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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Carmarthenshire Lookup Requests => Carmarthenshire => Wales => Carmarthenshire Completed Requests => Topic started by: Camera on Wednesday 29 March 06 09:01 BST (UK)
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My grandfather George Brown was born at Waunystradfeiris Llangadock on 15/9/1880. Despite looking at "Old Maps", I have been unable to find out what or where exactly Waunystradfeiris is/was. I have found the village of Waunystrad Meurig but I don't think this is it. It may have been a large house or farm, as his mother was working there as a "Domestic servant". Can anyone help. ???
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Hi Camera! :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
Apparently there was a toll-house there, which was destroyed during the Rebecca Riots - Googling produced a couple of references to this, but no exact location, other than that it was near Llangatog.
I agree that it is difficult to find, but maybe there is someone living locally who will know? Is anyone out there? :D
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Have PMed you with a phone number for someone locally who might know!
A ;)
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Thanks Arranroot.
I've given him a ring, but he's gone to lunch! I'll try again later
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I looked at the census for 1881 and can't see your grandfather?
I also looked at the Enumerator's instructions for his "walk" in Llangadog 1881, but that doesn't mention Waunystradfeiris.
Do you have access to the census? You could try going through the pieces for the area, to see if the placename occurs. (Quite time consuming)
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arranroots
Grandad was born "The wrong side of the blanket" to Elizabeth Brown on 15/9/1880. His birth certificate gives place of birth as Waunystradfeiris. His mothers place of residence was the same, "a domestic servant". His father was George Lant, a cattle dealer, Cwmgwyn,Myddfae. The couple were married a few weeks later (25/10/1880). The 1881 census shows the family at Glansevin Row - now known as Ashfield Row. His name is given as George Lant, aged 7 months, the name he used for the rest of his life.
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Well that will teach me to be nosey! ::)
Any luck with the phone call?
Have you indentified Elizabeth's parents on earlier censuses? It seems likely that her first child would be born at her parents' home, since she hadn't one of her own at the time? Did she register the birth herself? Were her parents mentioned on the marriage cert?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hiya think this is it looked in 1881 and there are about 10 houses there District Road(Waunystradfiris)Llangadock.Best Wishes Welsh Lady
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Hi Arranroots
The birth was registered by both parents. Elizabeths family were from Leominster, but the place of birth was Waunystradfeiris. No luck with the 'phone call. They advised "Cambria" in llandeilo. I have sent an e-mail, but as yet, have had no reply.
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In which case, you could try the Carmarthen Record Office, who are very helpful - they might have other old maps to help you.
Welsh Lady - my Welsh is not good enough to know whether you are saying the place is a translation of District Road? (I know Ystrad is Street!)
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Welsh Lady
Thanks for the info. I have looked up in 1881 and find 8 houses, two of which were unused. As you state, they are listed as District Road (Waunystradfiris). Despite the slight spellin change, they must be it! Anyone know where District road is.
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Hello again Arranroots
The place name of "District Road" is followed by a good number of farms, cottages etc. so Waunustradfeiris must be a small hamlet of houses. The census gives the Civil Parish as Llangadock, and the Parish as Esgob. By the way, I'm no Welsh speaker either, but I looked up Waun as moorland, and Ystrad as valley bottom. Feiris? - no idea!
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The Rebecca Riots article states the the Turnpike toll-house was destroyed, so it must be on a major highway (even though the riots were long before the 1881 census, the road didn't move!)
Have you tried looking for Escob on the old-maps site?
A ;)
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I did try the Old maps site for Esgob but no luck. I have also tried plotting the whereabouts of "neighbors" of Waunystradfeiris including District Road "Old Gate" - is this the Rebecca Riots one? but it's not as clear as it might be. There is a cluster of small cottages next to Waunystrad Meurig - named after the castle - which have no names. I have in fact, called at this street about a year ago, and they all now have individual cottage names, and no one I spoke to had heard of Waunystradfeiris. The search continues!
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Camera,
I hope I can shed some light on this for you.
As you commented, Waunystradfiris is noted on the 1881 census as on ‘District Road’. I then looked for other properties also listed along ‘District Road’, and came up with quite a list for my trouble! Armed with this information I cross-referenced this with a very useful mapping service available on the Carmarthenshire County Council website (http://gis.carmarthenshire.gov.uk/planaccess/planaccess.asp), which is searchable by address or part thereof. Although I could not find Waunystradferis, there is a Waunystrad-meirig and a Meiris Villa. The others I found that matched the 1881 census were; Mount Dyrfal, Cwrywaun, Tynlone, Tynlonefach, Greenfield Cottage, Pantywaun, Penybont, Maesgwastod, Llwyncelyn. All of these were fairly close to each other, so I’d have to say, we must be pretty close. If you want to Multimap or Old maps, the post code is SA19 9HS. District Road appears to correspond with the C2149 from Llangadog to Llandovery.
My best guess would be that the house is either not there now, or the name has been changed, or even that the census enumerator miss-spelt it (unheard of eh!!). I’ve not been along that road for a while but I’ll be going for a nose when I’m passing next.
Hope this is some help.
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Thanks for the input Buckaroo - great to have a local on board!
:D 8)
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Hi Buckaroo.
Thanks for the intrest and all the time you've obviously put in to this problem. Having spent quite some time trying to find Waunystradfeiris in the past, I have not had chance to look further for some time. It is my intention to take a run up there this summer, and try to find out more. I too thought that it may have been a mistake by the enumerator but having found the same name in the reference to the Rebbecca Riots, I feel that it must have existed. The Meiris Villa you refered to used to be the site of Oldgate Cottage, was this the Toll Gate in question? It must have been on the right road. The word Feiris is also a mystery. Not being a Welsh speaker, I have tried to look it up, with little success. One Welsh/English dictionary did give it as Mayors but none of the others I tried gave a result. Thanks again for your interest.
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I have only page 63 of the 1851 census of Llangadock parish. On that page are three families living at Wainystradfeiris and one at Llwyncelin. If you go to
http://gis.carmarthenshire.gov.uk/planaccess/planaccess.asp
and enter post code SA19 9HS and click on Waun Ystrad Meurig, you will see Llwyn-Celyn Cottage across the road. This is enough to convince me that Waunystradfeiris was located where Waun Ystrad Meurig is today (although the boundaries might have been different).
For those who use OS coordinates, Waunystradfeiris (Waun Ystrad Meurig) is at 271558,228392.
In Welsh, the initial 'm' of a word is sometimes changed to 'f'. Also, an 'i' is sometimes enterchanged with a 'u'. I'm not sure about the final 'g' and the final 's'. It seems likely to me that 'feiris' and 'meurig' are the same. Note that there was a Meurig Castle in ancient Llangadog.
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I have found Waunystradfiris, Llangadock on the birth certificates of my grandfather William David Miller and great aunt, Charlotte May Miller namely their place of birth. Other records around this time and of other siblings show that they were born or resided at 6 Ashfield Row, Llansadwrn. ( just outside Llangadock) on the current A40 Road. Feel free to contact me for note comparison.
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Hello Dusty247 :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
Camera has not been on here for almost 2 years but if they still have the same email address, should receive a notification of your posting, and hopefully will reply before too long. Once you have made 3 postings on here you will be able to use the Personal Message (PM) facility to exchange information privately with other members.
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Hi Dusty,
It looks like Camera's emails have stopped working but I am pretty sure that I have found him posting on another website so have just sent a message to let Camera know of your new reply.
Lets hope we see Camera back soon!
Kind Regards
Sarah :)