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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: perilsofpauline1 on Tuesday 18 July 06 00:00 BST (UK)

Title: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: perilsofpauline1 on Tuesday 18 July 06 00:00 BST (UK)
I thought it would be nice to get back to something not as sad as the "saddest" thing in your family.
How about your biggest mystery?
Mine is the sudden appearance on an electoral roll, of an aunt I knew nothing about. I often visited my grandmother, and knew my father's other siblings, so where has my Clara jnr come from - and where did she go?  There are absolutely no other records of her at all.
Wouldn't it be marvelous if someone was to read our biggest mystery and say "That's me!"  (Ever the optimist)
I can't wait to read your posts!!
Pauline in chilly queensland, Australia
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Dimps on Tuesday 18 July 06 02:44 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery lies with my Linberry ancestors.

Peter Linberry married Mary Carter in Bramber Sussex in 1795.  They were both of the parish, but I have found no Linberry records in Bramber prior to that date.

First son, Peter, was born in Bramber in 1799.  The following sons, Thomas and John were born in Hull, Yorkshire, in 1801 and 1805, respectively.

Their mother, a widow, remarried back in Bramber in 1817 (to James Juden).  The sons were certainly back in Sussex according to the 1841 Censuses onwards (plus marriages, offspring, etc before and after).

I have been told that there was a strong maritime link between Littlehampton and Hull.  I have not found a Linberry burial in Hull.

Nearly all Linberrys in the US and Canada hailed from Sweden and the national emblem of Sweden is the Lingenberry or Linberry (lovely jam from IKEA, by the way!)  So could my Peter have been a Swedish mariner?  And where did he die?

I have another mystery - probably not unusual.  My gggg grandfather, Reuben, went by two surnames:  Chatfield and Faulkner.  He was born in Yapton, Sussex in 1798.  His parents were Philly Chatfield (nee Locke) and Thomas Faulkner (of nearby Slindon).  Philly and Thomas married in Yapton in 1799.  Thomas Faulkner had a brother John, who was a tailor in Littlehampton.  He married Sarah Waller (from Surrey) in Arundel in 1806.  Thomas died in April 1842.  John died in Dec. 1854 and Sarah a couple of months later.  John's place of birth in the 1851 Census was "Sussex" - not very helpful.

So far, I have been unable to link Thomas and John to any other Sussex Faulkners.

Aaaaagh!

Dimps
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: kerryb on Tuesday 18 July 06 06:31 BST (UK)
Thank goodness for something a bit lighter!!!

Mine has to be my brickwall Helena Lorraine Lovekin Stanford Smith.  Parents (if they are her parents) didn't marry or not that I can find.  Found all the census records for the family (if it is them) and have several birth and marriage certs for the children who all have different fathers who change name between birth and marriage.

In 1871 I even have a possible two census records for the family.

In all of it I can begin to unravel why some of the surnames are there, Smith appears to be the family name.  If I have the right family Stanford is the mother's maiden name. 

But where the name Lovekin came from I have absolutely no idea at all

Currently it looks like Helena is born as a Rawlins, married as a Lovekin and then her children are registered with her maiden name Smith.

Confused - you bet I am  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Kerry
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Ann W on Tuesday 18 July 06 07:00 BST (UK)
For me its wondering who DOLLY HUDSON is,, have to wait for the 1911 census to come out to find out,  8)

there is not dolly born or married that i can find in B/Ham or aston ,,, she is doris  1910. or doris maud . or dorothy 1909. or maybe she is a nellie ...

Least i have a chance of finding out in a few years  :)  :)  :)

Ann

PS; My sister is in Queensland saying its COLD.... lol
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: nanny jan on Tuesday 18 July 06 07:40 BST (UK)
Mine is my gt.grandfather "John Howard". I was told he was from a Russian Jewish family.

I have my grandpa's birth cert and there he is ...father John Howard. Grandpa born 1900.  Great...I can find them on 1901 census.   Might have found grandpa but mum has a different first name and no dad around.   Oh well...find the marriage cert.   Months  of searching later an elderly relative tells me ...."they never married".

I have his death cert. and birth certs of some of my grandpa's siblings but no more clues.  Just hoping I live long enough to find the family, with dad, on 1911 census.

Pauline.......I never found Queensland to be chilly when I was out there!

Nanny Jan
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: MarieC on Tuesday 18 July 06 10:17 BST (UK)
What a great idea for a post, Pauline!!

And listen here, you doubting Poms, it IS chilly in Queensland!  Where I am, maximums of 13-14 degrees, minimums around zero or slightly above, bleak and overcast, biting south-westerly wind (comes from the Antarctic via the snowfields of southern Australia!)  And closer to the NSW border, it is colder!!

My greatest mystery is two disappearing gggrandparents.  Edward Martin  in London - I have his birth and baptism, his marriage, have him on 1841 and 51 censuses - then he disappears completely,  wife supporting herself and listed as married on 61 and 71, widowed in 81.  Too many deaths of Edward Martins to find him.  What happened???

 Eleanor Bentley in London, known up till 1861, then disappears.  Cannot find her on censuses, cannot find a death.  Gone!!!

Did they run off with each other?  ??? ??? :o  In my darker moments, I'm tempted to think so!!! :'(

MarieC
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: alllegs on Tuesday 18 July 06 10:33 BST (UK)
Mine is definately my Great Grandma, Margaret Hubbard nee Williams.  She married, had 3 kids and died aged 31 in North Ormesby, Middlesbrough but as far as I can see she was never born, neither can I find her on the 1901 census.  Her father (according to her marriage cert) was William Williams and that is all I know for certain.  The are a handful of family stories but none can be verified as yet.  My gran, MW's last surviving relative (that I know of!) knows nothing as MW died when gran was only 6 mths old and she was never spoken about again.....  I can't wait for the 1911 census to be released as then I can hopefully find Margaret with her father and sister Pattie somewhere in the UK as I have no idea where she was born, all the MW's born in the Tees Valley did not have William as a father and there are no Patties (or anything similar) born in the Tees Valley either....

ROLL ON THE 1911.....

Legs
xxxx
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: KathMc on Tuesday 18 July 06 11:45 BST (UK)
I love the topic.

My biggest mystery has to be my great-great-grandfather, William C. Davis. He was born in New Jersey in the early 1850s, and we have from his marriage record that his parents were John Davis and Mary Cruser, in Princeton, New Jersey. We can't find any trace of him on census records, or at least any definitive trace. We find someone with the same name in the 1860 census living with a different family and then we have him definitively in the 1880 census (with wife Delia, who after years of research on that brick wall, we find out Delia is a nickname for Bridget). I aksed elderly relatives and no one even knew who William Davis was. The funny thing is, my mother lived with William's son John (her grandfather) until his death in the 1950s, so you would think she would know stuff about him. Nope.

And to top it off, Bridget/Delia died in 1905 and is buried in Orange, NJ and there is no trace of William. We have him in the 1900 census but can't find him in the 1910.

WHERE ARE YOU WILLIAM DAVIS!!

Kathleen
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: jacquelineve on Tuesday 18 July 06 12:10 BST (UK)
 Mine is my g.grandfather John Evan Ellis1852
in 1881 he becomes John Evans

1st.marr.John Mills( 1885) father John Mills (tailor)

1991 cens.John Mills

2nd marr. John Ellis (1892) father Charles Ellis (tailor)

1894 Dies as John Evan Ellis

seems his sister also had an identity crisis

Kate Ellis (1860 )

marriage 1888

Kate Evans  father Charles st,clair Evans (master tailor)

It's a shame really,I think all this changing names and
fathers was due to the fact that their mother never wed,
although she had 4 children
           I have a feeling that an Evans could have been the
father of her children( another daughter was named Eva.

                        Jackie.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: ymfoster on Tuesday 18 July 06 14:11 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery or brick wall is my Gt.G'father Thomas Hayse born abt. 1847, .......

Thomas Hayse told his family he was born in Boston, Massachusetts, USA. & that his father was Irish & mother English. After his mother died his father remarried. Thomas's religion was Catholic, so he could have been from Southern Ireland.

Thomas left home & either joined an American Whaling ship (or was hijacked onto one) & said he jumped ship at Twofold Bay, Eden, NSW. to join the gold diggings, & changed the spelling of his name from Hayes to Hayse.

He married in 1877 & said on the certificate that his father was Joseph Henry Hayse & mother Susannah Felingham, but his death certificate says his father was Joshua & mother Hannah.

I have checked NSW Police Gazettes for Deserters & found a Thomas Hayes about 10 years older from a British Naval ship, but Whaling ships from America would only mention the number of deserters & not names.

I have also checked Convict records to no avail & sent to Boston for a Birth Certificate & search with no luck, & Ellis Island for immigrants to America, I don't know if he married in UK or America.

I'm not sure his story was the truth so I'm really stumped on this one.

Yvonne
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: perilsofpauline1 on Wednesday 19 July 06 01:00 BST (UK)
I am enjoying all your "mystery's" so much.  I wonder who will be the first to get one solved!!  I mean it just gives you the urge to go looking don't you think?
And today it is even COLDER here in Queensland! My delicate little hands are so numb with cold I can't feel the computer keys.
Love it though!!!!!!
Pauline
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: boggabarrett on Wednesday 19 July 06 02:54 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery is my grandparents, on my fathers side, I can find my fathers birth along with his siblings, and his mothers death, but not grandfathers death, birth, marriage or my grandmothers birth, maybe some light will be thrown on the subject when my dad's birth certificate turns up.

It was one degree C last night here in sunny Western Australia last night, very sunny this morning but bitterly cold for us poor ex Poms
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Erato on Wednesday 19 July 06 03:22 BST (UK)
I have several mysteries.  One is the disappearance of gg uncle James Franklin Ware.  He was with his wife and daughter in the 1900 census, then absent in 1910 and 1920; his wife called herself a widow in 1920.  In 1930, he was back with his wife, listed as a lodger, but this was crossed out and changed to "relative."  Where was he and what was he doing for 20+ years?
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: throckenholt on Wednesday 19 July 06 08:16 BST (UK)
jacquelineve - have you checked out who were tailors in the area at the time - that seems to be the common theme, and the name Charles.  And what was the mothers name ?

My mysteries are :

Eliza Worham born supposedly around 1867 in London.  Married in 1891, claims father as George Worham, deceased.  The family story is German father abandoned wife and kids and went back to Germany where he was born.  Eliza supposedly had a sister called Clara.  Mother also called Clara(?), had to wait 7 years before could remarry, remarried to Mr Barry.   

Eliza's first child, Annie Curtis born Feb 1892, her birth certificate  was witnessed by Clara Barry of 166 Arlington Road - presumably her granny.

There is no trace of Clara Barry in the area (densely populated London) in either the 1891 or 1901 census, no marriage of Clara Worham or any conceivable version of the name.  No birth of Eliza, or Clara Worham (or alternative name), no census returns for any Worhams.  WHERE did they come from and WHERE did they go?  Did they deliberately not fill in official forms because they were ashamed or frightened ?  WHAT was their real name ?

Another one is also German related.  Henry Bode born Hannover (city or state ?) in 1861, came to uk sometime before 1881 - supposedly with 3 brothers - no trace of them.  On 1881 census he claims Strelshausen, Hanover as his birth place - which I can't find any trace of as a place, all other census just says German or Hannover.  WHERE did he come from ?

And one more - Peter Nairn - born approx 1816 - 1841 census says Wigtownshire, the rest say Scotland.  Family legend has him from Kirkudbright or maybe Cumbria (!).  His marriage certificate gives his father as William Nairn, carpenter.  There are Nairns in both Kircudbright and Wigtownshire (just to the west) - but none that fit the names and dates.  WHERE did he really come from and how did he end up in rural Northamptonshire running a railway pumping station ?

Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: MarieC on Wednesday 19 July 06 08:41 BST (UK)
I feel comforted to know that I'm not the only one with these problems!!!

Aaargh! - ancestors who change their names, disappear, maybe go abroad...  :(  :'(  I reckon they're all sitting up there in a line, nudging each other and chuckling, laying bets on which of them will be hardest to find.  "Look, there's mine posting again!!  (Chuckle chuckle)  Little does she know how I've covered my tracks!  She's not going to find me any time soon!"

Watch out when I get there.  They are in for a real earbashing!!!  :( 8) ::)

MarieC
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: acceber on Wednesday 19 July 06 11:46 BST (UK)
Hello

I'd like to know:

- Who 2 of my grt-grandmother's fathers were!
- Why one set of grt grandparents got divorced
- Where all the photos etc from my mums paternal grandparents have gone?!
- and why my grt uncle committed suicide.

I suppose all could be potentially solveable, but its quite nice having mysteries, at least it gives you something to aim for!

acceber

and those grt-grandparents have a lot to answer for! all of them...
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Scrabble on Wednesday 19 July 06 12:31 BST (UK)
Mine mystery concerns Charles Davis christened 1822 Stonehouse, Glos.  He seems to have ‘married’ 3 times and had 9 or 10 children including 2 or possibly 3 called Charles(egocentric or what!). He seems to appear in the 1861 census twice.

1851 Charles Davis 29 House Servant b. Lanehouse Glos, living in Westminster with wife Jane and 5 children (all his siblings became servants in London).

