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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: knightstemplar on Monday 18 September 06 16:05 BST (UK)

Title: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Monday 18 September 06 16:05 BST (UK)
Does any one know where this hotel is? ???

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/wharncliffe/UnknownHotel.jpg

It was taken in 1912 and was first thought to be Sheffield,  see

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=125480  (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=125480)
(you might need to be a member to look at this one though)

Any suggestions welcome.  It says hotel over the door and I understand is says Tetley on the light.  G and R we think to be commemorating some King George V event,  not sure which,  but where is it?  On the back of the photo it says Charles Buxton Sheffield.

Its driving us mad.   Come and have a look what sheffieldforum have to say if you have a few minutes.  Warning we are up to 12 pages already.

Sue ;)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Sunday 24 September 06 22:57 BST (UK)
No idea where the hotel is but the crown in the window above the door is definitely a 'Queens' crown - Victoria perhaps.
The hotel reminds me of the old 'station' hotels which were situated near the railway stations in most of the major northern towns. There is one next to the station in York that looked very much like yours.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: queenwillow on Thursday 05 October 06 17:22 BST (UK)
Aren't the letters G and R (for George V  - 1910-1936) ?
If we really are stuck, would it be worth popping a copy of the photo in the post to Tetley's (the brewer) and see if they recognise it? Their web page is 'under construction'  but their snail mail is - Tetley’s Brewery Wharf
The Waterfront, Leeds LS1 1QG - England, UK
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 February 07 19:56 GMT (UK)
It probably is more likely a "C" and a "B" as I see no charcter markings to make it an upper-case G...and isn't there a glow refecting from the bottom of the letter on the right which might mean there is a bottom stroke on the letter...a "B"...

Now this is a very low res file...so if you could please scan & enlarge just the right side of the photo....I could adjust the gamma on it to be sure, but as it is, it's just too pixelated...

You can also email me a good scan as I can accept several meg by email...
and then I'll post and call the rootschat experts in here....I'll p.m. my email address to you...
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 February 07 20:05 GMT (UK)
I adjusted the gamma a bit and seems to be a shadow from the right, again suggesting a "B"...but as I say I can't see the original...and maybe it is an "R" clear as day...
Those lovely bay windows should give it away for someone to recognise it, though! J.J.

( partial photo only...see above url for complete)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 21 February 07 20:06 GMT (UK)
Thank you for your reply unfortunately it came from another site.  I am just passing it on to as many people as possable.  It does come from a post card size photo.

see  http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=125480 (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=125480) for more info.

You need to be a member to post a reply though. Or  I can pass a message on.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 21 February 07 20:12 GMT (UK)
It definately is a G and R as I have seen it on a photo of another pub of the same date.  They must have had a problem making it, with the middle to the G cut off a bit short.

Thanks
Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 February 07 21:02 GMT (UK)
Hi

I've just spent an enjoyable half hour reading the thread on Sheffield Forum ... come on Rootschatters - let's see if we can sort this one out!  ;D

For my money, the letters are 'C' and 'R'  (the two circles in a 'B' would, I think, be of more equal weight, but I think this shows a smaller circle for the top, and I'm not convinced the 'circle' on the bottom is a full one).

Like dave the tyke, I'm heading in the direction of a railway hotel.

This site (http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/more/history.htm) suggests there was a Great Central Railway that connected Sheffield with  Manchester and Lincolnshire.

Could this, therefore, be a hotel for the Central Railway?

There's what looks like a shop on the left hand corner, and then an archway that looks awfully like it might be an entrance into a booking hall, with either posters or booking counters lit up inside.

Am I barking up a wild goose here?  ??? ;D

cheers

Paul

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 February 07 21:12 GMT (UK)
Here's an enlargement of the bit I think is the entrance to the booking hall...
what do you think?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 21 February 07 21:24 GMT (UK)
Never thought of a railway...................always open to suggestions, can you make anything of the name plate above?

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 21 February 07 21:35 GMT (UK)
Have a look at this.  It is the Silver Jubilee celebrations of George V in 1935 although they would have probably used the same display for his coronation???  This is on a pub in Sheffield aswell.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 February 07 21:45 GMT (UK)
I know some of the discussion on the Sheffield Forum thread mentioned a sign for Tetley.   I've squinted and squinted (admittedly the definition of the pic is a little on the low side) but I can't see Tetley anywhere... ???

As for the sign above the door, again, difficult to really see ... but I think it says 'HOTEL'.

This would add credence to the idea that it was a railway hotel, since it would distinguish the entrance to the hotel from the entrance to the station (guessing here!).

cheers

Paul

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: chinakay on Wednesday 21 February 07 21:49 GMT (UK)
First letter visible looks like an R, though...

C
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 21 February 07 22:02 GMT (UK)
Tetley is supposed to be on the light.  But I cant even see Hotel over the door...........
Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 February 07 22:54 GMT (UK)
Yes, 'Hotel' might be wishful thinking!

But I can't see Tetley - can you?  ???
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 21 February 07 23:00 GMT (UK)
PaulE
Cant see it but someone on Shefforum says its on the lamp.  Cant see it even when I squint.  Cant see the name of the road either but its a short name.

The H of HOTEL still looks like a K or R.......Maybe not.
Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 21 February 07 23:08 GMT (UK)
There is a crest in the middle of the gable end on left.  It must say somthing on that. ??? The date of the picture 1912 does match up with Georges coronation in 1911.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 February 07 23:11 GMT (UK)
Here's my fix on the sign...

I know there are some experts on Rootschat who can help date photographs by the clothes people are wearing.  I think we need their help!

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 21 February 07 23:18 GMT (UK)
You are cheating.  Will PM you a enhansed picture.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 21 February 07 23:25 GMT (UK)


Did anybody find out what the street sign said ??

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 February 07 23:35 GMT (UK)
Thank God you've found us, Annie!   This thread needs a rotweiller!  ;)  ;D

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: hepburn on Wednesday 21 February 07 23:37 GMT (UK)
If no one has found anything about it on the sheffied forum,could that mean it's on the outskirts??
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 21 February 07 23:47 GMT (UK)
Thank God you've found us, Annie!   This thread needs a rotweiller!  ;)  ;D

cheers

Paul


I'm a Doberman Pinscher .... not a Rotweiller !! ( Classier kind of dog you know !!  ::) )

I tried to make the street sign bigger ..... but I can't get it big enough !!  :-\

Looks like ..... ?? to me ..... that doesn't help much does it ?? what's that shop on the corner ?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 21 February 07 23:49 GMT (UK)
Were still not sure what the sign says.  It might not be in Sheffield at all. ??? Try this enhansed image.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 21 February 07 23:51 GMT (UK)
Were still not sure what the sign says.  It might not be in Sheffield at all. ??? Try this enhansed image.

Whaaaaaaaat ??

Mightn't be in Sheffield after all that ??  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 21 February 07 23:56 GMT (UK)
Local studies is convinced it isnt, he is usually right, but we still dont know.

Can you make out what is hanging from the bracket under the crown?

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Thursday 22 February 07 00:07 GMT (UK)
Well, I think I win one round with 'Hotel' ...   ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: indiapaleale on Thursday 22 February 07 00:11 GMT (UK)
When I first saw this picture, I thought Ah Ah.....it looks just like the old Queens Hotel outside New Street Station in Brum......although I know it isn't that one.....but I would be pretty sure that it is a railway hotel in a big city. I will have a Google for railway hotels.
Indi

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Thursday 22 February 07 00:30 GMT (UK)
Well, I think I win one round with 'Hotel' ...   ;D


Mr E wins again .............  :)

( I think the prize is a fridge magnet !! .... could you use one of those ?? )
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 22 February 07 00:31 GMT (UK)
Im going to leave this one with you. ;D  Will come back tomorrow. Night everyone.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 22 February 07 00:34 GMT (UK)
AttaGirl, Indi...I started to look through some shots but my eyes got tired...
I found a Railway Hotel in Sheffield that was modernized but it would be a major streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch...Could be that if the building has been modernized, we'll need some eyes that remember it in this old form.

Sheffield may only refer to the residence of Mr. Buxton in 1911... I think the clothing looks pretty good for the date...hey, let's get PrueM in here...I'll go nudge her...She's works with with photos too...J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: PrueM on Thursday 22 February 07 02:54 GMT (UK)
 ;D  Thanks JJ - got your PM and came rushing across to have a butcher's!  ;D

Clothes are perfect for 1911/1912.  I would say it's GRV's coronation.

No idea where it is though - gorgeous building but!

Prue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Ninatoo on Thursday 22 February 07 06:16 GMT (UK)
Has anyone tried researching the Coat of Arms or whatever it is on the part of the building to the left at the top?  I know a lot of buildings in Glasgow have the Glasgow Coat of Arms on them, so I think if someone can get a clearer image than I was capable of, it might be a really important clue.


Nina
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Thursday 22 February 07 07:34 GMT (UK)
Here is the plate replicated using the Sheffield coat of arms. does anyone think that there is a similarity?


                                  Denn
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: PrueM on Thursday 22 February 07 08:20 GMT (UK)
Looks good at the top Denn, but the bottom doesn't match does it  :-\  ???
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: PrueM on Thursday 22 February 07 08:22 GMT (UK)
(Neat trick, by the way!  ;)  )
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Ninatoo on Thursday 22 February 07 08:26 GMT (UK)
Here is a rather ornate coat of arms for Sheffield.  The bottom of the shield itself looks more curved, like the one on the building, as do most Sheffield crests I found on the internet.

http://www.fbs.group.shef.ac.uk/images/crest.jpg

My daughter came up behind me when I was enlarging the hotel picture to get a better look at the crest and she said it looked like a lady's face.  ???

Nina
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Thursday 22 February 07 09:20 GMT (UK)
Here is a rather ornate coat of arms for Sheffield.  The bottom of the shield itself looks more curved, like the one on the building, as do most Sheffield crests I found on the internet.

http://www.fbs.group.shef.ac.uk/images/crest.jpg

My daughter came up behind me when I was enlarging the hotel picture to get a better look at the crest and she said it looked like a lady's face.  ???

Nina

That one is actually the Sheffield University coat of arms.

                                   Denn
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Ninatoo on Thursday 22 February 07 09:30 GMT (UK)
Oops...thought it had the same symbols on it.

Nina
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Dalum on Thursday 22 February 07 09:31 GMT (UK)
That enhancement looks very like the coat of arms here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sheffield which for me, as a frustrated participant in the original SheffieldForum thread, is very exciting  ;D

Hugh
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: JillJ on Thursday 22 February 07 11:20 GMT (UK)
Haven't time to read back through all the posts on this thread at the moment so maybe this has been solved,  but if you're looking for the name of the 'Railway Hotel' I can tell you it was the Victoria Hotel, situated on Station Approach, Sheffield and it was indeed the station for trains to Manchester.

I'm not sure it's the one in the picture though!

Jill
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Ninatoo on Thursday 22 February 07 11:37 GMT (UK)
Denn, is that photo of the coat of arms you have overlain on the original  an enhancement of the original, or is it an altered Sheffield Coat of Arms from another source (for comparison's sake)? 

Right now I am wondering if I am seeing things.  I am thinking I can see faint writing down next to the man with the cane on the left, almost level with his cane hand.  I cannot get it enlarged enough to see what it might be.  Also there may be some faint scrawl on the upper roof between the two upper windows on the right.

Also there is a bracket presumably used to hold a sign for the name of the establishment, attached to the wall just down and slightly to the right under the crown.  It doesn't appear to have a sign on it.  This makes me wonder if the hotel was a new purchase, or even if they took the sign down as it may be detracting from other decorations.

Nina
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 22 February 07 12:00 GMT (UK)
I think I have found the architect.  Not sure but another Buxton family in Norfolk used Samuel Sanders Teulon.  The architecture  is very similar with the same gable ends.  Have a look at this.

http://www.lookingatbuildings.org.uk/default.asp?image=1317&document=3.V.2.2#imageA

Its only a thought.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 22 February 07 12:03 GMT (UK)
The Victoria hotel near the station was

http://www.railwayarchive.org.uk/stories/pages.php?enum=LE119&pnum=2&maxp=4

last picture on the page
Nope it isnt that.  Thanks for the suggestion though
Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: jaywit on Thursday 22 February 07 12:05 GMT (UK)
This is the original Royal Victoria Hotelhttp://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s07115
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Thursday 22 February 07 12:12 GMT (UK)
Denn, is that photo of the coat of arms you have overlain on the original  an enhancement of the original, or is it an altered Sheffield Coat of Arms from another source (for comparison's sake)? 


Nina

It was a coat of arms from another sourse that I adjusted both colour and perspective to get as close as possible to the pic'

here 'tis
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Sheffield


                                                        Denn
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 22 February 07 12:17 GMT (UK)
Here is the coat of arms from the Buxton family, scroll down to the diamond shape,

http://www.tibenham.fsnet.co.uk/church.htm

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Thursday 22 February 07 12:20 GMT (UK)
Looking at that last pic' I reckon we can leave out the Royal Vic' Sheffield. Mind you that doesn't rule out Sheffield as a location - there ar elots of fine buildings in Sheffield that would be similar to this one: Mind you, that could be said of many cities. Maybe we should be looking at what other info' is available other than the pic'

                                                         Denn
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Thursday 22 February 07 13:33 GMT (UK)


I was looking at this last night ....

http://www.francisfrith.com/search/england/yorkshire/sheffield/photos/sheffield_photos.htm

Looks like High Street 1900 to me ........   or at least very similar .... different angle of course !   

 :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Dalum on Thursday 22 February 07 13:52 GMT (UK)
That's the Pawson & Brailsford Building on the left, which is still standing. Here's another view: http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s04520.jpg.  Too many floors for our mystery building I think, and the gables aren't Dutch enough  :)

Hugh
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 22 February 07 13:53 GMT (UK)
We found that the scrolls over the doors were the same as the buliding on the corner of Leopold st just off Fargate. Great site though Annie use it all the time.  But it hasnt got that building in it.

That was designed by John Dodsley Webster see below
http://www.lookingatbuildings.org.uk/default.asp?document=3.V.2
there are some Fargate building to his name as well.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Dalum on Thursday 22 February 07 13:54 GMT (UK)
To the eye of faith...could the 3 'blobs' at the top of the crest be the tops of three feathers ?! The Sheffield pub books say there were 15 'Prince of Wales' pubs in Sheffield at one time.

Hugh
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 22 February 07 13:58 GMT (UK)
Thanks Dalum this is one of my favourites in Sheffield.  Same styling.   I think we are looking for yellow sandstone just as a guess.  What do you think?

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Dalum on Thursday 22 February 07 14:12 GMT (UK)
I have been assuming it is red brick, similar to these (amongst those I posted in the SF thread):

Prudential Building, Pinstone Street
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/9564/prudentialbuildingpinstonestreetgw4.jpg
Pinstone Street
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4866/pinstonestreetlh3.jpg

Hugh
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 22 February 07 14:24 GMT (UK)
Dear Dalum

I think you are right, red with cream accents.  I forgot what it looked like for a second.  Having a break, ive been googling too long im seeing things. ::)


Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 22 February 07 14:45 GMT (UK)
Ive been looking at what is hanging from the bracket under the crown.  It looks like a very spiky crown.  Maybe it is the Crown and Cushion after all, we must not rule that out.

