother making butter etc and selling it at the door. She was remembering about the bucket and chuck it toilet they had in the garden and how they had to grow rubarbh around it then eat the stuff in pies. My mother also used to spend her summer holidays there sleeping in a bed with her sister, and remembering how scary it was in the creaky old mill. my mother and her cousins are going back there in the spring. My mother happened to mention to her mum that her cousins thought the mill might be haunted. My grandmother imediatly said yes it is but never told you as did not want to scare you. Aparntly it is an old lady who looks fro one of the mill windows. How ever my grandmother remebers her mother saying that one evening whilst they all sat in the kitchen a jar of cooling cooking fat flew off the window sill and smashed on the other side of the kitchen. Nan says she had happy times at the mill but lots of marriages breaking up with wifes going off with brotherinlaws and the like. Edward Hynds her grandfather ws also a bell ringer at the church and there are records of this. My mother has photo of Edward and Sarah Hynds and other family members at the mill on her living room wall.
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Hi Chelm'
I was born in Mill Lane, my grandfather Percy Hynds used to work in the mill. Your grandmother reaching 105 years is amazing. I am currently researching my family tree, who was your grandmother's mother? I believe Edward and Sarah Hynds were parents of Percy. I guess we must be related somehow, very best regards.
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My grand mothers mother was Florence Emily Hyndes who married a Scutter. This made my grandmother Florence Lillian Scutter who married my grandfather Percy Rainbird. We must been some sort of cousin. My grandmother will probably know you. You can email if you wish * with your details and I will ask my nan. She and mum live in chelmsford
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Hello Chelmermead
This is the first time of sending a message, though I've read plenty. I was very interested to read about your 105 year old grandmother - how wonderful to have someone of that age to talk to! And what interesting stories she has to tell. I'm intrigued about the photos on her wall and wonder if it would it be possible to copy them for me please. I'd willingly pay any costs.
My grandfather was Oliver Hynds born in Stebbing in 1878, the youngest of eight children born to John and Sarah Hynds nee Levitt. Tragically they both died before they were 50 and only two of their children lived.
Grandad used to say that he was brought up by his uncle who was a miller. I think this must have been the Edward Hynds you mentioned. I wonder if your grandmother may remember anything about this?
It must have been about 1990 when I visited Stebbing and went to the Town Mill where I met Len Hynds and his wife and daughter, and he gave me a couple of sacks and tickets with his name on. I still have them.
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Hello Bensop, welcome to Rootschat.
I have two John Bambridges in my tree of an age at which they might have owned the Barracks Mill. One born in 1874 and the other in 1747. Any chance you could help me identify which of these it might be?
My 4x g.grandfather was a Daniel Bambridge (born 1782) and he is the one described as a miller on the baptismal record of his daughter, Eliza, in 1813. He was brother to the John born in 1774 and nephew to the other one. Perhaps he worked at the Barracks Mill and not at the Town Mill at all. I assumed that was where he worked as he was living down Mill Lane in 1841.
I also have several Rolphes in my tree in the 1700s but no Robert that I've found so far.
I'm sorry I don't have any photos of old Stebbing.
Hi,my first post on here, John Bambridge 1774 is my 4x g grandfather, I dont know if you are still looking for this info Glenpenny but John Bambridge was an apprentice miller in Stebbing with Thomas Butcher (brother in law ?) in 1787. I think this must be this john bambridge as he would be 13 also there is a Newman Bambridge (his brother) as Thomas Butcher's apprentice in 1797
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I'd love to know where you got the apprenticeship information Markbam. I don't have any information on anyone called Butcher in my tree at all. According to my information, your John Bambridge (1774) married an Elizabeth Thurgood 22nd June 1810. Might this have been a second marriage?
Anyway, it seems we share a 5x and 6x g.grandparents. Let me know if you would like information on them.
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hi glenpenny sorry its taken so long to reply.
according to my records john married twice,both elizabeth,the first was BUSH 15th nov stebbing witnessed by Frances Bambridge. The Thomas butcher i have in my tree is married to Sarah Bambridge 1765. The info about apprentices is on ancestry in "uk register of duties paid for apprentices identures 1710 1811" for thos butcher. Im trying to find out more about John 1774,cant find his death any where also cant find will for his son William 1805,but found his death in newspaper archive and his house up for auction after his death.
I have a lot more info if you are interested in anything in particular,got in touch with a mr Rowe who was born and raised in "bambridges house " in Bulmer recently.
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Have sent you a message.
Glenys
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Ok
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Hello all.
I have an ancestor called Owen Melbourne who married a Catherine Taylor in 1800. Both were from Stebbing. The reason I found this thread was that I came across a few spellings of his surname, including Milbourn and Millborn. They may be just errors, or may indicate that he was, in some way , associated with one of the mills in the town. I was just wondering if anyone has come across him. From what I remember, he was born in 1778. Thanks for your time, Gretchen.
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Hello Gretchen, I'm sorry but I can't help with your query. Best of luck. Glenys
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My Grandad worked in the mill and I have strong family links to the hynds family.
I still live in mill lane and am happy to share how it looks currently.
Looking at the posts on here I'm guessing I am a distant relation of a few people on this thread.
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Hi there, We are the current Owners of Forge Cottage. Amazing to read about the history of the cottage and the surrounding area. The cottage will be featured in the stebbing historical society magazine soon as it has someinteresting history attached to the time around 1830's -1850's when it was a general store.