1861 Jane & 7 children in Chelsea and then at the end of the list, after the lodger, John Davis 38 Photographer b.Stoneham Glos.

Also 1861 Charles Davis 30 Druggist b.London living in Farringdon with wife Mary & sons Charles & Alfred (remember photography was as much about chemicals as about art at that time)

1871 & 1881 Jane at same Chelsea address (she was still alive in 1901 census)

1871 Charles Davis 49 Photographer b.Stonehouse living with wife Mary & son Charles in Matlock Bath.

1881 Charles Davis 59 Photographer b.Stonehouse living with wife Lucretia in Matlock Bath

1891 Charles Davis 69 Lab Asst b.Stonehouse living in East Ham, wife Lucretia alive but visiting elsewhere that night.

1901 Charles Davis 79 Retd Chem Lab Asst b.Stonehouse widowed and living in Derbyshire

I have sent off for some birth certificates and hope to gradually unravel this one but if anyone knows anything of this family I would love to hear from you.

Pat
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: mc8 on Wednesday 19 July 06 13:02 BST (UK)
I'd like to know how I reached 50 without knowing that parents apparently never married . I've searched the records for all the years following my mothers arrival as a refugee to beyond the birth of the 5th child and found nothing. My mum is 86 now and still wears her wedding ring-I have no intention of asking awkard questions to rock the boat
Monique
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: KathMc on Wednesday 19 July 06 13:37 BST (UK)
I'd like to know how I reached 50 without knowing that parents apparently never married . I've searched the records for all the years following my mothers arrival as a refugee to beyond the birth of the 5th child and found nothing. My mum is 86 now and still wears her wedding ring-I have no intention of asking awkard questions to rock the boat
Monique

Monique,

Could you ask your mom for a copy of her marriage cert, saying you need it for your research records, and see what she says? Maybe at 86 she would love to tell the story.

Kathleen
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: aspin on Wednesday 19 July 06 22:38 BST (UK)
My big mystery is my grt grandfather Adam McKenzie born 1853 ???

On his marriage certificate he is aged 23 he married Isabella Watson 1875
They sail off to New Zealand in 1877 this I have from the death of their baby who died at sea

My grandfather was born in New Zealand 1878 with Adam the name of the father from Helmsdale Scotland .His name appears on the rest of the family all but the last baby Eleanor Isabella Munro McKenzie her mother registers her .1888.
I have paid for a search of Adam in New Zealand without any luck
now paying for a search in Scotland for Adam and his father Alexander shown on Adams  marriage certificate
I keep saying Adam where are you
Isabella returned to England before 1894 when she remarried as a widow
Elizabeth
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Lesanne on Wednesday 19 July 06 23:15 BST (UK)
I'm not far from Bramber, Dimps.  Do you want me to look in the church for anything?
  Have you any connection to Ashurst as there is a couple of West's (1740's) there.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Thursday 20 July 06 00:07 BST (UK)
The names behind the notches on Eliza Ann's bedpost, one of them was my Great Grandfather. By this time we are almost certain it was Callas William Webb, but there are other mysteries with THAT WOMAN.
Who was the Henry Moore, carpenter, whose father was Henry Moore, carpenter who married her. He's not mine, but I would like to know who he was, where he came from and where he went to because he came from nowhere and then disappeared............
Even Eliza's Mother is now in on the act. Her brothers and sisters are down good as gold in the IGI...........no trace of Mary Ann Byles of Portsea. There is  a Mary Ann Biles elsewhere, but she is baptised 1813, my Mary Ann would have been about 1806.........

Sometimes I think, 'Why am I doing this?'
A cup of tea and a bar of chocolate later and it's 'You're not beating me!'
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: MarieC on Thursday 20 July 06 07:41 BST (UK)
Paula,

Don't discount that one, it could have been a late baptism!

The brother of one of my gggrandmothers was not baptised until he was 8 - all the other children seem to have been baptised in infancy.  I have no idea why this was delayed.  Other Rootschatters have spoken of this phenomenon too.

You can do a search for all children on the IGI by just putting in the parents' names and it will give you a list of known children.

MarieC
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Thursday 20 July 06 09:44 BST (UK)
Don't I know about late baptisms, MarieC.
Another fast one pulled on me by That Woman, she didn't have her kids baptised until she moved from Portsea to Reading. Then she had the lot christened together changing their names ever so slightly, Walter George becomes William Walter, Eliza Ellen is Eliza Ann, Gran Harriot gets Harriot Charlotte and little Emily who we have only just tracked down because she had a different surname, is Emily Louisa. After all her affairs she has hung on to that precious bit of paper, her wedding certificate which couples her with Henry Moore. She must have waved this under the vicars nose and hoped he didn't remember she had been living in the district as first Mrs Webb(Emily's dad) and then Mrs Challis (still Emily's dad, but reinvented.)
The case for the Byles family with her mother is this. The girl's names Mahala and Thirza. Not common names, but we have Mahala and Thirza Byles, who would have been Eliza's aunties and Mary Ann Byles/Smith keeps the names in her family calling two of her daughters, Eliza's sisters Mahala and Thirza (forget the Matilda and Teresa on the 1841 census, they can't read)
Mary Ann Byles/Smith claims to come from Portsea, which would be right, but I don't trust anything with this family, so I put it down and then move heaven and earth to prove it. That has got to be my Mary Ann, but why was she left out? WHY wasn't she baptised like all the others?
Oooooh, unless of course Mr Byles had his doubts and didn't want to say in church that she was his......
I think the whole lot of them are my mystery, and it's getting bigger not smaller as I add more members :(
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: MarieC on Friday 21 July 06 07:50 BST (UK)
Mary Ann Byles/Smith claims to come from Portsea, which would be right, but I don't trust anything with this family, so I put it down and then move heaven and earth to prove it. That has got to be my Mary Ann, but why was she left out? WHY wasn't she baptised like all the others?
Oooooh, unless of course Mr Byles had his doubts and didn't want to say in church that she was his......


Well, maybe that's the explanation, Paula!!  Sounds as though she could well be yours.  You really have a classic there and no mistake!

MarieC
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: stonechat on Friday 21 July 06 09:00 BST (UK)
One of my diffcult mysteries is where did the Varndens come from (mystery no 1)
They arrived in Chertsey Surrey before 1775, already married somewhere else (mystery no 2)
They had 6 children, and died intthe area
The only male child, William, is shown as unmarried, so who is young Eliza seen on the  1841 Census
(mystery no 3)

The original Varndens are William b abt 1758, and Elizabeth ? b abt 1750
I have found odd Varndens near Haslemere in Surrey, in Sussex, and buried in Suffolk
HOwever mine seem to materialise in Chertsey, no marriage records and no baptism records

Bob
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Simma on Saturday 22 July 06 23:28 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery concerns my great grandmother, born in 1891.

She was unmarried until 1926. She never had an occupation. She lived with her parents until their deaths in 1907 and 1923 respectively, and then moved in with her sister.

However, in a period when illegitimacy was looked upon as shameful she managed to give birth to my grandfather in 1913 and four other children in 1919, 1920, 1922 and 1923. The father(s) of all these children is unknown.

She also had a sixth child with her husband, but both baby and mother died in childbirth in 1929. Sadly, three of her other children also died within a year of being born.

I should add that she was also almost ten years older than her husband.

What confuses me is exactly what was going here - how and unmarried woman could be having children on such a regular basis, particularly with no apparent income and an elderly father to support.

I am, however, beginning to think that pregnancy might have been an occupational hazard, if you see what I mean. If her father was elderly and unable to work, and she had a child to support, I don't think its inconceivable that the World's oldest profession might have been her only option. It might also explain why my grandfather was so secretive about his past and early life.

I do however, feel really awful for suspecting this - I might, after all, have the wrong end of the stick entirely.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Saturday 22 July 06 23:36 BST (UK)
I think we might share something there, Simma.
I have a feeling my Eliza Ann kept body and soul together in the only way left. No hand outs in those days, once you started on that path you didn't have much chance of getting off it. :'(
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Simma on Saturday 22 July 06 23:45 BST (UK)
The thing is though, it doesn't fit the family profile at all. OK, they were all from the bottom end of the social spectrum but they were respectable - she had several brothers and sisters, all of whom did the usual respectable 'get married, get a house, have 2-6 kids' lifestyle.

They also appear to have been close - her sister took her in in 1923, and took her two surviving sons in when she died in 1929. Her older brother was present at her death and reported it to the registrar. I can't imagine that if their father was struggling to cope they would allow their sister to resolve this by resorting to prostitution.

However, I suppose the illegitimate birth of my grandfather might have made her something of a 'persona non grata' with the family and maybe only her father stood by her.

But again, this is all speculation and sadly, barring the discovery of some long lost document or very old unknown relative I don't think I am ever going to know.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Sunday 23 July 06 00:13 BST (UK)
It's a problem, isn't it. I know for sure that some of Eliza's kids had no named father, so it's anyone's guess how they came about.
Then again, there is, as you say, the matter of respectability.
Gran Harriet, Eliza's daughter,(no named father) had a daughter Emily. The family were very respectable, forget the fact that they married after having their children not before, they did get married.
Emily had an illigitimate daughter when she was in service. That happened a lot. Once a girl fell for that one she could have been in real trouble and not entirely through her own fault. Emily was lucky because her family took her back in and looked after her. Her sister adopted the baby when Emily died. Could this have happened with your great grandmother? Could she have been in service somewhere and attracted the unwanted attention of the master or the son of the master of the house?
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: liverpool lass on Sunday 23 July 06 15:58 BST (UK)
I lost my GGrandfather! Born 1850 in Renfrewshire, married 1875 in Glasgow, had 2 chn born 1876 and 1879 then ..... nothing!! His wife emigrated in 1895 and remarried but where did Murdoch go and when did he die?
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Iria on Sunday 23 July 06 16:16 BST (UK)
Would Love to Find my Edward Murray b c 1873-1875 Liverpool Father William Murray Occ Slater... on the 1881 Census ? On the 1891 Catherine his mother? was married to Owen Kelly and there was a other son called Alexander both where down as Owen's sons... On the 1901 Census Edward is Living with his mother Catherine Kelly but Edward is Back to using the Surname Murray  ???

Was Catherine his real mother ? was Alexander born a Kelly or Murray

Would love to find sooo many answers

Regards

Iria 
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: northern_rose on Sunday 23 July 06 21:10 BST (UK)
I have two mysteries -

The most recent was my grandfather born in 1905 who was registered as Mitchell Henry Clegg and 3 months later christened Richard Henry Clegg. Nobody knew about his registration name until I had spent a year trying to find his birth certificate. Why did his parents change their mind about his name?

My great great grandfather was in prison in Portland in 1901. Why was he in prison and why so far south? (He lived all his life in Lancashire/Yorkshire and Derbyshire)

Will I ever know????
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: SallyCat on Sunday 23 July 06 23:12 BST (UK)
I have three now... one is where did my great great grandfathers wife appear from?  Other than as his wife, I can find no trace of her even though they married in 1848.  I would have thought she would be somewhere in 1841!

ANd then in the same family.. in 1891 a son appears.... George... no sign of him from the time he was born in 1859 til 1891.  Is he a son, or did the daughter marry another Challis? Even the census says 'single'........ ARRRGH..

On my mothers side.. photos of the magnificent Florence Brooks........ nowhere in sight having married ....yet the family photos show her as being my grandfathers mother........yeehaawwww... stand aside Miss Marple.....nothing is ever really solved in a 60 minute mystery show!

Happy hunting everyone!  ;D

Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Sunday 23 July 06 23:38 BST (UK)
Oh Gawd, SallyCat, your great great grandfather's wife 'just appears'
I've got one of those. I have the marriage cert for Eliza Ann and Henry Moore.
Who was Henry Moore? What was Henry Moore, well they claim he is a carpenter, later a soldier......he has no birth or death.... and as for being the father of Eliza's children.........oh yeah?

Then I saw the name Challis and nearly freaked.

One of the notches on Eliza's bedpost was Callas William Webb, (I think he just might, might, be my great grandfather,) he changed his name to William Webb when they went to Reading, and then lord knows why, to William Challis.

Oh, you gave me a nasty turn for a minute there, you really did ;D
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: SallyCat on Monday 24 July 06 00:14 BST (UK)
Whats even freakier Paula......is that I have a cousin.. Paula Challis.. hehehehe  :o  (although married now I guess and with a diff name!)

My whole Challis family is giving me nightmares..... Cant find marriages of the children (perhaps many died).. but good old Harriett.. she just keeps on keeping on like the energiser bunny..... but before being a challis..... eeek.. who knows... an alien?

 ;D

Ahh, the notches on the bedposts.......and we all thought that might be something more recent ! LOL
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Josephine on Monday 24 July 06 01:28 BST (UK)
>> Emily had an illigitimate daughter when she was in service. That happened a lot. <<

PaulaToo,

Thanks, I didn't know that happened a lot.

My great-grandfather was illegitimate.  His mother was a 17-year-old live-in domestic at the time she became pregnant.  Apparently,  she was working for a well-off family and there were rumours that she was paid never to reveal the identity of her baby's father.  She took the secret to her grave and never even told her son.

