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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Inverness => Topic started by: ShalaJ on Friday 07 July 06 08:12 BST (UK)
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Can anyone tell me where I would locate the parish records for a birth in Tullochgorm, Boat of Garten. Can find nothing on the LDS. One more question from a geographically challenged Australian. Is Nairn near Tullochgorm?
Regards
Joy
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Hi Joy,
Tullochgorm and Boat of Garten are widely separated, Tullochgorm being a village in the County of Argyll in the West of Scotland, and Boat of Garten in the County of Inverness, distant from each other by 100 miles.
Nairn is in the County of Nairn, 120 miles from Tullochgorm, and 32 miles from Boat of Garten. All distances 'as the crow flies'.
Isles.
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Hi again Joy,
On reflection I think you may have meant Tullochgorum instead of Tullochgorm. Tullochgorum appears to be the name of a pre-historic stone circle near Boat of Garten.
If you Google: www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=1321 you'll find more information.
Isles.
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Boat of Garten was not a parish in its own right. I think, but am not certain, that it lies in the parish of Duthill & Rothimurchus. Whichever parish it is in, the records are all kept at New Register House in Edinburgh and are available to search online at
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
I don't know what date you are looking at but if it was prior to 1855 when civil registration began in Scotland, then sometimes the registers were not maintained as well as they could be, especially in the more remote areas of the country.
Nell
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I would agree with Nell that Boat of Garten is in the Parish of Duthill. The pre-1855 Parish Records consist of the following:
Baptisms: 1766-1854
Marriages: 1778-1854
Deaths:` NIL
and those of Rothiemurchus:-
Baptisms: 1774-1854
Marriages: 1775-1854
Deaths: NIL
Isles.
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Many thanks for helping me get on the right track. I got misled by the Google search for the Grant clan and it came up Tullochgorum so I assumed (Dangerous activity) that there was only one place and hence my confusion. It was the Boat of Garten link that obviously pointed out my error to those more conversant with the geography.
Perhaps you can answer something that has puzzled me about Scottish parish registers. I have consulted the Nairn ones and now you have given me the Tullochgorm, why are there no burial records. Is this common throughout Scotland or is it only the ones I want.
Joy
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Hi again Joy,
I'm afraid you've been unlucky in that the two parishes I mentioned have no burial records. In the case of those parishes which do have records, these, usually, just give the name of the deceased, and the charge for the hire of the mortcloth from the church. The mortcloth was a velvet cloth laid over the coffin.
In some country parishes the address (ie. the name of the farm) is given. The burial records of cities and large towns may give more information.
Hope this helps.
Isles.
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Thanks for the information on burials. Just makes things a little more complicated
Joy
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Thank-you Isles for this useful piece of information, that Nairn is 32 miles from Boat o'Garten.
It's lucky for us that some of our ancestors were born, lived, & died without straying too far, makes them easier to trace.
Hi Joy,
Tullochgorm and Boat of Garten are widely separated, Tullochgorm being a village in the County of Argyll in the West of Scotland, and Boat of Garten in the County of Inverness, distant from each other by 100 miles.
Nairn is in the County of Nairn, 120 miles from Tullochgorm, and 32 miles from Boat of Garten. All distances 'as the crow flies'.
Isles.
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Hi Shala;
Who are your Grants from Tullochgorum? That's a family line I have some information on--depending on what century you're looking in.
Laura
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Hi Laura,
I'm descended from a line of James GRANTs, for example:
GRANT, James, born 2 October 1786 at Nairn, Scotland, married Caroline Rose NEVE 12 September 1818 at Tenterden, Kent, England. Died 5 December 1870 at Launceston, Tasmania, Australia. James GRANT (1786-1870) was the son of the Reverend James GRANT (?-?), a Presbyterian minister, who was born at "Tullochgorum" Boat O'Garten, Invernesshire, Scotland. Reverend James GRANT & his wife, Margaret, had two sons (James & John), & two daughters (Ann & Janet).
I have scanned a copy of some Grant family letters here: http://zynnyadesign.com/genealogy.html#grant
These two James Grants were mentioned in Burke's Colonial Gentry: http://zynnyadesign.com/Tullochgorum1.JPG.
Amongst the family papers I found mention of Reverend James Grant & his wife Margaret living at a manse in Nairn.
I would be interested to know what information you have on the Tullochgorum Grants.
Bronwyn.
"Who are your Grants from Tullochgorum? That's a family line I have some information on--depending on what century you're looking in.
Laura"
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Hi Laura
(Sorry others for hi-jacking the thread!)
I am a Grant, and my family are from Balnacruie, Duthil - about 1/2 mile from Tullochgorum. On my great uncle Donald Grant's birth cert it states he was born at "Balnacruie of Tullochgorm". I'm sure my dad has mentioned cousins at Tullochgorum when he was young. Dad pronounces it Tullochgorm. As you also have connections with M(a)cBeans from Alvie and Kingussie (see Alvie/McBeans post), we must have a connection somewhere.
My Alvie/Kingussie MacBeans and Duthil Grants joined up when Alexander Grant b. 1806 @ Balnacruie married Isabella McBean b. 1820 Kingussie (both parents from Alvie) in 1857 @ Balnacruie.
