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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Jayson on Tuesday 16 January 07 15:55 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Just discovered that Robert Tyser, M.D. of Tiverton in Devon married Arabella Maria Bayley at Chatham, Kent on the 25th May 1819.
If anyone has a connection with this family I'd be more than happy to share information.
Jayson
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Hi just seen your message. I have Maria Sarah Tyser, born in Tiverton 1816, daughter of a doctor, who I believe moved to Pembury in Kent (we have a sampler stitched by Maria as a child, with the address Harcourt House, Pembury).
She married 1837 Colonel John Thomas Smith, of the East India Company marine and had five sons and eight daughters.
But I know nothing about the Tyser family. Can you fill me in - do you think it could be the same family (Tiverton is still relatively small)?
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Hi
From what you have said I'm convinced that it is the same family? Unfortunately, though, I haven't any further details regarding Robert Tyser or the family from whom he was descended.
Do you have the name of Maria Sarah's father? Was it Robert Tyser? I see that Maria was born in 1816, which would mean that she couldn't possibly have been Arabella's daughter. I wonder if Arabella was Robert's second wife? The details of Robert and Arabella's marriage I acquired from the IGI and an edition of The Times newspaper (dated 27 May 1819) online. The Kent connection is also interesting as Robert and Arabella married there.
Robert's wife, Arabella Maria Bayley, was born (2 Aug 1790) in Nantwich in Cheshire. She was the youngest child of Peter Baylay 1742-1803, attorney at law, and Sarah Tomkinson. Her only other surviving sibling (an elder brother) was Peter Bayley who was a poet. He died in London in 1823.
I was quite pleased to find Arabella's marriage as I originally thought she had died as I couldn't find anything more on her apart from her being mentioned in her father's will.
http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/1754
The above link will tell you more about Arabella's brother. Hope this has been of some interest?
Jayson
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Thanks for the message: if i discover anything else I will let you know (if I can remember where I found you!).
Georgina
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More news! Robert Tyser had three wives, the first was just Emily (no other data), the next, Maria Walter, he married 5 October 1805 at St. Andrew Undershaft, London and they had three sons, Henry 1805, George 1806, John 1811, and Louisa 1812 and Maria 1816. Mother Maria died in 1815. Robert married Arabella Bayley in 1819.
Robert was the son of Thomas Tyser 1746-1816, a builder i nBarking Essex and Sarah Dorman 1748-1828. There were 11 children. If it's of interest let me know and I will copy more. It goes further back too.
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Wow! :D Thanks for sharing this with me, Georgina. Yes, would live to know more about Robert Tyser, and his family when you have a minute to spare.
So Robert wasn't form Tiverton but from Essex? Or is it Kent? How interesting! They seemed to have moved around a fair bit.
Did you know that his third wife, Arabella, died in France? I was looking at wills on the National Archives site and found this:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=260699&queryType=1&resultcount=1
Jayson
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Sorry, family history is so time consuming and sometimes there just isn't time! I have another contact, through Genes Reunited, who is a direct descendent of Robert Tyser. His tree is there but there's no way of copying it to you, unfortunately. He's offered to send me a file on the family, which I can forward to you when I get it. I will try and photograph Maria's portrait when I'm in England in May.
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Please, don't feel the need to apologize! I understand completely. I enjoy researching but, like you, I don't always have enough time. I think I would need more than one life to follow up all the interests I have.
Jayson :)
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Robert and Arabella's marriage at Chatham St Mary
http://www.rootschat.com/links/060k/
Looks like a relative is one of the witnesses, but the other one is one of the Parish professional witnesses.
Ian C
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:D :D :D That's brilliant! Thank so much Ian. I didn't realise that the parish registers for this parish where online. Arabella was certainly a long way off from home - she was born in Nantwich, Cheshire, and died in France in 1832ish.
Jayson ;)
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I was just exploring the useful link provided by Ian and somehow got onto a Burke's volume called Colonial Gentry. There's a small reference to Robert Bayley Tyser's daughter Bessie (both of Wellington NZ) in there which might interest you:
http://www.us.archive.org/GnuBook/?id=genealogicalhera00burk#89
or perhaps easier to reach here:
http://www.archive.org/details/genealogicalhera00burk
Georgina
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I am descended from the Robert Tyser MD who you're talking about, and his wife Maria Walter. I did not know he had had a child with his 3rd wife Arabella Maria, why can I not find Robt Bayley on the censuses? When did they go out to NZ? So many loose ends, so little time...
I attach a picture of Dr Robt, for all your interest
Antonia
Image removed as it size was distorting the thread. Please feel free to re-post cropped image.
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How exciting - thanks Antonia. Would you mind sending me the .jpg file by mail so that I can keep it? My address is watkins-spies(at)t-online.de
It would be great - he's my gt gt gt grandfather!
What is your connection?
Thanks in advance
Georgina
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Here is a pair of v small portraits of Robert's daughter Maria Sarah and her husband Col. John Thomas Smith. I only have photos of the portraits, don't know who has them.
Georgina
Images removed as there size was distorting the thread. Please feel free to post cropped images.