Based on the employer's occupation, I believe I have identified the family my g-g-grandmother was working for.  Maybe one day they'll have a DNA study of that family and I can submit mine, just in case.

I didn't know my great-grandfather was illegitimate until I sent away for his parents' marriage record and learned they had gotten married when he was three and a half years old.  Then I had to ask around and was filled in by various members of that community (all the family members who might have known have died).

But he's not my biggest mystery, since I've (almost) given up on ever learning the identity of his biological father.

Regards,
Josephine
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Josephine on Monday 24 July 06 01:45 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery is my g-g-grandmother, Sarah Pope. 

Who was she, where did she come from and where did she go?

At the time of her marriage, on 2 June 1868, she was of “full age”.  Her father, Robert Pope, was a labourer.

But I can't find a Pope family in the 1851 or 1861 census with a father named Robert and a daughter the right age named Sarah.

Sarah Pope married William Thomas George.

If I have the right George family in 1871, her age is 23 and her birthplace is Whitechapel, Middlesex.

If I have the right George family in 1881, her age is 36 and her birthplace is Whitechapel, Middlesex.  (I'm pretty sure this is the right family in 1881.)

So she might have been born circa 1845-1848.  No record of a middle name.

There was a Sarah Pope born in 1845 in Whitechapel but I sent away for the certificate and it's the wrong girl.

Her husband died in 1883 (I have the death record) and I can't find her or her children in 1891 or 1901.

I have other brick walls but this one is the worst. 

Regards,
Josephine
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Monday 24 July 06 10:38 BST (UK)
Having been able to browse the North Marston registers at leisure, Josephine, I was surprised to see a couple of entries even in that small village, where the presumed father was the same name as the family the girl was working for.
Aunty Em was not one of them, she was from Reading. I had a hell of a job tracking her down. I didn't particularly want her, but the other six in the family gave themselves up so easily. I began to wonder what was different it was only later in life that she 'went wrong' why couldn't I find her birth. I began to wonder if she was adopted, or being oldest of the brood, if she came as child of one of the parents but not the other. Then I did a broad sweep on FreeBMD for just the surname and district. It was obvious when I saw her, not Emily Mathias, but Harriet Emily. (Yes, Harriet, SallyCat, not only Paula Challis but Harriet as well!)
I don't think even my mother, her sister knew she was Harriet Emily. She was always, 'Our Em.' Now I know they had named her after her mother Harriet. Logical, but NO ONE TOLD ME!
If you would like to see a picture of her little girl it's in Photo Restore,  under 'Little Nellie and Grandfather'
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: alllegs on Monday 24 July 06 11:23 BST (UK)
I think I have just come across another 2 mysteries with my lot....

I have a family headed by Thomas Taylor, he was a plumber (not like the plumber we know today, but a man who put lead on roofs and did the leading for stained glass windows), evidently he had to travel around with his job...

He was born in Thirsk in 1818 ish, his wife was born in Northanmptonshire.....I cannot find a marriage for them....did they even marry?  Their children were born all over, London, Halifax, Huddersfield, York, and Bradford and on the census' they can be found living in York, Oldham, Dewsbury and Huddersfield, but I cannot find a birth entry for any of the children.

I'd love to know where in Northamptonshire Martha (wife) came from and her maiden name, but without a marriage reference or any birth records for the children I'm pretty much stumped!

The second is my Gledhill family - I can't find them on any census.  I have the marriage certificate for Mary Amelia Gledhill form 1874, she states her father was James, deceased, brewers labourer.  I've found people with much less info on the census' before so i though this lot would be a doddle - how wrong was I?!  Neither can I find a birth record for Mary Amelia, I think she may have added the Amelia herself at a later date!

Oh well, it all keeps me on my toes

Happy hunting
Love
Legs
xxxx
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Josephine on Monday 24 July 06 12:55 BST (UK)
PaulaToo,

What I wouldn't give to find a baptismal record for my great-grandfather!  Canadian records (New Brunswick) from those times are hard to come by.

Thanks for pointing me towards the lovely photo and story!

Regards,
Josephine
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Monday 24 July 06 13:59 BST (UK)
My pleasure, Josephine. I hope your brick wall crumbles. Bit of help from friends and some of mine are giving way.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Josephine on Monday 24 July 06 14:05 BST (UK)
Many thanks, PaulaToo!  I'm glad to hear some of your brick walls are coming down!  ;  )

Regards,
Josephine
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: hepburn on Monday 24 July 06 16:43 BST (UK)
Hi everyone,my mystery has no twists or turns,it's very straight forward.My gggrandfather arrived in Stoke on Trent,from Canada,maybe Montreal,he married Caroline Turton 1868,he's in the '71 census,and the '81 also,I'm almost sure he went back"home" to Canada 1886.
I can't find him in the 1851 census,I have no baptism record....I just want to know who he was.....geraldine.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: kelly on Monday 24 July 06 17:12 BST (UK)
My greatest mystery is the disappearance of my grandfather Francis Patrick KELLY.

He was born in June of 1882 in Liverpool and married my grandmother, Emma HEGARTY in October 1911, also in Liverpool.   Between 1912 and 1919 they had four sons and a daughter (two of whom didn't survive).  After 1920 there is no trace of Francis - my father said that he and his brothers were told that he had 'died' - but he was never talked about, nor was there ever a grave to visit.  (my father believes that Francis left Emma at around this time.) 

Emma went on to have a further son by a different father in 1924.  I have searched the death indexes from 1919 to 1925 but no sign of Francis's demise.  Don't know where to look next!!
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: aspin on Monday 24 July 06 22:31 BST (UK)
On July 19th I entered my mystery I did say I was paying for a search well it came on Friday and was I supprised and feel it was well worth it

Adam McKenzie was one of 11 children

I have his mother father and even some deaths 

Elizabeth
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Monday 24 July 06 23:14 BST (UK)
That's what we like to hear, aspin. very pleased for you.
Paula
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: perilsofpauline1 on Tuesday 25 July 06 00:55 BST (UK)
Congratulations Elizabeth!!  Though you paid for a search, its just nice to hear of a mystery solved. I'm hoping that this topic might solve other's mysteries as well!
Pauline in Oz
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: MarieC on Tuesday 25 July 06 08:37 BST (UK)
My greatest mystery is the disappearance of my grandfather Francis Patrick KELLY.

Kelly,

Your man sounds as though he was of Irish descent.

Two suggestions:

1.  When he left his wife, he might have floated off over the Irish Sea to the land of his forebears.  I know Irish bmd records exist, but are a little hard to come by.  It may be worth searching for them.

2.  Or he may have emigrated.  Many people of Irish background came to Australia, and also went to the US.  There are shipping records on the Net - would it be worth looking there?

If the family deeply disapproved of his leaving his wife, he may have become as one dead to them, particularly if he went elsewhere!

Just a few thoughts...

Pauline, I too hope this thread may help to solve some people's mysteries!!

MarieC
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: 1 on Monday 07 August 06 07:51 BST (UK)
My Great-great-grandfather Robert SHARP is one of my mysteries.
He was baptised on  12 October 1823 at Lydden, Kent.
He migrated to New Zealand with his father, brother and sister, leaving England in December 1841, and settled near Nelson.
He married in January 1849 and subsequently fathered 9 children to his wife.
He purchased land.
He registered as a voter.
His father died in 1875.
He sold his land on 02 October 1878.
AND then he disappeared.

His wife re-married in 1887, and stated on her Notice of Intention to Marry (like a marriage license) that her husband had died on 21 June 1883.
His death notice was published in late June 1892, stating that he had died at Sydney in June 1892.
His death is not registered in New Zealand, nor Australia.

I have a Death Certificate for a Robert SHARP, aged 60,  who died in the Workhouse at Plymouth, Devon on 07 November 1883. 

One family story says that Robert had become disheartened with New Zealand and went back to England.  Therefore the death certificate could be for him.  I can find no other Robert Sharp who fits the profile of the one in the death certificate in the 1881 census.

Another family story says that he left Nelson by boat for Wellington, NZ, and never arrived.  I.E. he went overboard, but nothing like that is reported.

So where's my Robert?  Is he still alive somewhere, waiting for me to claim him at 180+??

Tangled
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Monday 07 August 06 09:56 BST (UK)
You've got the same problem as me with my Henry Moore, Tangled. He came from nowhere to marry My Eliza Ann, and then disappeared. I'll bet he's on the same pink cloud as your Robert, having a pint and laughing at us. :D
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: alllegs on Monday 07 August 06 10:26 BST (UK)
Well with immense thanks to Jane Harvey, my mystery has been cleared up some what.  My great grandma has been found on the 1901 living with her aunt and uncle Matthew and Charlotte Steel.  Her birth year is earlier than that ages given on her marriage and death certificates.  What confirmed the detail was that her obituary stated her maiden name was Steel, I presumed it was just a mistake as I know she was a Williams.  So I now believe that her parents both died when she was a child and she was brough up by ther aunt and uncle and whoever put the obit in the paper presumed she was there daughter.  I have also found the marriage of her parents, William Williams and Jane Thomas and traced Janes family back to Wales on the censuses.  William is the only fly in my ointment as I cannot find him on a census as yet.

I hope you all get your mysteries sorted (go to the rootschat chatroom and ask Jane Harvey - she's a star!)

Good luck to you all
Legs
xxxx
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Gadget on Monday 07 August 06 10:38 BST (UK)
I've got a 3 x great grandmother Catherine Stokes,nee Jones (1792 - ??)
Got her baptism record.
Got her marriage record
Got the baptismal records of most of her children
Got the death cert of her husband - 1839 - typhus
Got her in the 1841 census, Bronygarth, St Martins Parish, Shropshire
Then zilch, nothing, disappears from view. A cousin and I have been searching for a death cert or burial record for at least two years. We've checked all the neighbouring parishes. We've checked around Willenhall in Staffs where her sons moved to. The Shropshire records Office have checked........nothing
We've checked the same to see if there was a re-marriage..............nothing
She couldn't have been buried if she hadn't a death cert could she?

So is she still out there somewhere, walking the lanes of the Welsh borders looking for her sons?

I checked those out last year - no shadowy presences.

Gadget  ???
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: stonechat on Monday 07 August 06 11:28 BST (UK)
Hi

A family book records the death of Elizabeth Boyce Donaldson (nee Douglas) on 18 Sep 1867 aged anly 32
(Sadly her husband died the following year leaving 6 children). Where is not recorded, but they were apparently living in a farm , part of the Uppark Estate (Petworth), though this

There is no death record at all - it was either not registered, or missed when the indexes were made

I would really like to know what happened to her.


Bob
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Bill749 on Monday 07 August 06 12:17 BST (UK)
Hi Northern Rose

The most recent was my grandfather born in 1905 who was registered as Mitchell Henry Clegg and 3 months later christened Richard Henry Clegg. Nobody knew about his registration name until I had spent a year trying to find his birth certificate. Why did his parents change their mind about his name?

"Mitchell" and "Richard" would sound very similar to a registrar who was a bit Mutt & Jeff  ;D - maybe whoever registered the birth couldn't read, so didn't notice the error.

Regards, Bill
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Bill749 on Monday 07 August 06 12:35 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery will not be published until after the death of the individual concerned but, amonst others, I have these.

My family lived and farmed for many years at Napchester, near Whitfield, in the parish of Northbourne, Kent.  Since they were much closer to Whitfield church than Northbourne, all of their christenings, etc., took place there.  However, I could not find the baptism of one of my ancestors in the 1600s.  I had his siblings, and he was mentioned in the will of his father, all at Whitfield/Napchester.

I worked my way out, eventually finding a baptism that would fit in Barham, a few miles up the road.  There were no other baptisms for 50 years either way to indicate another family of the same name, so I was more or less forced to accept him as mine.

But I couldn't find his parents' marriage either, until someone pointed me to St Margaret's at Cliffe, a few miles in the opposite direction!

I couldn't work out why the first child would be baptised at Barham, but someone suggested that the first child was often baptised in the in-laws' parish.  Unfortunately, I couldn't find the mother's baptism at either St Margaret's or Barham!  So why were they married in St Margaret's?  Was she in service?  Where did she come from?  Why was the firstborn baptised in Barham?

I have included them in my history, with a note of caution, but I'm pretty certain I have the right father from the will of 1721, which takes me neatly back to my earliest known ancestor who died in 1622 - he has been my ultimate brick wall for several years now!

I have another ancestor in the same line - slightly later, who also married away from home.  Both parties lived in Alkham and he had lands in Northbourne, but their marriage took place at Acrise!!  Again, only a few miles up the road, but why??

Regards, Bill
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Comosus on Monday 07 August 06 17:00 BST (UK)
William Scholey born about 1841 in Leeds.  He doesn't seem to appear on the census before the 1871 and died in 1879, aged 38.  No birth, no baptism.  I've tried looking for William Scully and other similar surnames but I still can't find anything.  He just seems to appear from nowhere.  Also, I have his marriage but his wife's father's name is wrong (put down as John when it was Patrick).  As William's father was also put down as John, I have no way of knowing if it really is his father's name.

Andrew
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Su on Monday 07 August 06 17:07 BST (UK)
This one belongs to my sis-in-law, but as I am doing her research for her, it's just as much mine.