Any other suggestions?

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Thursday 22 February 07 14:51 GMT (UK)
There's a link to Sheffield pubs.

 I've waded through some of them including all the ones that have "Railway" at the start, I've also gone through the "A's". There are old and new photo's, if it is a Sheffield pub that's not been demolished it may be shown on there.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sheffieldpubs.fsnet.co.uk/march/warncliffearms.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.sheffieldpubs.fsnet.co.uk/Business/pubs/warncliffeking.htm&h=264&w=211&sz=20&hl=en&start=56&tbnid=TV2Eb23x9p1RfM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=90&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwharncliffe%2B%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26cr%3DcountryUK%7CcountryGB%26sa%3DN

Hope it helps.

Michelle
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 22 February 07 15:11 GMT (UK)
Michelle

I have looked at most of the site before.  Cant say I have looked at every one but most of the obvious ones.  Not found anything yet,  maybe it is more under a hotel rather a than pub.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Thursday 22 February 07 15:22 GMT (UK)
Hi Sue,

Oh well, I'll keep my eyes open. I've a particular interest in Sheffield anyway. Sorry that the very long link I posted seems to have distorted the page. I'm new to this, learning as I go along. Unfortunately the kids are off school this week (half term) and since I've found this website I keep forgetting to feed them etc. They've never got away with watching so much junk on TV. I've only just remembered to start cooking the evening meal. Whoops!

Michelle 
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 22 February 07 15:39 GMT (UK)
I'm still wondering who has the original...as a better scan would help incredibly...
anyone who's brought it in to work on knows it's the smallest of the small for web
viewing only ...Can't we ask for a good shot of things so that you can solve it sooner...?  :-\
  There are wonderful ornate window decorations...either wrought iron or beveled
cut glass with leaded separations...

 The crest seems to have a three point base...enlarged to show shadows it almost
has a floral appearance, as I see eight protrusions in all...although this is likely just
pixels fooling me...it may be a scroll at top and bottom.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Thursday 22 February 07 16:08 GMT (UK)


Hi Michelle !

Try this to make your url shorter !! just go into your post and modify !!

http://www.rootschat.com/links/

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Thursday 22 February 07 16:15 GMT (UK)
Hi Annie

I've had a quick look, but although there's no link on this email it still appears to be super-wide. I'll get my pal to come around and show me what to do, I'm a bit of a techno-phobe and hopeless at reading "destructions".

Michelle  ::)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carol22 on Friday 23 February 07 14:42 GMT (UK)
Hi there all,
The mention previously about The Station Hotel being the Victoria is current, in c1900 the Station Hotel was on The Wicker, just at the side of the Wicker Arches, the current Victoria was at the back.
all gone now road redevelopment, but I will look for some stuff on the web.

Caz
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Friday 23 February 07 17:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Caz

Do you know when the current Victoria Hotel was built?

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Friday 23 February 07 21:03 GMT (UK)
I think 1889.  See below.

Sue

http://www.railwayarchive.org.uk/stories/pages.php?enum=LE119&pnum=2&maxp=4
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Friday 23 February 07 21:23 GMT (UK)
I thought there might be some building at the side of Victoria Station but the gradient is quite steep on most sides with the river on one side.  Been in local studies this after,  looked at loads of pubs and the buildings around Leopold St and Fargate. 

Also looked in the books further afield Rotherham, Doncaster, Chesterfield, Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester still cant find it.  Each city had similar styled buildings though of that age, but Leeds and Manchester buildings were too big though. ???

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Saturday 24 February 07 19:37 GMT (UK)
I think the "flower" is a Fleur de Lys the Prince of Wales feathers. The sign over the door clearly says hotel. Could it be the Prince of Wales Hotel?

Michelle
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: jaywit on Saturday 24 February 07 19:47 GMT (UK)
This one's a good way away from Sheffieldhttp://www.britanniahotels.com/hotel_home.asp?Page=134
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Saturday 24 February 07 20:46 GMT (UK)
Sheffield has a Prince of Wales Rd, Maybe there used to be a hotel of the same name on it? The Sheffield Family History would probably know.

Michelle
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Saturday 24 February 07 20:58 GMT (UK)
Well, there's a Prince of Wales pub in Sheffield, and it must get the prize for the longest website address in history!

http://www.princeofwaleshotelandrestaurantrenishawsheffield.co.uk/ (http://www.princeofwaleshotelandrestaurantrenishawsheffield.co.uk/default.asp)

Wouldn't want to have to type that after too many vodkas!

However, the photos are all interior shots.  :(

cheers

Paul

Have modified URL

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Saturday 24 February 07 21:05 GMT (UK)

I tried the link but it's coming up blank.

Nothing new for me though. I'll Google search it.

Michelle
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Saturday 24 February 07 21:17 GMT (UK)

Had a look through these old postcard images, but didn't see the building in any shots, although, my eyes would have missed the "in the distance" bldgs....
http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/images.php?class=nostalgic&cat=spc
Maybe we should ask if anyone on this site has seen that building in their photo files... ;)

Also...& Maybe a dumb question...but ...I see names like this:
Station Hotel ( url no longer works, natch) - Website for the Station Hotel pub located in Treeton, Sheffield. or another says Renishaw, Sheffield....so if these are little outbranches of old towns absorbed by the city ( I have no idea what it means here, but that's how it is done in our city) Could there be a Buxton, Sheffield area?

 :P J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Saturday 24 February 07 21:23 GMT (UK)
Boy, Michelle ...I do not get a fleur de lis at all out of that :P...But then you ARE the one with the stone cutters in the family...;D :D ;) J.J.

Paul your url has <a> at the end of it for some reason...???
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Saturday 24 February 07 21:49 GMT (UK)
Hi JJ

Its the Prince of Wales Feathers carved in the plaque. You can make out the shadows below each feather and there'd be a pin, or as in the link below, a crown holding the feathers and they splay out below hence the apparent symmetry below.

http://static.flickr.com/68/227990471_5088c5446d.jpg

Michelle  ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Saturday 24 February 07 22:03 GMT (UK)
Thanks JJ - have modified the URL...

Michelle - is this the plaque you're looking at?

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Saturday 24 February 07 22:09 GMT (UK)
The street sign is pretty illegible.  However, I think it's a fair guess to say that the second part is 'Road'.   The proportion would seem 'wrong' for it to be 'Street'.

This would make the first part no more than 5 or 6 letters.

What do you think?

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 24 February 07 22:19 GMT (UK)

Looks like 2 words ......... theres a gap !! ....... maybe it's St ............. Road  ??? ??? ???

Just found this list ........ ( no St's on there !!  :P ) but would this help ??

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~engsheffield/webpages/streetnames.htm

Annie
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 24 February 07 22:34 GMT (UK)


Here you go ! .... Paul will like this .... pictures of all the older pubs in Sheffield !!  :)

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~engsheffield/photos/pubs3/aapubs.htm

I'm going to go through them too !

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Saturday 24 February 07 22:42 GMT (UK)
Hey Paul,

I have circled the bit I was referring to

Can you see the fleurs de lys ?
I have sharpened the image

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Saturday 24 February 07 23:03 GMT (UK)
I think I could be persuaded that it is a fleur de lys, yes!

I have to squint a lot though!

Just off to join Annie on a pub crawl!  ;D


Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Saturday 24 February 07 23:31 GMT (UK)
We'll probably be able to rule this one out soon enough, but did anyone think the Brown Cow (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~engsheffield/photos/pubs3/browncow.htm) looked familiar?

Before you dismiss it out of hand, I was wondering whether a new set of windows on the building to the right might not disguise our mystery hotel?

But I think I'm clutching at straws after that lightening pub crawl - Gal, you're sure some drinker, Annie!  ;)


Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Saturday 24 February 07 23:36 GMT (UK)
How now, Paul E?  ;)

Oh, nevermind... I am still on "It's a B not an  R" mode...so who am I to talk? :P
I have a feeling the poor old thing got demolished and we're looking for straws...
but having fun! J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Saturday 24 February 07 23:56 GMT (UK)

Boy Paul !

I can't drink and run like you ! .............. didn't find what I wanted but quite enjoyed that !! ..... there's some really cool pubs in Sheffield ! ;D

I can't remember which one I thought was a possible ...... better go for another round !!  ::) ::) ::)

I think you're right JJ ...... about it being demolished ..... but shouldn't there still be some memories at least !

Prince of Wales in Southport looks quite nice !!  :D :D :D

PS No ! I don't think it was the Brown Cow !! ...... the address isn't big enough !!  ::)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Sunday 25 February 07 00:07 GMT (UK)
Just had my hubby here and he went kookoo as well trying to figure out if anything was prominant enough to pinpoint anything...both of us want to know what kind of program has the "hotel" lettering enhancement" on it, Paul! ...If the crown and CR were put there for the Royal visit in '05, they likely wouldn't be on it anymore, but the architechture wouldn't be changed that much to modernize it, would it?

I really want to win a lottery and just fly about to check for myself where this hotel may be... I'd meet you all at a sheffield pub....better check my tickets!
 ;D J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Sunday 25 February 07 00:19 GMT (UK)
Could it be on a Charles Street?...reaching at that straw...

Has anyone checked the directories for hotel names in that era? J.J.

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Sunday 25 February 07 00:59 GMT (UK)
Memories, oh memories!
      Been in a lot of those in my mispent whatsit.

                                                       Denn
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Ninatoo on Sunday 25 February 07 03:25 GMT (UK)
What IS that round thing hanging off the wrought iron (above the door about half way up)...the place where I would have thought a sign should be?

Nina
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Sunday 25 February 07 11:45 GMT (UK)
Hi JJ

I've enlarged the lettering and put them next to each other.   I'm pretty sure the second letter is an 'R' - if you look, you can see that it is stood, like the first letter, on a ledge.
As for the first letter, at first thinking it was a 'C', I'm now wondering whether it mightn't be a 'G' ...  ???

(My first guess at 'Hotel' above the door was based on the 'un-enhanced' picture, but knightstemplar's enhanced picture cracked it for me!)

Ninatoo - I can't see a round thing hanging from the bracket - but I can see what may be a flag, that has been blurred by the slow shutter speed of the camera...

cheers

Paul

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: julianb on Sunday 25 February 07 12:08 GMT (UK)
I'v been lurking on this thread, but have not had anything to add to date.

Paul's former Brown Cow pub is in the Wicker, Sheffield.  Any earlier Royal Victoria Hotel also might have been in the Wicker (according to previous posts).  The Wicker is one of the few significant roads in Sheffield on the flat (Sheffield is like Rome - seven hills - but I'm not aware of blood flowing in the River Don!).

The Wicker is now a mix of old and new. I assume its proximity to the Lower Don Valley (where the steel works were, and in some cases still are) would have meant quite a bit of associated bomb damage in WW2.  So this building may well not be there any more (if it was to start with).

JULIAN
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Sunday 25 February 07 12:31 GMT (UK)
That's useful, Julian.

My initial thoughts about this being a railway hotel still hold for me, and Googling threw up references to an old station of the Central Railway which was in the Wicker.

I wonder if we are starting to narrow this down?

Has anyone got access to old Sheffield street maps that might show this area?

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Sunday 25 February 07 12:33 GMT (UK)
Just found this...

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~engsheffield/oldadverts/wickermap.htm
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Sunday 25 February 07 12:46 GMT (UK)
I've just found a map of Sheffield on the web from c1890's

I don't know the area, but my guess is that if this IS a railway hotel, it will be located somewhere in the area I've marked.

It certainly isn't the Royal Victoria adjacent to the Victoria Station, - but the older stations might be  a good bet.

cheers

Paul

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: heywood on Sunday 25 February 07 12:49 GMT (UK)
How good are you at working out these clues! Well done.

I just think that it is C B - the lower part looks too curved to be an R but I know little about signs!

best wishes
heywood
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: bearkat on Sunday 25 February 07 12:51 GMT (UK)
Has anyone trawled through the Pictures of Sheffielf site?

http://www.picturesheffield.co.uk/database_search.php
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: heywood on Sunday 25 February 07 12:54 GMT (UK)
and the crown and the letters do look as though they are added - for a celebration perhaps
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Sunday 25 February 07 13:30 GMT (UK)
I'm fairly convinced its "G R" for George Rex (like ER for Elizabeth Regina). 

I've been looking at the style of architecture and it seems very similar to the Great Western style.  The "Hotel" carved into the stone above the door and the size of the building also points towards it being attached to a Railway station. That would also explain what looks like a shop at the far left corner.

I've looked at some of those pictures on the Sheffield site especially the "George" ones. There's one with a carriage in front of a building, but I can't enlarge the picture (don't know how).

Michelle 
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Sunday 25 February 07 13:44 GMT (UK)
Can you post the link. Michelle?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Sunday 25 February 07 13:49 GMT (UK)
Yes definately G R.  You lot have been busy.

Michb-Why would it point towards a railway hotel?  Didnt hotel just mean hotel? Could you post where you are looking sounds interesting. Also would like to know which George pub you are looking at. I have looked at that many pictures on picturesheffield I must have seen it at some time.  Did you know that if you look on the local studies computer with one of the assistants there are more pictures than on the public one.

But I wouldnt show local studies the photo I think they are fed up with it now. ;D
Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Sunday 25 February 07 13:55 GMT (UK)
Hi I've been away for a while and there seems to be several more pages to this thread since I last looked.
Since my last visit there have been some very interesting observations.
Can anyone do anything with the road sign I find it very unusual for the sign to be in 2 parts, very practical but is that a common feature of any town ?
I still insist that the crown is a 'queens' but it may have been readily available for the celebrations, GR certainly indicates George., I can also see some lights festooned around the windows.
Before the onset of digital photography, whenever I took my camera anywhere I had the film developed when I got back home so although Sheffield seems to be favourite don't get stuck there.
The sign above the door - could that be a dragon on there ?
The window below the sign - I don't see a flag just a man wearing a top hat sat side on and looking out and curtains, then again my eyesight is atrocious these days.
The shop on the corner - all the items in the window look to be white or very light coloured ? any ideas on what they might be ?

Dave


Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Sunday 25 February 07 14:00 GMT (UK)
My father suggested that the shop might be a jewellers with the light patches being ring trays.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Sunday 25 February 07 14:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul

http://www.picturesheffield.co.uk/database_search.php

Re- Railway connection - I was just refering to the style of architure. Red brick (a guess) arched windows, lots of small panes in the top part, bigger panes in the bottom and the Size (quite a big Hotel for outside of London). It just looks sort of "stationy"

On the link to the Sheff. Pics. I clicked on "G" and went through the pics to do with George. Also looked at "S" Station, "R" Railway and "V" Victoria. I checked out all the pictures connected to the things that rang bells with me.

Isn't it great that this Pic can generate so much interest?

What about emailing a link to the Sheffield Pub group. I've got to dash now as I'm off out. Back sooooooon.

