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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Westmorland => Topic started by: Darlingtonian on Sunday 12 November 06 20:20 GMT (UK)
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Is anyone researching Fothergills of Mallerstang, Westmorland? I'm trying see if there is a connection before 1841 to the Fothergills of Ravenstondale, Westmorland, the places are so close, I feel there must be one.
Can anyone help?
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Hi
I have a John Fothergill born 5 Oct 1794 in Mallerstrang. His parents were James Fothergill and Elizabeth Hutchinson. He had children as follows
James b 1823
Elizabeth b 1825
Margaret b 1832
John Ralph b 1834
Jane b 1837 and
Margaret Jane b 1852
I also have 5 more generations of Fothergills going back to 1622
regards
Jane
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Hi Jane
I think my John Fothergill was born 1791, but I only have the 1851 census to go by, as he died just before the 1861 census taken on 7th April..... I'm having trouble deciding which are his parents.
I can find a three lots of parents, Thomas and Elizabeth Morland, William and Jennett Hutchinson, had a John in 1789.......James and Francis Dent had a John in 1793 (but their child was baptised John Dent Fothergill)
None of them were 1791
Thanks for replying
Fay
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HI:
I have:
John Dent FOTHERGILL (M).............. C: 19 Jan 1793 of Birk Rigg
Father: James FOTHERGILL Kirkby Stephen, Westmorland,
Mother: Frances DENT England
Is this your subject?
Best regards,
Ron Long
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That's great Ron.
I chose John Dent Fothergill because his first two children are named James and Frances ...... the same names as his parents.
If you have a different family for John Dent Fothergill .... that throws my theory out of the window and I'll have to start again.
At least it means I have eliminated one of the John Fothergills born in Mallerstang around that time.
Can you tell me which is his family, as I can't find a John fothergill with 'Dent' in the middle on the census, a death or a marriage.?
Thankyou for replying Ron ..... I'm maybe getting somewhere.
Jean
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Hi Jean:
I think thqat I picked up rhe "DENT" in the name from the parish register. It's typical that it gets dropped in later references.
The family sheet that I have looks like:
The system didn't like the length of my family page ...please contact me directly.
I can't verify the match by your description of John Dent Fothergill's family for I don't have it. The above list includes his parents and siblings as I have it. Does it seem to fit for you.
If this still looks like a match, it might be worth while to switch to a direct e-mail for data. You can reach me at rweblong AT att.net
Best Regards,
Ron Long
Moderator comment: email amended in accordance with rootschat policy. Please use the personal message system.
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HI:
I have his birth at 1793 at Birk Rigg in Mallerstang. He was the son of James Fothergill and Frances Dent. His full name at birth was John Dent Fothergill.
Ron Long rweblong @att.net
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Hi Ron ....... have you just sent this message, or has it taken two weeks to appear.!!!!!
John Dent's baptism in 1793 is on LDS ........ my problem was ...... I wasn't sure if John Dent was the one I was looking for...... but after following 'the other' John fothergills, (especially the James and Elizabeth Hutchinson's child) who were baptised around the same time ...... I think you're probably right.
Jean
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Hello,
In Richard Fothergill's "The Fothergills - A First History" he writes:
"Many Fothergills lived in Mallerstang, almost certainly migrating over Wild Boar Fell into the valley. It is probable that the early residents would have been younger sons who would not inherit the tenancy of their parent's farm, but who had sufficient determination to develop a new piece of land in their own right."
I don't know whether or not you know the geography of the area but in case you don't Wild Boar Fell is between Ravenstonedale and Mallerstang.
He then has about 64 A4 pages about the Fothergills in Mallerstang with quite a few family trees but I've had a quick look and can't see your John Fothergill.
This book was followed by "A Second Family History" in which Richard Fothergill published his further research along with information that came from other Fothergill members after the first book was published.
I think you would find www.ravenstonedale.org intersting but then you probably know all about it already.
Good luck with your hunting
Brie
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Thank you for your reply Brie,
Richard Fothergill's books sound interesting ....... I've heard all about them but not read them ....... think they'll be on my next christmas present list.
I've been in email contact with Ron Long who has been immeasurably helpful with his information on the Fothergill families.
I do know the area but not in great detail.
'My' John Fothergill was living in the Lake District in 1841 and the problem was finding the right parents ..... quite a few 'Johns' were baptised in Mallerstang, around the same time. Thanks to Ron, I now think 'my' John was baptised John Dent Fothergill ...... although he dropped the 'Dent'.