Her great grandfather Abel Swann Birch was born in Missouri abt 1840.  His Mother Mary Bearpark, met and married John Birch, Horse Dealer in Harrogate 1836.  Sometime after that they left for America.  Was John Birch and American or English?

On the 1840 Chariton Missouri Census, I found a Mary Birch, a Samuel Birch and a Washington Birch.
Were they related to John Birch?

Abel Swann Birch named one of his sons Washington Birch (my sis-in-law's grandfather) which is too much of a coincidence for there not to be a connection.

Did they go by waggon train on the Santa Fey trail or by steamboat to Missouri?  Somewhere along the line John Birch died (was he killed by injuns?).  Mary is next found on the 1851 back in Harrogate with Abel Swann Birch now called Abel S.B.Wallace, who has a three year old half sister Emma Wallace.

Did Mary marry someone Wallace in America?  Or did she marry him in UK?  I can't find a marriage.  On the census Emma is born Harrogate.  Grub kindly found a marriage of a Mary Jane Birch to a William Wallace in Chariton Missouri in 1839, was this our Mary?  Was she a saloon girl?  On the 1851 she is landlady of the Bay Horse Pub Harrogate, once again a Widow.

In 1852 she married Robert White. By 1871 she was a Widow yet again.  Was she polishing these husbands off ?

Where did the Swann come from in Swann Birch?

If only we could read between the lines...what wonderful stories we might come up with.  Meanwhile it's doing my head in.

Su



Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: GordonD on Monday 07 August 06 17:30 BST (UK)
One of my biggest mysteries in my tree is Francis Lauchlan born around 1840.

The first mystery is if he was the father of my great-great grandfather William. William was born in March 1869 in New Monkland, Lanarkshire and was the illegitimate child of Margaret Muir. The first record I have of Francis is when he married Margaret in June 1870  in New Monkland. The only census that I definitely have him on is the 1881 when he was aged 41 and living in New Monkland. His birthplace is given as Airdrie, Lanarkshire (the major town in New Monkland parish). He died in 1886 aged 46 in Airdrie. Both his marriage and death certificate give his parents as James Lauchlan and Agnes McGowan. His father according to these was dead before 1870 but based on these certificates his mother died between 1870 and 1886. Cannot find a death for an Agnes Lauchlan in this time. The only James Lauchlan and an Agnes that were having children in the New/Old Monkland area around the time when Francis was born were James Lauchlan and Agnes Cook  (but they were married  in 1841).  The closet I can get to a Lauchlan/McGowan pairing is James McLauchlan and Agnes McEwan in 1849 in Greenock but a bit too late.

Cannot find Francis, Margaret or William on the 1871 although definitely place them in New Monkland in 1869 when William born, 1870 for the wedding and in 1881 on the census. Also although Margaret and her parents (William Muir and Agnes Howie) originally from Ayrshire it is Margaret's mother who registered the birth and her parents are in New Monkland on the 1881 so missing her parents on the 1871 although think they should be in New Monkland (have searched in Ayrshire, Lanarkshire, Renfrewshire and Dunbartonshire for her parents!).

Cannot locate Francis on the 1851 or 1861.

Have got a possible 1841 census for him in Clarkston in Airdrie in New Monkland. The Francis Lauchlan in this case is aged 5 born in the county and living with a James McLauchlan aged 50 and a Jane McGowan aged 40 both born in Ireland. Also a Thomas and a William Lauchlan in the household both aged 10 and born in the county. There is a death in Hamilton in 1878 of a Jane Lachlan the widow of James who was a coalpit enginekeeper (as was Francis' father) and although no forenames for the parents the surname was McGowan and the mother's maiden name is Fuller. (The witnesses at Francis' wedding look like they have the surname Fuller so possibly cousins).  That death was registered by a son John Lachlan. Obviously he is not on the 1841 with the group that I have so he maybe older or younger than the ones on there.

Had a brief look for Francis in England on '51-'71 but nothing really matches up. If my '41 is correct maybe he was in Ireland for a time.

To complicate matters is the spelling of Lauchlan. I've used the spelling which my gran and her father used throughout this message but each of the brothers of my great grandfather spelt the name in different ways- Lauchlan, Lauchlin, Laughlan and Laughlin and what data I have found for Francis spells the name as Laughlan, Laughland and Lachlan. So do tend to search La*hl?n when looking and occasionally La*hl?n*.

That is one of my big mysteries. Others include where in Ireland my 'Irish' were actually from, the father of my great grandmother who was illegitimate and people who are elusive on individual censuses.

Gordon
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Matty on Monday 07 August 06 18:13 BST (UK)
My tree contains four mysteries two are in the same family.

Ellen Ingham gave birth to a daughter in 1844 Mary Jane Ingham -- no name for a Father in either her birth or marriage certificates. :o

Mary Jane Ingham gave birth in 1866 to a daughter Mary Ellen Ingham again no name for her father on either birth or marriage certificates. :o

Next is the elusive John Thomas McNutt born 1862 and on the census's from 1871 to 1891 then completely disappeared! no marriage or deaths -- the alien's have got him? ::) ::) ::)

Then a family tragedy Richmael Smith died in a snow storm in March 1837 and "lies buried in a Tottington Church Yard" (from a book on the area) but can I find which Church??   :'( :'(


Matty
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: patpat on Friday 11 August 06 18:43 BST (UK)
My mystery is my Great Grandad.. William HEDEKER he married Thirza Hoe nee Churcher at Fareham in Hants on 1st Feb 1889.
On marraige cert it says Widower, age 52 ,Sailor ,son of James Hedeker Shoemaker.
That is all i have , never found him on any census( so dont know where he was from), not found his first wife or her death or his death. He died before 1896 as he wife remarried.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Friday 11 August 06 22:15 BST (UK)
Probably no use to you what so ever, patpat, but I have two Thirzas in my tree, Thirza Byles and Thirza Smith her niece, from the beginning of the early 1800s, and a Hannah Churcher just a little earlier.
They are all from Southsea/Portsea in Hampshire. Have you tried searching that particular area? You never know you might find a family connection you can work from.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: d.weaving on Friday 18 August 06 15:08 BST (UK)
I'm not going to even reply on this one ::)
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Friday 18 August 06 17:38 BST (UK)
Don't feel bad about it, mc, my Mother died aged 84 still not knowing she was born out of wedlock. OK so the old rascals finally tied the knot, but all their children were well into the world by then.
The things we uncover, enough to make your hair curl, isn't it, wish mine would take the hint :)
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Nutty1966 on Friday 18 August 06 18:03 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery is my G Grandmother Priscilla Gander born in Liverpool 1873/2, I can see her on the census for 1891 and 1901, but no birth for her and nothing for 1881, I wonder is she is illegitimate and made some story up.

 :(

Jane
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 18 August 06 18:11 BST (UK)
Another of my mysteries is how I ever made it! My mother only had 1/4 of an ovary left after lots of ops and somehow she managed to have my sister and me  ::) ::) ::)

I came quite late on but I'm here  :D

Gadget
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Su on Saturday 19 August 06 10:22 BST (UK)
Well, I've sort of solved one bit of my mystery.

I received the marriage certificate of Emma Wallace yesterday, on which her father was Charles Wallace, Cab Proprietor. I keep typing Cap Proprietor, that's the dyslexier.  I keep getting p's and b's, and L's and 4's mixed up.  Cap Proprietor would have been one of Paul E's ancestors  ;D

Now I can't find a marriage for him and Mary Birch (nee Bearpark), though it does say she is a Widow on the 1851 and on her marriage cert to Robert White.  I need to find her marriage to Charles Wallace as that will tell me roughly when she returned from America (unless of course he came with her  ::)).

Nor have I still been able to find a birth cert for Emma.

And...who are all these Birch's, Bearparks, and Wallace's in Missouri  ???

I think I'm going to have to make my own story up about this lot.  Anyone got any ideas for a Title ? ;D

Su
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Myfi! on Saturday 19 August 06 16:09 BST (UK)
Henry LOCKWOOD married Elizabeth SMITH in Mendlesham Suffolk in 1810.
No children  appear until Robert 1820 born Rishangles Suffolk followed by seven more in Thorndon.

My mystery......why the almost ten year gap?........was Henry in the military?........was he transported for some felony?.......did he take a vow of celebacy? ;)


myfi
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Saturday 19 August 06 16:42 BST (UK)
It's not always the case, but big gaps in the 'production line' can sometimes be caused by miscarriages. I have that in several of my families, when either they started late, or had one child and then there is no record of one until quite a few years later when the living conditions of the family had improved.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: gbuttery on Monday 28 August 06 16:57 BST (UK)
One of the biggest myseries I have relate to my MEINECKE family.

They were originally from Germany, so I wonder if gaps in there whereabouts meant they had gone back to Germany.

My great grandmother Johanna MEINECKE married a fellow German  (Adolf Bernardt ASSERT) in London in 1874. I have her on the 1891 census (in Winterton, Lincs remarried to my g grandfather Frederick FROW)
But where was she in 1881 ! ? ! She would have been 25.

Her parents (Ludvig & Beta MEINCKE) were in Hull, Yorkshire for all the censuses from 1871 - 1901.  Was Johanna in the UK in 1871 with her parents?  She certainly wasn't at the same address.

Why can I not find any mention of the deaths of Ludvig & Beta MEINCKE?  They were 70 & 69 respectively in 1901. Surely they didn't travel back to Germany before they died. There family were in Hull by this time. Why no death certificate?

I keep going back to search, but have not got any closer to discovering where they were
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: alllegs on Monday 28 August 06 17:53 BST (UK)
I have another one now.....  see

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,178604.0.html

Any more help would be fab!!

Legs
xxxxx
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Deb D on Saturday 21 June 08 14:54 BST (UK)
Not the biggest mystery, as such ... but ... why would my great grandmother marry her second husband in 1911 ... then keep the entire family in the dark, believing they were "living in sin", - even, reportedly, staging a second (registry office) marriage in the 1960s?

 ???
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Saturday 21 June 08 15:30 BST (UK)
Oh that's a new one, it's usually the other way round  :D
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Deb D on Sunday 22 June 08 08:47 BST (UK)
Never let it be said that any of my mob did things the "normal" way  ::)
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: AnneMc on Sunday 22 June 08 18:28 BST (UK)
Deb

Could here first husband still been alive when she married in 1911? or what about her second husband could have still been married?


Cheers
Anne
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Doddie on Sunday 22 June 08 18:46 BST (UK)
I have numerous brick walls, enough to make me tear out what's left of my hair.

Main one concerns my g.g.g grandmother Flora Jackson (maiden name McNair). She was born in Glassary area of Argyll, Scotland in about 1815. Married John Jackson, a shoemaker, about 1838. They had ten children and she appeared regularly in censuses. John died in 1880. Last trace of Flora in 1881 census aged "69". She is listed as "Flora Mn. Jackson" staying as a "visitor" with Archibald McNair (who I am positive was a younger brother) and his family in Ardrishaig. After this, NADDA, ZILCH, ZIPPO!!!! No details of death, no census entries and no remarriage etc. I have  also searched in England without success. She may have emigrated but I doubt it. I have resigned myself to having to accept this particular brick wall.

Doddie
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 22 June 08 20:53 BST (UK)
At the moment one of my biggest mysteries is someone who appears in 1930 U.S. census and then vanishes!
Great-grandfather listed in 1930 census with family (wife died Dec.1929) including a 'son' with the first name of Knox. Have checked with all living family members who were alive at the time and they don't remember him. He doesn't appear with that same name in any other census. Went through family tree and found no person with that name or a marriage to anyone with the surname of Knox.
Closest I could come is a child named Knox the correct age in the same area with a different surname. It was a small town and if this was great-grandfather's illegitimate child everyone would have known it and he certainly wouldn't have been staying with the family in 1930.
Suspect this one will probably remain a mystery.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: sarahsean on Sunday 22 June 08 21:01 BST (UK)
I found out my grandmother, and siblings along with my great grandmother emigrated to USA in 1928 lived there until 1935 before returning to the UK. Then my grandmother met my grandfather had my father in 1937, re-emigrated in 1946 to Canada. I knew they lived in Canada as my father lived there until the late  1950's but nothing about USA.

 Must be something in the blood though as my father returned to UK from Canada married my mother and then emigrated to New Zealand when my sister was little. They then returned to the UK and had me and I now live in Ireland with husband and family ,we seem to be a family of travelers! My sister also spent a few years in the USA before settling back in UK. Wonder where our children will end up?!

Sarah
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 22 June 08 21:26 BST (UK)
My mystery is my GGreat grandfather George Mears/Meers

His wife Elizabeth was born Raddington Somerset

Great Grandfather James lists his place of birth as Appleton Lancashire. His two sisters a year and 4 years younger were both born in Wolverhampton and we have their baptism records and he is listed as a miner

But we cant find anything for George! Elizabeth remarried in Wolverhampton 1848 but we cant find a death registered for George

There doesnt seem to be any trace of the family on the 1841 census either so I am well and truly stuck

Willow x
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: stoney on Sunday 22 June 08 22:26 BST (UK)
So many mysteries with my lot! ::)

One I'd really like to solve is the final resting place of my 2xG-Grandfather, Archibald Meyers - last heard of in the 1851 census for Wetheral, Cumberland, although I believe a 10th child was baptised in 1853. Wife remarried in 1857, but so far no sign of Archie?