Michelle  :P
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Dalum on Sunday 25 February 07 14:28 GMT (UK)
the thing hanging from the bracket...

To me it is roughly circular but with the top 'gathered in' like a purse, bag or sack.

Hugh
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Sunday 25 February 07 14:37 GMT (UK)
What I have found is it is a spiky crown with a cresent on its back underneath.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Sunday 25 February 07 14:46 GMT (UK)
It seems that some of you may be having difficulties with viewing this photo. Use the enhanced picture on p 2 right click and save to desktop. Open with Windows Picture and Fax viewer or similar software then it is easy to enlarge any area.
The item hanging under the crown is a shield. It hangs from a pole supported by an ornate wrought iron bracket.
Immediately under it is a window. In the top left there is a shade like the one in the window to its left and higher. In the lower half of the same window and the lower half of the window on the right are curtains similar to the ones in the window to the right of the door. Also in that window there looks to me to be a man wearing a waistcoat over a white shirt and a top hat.
Above the window above him there is a large curved object that may be a blemish on the photo, it obscures part of the top right window.
The light coloured object on the shield looks rather like a 'G' on its back and is reminiscent of dragons drawn that way.

hope that helps
Dave
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Sunday 25 February 07 14:54 GMT (UK)
Well, I've just searched all 1400+ images tagged as 'Hotel' on the Sheffield Pic site - nothing that remotely resembles our mystery hotel.  But hey - I think I'm more intimately acquainted with old Sheffield than someone who lived there 50 years!  ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Sunday 25 February 07 15:04 GMT (UK)
Well done Paul E,  I thought I was the only one who had matchsticks holding my eyes open.

dave the tyke - please show me the proof of the shield as I can see the wall and plaque clearly behind it, doesnt the shape you mention belong to the wall plaque.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Sunday 25 February 07 15:07 GMT (UK)


Here's a menu .... that may be of interest !! note the dates !!  ::)

http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/images.php?class=nostalgic&cat=spc&pictureRef=spc223

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: hepburn on Sunday 25 February 07 15:21 GMT (UK)
On the Sheffield forum it mentioned Thomas Buxton having some connection with the hotel,it also mentioned two addresses Carver street and Paradise road (I think)could any of these be checked on the 1901 census,Just in case there is something to go on....
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Sunday 25 February 07 15:38 GMT (UK)
Here's the bit I was looking at Sue

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Sunday 25 February 07 15:43 GMT (UK)
This building is bigger than it appears on the photo.  I think it extends quite a bit off to the right.  So there may well be more letters after the G/C and R...

Also, I think the shop is slightly around the corner.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Dalum on Sunday 25 February 07 15:45 GMT (UK)
Dave,

The object hardly reaches, if at all, the window glass below. The whole of the left hand pane is visible. Your sketch of the 'shield' seems to come too low?!

The oblect looks three dimensional to me  :) (But then, I have a headache from staring at it  :D )

Hugh
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Dalum on Sunday 25 February 07 15:52 GMT (UK)
I was also thinking that to get such a wide view the photographer must be some distance away... so that the street must be very wide, or it's an open space/square ?!

Hugh
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Sunday 25 February 07 15:54 GMT (UK)
Hugh, yes I drew an oversize line round the shield so as not to cover the edges and doing it three dimensionally was more than I could manage.

Paul E I think you may have set the shop back much further than it should be. (if at all ) Look at the horizontal lines above the shop, there is no mis-match at the vertical line that is at the corner of the shop. There would be if the shop was set back to any extent.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Sunday 25 February 07 16:05 GMT (UK)
Hi Dave

Yes, probably a bit too much, but I do think there's a set-back - the continuation of the line could maybe be accounted for by the angle of the photograph?

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Sunday 25 February 07 16:36 GMT (UK)
From the last photo I can make out the "Shield" hanging from the wrought iron pole. Just a thought but could it be a very dirty sign. Remember how polluted Sheffield was then with the steel industry pumping filth into the air. Nothing lived in the rivers at that time (unless it fell in).

I've also been looking at pic's on the hedgerow site and noted the King and Queens visit in 1905.
http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/images.php?class=nostalgic&cat=spc&pictureRef=spc273 This link shows a street with flags and bunting and gives an idea of how they'd be dressed in July (must've been a bit cold).

Michelle
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: heywood on Sunday 25 February 07 16:39 GMT (UK)
having followed instructions how to enlarge - I think it is definitely 'R' and 'G' - if that helps anyone at all!
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: bearkat on Sunday 25 February 07 16:41 GMT (UK)
can you enlarge the street name? LOL
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Sunday 25 February 07 17:10 GMT (UK)
Here's a link to back up the G & R theory. Also around the right time for a Royal celebration. 1911.

http://pinetreeweb.com/bp-kgv-coronation.htm

Michelle
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Sunday 25 February 07 17:39 GMT (UK)
Yes, Annie...the royal visit was in 1905, and they called it the visit of the "King and Queen!"  Here they also show from the 1905 parade photos that the parade street was "the wicker"!
http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/images.php?class=nostalgic&cat=spc&pictureRef=spc273%3E
http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/images.php?class=nostalgic&cat=spc&pictureRef=spc271%3Ehttp://www.hedgerow.co.uk/images.php?
class=nostalgic&cat=spc&pictureRef=spc269%3E

You can see similar architechture but not as elaborate...
http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/images.php?class=nostalgic&cat=spc&pictureRef=spc270%3E
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Sunday 25 February 07 17:42 GMT (UK)
Perhaps we aren't looking at the main street side of the building, but the side that faced the station, so we aren't finding the same view in the street photos? To solve this one, I think we'll likely need some older eyes and memories...

and yes, Paul, I think you have convinced me it's an "R"  ;D  J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Sunday 25 February 07 17:48 GMT (UK)
Here's the only hotel that I can find that was completelt destroyed in ww2 Sheffield...The Marples Hotel...I found lots of pics of it destroyed, but only this of it standing...( 7 stories )
http://www.chrishobbs.com/marples1940.htm
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: PrueM on Sunday 25 February 07 20:09 GMT (UK)
Crikey, you lot have been busy!!  :o ;D

Now, regarding the date, if you cast your mind back, I had a stab at this:

Clothes are perfect for 1911/1912.  I would say it's GRV's coronation.

I stick by that date.  Don't think it's any earlier - deffo not 1905 anyway.

As for the hanging plaque thing, I had a fiddle in Photoshop to try to show it up better.  I think it's one solid plaque with a central design, rather than two separate bits.  The lighter bit in the middle has the correct perspective to be part of the plaque, rather than the wall behind.

Can't actually help with anything practical yet, but will keep my eye on this thread!  ;D

Cheers
Prue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Sunday 25 February 07 21:38 GMT (UK)
Having looked at many pics of the Victoria Hotel including this one that shows the whole front and roofline I would certainly rule that one out.

But presuming that it is Sheffield. What about the other railway station in Sheffield (was it the midland line?), was there a hotel of theses proportions there?


                                          Denn
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Sunday 25 February 07 22:49 GMT (UK)
Sorry, Prue, we weren't trying to redate the photo, but were wondering if that's when some of the decor went up...We agreed the clothes were in that era ;D...good job in photoshop, as I see the wrought iron jutting out clearly now...My eyes are getting shot I think!  :D  J.J.

p.s. There was a mention of the Wicker having an older station hotel...thus the parade shots....
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: juliew on Sunday 25 February 07 22:53 GMT (UK)
It looks like they had electricity, going by the light bulbs around the window above the B or R and on the crown, also on the 2 large letters.
Julie
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Sunday 25 February 07 23:11 GMT (UK)
There was electric in the hotel but have you noticed there are no outside lights or tram lines/cables.  This has puzzled me for a bit.

I think we can rule out the Royal Victoria Hotel theory out as the one on the old pictures is the one still there and it is in such a position that a hotel of that size would not fit on the area left.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Sunday 25 February 07 23:21 GMT (UK)
The other station hotel near the Wicker arches is

http://citysnapper.org/dm/sheff2002/09/2002090318stationhotel.jpg

I think someone has already posted an earlier photo

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Sunday 25 February 07 23:37 GMT (UK)
The light bit on the hanging plaque / shield now looks more like a ram's horn or perhaps a sea horse than a dragon thanks for the enhancement Prue. Does that ring any bells or have heraldic significance?

Dave
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Monday 26 February 07 00:02 GMT (UK)
Sorry, Sue, I must be missing some postings! The length of the thread, I guess...J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Monday 26 February 07 00:44 GMT (UK)
Could it be a Yorkshire Rose on the hanging sign? Just clutching at straws now...

Michelle
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Monday 26 February 07 00:47 GMT (UK)
Here's an example.
http://www.grangehotel.co.uk/images/press_ytb_award.gif

Michelle x
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: suzard on Monday 26 February 07 01:11 GMT (UK)
clutching at any straws which are left over!!!

Could the rose be the Rose of lancaster

On page 3 Jill posts" Victora Hotel Station Approach Sheffield-was the station for trains to Manchester.

Could the hotel be inn manchester

I have just reseached someone who worked at the Paladine Hotel, Hunts Bank Manchester in 1891.-this was next to the Victoria Railway station Manchester

The enumerators walk is
37 & 35 boundary St -Public house (name unknown)
33 Police officer
31
16 Chapel Rd Chemical and Cotton Manufacturer
6 boundary St -hatter
1 Railway Offices
Walkers Croft Railway Offices
Palatine Hotel. (palatine was the first Duke of lancaster)

The hotel Boarders were professional people and there was quite a large staff .
The hotel was next to Victoria Railway Station. manchester.

I have seen a small photo of present day Victoria railway - a better picture would perhaps show if this hotel was similar (or the same) one you are seeking?????????????

Or am I putting another spanner in the works???


Suz
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Monday 26 February 07 01:20 GMT (UK)
hi Suz

Don't think its a spanner, I'm don't think the original "poster" was certain where it was. I think the architecture is similar to the "Great Central" style and obviously most of their hotels were near railway stations. I think there's been so much demolition in Sheffield and other cities that we'll be lucky to find out where it is.

I think we're one of the few awake.

Michelle  :o
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: suzard on Monday 26 February 07 01:32 GMT (UK)
It looks like the manchester buildings are still the original ones -there is quite a bit of history re that station -maybe I'll find a decent pic to check out.


best time of the day to be awake-at least the house is quiet-hubbies snoringand the dogs asleep -so don't have to feed or walk anyone!!!!


Suz
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Monday 26 February 07 01:47 GMT (UK)
Since I discovered Rootschat and I've just had 3-free days on Ancestry.com my lot think the cooker's broken. The kids have been off all week and they kept having to remind me they needed feeding.

Still I've found out a lot, but only managed to get back to 1830's. I'm waiting for a death cert. and hoping it'll give me a maiden name. I've got quite a connection to Sheffield. Apparently my g-g-grandad did some marble carving on the Town Hall. I rang them to ask if they records of tradesmen, but no one seemed to know. I'm not sure where to try next. Don't s'pose you've got any ideas?

Michelle  ??? 
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Monday 26 February 07 01:56 GMT (UK)
The mystery hotel is obviously not the Manchester Midland Railyway Hotel, but there are similarities in style I think.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ae/

MODERATOR COMMENT. Very Long Link Shrunk with
http://www.rootschat.com/links/
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Ninatoo on Monday 26 February 07 02:53 GMT (UK)
Everyone go back to Prue's post on page 9 where she has a detail of the sign/banner thingy hanging off the wrought iron, with a picture of what looks like a horn, a tail, a seahorse, a shell, etc.  Above it, can anyone else faintly see the word Sea? Or is it Lea?  I made the picture lighter on my own pc and it makes the word easier to see...but it is way too teeny for here.

Nina

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Monday 26 February 07 07:57 GMT (UK)
Morning you sleepless people,
My eyes were getting too blurred last night. From Prue's picture p9 and your observations Nina.
I think I made out a very feint 4 letter word above the white bit and a 3 letter one below, this would be more in step with balancing out the 'picture' I thought maybe a letter 'C' or 'G' at the beginning of the first word and perhaps 'T' or 'J' at the beginning of the lower one ??
but make your own minds up or I'll be putting words that aren't there into the frame.

Dave
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: PrueM on Monday 26 February 07 08:20 GMT (UK)
Hmmm... ??? ??? ???
I can't see any words at all on the hanging thing.   :-\
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Ninatoo on Monday 26 February 07 08:31 GMT (UK)
I am now pretty sure the top word says Tea, so the bottom one may say house or something, but I can't see a bottom word.

I will post my meagrely small picture to try to show you the word Tea, Prue:

(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/ninatoo/Tea.jpg)

Even if I have obstructed it you may be able to now find it on the original.  All I did was lighten the picture and maybe played around with the sharpener.

Nina

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: PrueM on Monday 26 February 07 10:24 GMT (UK)
Ah, yep - I see it now.   ::)  Does seem to say "Tea" doesn't it  ???

How inconsiderate of the Hotelier not to put the name of his Hotel above the door with the sign "HOTEL"!  >:( ;D

Prue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Monday 26 February 07 23:54 GMT (UK)
Mich b I found the Town Hall very unhelpful everytime Iwent, sorry Town Hall but you are, You would be better going to local studies or the business section upstairs at the library.  Or drop me a PM and I will see what I can find for you.

Everyone else keep up the good work.  Dont just look at Sheffield, just because it says Sheffield on the other side of the card doesnt mean it it is Sheffield.

Sue :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 27 February 07 00:25 GMT (UK)
Do we know anything about the Station Hotel identified by Michelle - ie when it was built?  ???
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Tuesday 27 February 07 00:41 GMT (UK)
Paul E

1903 see
http://www.e-travelguide.info/midland/
Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 27 February 07 00:55 GMT (UK)
Sorry, Sue - getting confused - I meant the one you posted of the Station Hotel near wicker arches.   Any idea when this was built?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Tuesday 27 February 07 00:58 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul

See top of page 10 and I've put a similar link in to the Manchester Midland Hotel. It's clearly not our Mystery Hotel, but I think it illustrates the similarities in architectural style and the likelihood of it being a Railway hotel somewhere.

Happy googling!

Michelle  :o
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Tuesday 27 February 07 01:08 GMT (UK)
Paul E

Sorry cant find build date at the moment, googled it but info isnt coming up too tired(me).  Got to go bed.  Computer keeps crashing,  if it does it again its going thro the window.  See you all tomorrow.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Tuesday 27 February 07 19:23 GMT (UK)
Have been following this thread with interest and have become quite addicted.
Following the Railway Hotel theory, and the "it looks similar in style to the Midland" I embarked on a quest and here is what I have come up with;
    The Midland Railway seemed to build Hotels where ever they built a Station; varying in size and style over time. There is one in Derby, Manchester, Morecambe and the big Daddy at St Pancras. So why not in Sheffield? Well there was a Midland Railway Hotel at the time of 1901 census and low and behold it appears to have been on a corner, the enumerator states that he covered, amongst other streets;

   "The left side of Pond St. from Harmer Lane to the Porter Brook: The Midland Hotel                (entrance in Sheaf Street or Station Road) and the Railway Station Premises."
     