I left the thread open, just in case any more information, like yours, came along. There seems to be more Fothergill families in Ravenstonedale than over the Fell in the Mallerstang Valley ..... Nateby and Kirby Stephen. .... not far away but connecting them is difficult.
Thank you again for your interest.
Jean
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hi , I am a Wharton from Kirby Stephan but in 2005 i went to ravenstonedale to look for info on my Wharton's in that area as well. at this time i think i copied some letters to a miss Isobel.?? ... stupidly i have not put her reference to me but they are from a M. Fothergill. they are dated 1909 and are absolutely full of fothergill history . to quote " i feel certain there has been a very near connection and great friendliness between the York F.gills and the brownber ones . The Carr end fgills. said they exchanged from Mallerstrang the last fgill in mallestrang died about ten years since and they owned their farm for more than 300 years. castlewaite by name ,yet they always said they sprung from r.stonedale "
Are you interested in me scanning these letters to you . Jan
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HI:
I descend from the Birk Rigg Fothergills and started my research with a family legend that our Fothergills were "of Carr End". I did enough research on that branch to respect their history and develop an interest in the other Fothergills.
I've transcribed a stack of letters from the Dinsdales to their American relatives and found it facinating. I would be VERY interested in receiving a copy of the Fothergill letters that you refer to in whatever form you make them available.
Best Regards,
Ron Long
Fullerton, CA
rweblong AT att.net
Moderator comment - email amended in accordance with rootschat policy in order to avoid spammers
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Hi Jan and hello again Ron......the letters sound fascinating Jan. I managed to get letters from Kendal Record Office for another branch of my family in Westmorland and they held a great deal of information.
I have PM'd you an email address if you have time to send a copy.
Jean
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Hi
do you have a Thomas Dent fothergill born to these same parents.
regards
coreen
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Hello Coreen....I have three Thomas fothergills, one born 1746, one 1808 and one 1842 but none of them appear to have 'Dent' as a second name.
Do you have a birth or baptism date or a marriage for thomas?
Jean
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Hi jean,
No I don`t have any certificates for him,He actually shows up on my great grandfather John Brownrig`s marriage certificate as father of John Brownrigg.
Haven't got the date of John Brownrig`s wedding at hand but think it was around 1867.
Thomas Dent Fothergill`s occupation was down as it looks like Statesman,but could be stylesman.
What is weird is that he doesn't show up on John Brownriggs Birth certificate 1839,so I assume John was his illegitimate son,as john`s mother is down as Margaret Brownrigg. They were from morland,Westmorland.
I know Margaret Brownrigg was born around 1818 in Morland,so maybe this Thomas Dent Fothergill was around that era,but then again he could have been older,I mean it wasn`t unheard of for girls to get pregnant to the masters they worked for was it,just another theory ???.
I wonder if anyone has access to the baptism records of Morland church,would love to know if Thomas Fothergill is mentioned on John`s Baptism records.
Best Regards
Coreen
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I remember now that we've talked before Coreen.
I remember because John Fothergill married Anne Brownrigg at Greystoke, Cumberland in 1829 - he was an innkeeper living in Springfield. Anne must have died before 1836 because John remarried.
I haven't found any children for them in the short time they were married, so maybe all this has something to do with their relationship. ... although that would be around the 1820s.
I'm sure I've seen Morland baptisms somewhere online .... I'll have a look around.
Jean
Ar yes....they're on the Cumberland & Westmorland Archives but they're too early for what you want.
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hi , I am a Wharton from Kirby Stephan but in 2005 i went to ravenstonedale to look for info on my Wharton's in that area as well. at this time i think i copied some letters to a miss Isobel.?? ... stupidly i have not put her reference to me but they are from a M. Fothergill. they are dated 1909 and are absolutely full of fothergill history . to quote " i feel certain there has been a very near connection and great friendliness between the York F.gills and the brownber ones . The Carr end fgills. said they exchanged from Mallerstrang the last fgill in mallestrang died about ten years since and they owned their farm for more than 300 years. castlewaite by name ,yet they always said they sprung from r.stonedale "
Are you interested in me scanning these letters to you . Jan
Sorry this is bringing up an old post.. but in my tree I have a Michael Fothergill, b.1840 Liverpool d.1920 and decends from Michaels that lived around the Yorkshire dales. He had a daughter, Isabella, and a wife also Isabella. Just wondering if there might be a connection? There seems to be relatively few M. Fothergills, and my line contain the only Michael Fothergills that I've come across.