Also, the family rumour-mill suggests the Meyers' originated from Heligoland, but Archie's birthplace on census is given as "Scotland" (really helpful!) - ho hum, maybe one day I'll track him down!  ???
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Deb D on Monday 23 June 08 01:19 BST (UK)
Deb

Could here first husband still been alive when she married in 1911? or what about her second husband could have still been married?


Cheers
Anne

Hi Anne, - interesting thought, but no, her first husband died in Scotland in 1908, and the fellow she married in Oz in 1911 was listed as a "bachelor" (albeit, the father of at least one of her daughters - the other one didn't have a father listed on her birth cert., nor on her marriage cert.), with no prior marriage registrations - I checked  ;D
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: johngirl on Monday 23 June 08 01:45 BST (UK)
Hi,
    mine greatest mystery is my great uncle Otho Desse Greaves. He got married to my great aunt Rhoda Alberta isaac on the 26th March 1895 at St Pauls Church Princes Park in Liverpool. They had a son Herbert Albert in 1896. My great aunt is living with her parents and son Herbert in the 1901 census for Toxteth Park at 21 Arthur Street but there is no Otho residing with them. I haven`t been able to find a birth or death for Otho.His father according to the marriage cert was Anthony a postmaster. Otho was stated to be a mariner. Maybe the sharks got him?

     Johngirl
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: muppetprincess on Monday 23 June 08 03:28 BST (UK)
My greatest mystery is my paternal Grandmother's grandparents. On her 99th birthday, she told me her grandfather was a Swedish seaman! I was unable to pursue the matter because my Father (who didn't like to hear about, or talk about family) interrupted.
I set out to find as much as I could.
Her grandfather was William Nickolas, and, on his daughter's marriage certificate, he is noted as born "Sweden, near Stockholm". He was a mariner.
Her grandmother was Mary Chapman, born London.
I purchased what I thought was their marriage cert from NSW BMD, and there is NO information on it at all! No parents' names, just their addresses before marriage. Useless!
I found, on NSW BDM indexes, the death certs. I ordered William's.  The informant was his wife, Mary. She stated that his mother was Christina, and he was born near Stockholm. he was now a storeman. BUT, it also states that there was "no issue" in  the names of children column. I thought, oh no! There must be some mistake, as their daughter, Mary Jane, has siblings according to the indexes.
I purchased Mary (ne Chapman) Nickolas' death cert, and it states the same info- no issue!
Darn! Is this really my family?? Well, there are some clues on the death certs.  On both certs, one of the witnesses to the burials is J Sparks.  Mary Jane married George Sparks; since she shared her mother's name, maybe she was called Jane by the Family?? it is a coincidence.
Then, the final straw for me as to believing that they are mine.  My grandmother had an older sister who died as an infant.  I had no idea of her existence until I found her on the indexes.  I sent for her death cert, and found a wealth of info.  She was born at Forrest Lodge, Glebe.  William and Mary were living at Forrest Lodge at the time of their deaths.
So, I've decided that:
1. In Sydney in the 1860's, how many William Nickolases, and Mary Chapmans would there have been amongst a population of ~350,000?
2. Who married each other?
3. Who's daughter's married name was the same as the surname of one of the witnesses to their burials?
4. Who lived in the same place as a child (reputedly their grandchild) was born?
I'm claiming them as mine, but they are "pencilled in" to the tree. I visited William's grave and had a chat to him about being so shy and difficult to find. I asked him for some help, and it was after that that I got the baby's cert, and found that the pub his wife worked in still exists in Sydney. Spooky.
Muppetprincess
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: forthefamily on Monday 23 June 08 03:55 BST (UK)
My grandmother...Mary McBride was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania ........however she lived most of her life in either Ireland or Scotland.......she was born in 1890 to a John McBride,Iron Moulder and Annie Murphy.

Annie died at the birth of her daughter Mary and John shipped his baby daughter back to Ireland to be raised by relatives. I've always wondered who took my Grandmother back to Ireland...it certainly wasn't her dad. He went off to the gold fields on the west coast of the US and probably ultimately north to Canada and maybe Alaska. Who knows  :-\ My much older brother told me this bit of family lore and well.... :P

My Grandmother did return to the US in 1904 accompanied by her aunt...John McBride's sister...apparently according to the passenger list I found them on to visit her father but she didn't stay....she went back to the UK where she ultimately married my Grandfather in Glasgow.

John McBride...who are you and where did you go  ??? I have no idea when he was born or where in Ireland .......and there are unfortunately too many John McBrides in Philadelphia in the time period I'm looking at....and worst of all if the 1890 census hadn't been destroyed by fire I would have my answers  :'(  Drat  :P

mab
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: XPhile2868 on Monday 23 June 08 08:16 BST (UK)
Mine would probably be my two unknown great great grandfathers.

One was my maternal grandfathers paternal grandfather, who was probably in Leyland in the 1901 Census, as that is around the time my great grandfather James Marshall McKenna was conceived. His mother married in Preston in 1908, but not to James' father (She married a Thurston Watkinson, who was only around 15 years old in 1901). His middle name isn't a clue as it is a family name and other relatives of James had it as a middle name.

Another was my maternal grandmothers maternal grandfather, who could have been from anywhere. Elizabeth Alice Moxham was born in 1897 in Preston, but there is no trace of a father. Her cousin was born a few years later also out of wedlock, but his middle name was his fathers surname and his parents did eventually marry.


Stephen :)
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: eadaoin on Monday 07 July 08 23:08 BST (UK)
Mine is Martin McDonnell - on the 1911 census in Dublin as cousin of Andrew Breslin.
He married in 1924 aged 50, and several relatives remember meeting him, but no-one can remember which side of the family he's attached to!
I haven't found his birth, and there are too many (male) unnamed McDonnells/McDonalds etc born around 1870-1880 .. I couldn't afford to check each one. Nothing so far in Dublin Parish registers ...

yours in deep frustration for several years!!
eadaoin
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: SueD on Monday 07 July 08 23:19 BST (UK)
I have a few but one I suspect that will never be solved is: who was my 5x great-grandfather William Jones, Private in the Royal Marines, who married Sarah Berry 5 Nov 1813 in East Stonehouse, Devon?

There are a few tantalising clues eg. a daughter was name Johanna Pritchard Jones which hints at a Welsh connection.

He settled in Lostwithiel, Cornwall as did a Robert Jones & both families had daughters named Science. Annoyingly both Robert & William died before the 1851 census (I just call that inconsiderate ;))
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Pilgarlic on Wednesday 09 July 08 11:10 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery is my GGG Grandad John Edey.

The censuses of 1851/61 have him born in 1783, in Shropley and Tapley,  Hampshire.

There is neither a Shropley or Tapley in Hampshire !   :-\

Pilgarlic
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: J.A.M. on Friday 01 August 08 17:25 BST (UK)
There seems to have been a lot of missing persons.

My mystery surrounds Agnes Margaretta Heaney, my grandfather's sister.
Aggie went Christmas shopping 22 December 1922 in Chatham, Ontario. She never returned to her home in Thamesville & hadn't been seen or heard from after that.
Kent police conducted a full investigation & went so far as to send a detective to Ireland to question relatives if she had returned. Family & friends were shocked & all replied they had not heard from her.

You can imagine the pain & confusion suffered by her children. I think it wouldn't have been so bad if a body had been recovered as you heal over time at a death, but to never know definitely what happened still weighs heavily on the family.

J.A.M.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: plimmerian on Friday 01 August 08 19:09 BST (UK)
The biggest mystery to me is how do these people, who research back to 1066, manage to find all the relatives in between without (it appears) a hitch.
It baffles me.

Seriously, it is a mystery when you find a single woman ancestor who gave birth and no father is named on the off-spring's birth certificate / marriage certificate. It's sad to think they had to hush it up and it leaves an empty void in your tree. Sometimes it makes you wish you could go back in a time machine and ask them, "who was the father?".

happy hunting, I hope some of our mysteries reveal their answers soon, sometimes they just do!

 8) ;)




Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: XPhile2868 on Friday 01 August 08 19:34 BST (UK)
There seems to have been a lot of missing persons.

My mystery surrounds Agnes Margaretta Heaney, my grandfather's sister.
Aggie went Christmas shopping 22 December 1922 in Chatham, Ontario. She never returned to her home in Thamesville & hadn't been seen or heard from after that.
Kent police conducted a full investigation & went so far as to send a detective to Ireland to question relatives if she had returned. Family & friends were shocked & all replied they had not heard from her.

You can imagine the pain & confusion suffered by her children. I think it wouldn't have been so bad if a body had been recovered as you heal over time at a death, but to never know definitely what happened still weighs heavily on the family.

J.A.M.


I have my own MySpace for missing people and am in touch with someone whos sister has been missing since the early 1990s and there are some people who are still looking now for people who went missing as long ago as the 1940s and 1950s. Noone I've known personally has gone missing, but its very sad to read some of the stories of missing people.

Stephen :)
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: MarieC on Saturday 02 August 08 09:45 BST (UK)
That's really sad, J.A.M.!  I can just imagine how that would have weighed on the family down the generations! :( :'(

MarieC
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: luas on Saturday 02 August 08 09:58 BST (UK)
Our biggest mystery is Bill Robinson from Manitoba.  We know plenty about his career as a hockey player, coach and manager, but absolutely nothing about how he might be connected to the branch of the Robinson family which emigrated from Lancashire before the Great War.  We've emailed all sorts of hockey websites which might have information, had his photo published in newspapers, etc., and a number of people have promised to make enquiries, then nothing more is heard.  Intriguingly, I found a reference to him recently with a date of birth only, so it appears he may still be hale and hearty somewhere out West.  Problem is, Bill Robinson is not an uncommon name.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 02 August 08 10:21 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery is my GGG Grandad John Edey.

The censuses of 1851/61 have him born in 1783, in Shropley and Tapley,  Hampshire.

There is neither a Shropley or Tapley in Hampshire !   :-\

Pilgarlic

But don't give up Pilgarlic, I searched high and low for a Chusbury in Gloucestershire.  Eventually came across  a jokes page on G**gle and the light dawned.  It was Tewkesbury.   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 02 August 08 11:05 BST (UK)
Hi again Pilgarlic,

Just found a Sopley, north of Christchurch ... and a Shripney just over the West Sussex border, close to Bognor Regis.  Can't remember what the local accent is like there but would have thought Sopley the most likely one to give the possibility of the two notations that you have.

Have you already investigated that?
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Just Kia on Saturday 02 August 08 13:01 BST (UK)
One of my biggest mysteries is my great grandfather - Stanley Charles SCALES.
Why and where did he go after ~1925.
Why did his older sister refuse to have anyone speak of him.
Why did she add a year onto her niece (my grandmother)'s age?
Why can't I find a death or even remarriage for him?

The other is another great grandfather, thus far known only by his surname DEVOS. Who was he, where did he come from and ...?
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: MarieC on Sunday 03 August 08 09:05 BST (UK)
Could Stanley Scales have emigrated somewhere, JustKia?  Done a flit, to the great annoyance of his family?  Have you checked the emigration records on Find My Past?

MarieC
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Just Kia on Sunday 03 August 08 10:20 BST (UK)
Anything is possible.
There is a Mr, Mrs and Mstr SCALES (no forenames) leaving on the Bloemfontein Castle 15 Oct 1953 - London to East Africa.
The last UK residence is a Cambridge address (Stanley is believed to have lived in Cambridge at some point).
I have no way of telling if that might be him. I haven't found another marriage for him, but that doesn't mean he didn't remarry.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: MarieC on Sunday 03 August 08 10:33 BST (UK)
Don't you just love it when the shipping lists are so uninformative?  Very very frustrating!

MarieC
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: MalGordon on Sunday 03 August 08 10:54 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery at the moment is definitely my G G Grandfather. I have traced back as far as his marriage (with the register records) and his death (a copy of the death register entry). However before that it would seem that he was found at the bottom of the garden in the cabbage patch. I have census entries from 1841 that show him being born in Midlothian, Scotland and was aged 50 ( so birth year about 1791. Lo and behold in the 1851 census he has aged 15 years and was now born in Inverary, Argyllshire about 1786.

On the death register entry from 1858 he is shown as being 76 when he died. This now makes the birth year about 1782.

I have been told that ageswere rounded down or up for the 1841 census, but I am sure this was only done to frustrate us descendants trying to make sense of the maze that has been created.