        The info he put in brackets led me to assume the building went around a corner.
Have looked at old maps to discover where it might have been but Station road does not appear, although there are a couple of streets left blank off Sheaf St. so it could be one of those.
The Station was built or completed in 1870, and of course The Midland Railway have a Shield.


Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: bearkat on Tuesday 27 February 07 19:32 GMT (UK)
There is a picture of The Midland Hotel on the Pictures of Sheffield site.  It is much smaller than the building we are looking for.  It is quite plain with a rounded end.


Were old Sheffield buildings of this time more likely to have been built of brick or local stone?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 27 February 07 19:35 GMT (UK)


I have been looking for pictures of the Marples Hotel ....... though I think it may have been too high !!  :-\

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~engsheffield/blitz/blitz.htm

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: bearkat on Tuesday 27 February 07 19:39 GMT (UK)
It's that sort of style but 'our' hotel looks grander.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: jaywit on Tuesday 27 February 07 19:42 GMT (UK)
There are a couple of things that have bugged me about this from the beginning. Firstly it is on flat ground and appears to be a good sized area of flat ground, which must cut down the possibilities of where it could have been in Sheffield, and secondly there appears to be a small enclosed 'garden' in front of the windows, would a city centre hotel of that period have that feature? I would have thought at that time not much would  grow in central Sheffield.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 27 February 07 19:47 GMT (UK)
Have been following this thread with interest and have become quite addicted.
Following the Railway Hotel theory, and the "it looks similar in style to the Midland" I embarked on a quest and here is what I have come up with;
    The Midland Railway seemed to build Hotels where ever they built a Station; varying in size and style over time. There is one in Derby, Manchester, Morecambe and the big Daddy at St Pancras. So why not in Sheffield? Well there was a Midland Railway Hotel at the time of 1901 census and low and behold it appears to have been on a corner, the enumerator states that he covered, amongst other streets;

   "The left side of Pond St. from Harmer Lane to the Porter Brook: The Midland Hotel                (entrance in Sheaf Street or Station Road) and the Railway Station Premises."
     
        The info he put in brackets led me to assume the building went around a corner.
Have looked at old maps to discover where it might have been but Station road does not appear, although there are a couple of streets left blank off Sheaf St. so it could be one of those.
The Station was built or completed in 1870, and of course The Midland Railway have a Shield.




Hi Joanne !

You've obviously put a lot of thought into that !!  the research sounds good .... even if it's not the right one !! :) ....... I just tried to find a picture .... but I can't find one ..... ( not my day today !!  ;D ) can you ?

Annie  :)

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Tuesday 27 February 07 20:05 GMT (UK)
No I havent managed to find a picture of the "Midland Hotel Sheaf Street" but the Picture on Sheffield site is a different "Midlands Hotel" and is located on the corner of Spital Hill and Carlysle Street.
The Midlands Hotel on Sheaf St. next to the Station is obviously no longer there but some information may be available at local planning department archives, the bus station looks as though it needed some space, maybe it was around that area.
does anybody know which was or is Station Road, it must have lead off Sheaf Street?
Joanne
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 27 February 07 20:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Joanne

Brilliant deductive research!

The Sheffield Genealogy site has a 1940's map which has, frustratingly, been removed 'for copyright reasons'.   It lists a Station Road indexed as J7; Sheaf Street is indexed E7-E8; Pond Street is indexed E7-E8 and Harmer Lane as E8.  Midland Station is indexed as E8.

Not a great deal of help.   I wonder if anyone has access to a more detailed map of Sheffield?

cheers

Paul

PS
I asked Harry McFry, but it's out of his league!
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Ninatoo on Tuesday 27 February 07 20:31 GMT (UK)
Not sure if it will be of any use, but "Old Maps" has a map of Sheffield for the year 1855.  It does not look all that great, but then I don't know the area.  Just search for Sheffield.

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/

Nina

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 27 February 07 20:31 GMT (UK)

I asked Harry McFry, but it's out of his league!

Now how would he know ..... he's too busy doing other things ??!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I have never been to Sheffield so I have no idea where you're talking about !!  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 27 February 07 20:42 GMT (UK)
Annie, I have googled station hotels and old photos of Sheffield & surrounding areas until I am blue in the face well, red in the eyes, anyway....Joanne's theory sounds good to me...as it obviously doesn't exist anymore...   We need some eyes & brains older than ours... ;)   :P  J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 27 February 07 20:42 GMT (UK)
White's Directory of Sheffield & Rotherham, 1901, mentions a Midland Hotel at Spittal Hill.

Is this the old or new one?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 27 February 07 20:45 GMT (UK)
Annie, I have googled station hotels and old photos of Sheffield & surrounding areas until I am blue in the face well, red in the eyes, anyway....Joanne's theory sounds good to me...as it obviously doesn't exist anymore...   We need some eyes & brains older than ours... ;)   :P  J.J.

I think you're right JJ ....... Paul it's up to you !

JJ and me are going on another pub crawl !!  ;D ;D ;D

I'll get me coat !
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 27 February 07 20:47 GMT (UK)
Ooh  ;D ;D ;D  - it also mentions a Midland Station Hotel, proprietor George Wood, Sheaf Street & Pond Street!

http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp (http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp)

PS

Annie and JJ - don't you DARE go now after all the work you've done!  With your two brains and Joanne's beauty (or was it vice versa?)  ;D , we could be onto something!
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 27 February 07 20:52 GMT (UK)
In a minute, , Annie, just got to find my boots!  ;D  J.

Paul that is exciting....
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: julianb on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:02 GMT (UK)
Spital Hill is an extension of the Wicker - the other side of the Railway Bridge, going out of the city centre.  It is a slow hill (if you see what I mean, but definitely a hill).

The 1855 old map is too early unfortunately.  There is no Sheaf Street - I guess that came from the time of the railway when they must have covered up the River Sheaf.  It runs underground for a mile orrso from the edge of the city centre, past (under) the (Midland) station area until it flows into the River Don.  I guess that's why they called it Sheaf Street!  An expert on the underground river is one Jarvis Cocker, but I don't expect he's a member of RootsChat.

There could well have been a hotel by the station.  Unfortunately they built a horrible office block there (just been demolished - because they are making the area ouside the staion sexy with a massive steel winding structure and cascading fountains).

Will think on  ::)

JULIAN
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:02 GMT (UK)
1895 Sheffield - but is this the Midland Station Hotel referred to?  ???
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:08 GMT (UK)
You all are putting so much effort into this! hope there's an answer soon...

What if someone writes here:
http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/in-your-area/planning-and-city-development/urban-design--conservation/conservation/listed-buildings

and inqures about the basic information gleaned, plus the photo...

I also found this, 1904 Sheffield timeline
Officially opend in this year were, George lV Inn, Infirmary Road
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~engsheffield/webpages/timeline.htm
it also mentions other hotels I don't remember seeing photos of...
e.g. Grand Hotel, Balm Green

I can't remember what we have and haven't covered and I've been perusing censuses all day...what do you think? as I'm off to do something much less exciting than barhopping, unfortunately...
But I'm with you in spirit, Annie...or...in spirits.... Hugs to all, can't wait to see what happens next!  J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:14 GMT (UK)
Where did you find the map?
 It should be the right one but how could it also have an entrance on Sheaf Street as stated by the enumerator? and what of the one you found in the directory on Sheaf St. and Pond St.?  ???

Think I need a drink too.
Joanne
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: juliew on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:15 GMT (UK)
Curious Fox have maps for Sheffield, showing Sheaf Street and Flat Pond Street, Jaywit said about the ground being flat, could be.

http://www.curiousfox.com/

Julie
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:20 GMT (UK)
Just noticed it is on Pond Street too, if the whole corner was the actual site, this is probably the right one that isn't there, (bit like the man on the stair).
Pond St. would be just about the right size for the sign in the photo too.
Joanne
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: julianb on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:20 GMT (UK)
Paul's map shows the location of the Midland Hotel which was referenced in the 1901 census.  

A quick reminder - two railway companies - Midland and Central.  The Midland Railway hotel is the one we are struggling to find, but there might have been an earlier Midland Hotel in the Wicker/Spital Hill area, because there used to be a station for the Midland Railway on the north side of the Central Railway on the 1855 map.

Confused?  You bet  ;D
Curious Fox have maps for Sheffield, showing Sheaf Street and Flat Pond Street, Jaywit said about the ground being flat, could be.

http://www.curiousfox.com/

Julie

Yes it is flattish down by Pond St/Sheaf St - the river is underneath it all!

JULIAN
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:22 GMT (UK)
Where did you find the map?
 It should be the right one but how could it also have an entrance on Sheaf Street as stated by the enumerator? and what of the one you found in the directory on Sheaf St. and Pond St.?  ???

Think I need a drink too.
Joanne

I've already succumbed to the G&Ts, I'm afraid.   I can only think that Station Road was subsumed by Sheaf Street, IF this is the same hotel.

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:26 GMT (UK)
the Midland station near the Wicker is shown as a "goods yard" on one of the maps i looked at but I looked at so many i can't remember which.  ;D

Joanne

Ps  just off to the off-licence
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: broakham on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:34 GMT (UK)
   If you search for 'Midland Station Hotel' on PictureSheffield.com there is a long distance shot down Howard Street which shows a 4-story building. This would put it very near to the station itself, so the Midland Hotel shown on Paul Es 1895 map is probably it. However, the 1905 Godfrey map does not show it, and the area where it was (and Station Road) has become a goods yard.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Broakham

Yes, I just found that photo (http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s17707) now

It looks a bit big to be 'our' hotel, doesn't it?

Does this mean we're back to the bleedin' drawing board?  ??? ::)

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: julianb on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:52 GMT (UK)
Does this mean we're back to the bleedin' drawing board? ??? ::)

We are bleedin' on the drawing board  :o

I thought I had a possibility with the Corn Exchange but the storeys are wrong
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01as/  (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01as/)

JULIAN
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:53 GMT (UK)
OO Paul I have just saved the same photo.  Got to be?????  Like the map.

Sue

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 27 February 07 21:58 GMT (UK)


Can somebody tell me what this building is on the left with the "to let " sign ?? and is it possible to see it full faced ??

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/ff/Fitzalan_Square.jpg

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: julianb on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:12 GMT (UK)
Annie

On the left of the square at the back is the post office.

Sorry!  That wasn't to let!
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:15 GMT (UK)
Annie Sorry not the one, quite a inferior building and still there.  I dont think this building is there any more.

Like the idea of the Midland hotel on the map but the one in the photo has too many floors

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:20 GMT (UK)


here's another map .... or is it the same one ??  ::)

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01at/

I was looking at the roof over the store on the corner ..........  ::)

I know what you're thinkin' Julian !!  :-\


Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: julianb on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:22 GMT (UK)
Annie

Here you are in probably the 1930s http://www.rootschat.com/links/01au/  (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01au/)

I think it was a theatre - light coloured building to  the right after the gap past the Kings Head.

JULIAN
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Ninatoo on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:22 GMT (UK)
Here is a lightened close up of the doorway on the lower left of the building.  You can see there is only one doorway, with a tiny window to the left, and a larger window to the left of that.  I don't know anything about railway hotels....does it still look like this could be a ticket office?

(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b302/ninatoo/doorways.jpg)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:27 GMT (UK)
if someone could find where Charles Buxton was living in 1912 that
may give the name of the hotel.

     Tomkin ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: bearkat on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:28 GMT (UK)
Who's got a Sheffield directory?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:30 GMT (UK)
Hey Paul done a little looking up on that photo.  It is looking down from the direction of Arundle Gate to the Station, down hill, the hotel at the bottom will definately be the Midland Hotel looking from the end of the building.

Too many floors. Hm.....

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:30 GMT (UK)

Tomkin .... if you know ..... give it up !!  :-\ :-\ :-\  ;D ;D ;D

I bet you're going to say - you've painted doors there - aren't you ??

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:31 GMT (UK)
Does anyone else think that the shop on the left might be a WH Smiths?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: julianb on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:35 GMT (UK)


here's another map .... or is it the same one ?? ::)

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01at/


Yes, it's the same map, just zoned on The Wicker (North North East of the City), whereas the current Midland Station and Sheaf Street/Pond Street are in the east of the city
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:36 GMT (UK)


Oh !  ::)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:40 GMT (UK)
directories
 Charles BUXTON Householder-Nelson House, Stannington Road, Liberty Hill, Malin Bridge    Kelly's 1925

Charles F BUXTON  44 Marriott Road, Millhouses White's 1919
Charles F. BUXTON  44 Marriott Road                    Kelly's 1925

Got to go now
Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:46 GMT (UK)
 On the back of the photograph of the hotel is written
   Charles Buxton (family) 1912.

     Can you see the boot scraper at the left hand side of the doorway?

     Tomkin
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Tuesday 27 February 07 22:48 GMT (UK)
P.s.  Two known addresses seem to be Carver St. & Paradise Sq.

    Tomkin
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 27 February 07 23:14 GMT (UK)
I can't help but think that £40 spent using the Access to Information Act to access the 1911 census would be money well spent!   ;D   

The person-hours devoted to this bleedin' photo must have run into the thousands already!

They should lock us all up!  ;D

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 27 February 07 23:19 GMT (UK)


Speak for yourself Mr E !!  ::) ::) ::) ::)

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 27 February 07 23:22 GMT (UK)
I can't help but notice that 'Dawdie', who posted the original thread on the Sheffield Forum, last posted on the thread in October 2006 ... although she posted on other threads in January of this year.

KInd of makes me want to find the place ... then not tell her!  ;D

PS

They threw the key away years ago, Annie!
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 27 February 07 23:37 GMT (UK)
Ninatoo -

I think that 'A' is a passageway into a hall.  If it's a railway station, then it looks like they might be illuminated posters.

But of course, there's a shop on the corner.  Maybe it's an arcade, and they are windows in the back of the shop?

As for 'B' - that looks like a door to me.

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Tuesday 27 February 07 23:49 GMT (UK)


Tomkin .... Paradise Sq. was 20 years earlier wasn't it ??

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Wednesday 28 February 07 00:01 GMT (UK)
 20 years earlier than what? ;D ;D ;D ;D

      Tomkin
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Wednesday 28 February 07 00:06 GMT (UK)

Yes, it's the same map, just zoned on The Wicker (North North East of the City), whereas the current Midland Station and Sheaf Street/Pond Street are in the east of the city

The station near the Wicker is the Victoria station wheras the Midland Station is and always has been on Pond street - I believe it was originally known as the Pond st station.