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hi Tommi , now the excuses . i have stripped my house as I am carpetting and everything is in garage and my hard drive is in shop and i am on lap top which doesn't carry any info, If you put up three posts i will be able to private message you with some info in the next week. In meantime . the fothergills i mention were in the ravenstonedale area and the letters were from the ravenstonedale family history group. They have now gone on line and i think you will get them thru google . otherwise i will send you address when my computer is up and running . the second place is the Kendal archive s. I went there and they have so much Fothergill info mation i was unable to gather it as I am only fractionally related to them thru marriage and I didn't want to get too far off track . Hope I hear from you because it does sound promising with these letters i have here tho for some reason I thought it was a women writing
i did send them to Ronald Long so if you feel like being a detective you maybe able to contact him .
Thanks Fred,
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Hi Jan & Tommi,
If you can't get in touch with Ron, I have the letters from Mary Fothergill of Brownber Cottage, they are to a Miss Isabel and her sister in 1909......you kindly sent me the letters Jan.
There is no mention of anybody called Michael but they may throw some light on your Yorkshire Fothergill branch of the family..... and they are lovely to read .... very interesting and so many people mentioned.
It just shows that the Fothergills were interested in their ancestors so many years ago.
As Jan says Tommi ..... you will have to make a few more posts before you can receive private messages....... then I can send them to you
Jean
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Hi Tommi and welcome to rootschat.
Do you know which Yorkshire branch your family was from? I have some details for a few Yorkshire Fothergill families.
Brie
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Hi Brie,
My line is from the Newcastle branch 'B', in Richard Fothergill's Second History book. My earliest known ancestor is Michael Fothergill, b. 1763 at Reeth, Yorkshire, d. 1837 Stannington, Northumberland. In 1784 he married a Hannah Law in Durham.
Any info would be great! Although I've got most of the detail from Michael on down to me from census and BMDs. Any photographs or other info (overseas travel etc) would be good if you know of any, or anything earlier than 1763 that could link us to another line. Genetically, my line is distinct from the Ravonstonedale line by Y chromosomal DNA, although similar to a Featheringill (USA) branch that came off maybe a couple generations before Michael b.1763.
Thanks,
Tom.
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hi Tommi , now the excuses . i have stripped my house as I am carpetting and everything is in garage and my hard drive is in shop and i am on lap top which doesn't carry any info, If you put up three posts i will be able to private message you with some info in the next week. In meantime . the fothergills i mention were in the ravenstonedale area and the letters were from the ravenstonedale family history group. They have now gone on line and i think you will get them thru google . otherwise i will send you address when my computer is up and running . the second place is the Kendal archive s. I went there and they have so much Fothergill info mation i was unable to gather it as I am only fractionally related to them thru marriage and I didn't want to get too far off track . Hope I hear from you because it does sound promising with these letters i have here tho for some reason I thought it was a women writing
i did send them to Ronald Long so if you feel like being a detective you maybe able to contact him .
Thanks Fred,
Thanks for the info... I'll reply to both of these posts and hopefully that'll allow me to pm! :)
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Hi Jan & Tommi,
If you can't get in touch with Ron, I have the letters from Mary Fothergill of Brownber Cottage, they are to a Miss Isabel and her sister in 1909......you kindly sent me the letters Jan.
There is no mention of anybody called Michael but they may throw some light on your Yorkshire Fothergill branch of the family..... and they are lovely to read .... very interesting and so many people mentioned.
It just shows that the Fothergills were interested in their ancestors so many years ago.
As Jan says Tommi ..... you will have to make a few more posts before you can receive private messages....... then I can send them to you
Jean
Hi Jean,
I'd love to read the letters to see if there may be a connection to my line.. please send them through whenever you can! :)
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Hi Tom,
The Fothergill information I have comes from Richard Fothergill's books so it sounds as if you already know about that. I do however have material to do with Ravenstonedale/Mallerstang and bits of Yorkshire etc and will keep your branch in mind when I am looking at it. Sorry I wasn't able to help further at this stage.
Brie
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Hi Brie,
Actually, what might be handy for me is if you have any old maps of the region from around the 1700s or earlier?
Thanks,
Tom.