Regards
Ellen
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Bronwyn,
The branch of Grants that held the lease on Tullochgorum is quite well documented, in fact, one of the descendants Dr Isabel Grant wrote a little book on the clan. There are no James Grants on the list that I know of. George Grant was the family member who held the lease (what I call the "main line family") during the time frame you're searching; he had to give it up when Sir James Grant of Grant (the land's owner) redeemed the lease in 1777 in order to redraw some of his properties. Of course, there were no doubt numerous other families living on the estate at the time but I wouldn't expect any of them but the main family to show up in Burke's Colonial Gentry--that's what is puzzling. Have you checked the Gentry--the actual book rather than the typed copy you have? Surely that would supply some earlier ancestors.
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Hi Ellen;
Yes, it would certainly be very nice if we were related and could exchange information! However, I've found there to be a lot of folks with these last names in these locations around that time--making it very difficult to figure out just who is in which family. We certainly are close, though.
I found this one note on Balnacruie:
born Jan. 5, 1754 Jean dau to Alex. Grant in Belnacree (Balnacruie).
Was wondering where you got the birth date of 1782 in Alvie for Donald McBain, and do you know where in Alvie he was from? I have copies of the parish registers from that year and his birth doesn't show up. Nor does Ann Warren b. 1787 in Alvie. Assuming I'm looking at the right family tree, of course!
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Hi Larkspur3
Donald McBean is my 3 x great grandfather. His birthdate is estimated @ 1782 from consistent census info and his death cert in 1862. He died @ Gallovie, Duthil, close to Balnacruie, where his daughter Isabella, my 2 x great grandmother, had married into the Grants of Balnacruie. I have not as yet been able to confirm Donald's birth.
Ann Warren, his wife, my 3 x great grandmother, was christened 02 Jan 1787 @ Alvie. (on IGI) Daughter of Robert Warren and Janet McBean. Robert Warren was b. c 1753 from his gravestone in Kingussie. He died 14 Feb 1838.
Janet McBean was b. c 1755 estimated from the same gravestone. She died 27 Dec 1835. Ann Warren died 4 days before her husband Donald McBean in 1862 @ Gallovie, Duthil.
Donald McBean and Ann Warren were married in 1808. At that time, Ann was noted as daughter of Robert Warren from Raitts, which was the principal settlement in the area prior to the 1790's "planned town" of Kingussie. Donald was servant to Angus MacEdward of Kerrow Meadhonach, the existing Kerrow Farm.
Both consistently note their place of birth as Alvie on 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses.
Am very interested in the Jean Grant born Balnacruie in 1754. So far, the furthest back I have definitely placed my family at Balnacruie is approx 1800. My 3 x great grandfather Alexander Grant was born there 1806, as were his siblings, but I have no proof as yet prior to that of our occupation of Balncruie. Alexander's parents were James Grant b. c 1770 - died between 1841-1851 @ Balnacruie and Ann McGregor b. 1770-1774 Duthil - died between 1851 - 1855 @ Balnacruie.
If you can add anything at all I'd be more than grateful.
Kind Regards
Ellen
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Hi Ellen;
No luck, I'm afraid. I've gone through the records I have for Alvie and Duthil and don't find any of your folks. I'm sure your ancestors knew mine since they were in the same place at the same time, but I can't find any information to add to what you have.
Balnacruie also doesn't appear much of anywhere, not even in the National Archives catalogue. There's a rent roll from 1817 and it isn't even on there. (see Google Books, In the Shadow of Cairngorm: Chronicle of the United Parishes of Abernethy, appendix V)
We'll have to hope that someone else posts more info that provides the clues we need!
all the best,
Laura
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My Mary Grant (1828) lived at Lochgorm, Duthill. She was the daughter of John Grant & Mary Mcgregor. All these must be related as the area is very low populated.
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Yes, if only we could figure out the links! Unfortunately, John and Mary are two of the most common names in Scotland so the question is: who is the right one?
Was she born in Lochgorm? If not, how do you know she was living there? Any other siblings or relevant pieces of information?
Laura
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The 1891 scottish census shows John Grant and sister Mary Hulse, Mary Grant and Jessie Grant at Lochgorm, Duthil. I have the wedding cert of Mary Grant (Lochgorm)to Henry Hulse (Burton on Trent) on 31st Aug 1857,and then on the 1861 census I have Mary Hulse with her parents John and Mary Grant and a baby Michael Thomas.... No Henry thou at Farmers house, Duthill. On Michael Thomas Hulse Birth Cert, he was son of Mary Grant ans Henry Hulse 1/12/1858 born at Lochgorm.
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My dad is certain the family were there up untill the 1950's.
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Hi, Just hoping that there may be more Grants/Hulse links 6 months on in Duthil, It would be great to link up some of this information
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I am trying to sort out my Grant/Robertson connections and have some information from stone markers at Duthil. My great grandmother, Jessie Grant (1863-1921) lived at Tullochgribban cottage (at Dulnain Bridge, I believe, and thus 3 mi from Grantown and close to Boat-of Garten). Can Tullochgribban and Tullochgorum be the same place?