                                                   Denn
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 28 February 07 00:25 GMT (UK)
20 years earlier than what? ;D ;D ;D ;D

      Tomkin

You're such a pain ........ !!  :D ..... you know what I mean !!  ::)

1891
27 Paradise Street

Buxton Charles Head M M 45 Barman Yorkshire Sheffield
Buxton Margaret Wife M F 45 Lancashire Manchester
Buxton George Harry Son S M 17 Engineer Yorkshire Sheffield
Barratt Arthur Visitor W M 49 Barman Worcestershire Kidderminster
Sykes William Visitor S M 25 Coachman/ ServantYorkshire Sheffield
Bainton Joseph Lodger M M 54 Vocalist London Paddington
Bainton William Lodger S M 18 Vocalist Yorkshire Keighley
Bainton James Lodger S M 16 Vocalist Co. Durham Crook
Wilson John Lodger S M 36 Music Hall Artist Warwickshire Birmingham
Rowe Harry Lodger S M 26 Music Hall Artist Warwickshire Birmingham
Randall William Lodger S M 63 Music Hall Artist London Lambeth

RG12/3814  Folio 18 Page 1

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: broakham on Wednesday 28 February 07 00:28 GMT (UK)
   There were two stations in the Wicker area. The Victoria station (Great Central Railway) was at high level and accessed by stairs and a lift from The Wicker. The other station was Wicker Station and was solely a goods station for the Midland Railway used before they built their passenger line into Sheffield along with the Midland Station, which is on, and always has been on, Sheaf Street.

   Dave
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Dalum on Wednesday 28 February 07 00:55 GMT (UK)
...and Pond Street is the BUS station  :)  known these days as the Interchange

Hugh
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Wednesday 28 February 07 02:25 GMT (UK)
Pond street is now the bus station, however the present midland railway station was previously called Pond street station.

"The station was opened in 1870 by the Midland Railway and was the fifth and last station to be built in Sheffield's city centre. Prior to 1949 the station was called Sheffield Pond Street. The station was built on the "New Line" which ran between Grimesthorpe Junction, on the former Sheffield and Rotherham Railway, and Tapton Junction, just north of Chesterfield.This new line replaced the previous route to London, which ran from Sheffield Wicker Station via Rotherham (Masborough)."

                                                 Denn

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Wednesday 28 February 07 02:39 GMT (UK)
    Whilst researching (that's posh for googling) this, I came across a very interesting site that may be of some help - if not then it's an interesting site anyhow.
     Have a look at "skyscraper city - sheffield metro". The site covers architecture and city development around the world it's a huge site so concentrate on the Sheffield section.
     Does anyone think it worth posting the problem on there.

                                          Denn

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=647
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: drodgers34 on Wednesday 28 February 07 08:53 GMT (UK)
Google earth view of wicker arches area looking north - there are similar buildings and it looks like plenty of buildings would have been demolished for road interchange

As thy said in the 'Full Monty" Sheffield was a city "On the move"

Go to here and follow listed building links to 'wicker arches' mostrly demolished in 1989 apparently

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/download.php?Number=388773&t=k&om=1



I couldn't post the jpg file
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: drodgers34 on Wednesday 28 February 07 09:39 GMT (UK)
Some recent architechture in the arches area

http://geoimages.berkeley.edu/worldwidepanorama/wwp904/html/NickCrossland.html

http://public-art.shu.ac.uk/sheffield/kin43im.html


An older picture her

http://www.gillottfamilyhistory.com/Yorkshire_Ditties.html
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Dalum on Wednesday 28 February 07 10:37 GMT (UK)
I cannot find any other reference to the Midland Station as 'Pond Street Station' (Denn, where does your quote come from?).

In the Sheffield Local Register (a digest of local newspaper stories, up tp 1908) there are many references to this station, always calling it the Midland Station. There was a Pond Street Goods Yard, for 'minerals', listed in White's 1919/20 Directory, but the passenger station was always the other side of Sheaf Street.

Hugh
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: jaywit on Wednesday 28 February 07 11:02 GMT (UK)
Have we had a link to this image? There have been so many I have lost count
http://www.railwayarchive.org.uk/stories/getobjectstory.php?rnum=L1149&enum=LE119&pnum=2&maxp=4
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 28 February 07 11:10 GMT (UK)
I think the station was definately called Midland Station right from the start.

Looking at Pauls map there was Station Road that came straight up from the middle of the station. This is where the trams and buses used to stop, this was the origonal Pond St station as in bus station.  I can find loads of pictures of trams and buses on Station Rd but not the hotel.  Maybe it is because the sunlight would have been behind it.  Taking a reasonable photo facing the sun would probably why photos havnt been saved.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 28 February 07 11:37 GMT (UK)
Just found this on picturesheffield

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s15871

this is looking towards the railway station in the distance. The dark building on the right distance is the Midland Hotel and this confirms the earlier photo looking down the hill.
http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s17707

looks like 4 maybe 5 floors. Nevermind.  Too big. Good try though.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Wednesday 28 February 07 13:06 GMT (UK)
I cannot find any other reference to the Midland Station as 'Pond Street Station' (Denn, where does your quote come from?).

Hugh

Hugh,

     Now you've got me wondering if I am right or not, I am sure that I recall it being called Pond st station, however that quote is from wikepedia and although I have tried I cant find it again, but I shall keep on trying.

    That apart can we look at the pic I have here, could these two buildings be the same. okay there are differences but presuming that over the years it may have been (in fact probably would have been) modified. there are enough similarities for it to be one and the same building.


                                                            Denn
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: drodgers34 on Wednesday 28 February 07 13:11 GMT (UK)
http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/hpl/images/spc252-large.jpg

http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/hpl/images/spc252-large.jpg


Wicker in 1905 - station appears to be through the arch but the part building on the right looks promising


http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/hpl/images/spc130-large.jpg

This suggests the victoria hotel was not the building in question. The hedgerow.co.uk has lots of older sheffield photos - worth a look

Modern plans for the area

http://sccplugins.sheffield.gov.uk/urban_design/quarters_riverside.htm
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Wednesday 28 February 07 13:15 GMT (UK)
http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/hpl/images/spc252-large.jpg

http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/hpl/images/spc252-large.jpg


Wicker in 1905 - station appears to be through the arch but the part building on the right looks promising

That one is the Midland station, the one at the wicker is victoria station.

                                               Denn
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Wednesday 28 February 07 14:35 GMT (UK)
This photo (again) of Midland Station shows no wires for trams and is dated 1910

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s15298

later photos have trams on.  The photo had no tracks or lines which had me worried but this does match up.

Still not giving up.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 28 February 07 16:30 GMT (UK)
I love that shot...all the carriages lined up like taxis, waiting for the next load of passengers... :D  J.J.   :-\  just a bystander now...as I'm off to enjoy more free time on ancestry. keep plugging....J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: julianb on Thursday 01 March 07 20:02 GMT (UK)
I had a quick wander round part of Sheffield City Centre this lunchtime, and the thing that struck me was the distinct flatness of the front of the buildings. 

The photo has a bit set back to the right, and this would have been quite unusual.

Unfortunately, the police box I tried wasn't the right sort to act as a Tardis, so I was unable to go back in time to look - because there's plenty of new buildings which were put up over the rubble of the old.

I have this niggling suspicion that it might not be Sheffield .......

JULIAN
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Thursday 01 March 07 20:13 GMT (UK)
I am inclined to agree Julian.  I have looked at every available picture of Sheffield both old and new and the style just does not fit in. I must say I have abandoned the search ( it was driving me crazy) but I will also add that when I first saw the picture my immediate thought was "it looks like Blackpool"

Joanne
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Thursday 01 March 07 20:22 GMT (UK)
Sometimes those initial, gut feelings are right, Joanne ...

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,43191.0.html

If only we had been so lucky with this mystery hotel.

Like you, I'm trying my best to get it out of my mind ... but this thread keeps resurfacing!

cheers

Paul

PS

Julian - I don't think I need to wander around Sheffield.  Somehow, I think I've come to know it quite intimately already!

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 01 March 07 20:33 GMT (UK)
Lived in Sheffield all my 40 years and even I have seen parts of Sheffield I have never seen before.  I didnt even know that there was a Midland Hotel.  Loved every minute of it but my eyes have taken a battering. Must get the eyes tested, I work with computer screens all day as well. ;)

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Thursday 01 March 07 20:49 GMT (UK)


Well I thought I was weird ........  ::) ::)

I kept thinking Southport or Rhyl !! .................  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Thursday 01 March 07 21:17 GMT (UK)
ok time for some more observations
I was pleased to see the Midland Railway coat of arms did anyone pick up that a white dragon surmounted the shield whilst 2 Sea Horses supported it ?
I had another look at the shield thingy above the door (p9) Sea horse ? a Dragon ? a Nautilus ? and the word above the shield someone suggested 'Tea' to me it looks like L'eau (The water).
So I'm looking further afield than Sheffield again. There were trains which crossed the channel long before the tunnel was dug and some of the railways owned and ran their own passenger liners. Now if the Midland Railway was one of these then the 'Midland Hotel' could have been on the continent. Or at one of the Channel ports.
The shop with all the white objects in the window - could it be a milliner's supplying to the catering industry ? (I was hoping to see a French maid's outfit)

Dave
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 01 March 07 21:24 GMT (UK)
Ok wait until I log out to drop the bombshell.  I shall read that again slowly.

Sue ;D ::)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Thursday 01 March 07 21:39 GMT (UK)
I missed a bit - Are there any places in the UK that use 2 plates for their street names ? and again are there any places in the UK where names are abbreviated ?
The 2nd half of the street name seems to be on it's own plate and is very short perhaps just 3 letters; ok so we have  ____  Way or _____ Top or ____ Row, perhaps one or two more but an abbreviation in Victorian England seems unlikely.
Dave
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Thursday 01 March 07 22:00 GMT (UK)
Sue

Although we looked at the picture of the Midland Hotel in the distance, I don't think we seriously considered it, as it's clearly a grander building that our original photo.

But there seem to be so many 'Midland', 'Station' and other hotels floating about that it's easily possibly that the hotel we're looking for is a smaller one at the back of a station.

Has anyone on the Sheffield Forum ever established why the original poster of the query has not been seen on the thread for weeks / months?  ???

Personally, if I'd posted a query that led to such widespread discussion, I think I'd be chipping in to the debate!

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Thursday 01 March 07 22:27 GMT (UK)
have investigated pub signs etc. and haven't found any yet that are shield shaped; but my own little theory at present is that there is a yorkshire rose with what looks like a rope or curled tail apon it; could the word "tea" (which I own up to not being able to see) possibly say "free" as in Free House?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Thursday 01 March 07 22:31 GMT (UK)
Another thought, In the lightened picture of the doorway on the left and the possible ticket window, the two figures standing in front of it are either children or the ticket counter is very high????
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Thursday 01 March 07 23:16 GMT (UK)
All I know is that before posting this picture I would have isolated and scanned at
very high resolution all the important features such as the road name, coat of arms etc.
    This would of course depend totally on the original resolution of the photograph. To
try and speculate what a group of non descript bunch of pixels means is just a waste of
time.    If you look to the far left I think that I can see another low building which appears to be across the road. i.e a simple 2 storey building with a pitched roof.
        I too was reminded of Blackpool when I saw the hotel because of the basement
 floor. You can just see the top of the windows behind the railings which stop you from
 falling into the basement levels.  This construction was so that daylight would enter the basement rooms. ie. between the railings and the hotel is a one storey drop.
   
         Tomkin AkA tomkin the Pixelated ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Thursday 01 March 07 23:24 GMT (UK)

        I too was reminded of Blackpool when I saw the hotel because of the basement
 floor. You can just see the top of the windows behind the railings which stop you from
 falling into the basement levels.  This construction was so that daylight would enter the basement rooms. ie. between the railings and the hotel is a one storey drop.
   
         Tomkin AkA tomkin the Pixelated ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Okay, so this actually makes it a four rather than three story building. So if at a later date the road was reconstructed we may be looking for photo's of  a four story hotel!!

           Denn - the confusilated
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Thursday 01 March 07 23:27 GMT (UK)
Well spotted that Tomkin!

I don't think anyone's noticed that before.  You'll make a forensic genealogist yet!

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Thursday 01 March 07 23:34 GMT (UK)
OK, OK ... enough's enough!

I've asked Chris Dunham (http://www.genealogue.com/2007/01/still-beating-that-dead-horse.html) to round up his forensic team.  If they can't find this hotel, it never existed!

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Thursday 01 March 07 23:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Denn,
               Even Our council would never drop a road by that amount.
They would knock down the hotel and spend years wondering what to build there.
 I fear that this building was either bombed or suffered with the usual Council
 mentality of " it's old, knock it down  and lets make loads of money for the
developers"  

           Tomkin Aka Tomkin The Cynical
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: broakham on Friday 02 March 07 01:23 GMT (UK)
   Sorry, but I can't agree about the basement. I think that what appears to be window tops is fancy stone or brickwork, partially obscured by a planter or other garden ornament in front of the left hand bay window.
   Every time I look at this photo I see in my mind a modern setting with tables and umbrellas in front of the windows. Is this a vivid imagination or a real but vague memory ?

   Regards - Dave
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: broakham on Friday 02 March 07 01:37 GMT (UK)
   And here is another thought. Just above the street sign could there be an old type telephone line bracket with a cable running down over the street sign ?

   Dave
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Friday 02 March 07 01:52 GMT (UK)
Dave

I didn't see the basement rooms either - at first! 

But I think Tomkin's right - take a look at the complicated arrangement of the iron fencing, as it approaches the doorway to the hotel.   Seems to me like there might be a gate there, leading to steps.

That doesn't mean there isn't a garden area - it's still possible to have a small area raised up between the fence and the basement areas.

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: drodgers34 on Friday 02 March 07 02:45 GMT (UK)


here's another map .... or is it the same one ?? ::)

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01at/


Yes, it's the same map, just zoned on The Wicker (North North East of the City), whereas the current Midland Station and Sheaf Street/Pond Street are in the east of the city

If you look at google maps or similar, there is a whole block which has been demolished east of wicker st, west of the river and south of the arches

Look at the photo

http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/hpl/images/spc273-large.jpg

showing the wicker street much narrower. Notice lettering on the viaduct.

The building you can see part of on the right seems to be the style of the hotel in question

Anyway there are some good old photos of the area in hedgerows archives

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Friday 02 March 07 20:57 GMT (UK)
I'm pleased to say that Chris Dunham has now posted this picture on his Genealogue Blog (http://www.genealogue.com/2007/03/fuzzy-photo-forensics.html).  Let's hope a few new eyes can solve the mystery!

As Chris says (in his inimitable way!)  - "After sixteen pages of posts, they have established with near certainty that it is in fact a photograph."
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Friday 02 March 07 21:57 GMT (UK)
Quote
As Chris says (in his inimitable way!)  - "After sixteen pages of posts, they have established with near certainty that it is in fact a photograph."

Hey!!!! Don't forget...We've also noticed there are several obscure objects
 in the picture ;D ;D ;D ;D :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

( which we've all managed to blow up to a much larger obscurity!)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: hepburn on Friday 02 March 07 22:05 GMT (UK)
Paul E,
          That's so funny,can't put anything across him eh!!

         
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Ninatoo on Friday 02 March 07 22:39 GMT (UK)
Paul E,

That is a great site, thanks for sharing it with us and US with IT!  ;D

Nina
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Friday 02 March 07 23:45 GMT (UK)
Chris's site is one of my all-time favourites - he's drier than a piece of four-week old toast!