My father who died this year, aged 94 was never sure of where his grandfather had been born, other than he came from the Edinburgh area. One cousin I spoke with thought the family originated in Germany and another that he had been born in the Eastern border area. It is a pity that I never started this quest many years ago when the elder relatives had been alive. But then I guess that that is a common failing. Never the less I will keep searching and maybe one day that elusive piece will pop up and open the way back.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: luas on Sunday 03 August 08 11:17 BST (UK)
I believe inaccurate ages were put in census returns for all sorts of reasons, including people wishing to be thought younger than they actually were.  A relative of mine, who lived in a small village, clearly transgressed some sort of norm by marrying one of his servants who was very much younger (decades) than he was.  They moved to a nearby town, where they were less well-known.  In the next census, she has had another ten years added to her age so that the enormous age gap between them appears less glaring.  One can only assume their marriage caused a lot of gossip, which is probably why they moved.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: NadT on Sunday 03 August 08 16:04 BST (UK)
We have two unanswered mysteries, both on my hubby's side.
Firstly his mother's grandfather Robert Service Baxter emigrated to Canada about 1902 with his wife Louisa and children Elizabeth Grace and Robert.  I found them on the 1911 Canadian census in Watrous Saskatchewan.  Louisa and the children came back in 1912-13 (not sure exactly which year - can't find them on passneger lists for going out or coming back) without her husband, telling people that he was selling up the farm and business in Canada before coming home.  He never did!  Apparently the children were told he died on the way home as his ship was sunk (mention of the Lusitania has been made but there is no reference to him on anything I've found to do with that sinking).  The odd thing was that apparently he was seen after the war apparently back in teh Uk (stories differ as to whether it was Shrewsbury, where Louisa and the children went, or London).  Anyway, can't find any record of him on death records for the UK, and someone had a peek at Canadian records for us and couldn't find him there either.  We are also told that Louisa told her grandchildren in later life that she had a big secret that she'd never told anyone - needless to say, she didn't expand any further!!

The second mystery is my hubby's great grandmother, Ellen Thomas nee Griffiths.  Everyone (including her own children) was told that she died shortly after childbirth in 1902.  When doing my research I discovered from the will of her husband Edward who died in 1906 that she was alive, but classified a lunatic and unable to look after her children.  I have tried the obvious 'lunatic Asylum' in Shrewsbury that she would have been in, and whilst they can tell me there were a copule of people of that name in there at that time, they have no records of why they were in there or what happened to them.  Her husband worked in Hong Kong for 3 years between 1902/3-6 and we don't know where the children were during that time.  I guess I'll have to wait for the 1911 census and see what turns up on that to progress any further with that one.  Quite sad really as we think that it was probably post natal depression that she had.

Nad
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: scouse_mouse_2000uk on Wednesday 06 August 08 16:25 BST (UK)
The biggest mystery I have found so far is in relation to my paternal grandmother. At the age of 17 she was sent to the Isle Of Man. We don't know why or for how long. My aunt said my grandmother didn't go into it. My aunt and I have put two and two together and came up with a pregnancy. I have been in touch with the Isle Of Man social serveices today and gave them what information I had. Hopefully soon we will find out if an adoption took place. If there is no pregnancy, then the mystery will remain. Lynn
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: tracyjgiles on Wednesday 06 August 08 21:09 BST (UK)
i have 2 mysteries Where did Gertrude Mace (todenham) go after she gave birth to my grandma in 4 nov 1904, she just vanished leaving evelyn vera Mace to be brought up by her grandparents.

and my second is John Nolan (1835) who came to england from Ireland, having not stated where in Ireland.................it is impossible to follow the tree back any further.

Tracy
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: tinav40 on Wednesday 06 August 08 21:39 BST (UK)
Hi all
Don't get me started.... my family can give Agatha Christie a run for her money. ::) ::)
I would like to find out why someone can be on the ships passenger lists coming home to England but there is no record of them leaving. ??? ??? That on has bugged me for ages.
How can someone also disappear of the face of the earth?
Happy mystery solving.  ;D
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Pilgarlic on Wednesday 06 August 08 21:57 BST (UK)
Hi again Pilgarlic,

Just found a Sopley, north of Christchurch ... and a Shripney just over the West Sussex border, close to Bognor Regis.  Can't remember what the local accent is like there but would have thought Sopley the most likely one to give the possibility of the two notations that you have.

Have you already investigated that?

Hello DudleyWinchurch

Thanks for trying to help me on my GGG Grandad John Edey from Shropley and Tapley.

I reckoned Sopley was the right place as well. Unfortunately my contact searched for baptisms at Sopley and did not find a baptism for John Edey circa 1783. I am thinking he may of been baptised in nearby Christchurch now. I still reckon Sopley was the place that was meant in the censuses though.

Here is a link to a previous thread i started on John Edey.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,281574.0.html

Pilgarlic
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: LizzieW on Wednesday 06 August 08 22:31 BST (UK)
Quote
I would like to find out why someone can be on the ships passenger lists coming home to England but there is no record of them leaving.

I've got this with brothers of my g.grandmother.  One emigrated to USA but there is no record of him on passenger lists, but he is on US census and there is a marriage for him in the US.  His younger brother also emigrated a few years later, he is on passenger lists.  Then for some reason, they both returned to England and are shown on the passenger lists but they didn't stay as they are back on the US census in 1901.

I think the reason the first brother is not on any passenger lists, is that he sailed for the US before the date of passenger lists which are accessible on the internet.

Lizzie
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Bill749 on Thursday 11 September 08 00:03 BST (UK)
The biggest mystery in my family tree at the moment is - WHY did a cabinet maker should uproot his entire family from Dover and emigrate to the USA in 1877 and take work as a paper-hanger, before trecking across country to Salt Lake City.

Bill
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Erato on Thursday 11 September 08 00:22 BST (UK)
Maybe for religious reasons.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Bill749 on Thursday 11 September 08 00:38 BST (UK)
That's the favoured theory - that his wife converted to Mormon
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: johnnyboy on Thursday 11 September 08 01:22 BST (UK)
Hello all:

There are not capital letters large enough nor grimacing smileys unhappy enough (I need ten crying smileys dripping streams of tears from both eyes) for me to talk about the mystery of my Scottish great-grandfather Robert Hendry.

He apparently never existed in Scotland, though the records he left in the U.S. say that he was born there--someplace--in October 1856 and lived there 25 years. Scotlandspeople never heard of him. FamilySearch.org never heard of him.

Rather he materialized in Massachusetts one day in 1882, married a woman from Glasgow a month after he arrived (she had traveled to the U.S a year earlier, accompanied by a Mary or Margaret Hendry--how's that for coincidence), brought five daughters and one son into the world, appeared in three U.S. censuses, worked an entire career for the same textile mill, moved 22 times in 15 years in a city that is thirty-six square miles in area--always one step ahead of me.

Oh yeah, his parents (as attested by two different sources) were Robert Hendry and Agnes Patterson. Scotlandspeople never heard of them either. Ditto with FamilySearch.org.

I still am offering a free meal in New York City (as much as you can eat at one sitting and carry out of the restaurant in your backpack or purse, but air fare is UNincluded; you have to fly yourself over, in other words) to anyone who provides me with incontrovertible evidence of my great-grandfather's existence.

The worst thing is that I think I have a picture of him taken at his place of employment in 1913. He is posed with crowd of co-workers. I have no proof that it's him, but it's his department and his face just jumped out at me. he looks like his granddaughters (my mother and her sisters) and one of my cousins.

That's my little mystery. Every so often, as when Liverpool Annie, sends me a link to topics like this, I find myself thinking about him.

Did I mention that his obituary from 1916 names a brother David Hendry still alive in Scotland. Well, what are you waiting for? Go find him for me......please. 

Did I mention that I've been through this twice on the Scotland section fo Rootschat? That's still no reason for you not to find him.

Regards,
John
 
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
               
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: joboy on Thursday 11 September 08 01:42 BST (UK)
The mystery which has had me searching for many years is that of Ethel E.Bell.
I first heard of her existence when a photo/postcard of her turned up in a deceased estate.
The card was written sometime between 1900 and 1907 at the time when Australia was entering Federation.The stamp on the card was franked Victoria and no precise date visible.
She addressed the card to her aunt and uncle Charles and Louisa Bell in Sydney NSW.
Charles Bell arrived in NSW sometime after 1880.He was a mariner from Devonshire and as far as I can determine he arrived alone ... he married in 1883.
Where Ethel E.Bell fits (and she must fit somewhere) is mystifying indeed.
The writing on the card is attached and in her photo she looks to be in her early 20's
Joe
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Aulus on Thursday 11 September 08 15:14 BST (UK)
I've had lots of little mysteries, some of which have been resolved, some of which (like the story of Florence, my avatar) have just had a couple of layers of veils peeled away, and some which remain perplexing.

Obviously there are lots of mysteries as to just who various g[...]g grandparents were and how some of them ended up where they did, but many are pretty trivial.

One that's been bugging me for a long time - because it should be solve-able - is just who one of the witnesses is on my parents' marriage certificate.  It was only in the early '60s.  One witness is my dad's cousin, the other Louisa Florence Hay.  My mum's long dead, so I can't ask her, and all my dad knows is that she was on my mum's side.

I remember my mother had an Aunt Lou.  Must be her.  It's not on her father's side as her parents were divorced and the father had nothing to do with them, and moreover Florence is a name on her mother's side.  My great grandmother was Rosetta Florence Palfreman (1889-1965), who married James William Collis (1887-1939).

But can I find a Louisa Florence Collis being born or marrying someone called Hay?  Oh, no, of course not.  Nor can I find a Louisa Florence Palfreman (in case it was  a great aunt, not an aunt).

I found a death of a Louisa Florence Hay in Milton Keynes in May 1989, but when I got the certificate there was nothing whatsoever that connected that lady to my family.

It's less than 50 years ago, which makes it so frustrating!
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Reiver on Thursday 11 September 08 22:10 BST (UK)
This ones for Johnnyboy
Hi John
I tried ScotlandsPeople for Robert Hendry born in Scotland between 1855 and 1856 and I was told there were 10.   At the moment I'm out of credits so didn't look any further.

Does this change anything?  I hope it does anyway.

Regards
Reiver
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 11 September 08 22:22 BST (UK)
Hiya John (and Reiver)

There is one b 1857 Allbway, Ayrshire parents Robert and Grace (second marriage?) with a brother David all living in Glasgow

Willow x
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 11 September 08 22:54 BST (UK)
Aulus- could 'Aunt Lou' be a more distant connection like an uncle's widow who married 2nd a Mr. Hay?
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: johnnyboy on Thursday 11 September 08 23:54 BST (UK)
Hiya John (and Reiver)
There is one b 1857 Allbway, Ayrshire parents Robert and Grace (second marriage?) with a brother David all living in Glasgow

Willow x

Hi Willow and Reiver: Liverpool Annie sent me a PM that I might have a winner of my offer posted above.

Willow, I wish it were true. But alas that Robert Hendry (born near where Robbie Burns came into the world) is not my great grandfather. I'm sure he appears in the 1891 Scottish census, when my great grandfather was in Massachusetts in the U.S. with his wife and five daughters.

Reiver: I went to ScotlandsPeople when it was still called Scots Origins and downloaded all of the Robert Hendry births I could find. It is possible that I'm staring right at him and not knowing it because the only records of his parents come from Robert Hendry on his marriage license in Massachusetts and by his family on his death certificate. There's no independent corroboration that mentions his parents.

The search continues.

John  :o :o :o
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 12 September 08 00:09 BST (UK)
Johnnyboy- wonder if Robert HENDRY could have been mistranscribed or misheard and is listed under HENRY.
Also, in Ulster Agnes/Nancy/Ann are all interchangable.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 12 September 08 00:11 BST (UK)
Hi

There is the old thread that has just been revived - sancti has found a poss in Shetland  on the 1861:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,258313.0.html


Gadget
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Aulus on Friday 12 September 08 11:01 BST (UK)
Aulus- could 'Aunt Lou' be a more distant connection like an uncle's widow who married 2nd a Mr. Hay?


Yes, it must be a more distant connection, though more distant than an uncle's widow who remarried as the only uncle was killed in WW2 and did not marry.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: MalGordon on Sunday 01 March 09 08:37 GMT (UK)
Why do G G Grandparents hide away? I have been able to trace back to them on both sides, but after that the male side cannot be found. I have established quite a lot but they remain a complete mystery.

Could it be that those stories of babies being found at the bottom of the garden are true??

Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: MarieC on Sunday 01 March 09 09:42 GMT (UK)
Why indeed, Mal??

Though with my gggrandparents, it is disappearance later in life, and failure to find a death, that is frustrating me, rather than their births!  :( :'(

MarieC
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Sunday 01 March 09 11:37 GMT (UK)
I don't know about anyone else, but I have found that looking for anyone around the 1866 mark is a long hard task...a few years before and after, no worries...1866....it's a black hole down which the ancestors fall and it's a helluva job to hoik them out!
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Deb D on Sunday 01 March 09 13:21 GMT (UK)
Not sure about this, but I have a vague recollection that in 1866 there was an outbreak of either cholera or influenza, in the UK.  Might the records have become scrambled, simply due to the volume that had to be processed?  ???
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Sunday 01 March 09 13:25 GMT (UK)
Now that could explain a lot, Deb...scrambled is certainly the word in my experiance. We have found them all, they were there, but it took a lot of doing.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Gaille on Monday 02 March 09 00:51 GMT (UK)
I have three that are driving me insane lol.

One:
My Maternal nanas father................
He seems to have been born a fully grown adult in 1902.......... cos before that he isnt anywhere!
(and 1902 is just that 1 year late for yet ANOTHER cencus.......... he says he was born in 1875....... but he doesnt have a birth cert - and he isnt on any Cencus (under the name he gave anyway!) until the 1911 one ..............and then he is only a 'boarder' in a boarding house!