Thank you for any information, June
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June,
They are two different places. Tullochgribban is between Dulnain Bridge and Duthil, near the Dulnain. Tiullochgorum is on the Spey, downriver from (northeast of) Boat of Garten and Drumuillie. You can find both if you go to www.streetmap.co.uk and type in the names.
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What a great website! It locates places I have come across such as on the stone inscriptions that I didn't think I would be able to locate, including Milton of Muckrach and Balnacruie. Many thanks, June
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June, did you see Ellen's posting on page 1 of this message thread? Her Grants are from Balnacruie, too. It's not a common name! Where else did your family live? I'm tracing Grants from Duthil and Gartenmore.
Laura
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Hi Laura,
I may have been too quick to say Balnacruie, other than I have been seeing it on the censuses that I have been going through, and was surprised at how very close it is to Duthil (Donald Mcgregor, 1798; Penuel Mcgregor, 1825-; John Grant abt 1859; John Robertson 1862-1947; James Grant, abt 1867; Margaret Grant, abt 1867; Jane Ann Grant, 1893; Donald Grant Robertson(1900-1980); Tullochgribban (Jessie Grant 1863-1921); Milton, and Docharn (James Grant abt 1834-1874). The other area that I believe my family is from includes Alvie, Insh and Kingussie (Lachlen Robertson, abt 1822). It seems my people were shepherds and farmers, although my grandfather and his 2 brothers were all bobbies, I believe, and thus moved out of the highlands for jobs. I don't know if any of these names will connect, but it is always possible... I also know that several of the Robertsons went on to immigrate to both Nova Scotia and to New Zealand, but my details are sparse. It truly is a large, facinating puzzle, is it not? June
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I'm looking for any information regarding a Duncan Martin who was probably born around 1765 in Minard or Tullochgorm. He enventually went to Carradale and had his first of 8 children with Mary McCallum at Achnasavil farm in 1786. Family folklore, and the McNabs from Minard (around 1922), say that Duncan came from Minard. A descendant of Duncan Martin, born around 1899, says that her Martin ancestors lived in Smithy's Cottage (or Smiddy's Cottage) at Tullochgorm. I'm an amateur genealogist and trying to confirm if Duncan Martin did come from Minard, and that his Martin's lived in Tullochgorm/Minard. Any help would be appreciated.
Best Regards,
Daryl Martin
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my family are the current owners of Smithy Cottage which was bought from a family called Duncan in the 1960s. Is this relevant? If you think so I will look at the deeds
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Hi Sue: Thanks for your reply. If its not much trouble, I'd like very much to know who lived there as far back as the records take you. I'm not sure how common the Duncan surname is, but our paternal Martins have Y-DNA tested very close to some Duncans in the USA who have not been able to make a genealogical connection back to Scotland (they appeared there in the early 1700's). Any information you can share will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. How would a person determine who lived there from the beginning? When was it built? Would there be any access to those records online that I could research? Or would there be some better method?
Best,
Daryl
BC, Canada
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my family are the current owners of Smithy Cottage which was bought from a family called Duncan in the 1960s. Is this relevant? If you think so I will look at the deeds
Yes, I'd like to know the particulars of the previous Duncan owners of Smithy Cottage, if you still have it. Since my last post we have done full genome testing, and so did the Duncans. We Martins and Duncan's are definitely closely related, and also both closely related to McLeans genetically. Big Y tests (full genome) at Family Tree DNA were taken by all at cost of about $500 US each. However, the genealogy records only go back to early 1700s. There's also some McDonalds and Dugger's at same level of closeness.
We also know that all the above have distant male cousins in the Drummonds whose daughter married Robert III of Scotland. Our common paternal connection to the Drummonds is Y Haplogroup R1b-L193, a single male likely born between 300-700 AD, greater UK Isles. The L193 man descends from R1b-L21 man whom we suspect could have been born in the greater UK Isles around 2300-2800 BC. The L21 Haplogroup (SNP) are strongly suspected as the Britons of old with highest current day % concentrations in Ireland, Scotland, and Wales respectively.
Suspected L193/L21 cousins can do single Haplogroup SNP testing for as low as $20 US, or an array of 150 SNPs for around $99 US. Note that FTDNA (above) requires a minimum 12 marker STR entry test -- before the SNP Haplogroup tests can be taken -- for about $60 US. However, since STR panel tests can often predict which Haplogroup (SNP) you belong ( from A -T inclusive) it's best to test a minimum of 67 STR markers (costs about $268 US) as this will save money in the long run.
To summarize, the Haplogroup (SNP) foundation has been laid down by testees over last few years to greatly reduce costs for newcomers who want to trace their paternal ancestors via Y-DNA testing (the most efficient testing route) -- especially for greater UK Isles men and their male descendants throughout the world.
Bones of three L21 men, radiocarbon aged to about 1500-2200 BC, are commonly referred to as Rathlin1-3 men, as their bones were found in one spot on Rathlin Island between Northern Ireland and the Kintyre peninsula of Scotland.