Just a shame we haven't tempted our US cousins in to solve this mystery yet!


Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Saturday 03 March 07 00:25 GMT (UK)
Who wrote Harry Mcfly?
Am I a latecomer to this?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Saturday 03 March 07 09:14 GMT (UK)
No, you're not a latecomer, as it's not finished yet, Joanne!

Not sure I can weave a mystery hotel into the storyline, though!

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: lostnconfused on Saturday 03 March 07 10:00 GMT (UK)

I have not read through the entire thread but i noted that the original was from a postcard?

Am i a bit dense or could someone check the postmark etc for clues?

Lostnconfused
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Saturday 03 March 07 11:12 GMT (UK)

I have not read through the entire thread but i noted that the original was from a postcard?

Am i a bit dense or could someone check the postmark etc for clues?

Lostnconfused

Not a postcard, but a postcard sized photo'. I wish it was a postcard though - it would surely be easier to trace.

                                        Denn
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Saturday 03 March 07 20:44 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately, all it said on it was written in the first query
Charles Buxton Sheffield.
Annie found a census reference to a man by that name, as a barman, and if I recall most listed within were associated with entertaining or serving...

We found that "The Marples" was destroyed by the bombing...& other establishments Inns/Pub were The Westminster, Royal Oak, Devonshire Arms, The shades vaults, The King's Head, 3 Horse Shoes, The Angel...."The George  and Dragon" (Bodega) 
 
We have found some photos and seems these aren't they...We'll need old eyes to help with that, then...otherwise, seems most on here have tackled what we can find online as far as Hotels go...

The name and location may have only been written as a reference for someone, and so may be a red herring...It would be nice to find it after all the work involved...Ah, well.....
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Monday 05 March 07 16:41 GMT (UK)


I don't know if anybody can get anything from this ........ I couldn't .... but you guys are smart !!  ;D not "our boy " but you never know .... could be related !!

Buxton Harry sheffield 37 20th June
Buxton E. Mrs. Sheffield Prize Winners 04-Dec

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~engsheffield/g_piper/ind.htm

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Monday 05 March 07 18:17 GMT (UK)
hmmm...Perhaps for making a hotel disappear in 1911?  ::)

  ( Ooops, I owed you one)  :-*  J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Mair on Tuesday 06 March 07 18:48 GMT (UK)
thought I would stick in my two penneth

I'm with JJ on this one -a disappearing hotel is one option not to be dismissed!

Why.......it is not a building listed with English Heritage in Sheffield - there are quite a few others that are though! ;D (roughly 900 and I know the lot of 'em now!)

Jude
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Tuesday 06 March 07 21:36 GMT (UK)
Still looking in the Sheffield area.  Old street was hit by a bomb on my map in 1944 it could have taken the hotel out then.  Looking on a new map in the same area there is Crown Place only a few roads away. Hm. Still in Shefffield???? ;D

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: possum_pie on Tuesday 06 March 07 23:58 GMT (UK)
Have you considered sending it to a Sheffield local paper???  Surely some local historian would be able to help you!
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carnation on Wednesday 21 March 07 14:35 GMT (UK)
 ;DHi Everyone,
I am the owner of the original photograph you have all been discussing!
I didn't know it was on here until yesterday.
I can tell you it is a postcard with the name Charles Buxton Sheffield stamped in (a circular stamp) several times on the reverse. Buxton is my Grandmother's maiden name which is how I came to have the photograph. She was born in 1918 and had an elder brother Charles born 1900. Her Grandfather and Great Grandfather were also named Charles Buxton. My Gran's brother Charles was a keen photographer and won a prize in a Sheffield Newspaper for a photograph of my Gran buying an icecream at the age of 7 which would've been 1925 ish.
The Charles Buxton who was a barman in the census was my Gran's Granfather. I've been told that the people on the photograph were a wedding party, don't know if thats true or not. I have another photograph of 3 people outside what looks like the same building but its so close up, I don't know if it would help.
My Aunt told me that someone in the family ran a big hotel in Sheffield. If it came from my Gran's maternal side the name was Fairhurst.
I've attached the other photo which is also a postcard and on the back is printed ; Photo by E. Freeman, 456 Cleethorpes Rd Grimsby.
Hope this helps,
Lisa
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 15:13 GMT (UK)
How wonderful, Lisa  :D....Welcome to rootschat!
 If you have read the thread through, you'll see that we have exhausted any matching of online photos we can think of...and so need to narrow it down by
perhaps a street address, or something...Could someone be so kind as to take
a high res scan of the original hotel postcard? As we can see there are clues
but too pixellated. Thanks for joining in...we really want to solve this!
Persistant bunch...

Look at the leaded glasswork in the windows...!
 ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carnation on Wednesday 21 March 07 15:17 GMT (UK)
Hi, try this!
The original is really hazy, the lamp above the door definately says railway hotel though!
Lisa
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 15:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Lisa...would it be possible to just select to scan individual areas on the
postcard... using more d.p.i and then choose 3/400% for the output? Plus
there's no recovery settings, or sharpen or focus more? Just checking, as
every little bit of detail helps... J.J.

( p.s. likely is a wedding as she is holding what may be a bouquet or nosegay,
and he has a bouteneir)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 15:59 GMT (UK)
O.k. back on the case...  under (104)
http://mick-armitage.staff.shef.ac.uk/sheffield/book/w-page21.html

Have we checked out The Manchester Railway Hotel ? It doesn't sound
 like a name I'd recognised but then?... :P :P :P     J.J.

( oh, say, when we're done here, there's dozens of bulidings needing to
be recognized on this photo site...)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/southyorkshire/sense_of_place/picture_sheffield/index.shtml
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carnation on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:16 GMT (UK)
Hi, It could be Manchester Railway hotel, I really can't say. I'll get my son to help me with a better scan later and we'll chop it up and enlarge it if we can.
I can zoom in on my pc and above the older Gent there is a sign in the window, it could says 'Wards' obviously the ale. On the street address I would say the second word looks like 'Place'.
It won't help but there seems to be a man in a top hat looking out of the window directly above the door!
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:23 GMT (UK)
Great to see you've joined in the discussion, Lisa - sorry if I seemed a bit miffed at your absence in earlier postings, but as you can see, an awful lot of hours have been spent dissecting this picture!

(It's taken me weeks to get it out of my head!)

Let's hope one last push and the additional information you've provided ont he Buxton's helps.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:28 GMT (UK)


Oh Lordy ! ..... here we go again .......  ::)

Just as I was trying to do something entirely different !!

Annie  :P
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carnation on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:30 GMT (UK)
Sorry about this folks!
I've been trying to find out where it is for months not even knowing it was on here!

   Lisa
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:33 GMT (UK)
Haha, know what you mean...it's rather all-consuming... ( or brain consuméeing )
 ;D ;D ;D ;D


Lisa...Can you read the hanging sign? I'm afraid all is still too pixelated
for my bad eyes... The trouible with jpgs is that it distorts any and 
all detail around objects.....
 If it isn't too much trouble, could you ask him to make sure there is
no extra compression added to the larger cropped scans? Jpgs already
add a compression, as I say...(If it can be done...)

 :D ;) J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:39 GMT (UK)
nevermind, I remember now...doesn't look like a railway, hotel to me, tho, now does it/

Oh, do we need to reread the whole thing to recap  :P :P :P
I think I'm going to be ill...
http://www.sheffieldpubs.fsnet.co.uk/Business/pubs/manchesterarms.htm
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Lisa,

Welcome.

I still think its a fleur de lys or Prince of Wales feathers in the stone work on the part of the building that juts out.

Is the lady definitely holding a bouquet? Could it not be a little dog like Lisa showed in the other, close up pic?

Michelle x

Can't believe the threads been started up again ( I was dreaming about it before, I showed everyone that visited here LOL)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:44 GMT (UK)
Old Rootschat threads never die, Michelle - they just come back to haunt us!

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:49 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul

I think you could've just started a new thread for "The Lighter Side"

Old Roots threads never die they simply ...?????

Answers on a postcard lol. (but not one with unknown buildings on ???)

Michelle  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:51 GMT (UK)
Michelle...Oh, I think you could be right...it may just be a pup...
please don't make me enlarge it and muck about...it's a dog...
I held one at my own wedding...very stylish...
 ::)   :P J.J.

"Old Roots threads never die they simply haunt you nightly..."

ahhhhh, my inbox is full of notifications again..."Mystery hotel?? ??"




Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carnation on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:54 GMT (UK)
Hi, There looks to be 3 dogs in the photo, the man and woman look like they are holding dogs and there's one that appears to be on its hind legs or hovering or something.
I can't read the hanging sign, its too fuzzy, also i agree it looks like a fleur de lys on the stone work.
Lisa
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:56 GMT (UK)
Yeah, we found a fleur-de-lis- hotel, too, didn't we? but it was a
little thing, too...Could someone send those dogs to fetch the street sign closer, then? ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 March 07 16:58 GMT (UK)
Buxton is my Grandmother's maiden name which is how I came to have the photograph. She was born in 1918 and had an elder brother Charles born 1900. Her Grandfather and Great Grandfather were also named Charles Buxton. My Gran's brother Charles was a keen photographer and won a prize in a Sheffield Newspaper for a photograph of my Gran buying an icecream at the age of 7 which would've been 1925 ish.
The Charles Buxton who was a barman in the census was my Gran's Granfather.
...

My Aunt told me that someone in the family ran a big hotel in Sheffield. If it came from my Gran's maternal side the name was Fairhurst.
I've attached the other photo which is also a postcard and on the back is printed ; Photo by E. Freeman, 456 Cleethorpes Rd Grimsby.
Hope this helps,
Lisa


Seems odd for a Grimsby photographer to be plying their trade in Sheffield, you would think.  Maybe we should look to Grimsby for this hotel?

I think it isalmost certainly the same doorway in the second photograph, Lisa.  And you can also see a glimpse of the lower level window, suggesting a basement level for the hotel.

I can find three Charles Buxton's on the 1901 census showing as being born 1900: one is in Stoke Newington, one is the son of a Stone Waller's labourer, living in Nether Hallam, Sheffield, and the last one is the son of a Gas Stoker living in Brightside Bierlow.

Nothing very conclusive from that, I fear. ???

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carnation on Wednesday 21 March 07 17:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul, The son of the stone wallers labourer is my Nans brother.

The dog thing makes it likely to be the same one aswell.
Maybe it was just the developer for the photo that was in Grimsby?

Lisa
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 March 07 17:03 GMT (UK)
You might be right, but why go all the way to Grimsby to get a photo organised?

This hotel here (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.latemeetings.com/images/Venue/oaklands-hotel-exterior.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.latemeetings.com/united-kingdom/east-midlands/lincolnshire/grimsby/oaklands-country-house-hotel/&h=450&w=600&sz=110&hl=en&sig2=VOvlggp_-Ynh3rx6ZgMA0Q&start=35&tbnid=IebOf1xQuQkJwM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=135&ei=aGQBRtOYKZO-0wTTlajhDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgrimsby%2Bhotels%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN) isn't our mystery one, but the style does look very reminiscent, doesn't it?

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 17:05 GMT (UK)
I had a quick look for "Fairhurst + Sheffield + hotel " in a Google search, but I didn't come up with much. Has anyone else had a scout around for Hoteliers named Fairhurst? I'm not very good at finding info when I want to I usually stumble on it when I don't.

"Old Roots threads never die 'cos the...the truth is out there?

Michelle  :-\
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 17:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul

I did find some Fairhurst's living in Brightside, when I did my search.

Mich x
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carnation on Wednesday 21 March 07 17:09 GMT (UK)
Hi, yes the building is similar isn't it?
I know the Fairhursts came from Barnsley and before that wigan so I tend to think with Charles Buxton (b1845) being a barman it would be more to do with them.
Lisa
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 17:37 GMT (UK)
I found a hotel building in a town near Sheffield, it had the very
same caps on the bay windows, but that was the only similarity...
also hubby said not close otherwise...but....Could kick myself for
not posting it, as it may still have been the right place... ::)  ::)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 21 March 07 17:41 GMT (UK)


Well I've been on a pub crawl in Wigan ! .................... just in case Paul E is interested !!

I couldn't see - a pub - I did find this snippet .... but can't find a photo !!  ::) ::) ::)

Fairhurst, Joseph E.

Springfield Hotel, Springfield Road, Wigan

http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/stuff/pubs4.php?opt=pubs

Annie  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 21 March 07 17:47 GMT (UK)

ooooh ! ... I found a picture .... but now I can't remember the original !!  :-\ :-\ :-\

http://www.pub-explorer.com/lancs/pub/springfieldhotelwigan.htm

Annie

Close ..........  but no cigar I think !!  :-\
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 17:53 GMT (UK)
The Springfield Hotel Wigan.

Mich  ;)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 17:53 GMT (UK)
Whoops forgot the link

http://www.pub-explorer.com/lancs/photos/springfieldwigan.gif
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 17:54 GMT (UK)
I'm hopeless Annie's already put it up.

M  :-\
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carnation on Wednesday 21 March 07 18:18 GMT (UK)
 ;DI've attached seperate scans of my photo. My son tells me this is the best my scanner can do.
The street name looks like ------- place, I think I can see a W near the end of the first word.
 

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carnation on Wednesday 21 March 07 18:20 GMT (UK)
and this is the best I can do for the hanging sign, Can't read this at all!
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carnation on Wednesday 21 March 07 18:22 GMT (UK)
by the way, I thought it looked like a jewellers shop below the street name???
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: hepburn on Wednesday 21 March 07 18:36 GMT (UK)
It looks like a Ram's horn!!sorry if this has been put forward before..
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 March 07 18:37 GMT (UK)
Any idea if this is a sign in the window behind the old chap?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carnation on Wednesday 21 March 07 18:38 GMT (UK)
I thought it said Wards?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: hepburn on Wednesday 21 March 07 18:46 GMT (UK)
I'm here again..The lamp above the door defitnitley say's Railway hotel!!
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: jaywit on Wednesday 21 March 07 18:58 GMT (UK)
I thought the sign in the window could say India Pale Ale
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 19:39 GMT (UK)
Well done Jaywit,

I think you're right, I was trying to work out what word could end in "A". Still no nearer to the hotel name though! Doh :-[

Michelle :D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 19:45 GMT (UK)
Was there ever a Wicker Place in Sheffield? Just a thought on the street sign.

There is a Station Hotel on The Wicker, it's not the one we're looking for, but could it have been built in the place of one destroyed in WW2?

http://www.sheffieldpubs.fsnet.co.uk/more%20pictures/station.jpg

Michelle
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 19:49 GMT (UK)
Here's another one of the Wicker, I think we've seen it before or had links to "hedgerow" etc, but there's the Great Central Bridge, the clothes are in Keeping and I can just imagine the Mystery Hotel being there on the right just out of shot.

http://www.hedgerow.co.uk/hpl/images/spc273-large.jpg

Michelle  ???
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: stockman fred on Wednesday 21 March 07 19:57 GMT (UK)
Is it my dodgy eyesight, or is there something written on the wall on the left- come past the shop window, past the  door and big window (modified :-[) and round the corner and I thought I could see a message chalked up on the brickwork (on the better new scan) ???
Fred :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 20:05 GMT (UK)
Just gone back to look at the sign in the window and it seems to say something like "_ _ _ RA  VALE _ _ _ " Ring any bells with anyone?