On his Marriage cert to my gt-grandma he claims to be a widower - but I cant find any previous marriages with his name any where in the country.

I am starting to think he had a different first name on his birth certs and cencus's and dropped it somewhere along the line .............. I would LOVE to know who he realy is tho!

LOL if anyone has 'lost' a Henry Childs supposedly born in Walsingham Norfolk in 1875 ........... well I found him in my family tree in 1902!


The second & third mysteries are kind of similar to each other!

Two:
My Dads mum always told me she had a brother Charlie who "Died Young".
I found Charlie Smith on the 1901 cencus with his parents - born 1899.
I have him now on the 1911 cencus - living with his parents and younger siblings

My dad was born in 1938 and his cousin in 1939.................... by which time Charlie had dissapeared, and no one ever seems to have talked about him (apart from Nana telling me about him)

Three:
Dads family again!

on the 1891 Cencus I back tracked my gt-grandads family and 'discovered' not one but two elder brothers we knew nothing about.
I found a death for one of them, David but the other John William was very much alive in the 1901 Cencus, and was not only alive but had my gt-grandad, his widowed step mother, her two daughters (his half sisters) and his step mothers sister living with him - and running his own business.

In the 1911 Cencus John is still in the same shop, now living with his Step mother, one of his Half-sisters (the other died) and another of his step mothers sisters - my gt-granddad had married & had my grandad and his younger brother by this time.

Again, no one in the family ever mentioned John, my grandad would have known him and never mentioned him, and I knew his half sister Elsie, she talked of her family - but never mentioned John to anyone, and she would have been old enough to remember him...........


After 1911 I have ne family history of either of dads uncles  ............................ I suspect they may have perished in WW1 ................. but with names like John Evans and Charles/Charlie Smith I am realy struggling!

Gaille
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Just Kia on Monday 02 March 09 17:08 GMT (UK)
My G Grandfather disappears after the birth of my grandmother - well, she remembers him after her mother left, then he went away.
She saw him (not to speak to) at a Salvation Army meeting when she was about 7-9 years old and the SA are supposed to have traced him to Yorkshire in the early-mid 1950s, where "the trail went cold".
No marriages or death entries for him so Stanley Charles SCALES either changed his name at some point, went over seas (can't find him on passenger lists though) or he is alive aged 109 - possible = yes; probable = no.

Hubby's brother-in-law's G Grandfather, Henry STANLEY seems to exist only on the birth cert of his son, Leopold,  and in family stories - I can't find him on any census and he certainly didn't marry Leopold's mother, Mary Ellen JONES.

Two brick walls - both called Stanley (ok so one is forename, one is surname) both G Grandfathers.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Mike Campbell on Tuesday 13 June 17 17:14 BST (UK)
My greatest mystery is the disappearance of my grandfather Francis Patrick KELLY.

He was born in June of 1882 in Liverpool and married my grandmother, Emma HEGARTY in October 1911, also in Liverpool.   Between 1912 and 1919 they had four sons and a daughter (two of whom didn't survive).  After 1920 there is no trace of Francis - my father said that he and his brothers were told that he had 'died' - but he was never talked about, nor was there ever a grave to visit.  (my father believes that Francis left Emma at around this time.) 

Emma went on to have a further son by a different father in 1924.  I have searched the death indexes from 1919 to 1925 but no sign of Francis's demise.  Don't know where to look next!!

Hi, are you still trying to find out this information ?
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: a-l on Tuesday 13 June 17 18:25 BST (UK)
I have a few which annoy me.
Firstly John Marston born 1757 in Queniborough Leics. I haven't found anything else. Online trees have him as a convict but their info doesn't check out.
Next is my Grandma's sister Molly Morris ,she told her father that she wanted to get married and he threw her out the house never to return. Because the man was
black she was ousted and Grandma never knew what happened to her. I would like to know too, I admire Molly  ;D
Another is Grandma's brother Stanley who left the house one day and wasn't heard from again.
 ???
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Marytm on Tuesday 13 June 17 19:47 BST (UK)
I have 2 illegitimate men one who was my Grandad Eric Handley who has a "mystery" Dad  William Frederick Handley. His Mum Martha Watts was married to Arnold Samuel Handley who died 1911.
So on the birth cert it looks like he is her husband as they have the same surname! I have no details about them marrying. She then marries Harry Peake 8 yrs later.
The other is a unknown brother of my Nan on other side Thextons .My Dad knew about all the other brothers and sister but had never heard of Thomas Gilbert Thexton. I have sent for a birth cert to prove if he was really a brother.
Marytm
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Tuesday 13 June 17 21:14 BST (UK)
MY Gran Harriet had FOUR mystery Dads. Luckily they are a mystery no more, although we have never found what happened to Henry, he just went.
Great Gran Eliza married Henry Moore, lost him, literally, partnered W G H Moore, his brother, left him after having two children, partnered Challis Webb who was my Great Grandfather, but he walked out on them, running off with a gal called Betsy. Finally Eliza married Sam Wicks, and stayed with him bringing up her family from assorted 'husbands.'

It took years to work out, but we managed it in the end.
If things get too tough, I'm sure the lovely people on Roots will help you out, Marytm
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: bicker on Monday 19 June 17 16:39 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery is what happened to John James Punnett born 1836 in Folkestone Kent after he left his 6 children in the workhouse at Lyminge. Last found on the 1861 census, last child born 6 Jun 1868 • Union Workhouse. Lyminge. Kent

I thought I had found him and send for a marriage certificate, John Punnett to Caroline Eliza Barnes who married at The Baptist Chapel Ashford, 7 December 1879. Caroline was 21 years John's senior. It came as a shock to find this was actually his son John Henry Punnett and this was the second bigamist in this branch of this Punnet family. John Henry later married Charlotte Hendry Simmons in Westminster 14 May 1882, claiming to be single. Caroline actually waited 7 years until she re-married.

John Henry Punnett's sister Louisa Florence firstly married William Coombes at Christ Church, Folkestone 11 July 1882. Then. again as Louisa Florence Punnett, single woman at the same Baptist Church in Ashford, to John Smith 2 June 1884. Both John jnr and Louisa had been living at Hythe Road, Ashford when they married.

Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Blue70 on Monday 19 June 17 20:31 BST (UK)
For many years I have searched in vain the English and Irish records to find out the origins in Ireland of William John & Jane Holland (formerly Grogan). They came to Liverpool c1879 a time when civil and parish records should help to determine their origins. Despite baptising their children as RCs they don't appear to have ever married in Ireland or England  ::)

1881 England Census

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27L-9KB3



Blue
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Marytm on Monday 19 June 17 21:52 BST (UK)
Wow some amazing stories
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Jackiemh on Tuesday 20 June 17 00:53 BST (UK)
Well, I have several mysteries but the ones that worry me the most are
John Mark Plume bc1801 supposedly Bloomsbury (parents? or did he come from another planet?);
his wife Elizabeth Pulsford Haynes supposedly bc1801  (similar but have found a few possibles);
John J/T Chester b?1880 (possible bigamist but haven't found first family or his parents);
and Charlotte Bellmer bc1765 (another one who just appeared).
Oh for a bit more information on some documents!
Jackie
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: whiteout7 on Tuesday 20 June 17 02:13 BST (UK)
Jean Blyth's family, I want to know if she married or just went on as single?

William Wemyss (son of John Wemyss and Rebecca Anderson) was born 20 Oct 1769 in West Wemyss Fife.

He had an illegitimate son called James Wemyss, b. 07 Aug 1793, West Wemyss Fife, d. 25 Nov 1841, West Wemyss Fife with a Jean Blyth.

What I can see I don't know if I am on the right track at all

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=706679.0

And David Clark of Dairsie who got sentenced to 15 years in prison, where did he die, did he have any other children? Could I get a photograph?

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=773223.0

Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: jaybelnz on Tuesday 20 June 17 05:17 BST (UK)
The biggest mysteries in my tree are my paternal female Irish Ancestors!  I know who their fathers were, I know who two of them were married to, I know their Christian names -  : and that's about it! 

No mother was named on the marriage certs I have, no birth certs available - no death certs found - end of story!
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: myluck! on Tuesday 20 June 17 11:36 BST (UK)
I was married for several years before I realised that my father-in-law was not an only child; he had a sister.
She was born in 1923 and possibly is still alive
She married in 1942 in Dublin and had six children, two of whom are now deceased
She left her family in 1962 and went to England
She changed her name by deed poll and married a second time in 1974 Zygmunt Pawlowski in Brent, London
He died in 1977 and she was the informant on his death certificate and there her trail ends!


My father-in-law died in 1990 and his wife in 1995
I would love to find out what happened to her......
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 20 June 17 23:53 BST (UK)
I had a similar family mystery, myluck!

Years ago I tracked down a cousin of my grandfather and he told me the story of his aunt Maggie's vanishing act. She was a nurse, married and lived in England. I have a copy of a letter that Maggie's mother wrote saying Maggie's house bombed in WWII but family were safe. Sometime between then and 1951, when her mother died, Maggie's mother died and her brother's tried to find her- even hired private detective but no further trace.

The other day I found nursing registers online and put in her maiden name and got like to a record of her on register in 1950s with an address in Sussex!
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: matthewj64 on Wednesday 21 June 17 05:01 BST (UK)
Auntie Eva was the half-sister of my great-grandmother, Miriam Maida Potter (nee Murphy). Eva spent 8 years in the Girls' Industrial School in Hobart, Tasmania until she left in 1887 at the age of 16 or 17. She disappears from then until circa 1905 when she reappears in a photo with a man she would later marry using what I believe to be are false details. I would really like to find out where she went and what happened during that interval  ???
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Linda from Murton on Sunday 25 June 17 22:42 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery is what happened to Dobson Dodds.  He was born in Cramlington about 1860; married Ann Carman in 1886 in Sunderland. They had five children that I know of. In 1883 he pleaded guilty to grievous bodily harm and was sentenced to nine months hard labour.

I found him on the 1908 Electoral Register living in the Township of Denaby at 44 Braithwell Street and 13 Bambro Street.

On the 10th March 1906 he was sentenced one month in jail or payment of £4.0.1d Wife maintenance arrears. He was released on 9th April, 1906.

On 28th July 1906 he was again sentenced to  one month in jail or payment of £6.19.1d Wife maintenance arrears. He was released on 27th August, 1906 and then disappears of the face of the earth. 

One of his sons, in 1912, declared Dobson as being dead.

I can find no trace of Dobson's whereabouts or death after 1906. I wondered if he moved and changed his name so they  wouldn't come after him again for Wife maintenance.  His wife died in 1912.

I would dearly love to know what happened to Dobson Dodds.

Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Gillg on Thursday 29 June 17 11:34 BST (UK)
My gt-gt-grandmother, Annie Church, married Amos Fairey in 1864 and had eight children with him.  Amos died in June 1883 and in June 1884 Annie married John Cox, who I believe to be her cousin.  The story was that she went off to town and came back roaring drunk driving a horse and cart with this new husband beside her!  I don't think that can be quite right, as her eldest son was a witness at the wedding in their home village!  The marriage doesn't seem to have worked out, as Annie then left the Hunts village and headed north with her children for Burnley, where she joined her widowed sister-in-law and family.  I think she must have inherited some money , as she is recorded in the 1890 census as "living on her own means".  She has two death entries on the GRO index, where her surname is given as Cox and Fairey.  The coroner's report calls her Annie Cox, but the local newspaper death announcement calls her Annie Fairey, probably because her son was the undertaker and gave the details to the paper. 

I'd love to know what happened to the marriage and whether John Cox accompanied her to Burnley or just stayed back in Huntingdonshire.  Yet another question I would love to have asked my grandfather.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Barnes612 on Thursday 29 June 17 19:12 BST (UK)
The biggest mystery in my tree is Catherine Lankenau.

Born in Vegesack, Bremen in 1824, in May 1849 her illegitimate daughter, Ann, was christened. Then in September 1849 Ann died in Rochdale.

How and why did they get to Rochdale? I can understand if they got on a ship from Bremen and ended up in Liverpool or Hull or some other sea port with Bremen connections, but to travel to England in the first place, then make the journey to Rochdale, all with a baby between birth and a few months old.

Totally perplexing.

In 1850 she married the son of the woman who registered the death of her daughter.

After many years of research, I made brief contact with the German side of the family who had no idea about Ann or that Catherine had ended up in England.

The only thing I can think of is that she ran away, caught a ship (there is no evidence of her in passenger lists that I have seen so far), and somehow when she got to England got on a train or barge and ended up where she did. I have no idea how she became involved with the family she married into. Perhaps they found her on the street with a poorly baby? Who knows.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: JAKnighton on Sunday 09 July 17 16:43 BST (UK)
My great-great grandfather abandoned his apprenticeship with his older brother and joined the army. After he was kicked out due to poor health, he never worked with his family again (they were coach builders) and he moved across the county to work at a different firm. Something obviously happened with his family that caused him to fall out but I will likely never find out.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: bitty_matriarch on Saturday 05 August 17 20:39 BST (UK)
Everyone has a Black Sheep/Skeleton in the Cupboard, and this one is mine:- my great Grandfather Walter SCOTT,     born on 6 October 1867, in Christchurch, Isle of Ely, Cambridgeshire, England; son of John Scott & Hannah Doncaster     of Euximoor Grange Farm, Christchurch.