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Hi,
An excellent site for early maps of the area can be found here.
http://www.geog.port.ac.uk/webmap/thelakes/
Brie
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My wifes fothergill line is the birkrigg A branch.we have got as far back as James Fothergill and Mary Parkin (or Perkin).born around 1700. Has anybody gone further back .A bit stuck with these two.
Thanks
Trevor
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Hi Trevor,
Just been reading your post. My friend Joyce ( who lives in Keighley in Yorkshire ) has been looking for the same family names I think??
I was wondering if she had contacted you recently?
I look forward to your reply.
Kind regards,
Pauline.
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Hello Pauline,
I dont recall having any contact with Joyce. Its quite a while since I've done any Fothergill research but I have managed to go further back than James now. If she wants to contact me I will give her any information I've found.
Thanks
Trevor
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James Fothergill & Mary Parkin at Birk Rigg are a common destination. I spent several years trying to find their parents. The clue is to find the home of James Fothergill before he arrived at Birk Rigg. His first children were born at Deep Gill. His parents at DeepGill farm were John Fothergill and Isabell Rudd. The grandparents were John Fothergill and Jane Birkbeck & John Rudd and Hannah Ellison. More details are in my Family tree at Ancestry.com (RWLONG)
I exchanged data with Richard Fothergill to define the Birk Rigg-A and -B Fothergill lines that he published in his excellent volumes on The Fothergill History.
The fascinating bit about this family is the rumor that the Carr End Fothergill family has roots at Deepgill. I'm hoping that the DNA programs will eventually validate the relationship between the families.
By the way the archives of RootsChat contain earller messages from me about this family.
Ron Long
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Hello again Ron,
It's nice to see you are still keeping up your brilliant work on this family.
Regards
Jean
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Hi Trevor,
I have let Joyce know about your FOTHERGILL's and she is going to go to the Rootschat Page.
Let us hope that you can connect?
Kind regards,
Pauline
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Hi Trevor,
I am sorry but my friend Joyce has not been able to use her computer and she has asked me to sen d what information that she does have.
JOHN FOTHERGILL born in 1762 married a SARAH PARKIN of Mallerstang at Hardraw Her father's name was BELL?? Is there any reference in your tree of any of the above??
Kindest regards,
Pauline
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Hi Pauline
Haven't got john or sarah in our tree although sure they must be related somehow . Did a search on Ancestry and all the trees I found with these 2 in.have Johns birth as 1750. What information does your friend actually have. If its something in particular shes looking for I could have a look for it if she wants.
Thanks
Trevor
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Hi Trevor,
Unfortunately that is all the information that she has, but thank you for your time.
If she finds anything else, I will contact you.
Kind regards,
Pauline
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Hello Pauline
Ok, this is what ive found anyway.
Sarah Parkin bap. June 11 1761 at kirkby Stephen. Father Bell Parkin.
Sarah died 9 aug 1843 ravonstonedale.
John fothergill bap. April 4th 1750 Ravenstonedale. Father john 1713-1780
Mother Elizabeth.
Found 2 sons james 1791-1862. Robert 1801-1879. If i find anything else I'll post it.
Thanks
Trevor
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+- Searching> FOTHERAL.LST
John Fothergill (M)..................I M: 08 May 1786
Spouse: Sarah PARKIN Hardrow, Yorkshire, ENG
Ba:-7530712 75
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John FothergillL (M).................I C: 09 May 1787
Father: John Fothergill Ravenstonedale, Westmorland, ENG
Mother: Sarah PARKIN
P003081
James Fothergill (M).................. B: 30 Mar 1791
Father: John Fothergill Ravenstonedale, Westmorland, ENG
Mother: Sarah PARKIN
P003081 097339
Parkin Fothergill (M)................I C: 11 Dec 1801
Father: John Fothergill Ravenstonedale, Westmorland, ENG
Mother: Sarah
P003081
Ron Long
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Hi Trevor,
Thank you so much for your information, I will let my friend Joyce have this information. I know that she is going to be pleased.
Kind regards,
Pauline.
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Hi Ronald,
Thank you so much for your information, I will let my friend know.
I know that she will be very pleased.
Kind regards,
Pauline.
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Hello all, I know I am many years too late for this thread, but I wondered if anyone here is still actively researching the Mallerstang Fothergills and if so if you can be found on ancestry? I believe my father is related to these Fothergills through both his maternal and paternal lines so I am very interested in anything that might help fill in some of the pieces of the puzzle.
Thanks!
Grace