Michelle  ::)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 20:12 GMT (UK)
....RA
Vat
Ale

I think?...Not that it helps...
I was hoping it said wards as apparently there was a "wards" insignia"  whatever that may be
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 21 March 07 20:14 GMT (UK)
I'm here again..The lamp above the door defitnitley say's Railway hotel!!

I'm with Oonagh!  Definitely says "RAILWAY HOTEL"
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 21 March 07 20:16 GMT (UK)
It looks like a Ram's horn!!sorry if this has been put forward before..

...with Oonagh on this as well!  ;D

I can't read the street name at all, but there does look to be a C in the middle of the first word.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: jaywit on Wednesday 21 March 07 20:17 GMT (UK)
Wards logo was a wheatsheaf.http://www.dmbc.co.uk/wards_bitter/
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: julianb on Wednesday 21 March 07 20:20 GMT (UK)
Wards logo was a wheatsheaf.http://www.dmbc.co.uk/wards_bitter/

Most definitely. I walk past the old brewery every day!

I thought it was India Pale Ale, or are we looking at something else?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: indiapaleale on Wednesday 21 March 07 20:28 GMT (UK)
AND....It was moi....India Pale Ale who first said that it was a Railway Hotel  !!!

SO...what do you think of them apples!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 20:33 GMT (UK)
You are good, Indi.!..and Paul first focussed in on the word Hotel...!
It does say Railway hotel...we are looking behind the older fellow's head, in the window...Not that it helps unless one can find a vender's list from the era? ;D

_IARA?
VAT
ALE
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 20:34 GMT (UK)
Yeah, well done IPA.

 :-*
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 20:55 GMT (UK)
Can't seem to get anymore than the word place to focus in, but then maybe your eyes can see something in the first part...
 :P
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 20:57 GMT (UK)
Someone had a list of street names from the era...
anything look like the !$#@*&#* PLACE in the above (er previous) image?

 ;D J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 21 March 07 21:09 GMT (UK)
AND....It was moi....India Pale Ale who first said that it was a Railway Hotel  !!!

SO...what do you think of them apples!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

I think they should name a beer after you...! ;D I'll drink to that! J.J.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Wednesday 21 March 07 21:29 GMT (UK)
Page 1 second reply

Quote
The hotel reminds me of the old 'station' hotels which were situated near the railway stations in most of the major northern towns. There is one next to the station in York that looked very much like yours

I think that qualifies
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 March 07 21:31 GMT (UK)
Isn't it amazing how you can read someone's RC name and get it totally wrong!

I always thought you were indiapaleale  - I just never read it as India Pale Ale!   ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: indiapaleale on Wednesday 21 March 07 21:41 GMT (UK)
Page 1 second reply

Quote
The hotel reminds me of the old 'station' hotels which were situated near the railway stations in most of the major northern towns. There is one next to the station in York that looked very much like yours

I think that qualifies

OK Dave....I concede

However......I have never heard of a beer called Dave the Tyke!

 :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Wednesday 21 March 07 21:49 GMT (UK)
That's because I supped it all
 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: hepburn on Wednesday 21 March 07 21:54 GMT (UK)
Could the sign say"Extra"
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Wednesday 21 March 07 21:57 GMT (UK)
Going back to the street sign -
can anyone see GAS WAY PLACE ? and is / was there a Sheffield street of that, or a similar name ?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 March 07 22:42 GMT (UK)
I started looking for Sheffield 'Places' ... got bored after half an hour.  Here are the one's I found courtesy of a useful page on the Sheffield Genealogy site before I got bored - all from c1980, so some may be modern.

(The number afterwards is the postal district - so I'm presuming the smaller the number, the nearer the centre):

Basegreen Pl. 12
Bassett P1. 2
Batemoor Pl. 8
Beldon Pl. 2
Bents Green Pl. 11
Bignor Pl. 6
Bingham Pl. 8
Birch Pl. 9
Birchitt Pl.17
Boden Pl. 9
Brooklyn Pl. 8
Burngrove Pl. 3
Callow Pl. 2
Carfield Pl. 8
Carr Forge Pl. 12
Chippingham Pl. 9
ChorleyPl. 10
Claremont Pl. 10
Clinton Pl. 10
Cobden Pl. 10
Cockayna Pl.8
Colby Pl. 6
Coleridge Pl. 9
Coombe Pl. 10
Corwen PI. 13
Cotleigh Pl. 12
Cox Pl.6
Crabtree Pl. 5
Crabtree Rd. 5
Cranworth Pl. 3
Crossiand Pl. 12
Crown Pl. 2
Crowther Pl. 7
Dagnam Pl. 2
Daresbury Pl. 2
Deer Park Pl. 6
Delves Pl. 12
Derby Pl. 2
Duke Pl. 2
Dunella Pl. 6
Dyche Pl. 8
Dyke Vale Pl. 12
Dykes Hall Pl. 6
Dyson Pl. 11
East Bank Pl. 2
East Glade Pl.12
Eaton Pl. 2
Ebenezer Pl. 3

I'm Placed Out, Man - must be the drugs!

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Wednesday 21 March 07 23:00 GMT (UK)
 ::) :o ::) ::) :o ;D :D :-\ :-\ :-\


Arrrrghhhh!

Frustrating isn't it?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: liverpool annie on Wednesday 21 March 07 23:38 GMT (UK)
Isn't it amazing how you can read someone's RC name and get it totally wrong!

I always thought you were indiapaleale  - I just never read it as India Pale Ale!   ;D ;D ;D ;D

How long have you been feeling this way Paul ??

Have another G & T Lad !!

Though I have to admit ... I always thought Wendi's avatar was a rabbit !!  ::) ::) ::)

We must have "old timers" or something !!  ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 21 March 07 23:47 GMT (UK)
You're right, Annie!  I think another G&T might just sort me out!  I thought I'd forgotten Sheffield - but it never goes away!
As for indiapaleale, I just kept thinking 'indianappolis' for some reason!
cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: indiapaleale on Thursday 22 March 07 00:48 GMT (UK)
Grrrr......

What am I going to do with you lot????


Paul.......I guess you never read my reply on the thread "How did you get your Rootchat name." Otherwise, you would know that India Pale Ale was my Dad's pet name for me.....most Dads have sweet pet names for their daughters......mine was a boozer! :P :P :P

Annie....Wendi's avatar is a fabulous kitty kat.....get yer eyes tested!..and have another G & T  ;D ;D

Now....back to this building.......I'm beginning to think it aren't in Sheffield!

I think we have to look further afield......I'll have a drink while I think about this!

 ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Thursday 22 March 07 00:49 GMT (UK)
I think the Grimsby photographer might be a giveaway, indianappolis (sorry!) indiapaleale!
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 22 March 07 01:54 GMT (UK)
Yes, I do agree, that we'll likely need to look elsewhere...as our young Buxton photographer was propably just stamping all his postcards as a bit of advertising for himself. I had initially thought his name was written on the back...


I have to admit Paul that I used to just run the whole indiapaleale  together and say it in my headlike it was a whole name...It didn't click for months! Not to mention, I thought she was a fellow...but then most people think I am also... ::)  ;D  J.J.

ich... wait a minute...reading back, the photographer was too recent  to have taken this  :P  :P  :P  :P  :P  :P  :P   :P  :P  :P
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Thursday 22 March 07 08:19 GMT (UK)
From my rapidly failing memory,
There was a rellie named Buxton living Sheffield 1901 census. A relative of his may have lived in Grimsby and taken the photo whilst on holiday. I take most of my photos whilst on holiday so don't get sidetracked to Grimsby. I must confess that before we knew the Grimsby connection I favoured places other than Sheffield for the same reason.

 8)  :D   (on Hols) Dave
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Carnation on Thursday 22 March 07 14:11 GMT (UK)
Hi, this is the back of 'The Mystery Hotel'
Lisa
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 22 March 07 14:40 GMT (UK)
Oh, dear, chances are he was only using it for an ink-blotter to clean his stamp!! ;D  ::) :P... J.J.

funny, as I've missed notifications on so many of my postings, but I get
umpteen dozens on this one... ;)  :-\ ( trust me, I do want to solve it,
but at the same time...am tempted to turn off notification  ;)) 

ahhh, but then it has been pointed out that we have indeed confirmed
that it is, beyond a doubt, a photograph!....with several stamps on back.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: broakham on Thursday 22 March 07 15:27 GMT (UK)
   Could the street be Railway Place? The 1919 Kellys Directory has a Railway Hotel on Cleethorpe Road, Grimsby, and the modern Multimap shows Cleethorpe Road and Railway Place as adjacent. Could the photo be of a side/rear entrance?
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: jaywit on Thursday 22 March 07 15:36 GMT (UK)
I have been looking at Grimsby/Cleethorpes and I found, but no photo, a Darleys Hotel which sold Wards beer, and it said next to the Town Hall, now the Town Hall does have a similar style of architecture.http://www.cleethorpesuk.com/index.cfm?id=569&image=70&type=Local%20Images I think we need a Grimsby expert now.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: bearkat on Thursday 22 March 07 18:34 GMT (UK)
There are several old photographs of Grimsby on the Francis Frith site:

http://www.francisfrith.com/
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 22 March 07 20:23 GMT (UK)
East Bank Place looked good to me, Paul, but I can't find a hotel
there...I can't even find THERE!!!   J.J.

Insert screaming icon tearing hair out, here...
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Mair on Thursday 22 March 07 22:39 GMT (UK)
I went off trawling through pictures found this if of interest:-

Marples Hotel before the bombs hit

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s02039

...and after....

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/picturesheffield.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.refno=s02102

How on earth anyone got out of there........

Sorry no matches to our little puzzle - some near misses though.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Friday 23 March 07 01:30 GMT (UK)
I didn't add this the first time around, but I suppose it's a diversion from the
searching...and we can think some good thoughts for those who were affected
by the tragedy...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A5559573#footnote1
http://www.chrishobbs.com/marples1940.htm
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Friday 23 March 07 22:42 GMT (UK)
I noticed, the Marples Hotel bombing link also shows an "Ada Buxton" listed amongst the dead.

Spooky!

Joanne
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Saturday 24 March 07 19:43 GMT (UK)
Woh....... Havnt been on for a few days. You have been busy. ;D

Right for starters nice sharp image.  Two possables for the lamp, Railway Hotel or wait for it , try this one Galway Hotel.  One of you said the sign looked like Gas way Place.

What do you think??????

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Saturday 24 March 07 20:10 GMT (UK)
eeek, I almost flipped when i found this one...as I'd tried to memorize the
bay windows either side of the door and the rounded top on the centre window...but it's only 2 stories ::) ::) ::)

This is what i am wondering, though, if it has been remodelled such as this one has, with new window glass, paint on the brick...will we recognize it?
 :P :P :P :P
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Saturday 24 March 07 23:02 GMT (UK)
JJ looking at your earlier post about the Manchester Railway hotel on Nursery St the date of it being washed away would have been too early see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgehouses_railway_station
Sheffield flood was 1864, unless the photo was earlier.
http://mick-armitage.staff.shef.ac.uk/sheffield/photogal/picaftr1.html

Re building has got to be considered though.
Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Sunday 25 March 07 00:31 GMT (UK)
yes, I'd seen the date, I just hadn't found a photo, ( It was the Railway hotel part that interested me) but then when I finally did I realized I'd already looked at it in another life ::) :P :-\ J.J.


Maybe I'm being bad, folks...
but peek into this posting if you have time......
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,222810.0.html
( don't post an opinion, anywhere, though, whatever you do!)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Sunday 25 March 07 12:20 BST (UK)
Dear JJ

I wanted to put my point forward but been there before and deleted.  I once put forward my opinion on 'the Great War Forum' about Harry Farr being shot at dawn and it lasted about half an hour before it was deleted.  Therefore I dont go back there very often.

I see your point.  Museums should not put forward an opinion just information.  Just as we are moderated so should they be.

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Tuesday 27 March 07 22:20 BST (UK)
There's so much to read on this link now that I may be repeating a suggestion that someone's already out forward, so I'll apologise in advance in case I'm repeating a posting. I have been keeping up with this thread to a degree, so here goes.

I've spoken to a friend of my dad's who knows Sheffield well, but more importantly he's a Railway Historian. This is his suggestion for what its worth:

The first Station in Sheffield was at Bridgehouses.  The main street adjoining the Station was The Wicker.  This building could be in that street.

Hope it helps in some way.

Michelle  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 28 March 07 04:42 BST (UK)
Found these as all closed stations in Sheffield ...not sure if they were all small town ones absorbed by the city...
 Attercliffe -Attercliffe Road - Beauchief - Beighton -Bridgehouses-Brightside-Broughton Lane - Chapeltown - Chapeltown Central- Deepcar - Ecclesfield -Ecclesfield West -Grange Lane-Grimesthorpe Bridge - Heeley - Millhouses - Meadowhall - Wincobank (and Meadow Hall) - Neepsend -Oughtibridge - Tinsley - Tinsley West -Victoria - Wadsley Bridge - Wicker
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: drodgers34 on Wednesday 28 March 07 04:46 BST (UK)
Dear JJ

I wanted to put my point forward but been there before and deleted.  I once put forward my opinion on 'the Great War Forum' about Harry Farr being shot at dawn and it lasted about half an hour before it was deleted.  Therefore I dont go back there very often.

I see your point.  Museums should not put forward an opinion just information.  Just as we are moderated so should they be.

Sue

For all the snobbery of 'real historians' over family historians (at least we read about it), the family kind seem to be a lot more open minded without political points to prove.

Now on topic the photos I found about the wicker showed a thriving community of its own, Google earth today shows a roadway and a hardware barn...
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Wednesday 28 March 07 22:50 BST (UK)
family historian.....real historian?  Surely if you delve deeply enough into the past lives of your new found ancesters you can't help but notice the political reasons of why they were living their lives in the way they did. With scant education and certainly no media as we know it how could they have known any different? They must surely have been the good old days when the toss of a crust from a benevolent aristocrat was deemed an honour.
Modern History studies are now more concerned with Historical truths and many good Historians have always advocated truthful recounts of actual events. Unfortunately these writings rarely reach the eyes of the public at large and are usually only read by those wishing to study the subject thoroughly.
As for why these views are not routinely taught in schools...ask the politicians.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Wednesday 28 March 07 23:12 BST (UK)
AND....It was moi....India Pale Ale who first said that it was a Railway Hotel  !!!