He has no middle name and looking at other family names, Walter is a very unusual name to have been used. I can only assume that my Gt Gt Grandmother must've enjoyed reading Sir Walter Scott's novels!

Walter married Annie Maria LAVENDER, daughter of William & Mary LAVENDER,  Herbalists,of Chatteris on 27 October 1890 in the Wesleyan Chapel, Chatteris, Cambs.  They had 3 children, the eldest, Grace, being my grandmother.

As far as my Dad knows from family talk, on the day that Walter disappeared, he had taken some of his father's bullocks to market in King's Lynn, Norfolk, sold them, banked the money for his father and was never seen again!  This was probably about 1903.  Family folklore has Walter, and possibly a lady friend, running away to Canada, but nobody knows.   But I would love to find out.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: PaulaToo on Saturday 05 August 17 21:58 BST (UK)
I like that one.
I have my great Grandfather running away from Great Grandmother Eliza, with a gal called Betsy.
Never found out what her second name was, but they ended up back in his home county of Hampshire, so at least we know what happened to him.
Fun guys and gels, the ancestors.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: chana on Saturday 05 August 17 22:19 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery is Eliza Smithers. She marries Luke John Booker in 1892 in Staplefield, Sussex, where she's noted as being 19 years old (b.1873), the daughter of George Smithers. She's in the 1911 census where her age corresponds to her marriage record and is noted as being born in Burgess Hill, Sussex. However, the 1939 Register has her birth as December 1875. Despite having this information about her year of birth and her father I cannot find any record of her prior to her marriage to Luke.

In comparison to the surname Smith, Smithers appears relatively uncommon, yet that is unfortunately not working in my favour.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: coombs on Sunday 06 August 17 19:20 BST (UK)
My biggest mystery is Eliza Smithers. She marries Luke John Booker in 1892 in Staplefield, Sussex, where she's noted as being 19 years old (b.1873), the daughter of George Smithers. She's in the 1911 census where her age corresponds to her marriage record and is noted as being born in Burgess Hill, Sussex. However, the 1939 Register has her birth as December 1875. Despite having this information about her year of birth and her father I cannot find any record of her prior to her marriage to Luke.

In comparison to the surname Smith, Smithers appears relatively uncommon, yet that is unfortunately not working in my favour.

You may already have come across this but a George Henry Smithers was baptised in 1884 in Burgess Hill, son of George and Louisa. May have been a brother. Something to throw into the pot.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: chana on Sunday 06 August 17 22:24 BST (UK)

You may already have come across this but a George Henry Smithers was baptised in 1884 in Burgess Hill, son of George and Louisa. May have been a brother. Something to throw into the pot.

I'd considered him before, however his father, also George Smithers (as per census records) was born about 1866, therefore too young to be the father of Eliza (b.1873).

That was helpful to reconsider them however, so thank you!
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: stonechat on Monday 07 August 17 10:38 BST (UK)
In my wife's tree, the mystery concerns her great grandmother Emma Louisa Baker and her husband Elijah Cornell

They had 7 children, the last being Maud Cornell Baker, my wife's grandmother, born in 1887.

They were divorced in 1894/1895, it being Emma Louisa who instigated the divorce.
In her afffadavit she states (among the numerous other problems) that his mother was a witness to some of the violence she suffered.

As far as I know his mother Mary Cornell nee Smith always lived in Essex, where the family originated.

At subsequent censuses, Emma Louisa has only two children with her
Maud and George Frederick
Two of the children appear with Martha Louise CArnell in 1891, definitely nt his mother , and as adopted. These two are Florence and Charles
William is at school in Hertfordshire.

There is mostly no sign of the othersafter the divorce.

The questions

1 What happened to Elijah after the divorce - completely missing in UK or elsewhere
2 What happened to the other children.
3 What was the nature of the relationship/arrangement between Emma Louisa and Martha Jane Carnell (the latter died in later 1890's, and was from Herts)
4 When did Emma Louisa die. She ran a cafe/tea or coffee house until at least 1911, and there are a couple of possible directory entries after this but not sure.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Jo. on Tuesday 08 August 17 09:31 BST (UK)
Who Was  F. Dudfield

He's not actually a ancestor of the family, but plays an important part of family history. 

It via F.Dudfield that I found out when and how Gt Uncle William Greedy was wounded in the battle of the Somme which sadly he died from.

Lance Corporal William Greedy died in Rouen hospital on 30th of September 1916 from Wounds.  William served with the Somerset Lights Infantry but alas his service records do not survive.

This is the Letter he wrote to Polly, William's mum which was published in the newspaper along with William's army photograph

Dear Mrs Greedy

I am sorry to inform you that your son has been wounded.  met with him in Taunton, and we came out to France together.  We were in charge on the 18th, and both went over the top together, and we had not got far when he was knocked over with a bullet in the back. Of course, I could not stop then, as it is against the rules, but after we had taken the German trench, and things quietened down a bit, I crawled out and dragged him into a shell hole for cover, and put him as comfortable as I possibly could.  Then I crawled back to the trench. I then told the stretcher bearers where he lay. They were very busy, but i sincerely hope he did not have to lie there long, and I wish him a speedy recovery.  He gave me his watch and ring to send home, but unfortunately I lost the watch in the scrap we had with the Germans afterwards.  I can't write more now, but may God keep you and bless you in your bereavement.

I remain, yours truly,

F. Dudfield

As you can see, he gives the important details to how William fell

I have tried to research F. Dudfield and have found a medal card for an F. Dudfield serving with the Somerset Light Infantry.

I assume this is the same chap, as the SLI headquarters was based in Taunton,  but alas can not find any more information, so would like to find his descendents has he tried to save a friend and colleague on the battlefield. 
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Lionrhod on Wednesday 30 August 17 01:46 BST (UK)
Well now that my grandmother's illicit affair with my grandfather has been figured out (we actually MET our uncle that we didn't know existed all the heck the way in Poland thanks to a post on Ancestry.com -- not kidding! And thank gods for uncommon last names!)

My greatest mystery is Media Shaffer Antonsen, my great grandmother.

For one, we aren't sure of her first name. It might have been Janette (she claimed that when my sister was born) it might have been Violet (she claimed that at another time - or it could have been a middle name.

We THINK that Media was an adopted name. (A mispell of Medea from Greek myth.) She was a Spiritualist and psychic in turn of the century San Francisco and moved to NY just weeks before the 1906 quake in San Francisco. She'd been harassing her husband Hans Antonsen to move for several months because she felt bad things were coming. They landed in Staten Island, NY just as the quake was reported.

Another mysterious thing about her was that she claimed ancestry from Hiawatha and the Algonquin nation (But that's a language category, not a tribe - which tribe? There are many!) The story was of an ancestress (probably an indentured servant from England/Europe who ran off with an local brave.)

There are at least 12 spellings of Schaffer and since we don't have a great idea of where her family came from-- maybe Indiana, or Pennsylvania or...? -- they exiled her as a witch because of her intuitive powers -- it's still a mystery
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: hurworth on Wednesday 30 August 17 03:38 BST (UK)
There's a few, but the most frustrating is my gt-grandfather.  I can not find any record of him before he emigrated from England.  I think DNA is probably the only way. 

Another mystery though is his daughter, my gt-grandmother's sister.  She married in the early 1900s but newspaper reports of the Court pages make it clear that it was a miserable marriage and didn't last long.  By WW1 she was at the other end of the country as Mrs X (but no marriage to Mr X has been found).  She remarried in the 1920s but had clearly been friends with this husband for years.  When he served in WW1 Mrs X was recorded as his NOK and the relationship was described as "friend". 

He's also quite puzzling - he used two different names and his military records have been merged into one.

His death has been registered using the name he was using when he married in the 1920s.  When his wife died her death was registered under the surname X.  But they were on the electoral roll under his surname.  The surname on the grave is X (just X - no first names or dates) and at the foot of the grave it says "Mum and Dad".  That's it!  Her death printout doesn't mention any children.  It doesn't state her birth name nor her parents but from her age, place of birth and first names I know it is her.

My theory is that it was easier to continue to be known as Mrs X because  between her first marriage and her second marriage she had children while she was known as Mrs X.  I'm waiting to see whether any births were registered after the marriage, but it's not 100 years yet.  It's quite a common surname.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: louisa maud on Sunday 10 September 17 15:57 BST (UK)
My Gt uncle was born in 1877, he married in 1902 and his wife died within a few weeks of giving birth to a son 1907, they already had 2 daughters

first daughter  born 1903 died 1912

second daughter  born 1904 died 1907

The only son (1907) seems to have disappeared from the earth from 1911 only to appear in North Allerton, Yorks in the 1940's a single man but his death cert 1971 shows he had a child, haven't a clue about her as she wasn't registered in his name

Father  born 1877 wasn't heard of anymore after second child died in 1907, I have no idea where he went to as I have never found him, the surname is very uncommon and I have traced everyone with that surname, wishing my life away but I am wondering if he will turn up on 1921 census, he wasn't listed on 1939

I live in hope that I may find where the father went to and where  his son was  between 1911 and 1940's

Louisa Maud
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Gillg on Friday 15 September 17 10:36 BST (UK)
Mine's a very common one.  My direct ancestor, William Fair(e)y, was baptised in Gt Catworth, Hunts., in 1776.  His mother's name was Sarah and he was illegitimate.  I have not been able to trace his father - no records in the BVRI, no Bastardy Bonds, Overseers or Parish records requesting the father to support the child financially.  No idea where Sarah came from or how old she was and so on.  It's just a big brick wall that I fear I shall never knock down.  There are several of us descendants chasing William's parents, but none of us has yet succeeded in finding them.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: Roecoyle on Sunday 12 November 17 23:16 GMT (UK)
Mine's is, Grandfather Thomas Forest Milne born 1882 in Aberdeen, went to America in April 1920 leaving behind his wife and children (he was going to send for them when he was ready) but was never heard off again. I know he landed by ship in April 1920(ships list). He was naturalized in 1927 (USA records) but nothing else has been found for him at all. He was a stone mason and also a qualified electrical engineer.
He just seems to have dissapeared.!!
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: LizzieW on Monday 13 November 17 08:21 GMT (UK)
Apart from where my g.grandfather came from before he fathered my gran who was born in 1884 remains a mystery despite everyone, including Rootschatters, trying to find him, the other mystery is what happened to my husband's 2 x g.grandfather James Connor.  Born in Dublin around 1823, on the 1841 census in Liverpool with his parents and a younger brother (who also disappeared), on 1851 census with his wife Mary Ann, and child in Manchester (he married in Liverpool Register Office in 1849, he a Catholic his wife not).  Last mentioned in a trade directory in Manchester in 1855 as a cabinet maker.  I can't find him, his wife or daughter on the 1861 census, but in 1862 his wife had an illegitimate daughter born in Reyner Street, Manchester, the same address (thanks to a Rootschatter) I found out she was paying rates in 1864, 65, 66, 67 and 68.  I think she died in a workhouse in Withington, Manchester in Sept 1868, although the age given on the cert is out by a couple of years.

There are loads of deaths for James Connor in Manchester around the period he is missing, so it's possible he's died.  I've already bought 2 wrong ones.  I guess I'll look on GRO Indexes now to see if I can find one of the correct age.  Of course it's possible he just split up from his wife and went elsewhere, although his father stayed in Liverpool (re-marrying in an RC Church) until his death in 1878.

Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: andrewalston on Monday 13 November 17 16:15 GMT (UK)
the other mystery is what happened to my husband's 2 x g.grandfather James Connor.  Born in Dublin around 1823..

Have you considered that he might have joined the army? The Crimean War had just finished, and the Indian Mutiny started not long after your last mention. The medal rolls for the mutiny mention nine James Connors.

A death on FindMyPast is of a James Connor born in Ireland, aged 62, in 1885. It says there was a son by his first wife, but whereabouts unknown.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: LizzieW on Monday 13 November 17 17:39 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that.  He didn't have a son by his first wife though, he only had a daughter Emma.  I'm thinking he either died after the 1851 census or he and his wife parted.  I can't find any of them on the 1861 census, although there is a child E C aged 9 living at Livesey Street Catholic Convent.  I'm not convinced that is Emma although she would have been 9 at the time. However, her mother wasn't Catholic and even if her father was he married in a register office in Liverpool and Emma was baptised at Manchester Cathedral where she married in 1867.  She said she was 18 then, but in fact she was just 16.

Strangely, I can't find his brother Patrick after 1841, although I guess he might have gone back to Ireland.
Title: Re: What is the biggest mystery in your tree?
Post by: sallyyorks on Monday 13 November 17 20:49 GMT (UK)
Two of my Great Grandmothers were illegitimate. I haven't been able to find any record of who their fathers might be.

Another mystery is
James Barton married Martha Jolly on the 1st March 1824 at St Peter, Bradford
On the census they both claim to have been born in 'Bradford', but I cannot find any record for either of them before their marriage in 1824