SO...what do you think of them apples!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Actually it was "Dave the Tyke" who first associated the pic with a railway hotel on this thread, and "Fareast" on the Sheffield thread.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: indiapaleale on Wednesday 28 March 07 23:25 BST (UK)
Yes....keep reading... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: drodgers34 on Thursday 29 March 07 06:18 BST (UK)
family historian.....real historian?  Surely if you delve deeply enough into the past lives of your new found ancesters you can't help but notice the political reasons of why they were living their lives in the way they did. With scant education and certainly no media as we know it how could they have known any different? They must surely have been the good old days when the toss of a crust from a benevolent aristocrat was deemed an honour.
Modern History studies are now more concerned with Historical truths and many good Historians have always advocated truthful recounts of actual events. Unfortunately these writings rarely reach the eyes of the public at large and are usually only read by those wishing to study the subject thoroughly.
As for why these views are not routinely taught in schools...ask the politicians.

I am in australia now but I reckon my ancestors who lived in the highest parts of the pennines ahd a few things going for them. Once they got past childhood their lives seem long enough - 60 70 and 80 quite common.
When I look at property prices now those farmhouse locations are really sought after by 'town folk' ans some of the more genteel areas of such as huddersfield are now among the more affordable. its almost like a swap has occurred over 150 years
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 29 March 07 22:19 BST (UK)
spotted this googlin, look on the left looks like the Railway Hotel Wicker you need to click on Sheffield Victoria station, 1930

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Friday 27 April 07 23:02 BST (UK)
Thought I'd give this thread a bump up - take our mind off 'other things'!  ;)

Anyone made any advances?

cheers

Paul

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Friday 27 April 07 23:18 BST (UK)
never left my mind. But no! nothing

                             Denn
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Friday 27 April 07 23:19 BST (UK)
    No,

             Tomkin
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Friday 27 April 07 23:32 BST (UK)

(Why do I KNOW you're just going to HATE me for bumping this thread?)  ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Friday 27 April 07 23:46 BST (UK)

(Why do I KNOW you're just going to HATE me for bumping this thread?)  ;D

Yes - still
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Saturday 28 April 07 00:21 BST (UK)
    I once stayed in a hotel.

               Tomkin
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Saturday 28 April 07 01:15 BST (UK)
Personally, I think bumping a thread of this nature should be grounds for expulsion from RC!

Oh, all those sleepless nights ahead...

Tomkin - stop your bragging!  So did I.  Before that, I never knew what a 'Full English' was...  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Saturday 28 April 07 01:28 BST (UK)
 I wasn't bragging. I was just stating a fact which I thought might be
    of immense interest to every body else.  Especially those who might
    not have stayed in a hotel.  Of course I have not stayed in a hotel
    in 1912 which probably would have been of even greater interest.
 
          It just shows you though that we have already established a common link.
       Perhaps we can compare notes on our hotel experiences.
     On second thought I can't remember anything of interest happening,

           Oh well!

                         Tomkin
   
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Saturday 28 April 07 01:53 BST (UK)
Well, I remember being impressed by a machine that cleaned your shoes.  Is that any good?

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Saturday 28 April 07 01:58 BST (UK)
 Not really. I had one. It was called a wife.
       Strange thing.

               I once lived in a tent for a week. In the Lake district.

                      I was in the Scouts.

                            Never again.

              Tomkin
     
                             
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dennford on Saturday 28 April 07 02:21 BST (UK)
This is getting to sound like M.P's three yorkshiremen - or two Yorkshiremen and a Geordie
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Saturday 28 April 07 12:29 BST (UK)
Thanks Paul E for bumping the thread. I was going to do it but I thought everyone had lost interest. 

Still dont know where it is. Sorry.

New site just started may be of interest to Sheffield History followers
www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/ (http://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/forums/)
thought is was well worth a posting

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Mair on Saturday 28 April 07 22:34 BST (UK)
Paul,  Tomkin -

how about working in hotel - does it count for "bragging" purposes????

Meanwhile back at the investigation absolutely nothing ........nada........nowt!

,...........and thats with insider knowledge of the trade  ......sssshhhhhh


Jude

PS that photo though is haunting me - every old town-like photo I see now I have a double take - just in case
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Saturday 28 April 07 23:19 BST (UK)
Quote
how about working in hotel - does it count for "bragging" purposes?

    Errr........        No.....       Unless you can tell us some spicy
                     stories. ( unless of course it's about me and then please
                        keep your lip buttoned because I'll sue you for every penny
                            that you may or may not have) ;D ;D ;D

                  I once stayed in a Caravan for a week,   Cornwall.

                                Never again.
         Tomkin
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Saturday 28 April 07 23:25 BST (UK)
Tomkin: keep away from tents (fire risk) and caravans (boredom risk) and stick with the strange hotels.  Even with a wife -

never again.  ;D

P
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Saturday 28 April 07 23:48 BST (UK)
Quote
Even with a wife

       Thats what got me into trouble before. wasn't mine.

                  Tomkin ::) ::) ::) ::)



     P.S. ONLY JOKING!!!!!
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Monday 30 April 07 18:16 BST (UK)
Havent found the Hotel but I found this railway station rather interesting.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Monday 30 April 07 18:30 BST (UK)
Jacobean in style apparently.  :)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: jaywit on Monday 30 April 07 18:49 BST (UK)
According to this Louth was on the line to Grimsby http://www.lincolnshirewoldsrailway.co.uk/history.html   
Now haven't we mentioned Grimsby somewhere along the line? (excuse the pun). Could be the same architect and the same railway company?


Moderator Comment: URL edited to act as link
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Wednesday 02 May 07 23:06 BST (UK)
Also found this
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Wednesday 02 May 07 23:10 BST (UK)
and it has a matching raiway station
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Wednesday 02 May 07 23:12 BST (UK)
Haven't been able to find anything on the designer "H A Hunt" though.
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Paul E on Wednesday 02 May 07 23:49 BST (UK)
Oooh - Joanne - that's not a bad match, is it?  Very similar in style and shape.  What a brilliant find!

Paul
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Friday 04 May 07 00:32 BST (UK)
If we could find some info on H.A. Hunt and his designs we could be in with a chance..........
maybe   :-\
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: tomkin on Friday 04 May 07 01:29 BST (UK)
 Another variation of the Jacobean/Dutch style used by
        the Victorians in their Railway stations.

      Tomkin
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: jaywit on Friday 04 May 07 19:48 BST (UK)
H A Hunt, railway architect, I have found this  long URL to search.staffspastrak.org.uk  (http://www.search.staffspasttrack.org.uk/engine/resource/default.asp?theme=313&originator=%2Fengine%2Ftheme%2Fdefault%2Easp&page=&records=&direction=&pointer=29&text=0&resource=16070) Now to see what Stoke railway station looks like.



Moderator Comment: URL modified, as it was 'stretching' the screen
See tips here, to avoid this:
 Topic: Shrinking Very Long Website Links  (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,134417.0.html) /  Topic: Post too W--I--D--E!  (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,111822.0.html)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: jaywit on Friday 04 May 07 19:51 BST (UK)
Wiki have got this.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoke-on-Trent_railway_station
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: millymcb on Friday 04 May 07 20:31 BST (UK)
If we could find some info on H.A. Hunt and his designs we could be in with a chance..........
maybe   :-\


Hi all....

Apparently HA Hunt was in partnership as Hunt and Stephenson.


http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i9/

They designed The Workhouse of the Joint Parishes of St. Margaret and St. John, Westminster.  There are some diagrams on that link but no pictures yet unfortunately. 


Do you think it could have been a very posh workhouse??

EDIT....MEANT TO SAY AN EX WORKHOUS MADE INTO A HOTEL (will check history of it)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: millymcb on Friday 04 May 07 20:53 BST (UK)
H A HUNT is also in Oxford Dictionary of National Biography... Not sure if this link will work without membership of a library ...but he lived 1810-1889 and worked a lot in London/Westminster

http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/50186?docPos=15


It tells you all about him but doesn't mention any hotels specifically unfortunately.

 
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 04 May 07 21:35 BST (UK)
Just been pointed to this long running mystery....

A couple of thoughts...

If it is a "railway hotel" and was built by one of the railway companies, the plans for it may well be found at the National Railway Museum in York.

All the companies had their own distinctive style of architecture and a "rivet counter"( ;D)  may well hold the answer for us all!!
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: millymcb on Friday 04 May 07 21:42 BST (UK)
H A HUNT is also in Oxford Dictionary of National Biography... Not sure if this link will work without membership of a library ...but he lived 1810-1889 and worked a lot in London/Westminster

http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/50186?docPos=15


It tells you all about him but doesn't mention any hotels specifically unfortunately.

 

I tested it and the link does not work unless you have access to an online library and are logged in..so...here's a short quote from the page about his station work

"In his private practice, operating from offices in Parliament Street, Westminster, Hunt was closely involved in railway development from its earliest stages; on the north Staffordshire line he even designed stations, including the Jacobean-style Stoke-on-Trent Station and hotel; he also constructed Allsopp's gigantic brewery at Burton upon Trent. He was extensively engaged on the London, Brighton, and South Coast, Eastern Counties, District, and Metropolitan railways."
 
(Source: Oxford Dictionary of National Biography)
 
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 04 May 07 22:10 BST (UK)
The  "front elevation"  pic below the photo above is deffo neo Jacobean in style,

but I would propose that the photo is of a Queen Anne Revival style building....

Hence the almost Dutch style gable ends...they curve inwards as opposed to the outward Jacobean style...
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: millymcb on Friday 04 May 07 22:22 BST (UK)
So possibly not designed by our HA Hunt then as he favoured "Jacobean Style"  ???
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Sunday 12 August 07 22:37 BST (UK)
Dont know if I dare but here goes............................ Bump to the top again...
Sue ;D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Sunday 12 August 07 23:22 BST (UK)
Please don't do this to me again.....I have developed an almost incontrollable urge to examine architecture wherever I go..... I have a permanent crick in my neck from looking up.......I still believe that one day our mystery hotel will be discovered....one day.. ...arghhh...help
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: millymcb on Monday 13 August 07 00:15 BST (UK)
Oh no ... After months of counselling I had almost forgotten about the mystery hotel ;D ;D

Milly
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: drodgers34 on Monday 13 August 07 00:54 BST (UK)
Was over in UK in june/july. Was reminded of this because of the floods and the wicker area in sheffield was one of those affected.

The hotel probably wasn't there but it did remind me of the 'quest'
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: dave the tyke on Monday 13 August 07 08:18 BST (UK)
I thought that maybe the floods or perhaps the Germans had 'washed' it away. I was hoping it would remain that way then I could have stopped insisting that my wife and I see the railway station in every town we visit.
Anyway I blame it all on Tony Blair.
  ;)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: freddiebean on Monday 13 August 07 17:12 BST (UK)
Dont know if I dare but here goes............................ Bump to the top again...
Sue ;D

Sue! :o

How could you do this to us ;D

I hope you've bumped it up on the "Sheffieldforum"

I'm sure they'll love you for it  :-\ :D
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Monday 13 August 07 20:13 BST (UK)
Thought I would try here first to see what reaction I got first. ;D

You are all still there in the background then?  Thank you.  Still looking ;)

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Mair on Wednesday 15 August 07 15:35 BST (UK)
Sue

If any of our fellow listers are like me, we now have to wear neck braces to STOP us looking skyward!

Every facade of nearly every building I pass is being scrutinised......it's infectious!  Is there a cure on the horizon?

Only cure I can think of is to find the place .....!!  ???

Puts us back to the top again....eh? ;D

M

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: joanne56 on Friday 17 August 07 20:05 BST (UK)
WOT ! NO TAKERS?   :-\
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Thursday 23 August 07 21:39 BST (UK)
It doesn't look like it, does it.  Just bumping to the top. Ive totally run out of ideas. :(

Sue
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 31 August 07 07:45 BST (UK)
Why not approach  local papers and ask if they could post a pic in vainglorious hope someone recognizes it....
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: drodgers34 on Saturday 20 December 08 07:53 GMT (UK)
Bumping old threads should be a trend in rootschat.

I almost thought i had this wen I spotted a photo on a Derby website

http://www.picturesofderby.co.uk/districts/city%20centre/friargate/44.htm

Merry Christmas everyone

Dale (descended from poachers) Rodgers
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: mich b on Saturday 20 December 08 11:59 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone,

I can't believe it was well over a year ago when we were discussing this last! Its etched on my brain as if it was yesterday.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Michelle  ;)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: julianb on Saturday 20 December 08 12:02 GMT (UK)
Its etched on my brain as if it was yesterday.

When I'm in a bit of Sheffield City Centre that I've not been through recently, I still stop and look around just in the hope .....   ::)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: scrimnet on Saturday 20 December 08 12:16 GMT (UK)
Why not approach  local papers and ask if they could post a pic in vainglorious hope someone recognizes it....


Did any one ever do this??

 ;) ;)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: knightstemplar on Sunday 28 December 08 22:40 GMT (UK)
Thanks for bumping this thread to the top, I daren't.  ;D

I haven't gone to the press yet because it isnt my photo.  Perhaps the owner would like to send it to the Sheffield Star.

Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year ;)
Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: Arranroots on Sunday 28 December 08 22:50 GMT (UK)
Bumping isnt allowed.

Please consider the responses you've had so far and re-post when you've decided what further information you require.

Title: Re: Mystery Hotel 1912 ????????
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 04 January 09 22:24 GMT (UK)
Had a look back at a few posts of the thread here and the shieffieldforum one and I do hate to say this but I don't think the hotel's even in Sheffield!
"On the back of the photo it says Charles Buxton Sheffield." Buxton's seem to have lived in Sheffield area but donesn't mean the hotel was ever there.

Thread here started in Sept.2006 by knightstemplar: "It was taken in 1912 and was first thought to be Sheffield" and "On the back of the photo it says Charles Buxton Sheffield."

21 Feb.2007 by knightstemplar: "It might not be in Sheffield at all."

21 Feb.2007 by liverpool annie: "Whaaaaaaaat ??  Mightn't be in Sheffield after all that ??"

21 Feb.2007 by knightstemplar: "Local studies is convinced it isnt, he is usually right, but we still dont know."

22 Feb.2007 by J.J.: "Sheffield may only refer to the residence of Mr. Buxton in 1911..."

26 Feb.2007 by knightstemplar: "Dont just look at Sheffield, just because it says Sheffield on the other side of the card doesnt mean it it is Sheffield."

27 Feb.2007 by jaywit: "There are a couple of things that have bugged me about this from the beginning. Firstly it is on flat ground and appears to be a good sized area of flat ground, which must cut down the possibilities of where it could have been in Sheffield, and secondly there appears to be a small enclosed 'garden' in front of the windows, would a city centre hotel of that period have that feature? I would have thought at that time not much would  grow in central Sheffield."

1 Mar.2007 by julianb: "I have this niggling suspicion that it might not be Sheffield ......."
1 Mar.2007 by joanne56: "I am inclined to agree Julian.  I have looked at every available picture of Sheffield both old and new and the style just does not fit in. I must say I have abandoned the search ( it was driving me crazy) but I will also add that when I first saw the picture my immediate thought was "it looks like Blackpool" "

After being bumped up here for no reason several times no one has yet proven the picture was taken in Sheffield. Surely by now with all the posts in both places someone would have spotted it by now.