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These are notes that someone kindly sent me:
Robert Bayley TYSER ³
³ son of Robert TYSER & Arabella Maria BAYLEY ³
³ m.1840 in New Zealand to Emily Isabella FITZGERALD no children ³
³ Reg Off ref: 0325 ³
³ ³
³ 1839 owned property in Stapeley (near Nantwich) and Alsager, ³
³ Cheshire. ³
³ c1839 note on IGI of b of daughter Bessie Tyser of Desertegny, ³
³ Londonderry. ³
³ 1842 possibly arrived NZ on brig ³
³ 1845 Settler at Te Aro, Port Nicholson district, Hutt Valley, New ³
³ Zealand (had store). ³
³ 1845-6 Waitt & Tyser, firm on Wellington, buying whale oil and bone & ³
³ shipping it to England (maybe some connection?) ³
³ 1848 Settler at Kai Warra ³
³ 1849 Robert Baillie Tyser arrived on "Cornwall" at Port Chalmers, New ³
³ Zealand.
Emily Isabella FITZGERALD ³
³ b.c.1815 ³
³ m.1840 in New Zealand to Robert Bayley TYSER no children ³
³ Reg Off ref: 0325 ³
³ d.1861 Aged 46 ³
³ bur.21 Aug 1861 in Old Napier Cemetery, New Zealand
Arabella Maria BAYLEY ³
³ bapt.18 Sep 1792 in Nantwich, Cheshire source:IGI 3 ³
³ m.25 May 1819 in Chatham, Kent to Robert TYSER and had one child ³
³ Banns called 24 May 1819 Vicar-General Licence Allegation ³
³ ³
³ d.1832 in? Dijon, France ³
³ Will made 26 May 1819. Witnesses: Thomas Tyser (Barking, Essex) ³
³ Probate 29 Mar 1832 at PCC. "late of Dijon in Kingdom of France" ³
³ ³
³ Daughter of Peter and Sarah Bayley
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Are we sure Bessie is any relation of Robert Bayley Tyser's? or any other of our Tysers?
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not 100 per cent sure. The extract from Burke's Colonial Gentry is attached.
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Looking again at the marriage cert of Robert Tyser and Arabella Maria Bayley, I have just noticed a strange coincidence, which is that one of the witnesses was a J Whiffin. There's a will listed at Chester RO for a Mrs Catherine Wiffin (a widow) who died in 1825. She is mentioned in the draft will of James Bayley 1759-1840 (Arabella's cousin) of Stapeley Hall as a tenant. I wonder if the there is a connection?
Wiffin isn't a common name here in Cheshire and there is only one Wiffin (Catherine) buried at Wybunbury.
Jay
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Dear Jayson, and all
The family has some volumes written by Robert Tyser's elder brother, Thomas (of Barking, Essex) where he talks of Robert and Arabella Maria going to Cheshire to visit 'his estate'. TT also transcribes a couple of letters from AMT, written from Normandy in 1819 and 1820, which mostly talk about Paris, going into raptures about Raphael, for instance, or the Catacombs; but she also mentions
"...Our arrival in England, depends on my Brothers summons, and we are at last, thank God, going amicably to divide the Estates, which will considerably enhance the value of our Portion"
and
"We took him, when he was a month old to Guernsey, where he was christened by the united names of Tyser and Bayley, we did not enter him here at the Mayoralty (which I believe in fact, we were oblidged to do) but proceeded immediately, for a British Island, for as all our small landed Property is entailed, it may be of the last importance to him at some future day to have an easy access to his Register"
this last, and also a reference to his cutting a tooth (!) makes it probable that Robert Bayley Tyser was born in 1820, but I have not yet found confirmation of this christening.
Antonia
ps TT doesn't seem ever to go up to Cheshire with his brother, so I have no clues as to Mrs Whiffin.
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Hi Antonia
How interesting! Do you have the sources for these references so I could get "hard" copies?
Jay
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The Thomas Tyser volumes that I refer to are still owned by my Tyser family, and they are manuscript - I'll append a jpeg of a page. However we only have 3, and he mentions completing his 9th; who knows where the others are?
Antonia
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Thank you very much, Antonia, for sharing this with me. I hadn't realised they (the vols) were still in the family's possession!
It's wonderful to be able to read Arabella's words here. Her brother was Peter Bayley (1778-1823). He was a poet, and seems to have spent most of his life in London where he died on on his way to the theatre on the 23 Jan 1823. I'm hoping to find his burial! But where does one begin to Start!
Jay
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Robert Bayley Tyser died 19 Oct 1854 at Pakowhia, Ahuriri from Consumption. His death was recorded at NZ Records Office in 1855. My source of information was "Shipping Records" in a newspaper. He married Emily Isabella FitzGerald on 20 September 1849 at Woodlands - the home of her younger brother Thomas Henry FitzGerald of Khandallah (now a suburb of Wellington).
I have located three children
- Peter Tyser (birth date not known). Known to be alive and well when his mother passed away in 1861. Father Reigner at the Meeanee Mission became his guardian.
- Elizabeth (Bessie) Ann Tyser was born in Wellington, NZ in 1851 and educated in Wellington with her cousin Mary FitzGerald. Her uncle Thomas FitzGerald seems to have taken on the responsibility for her. In 1872 she married William MacCartney.
- Robert Henry Tyser was baptised at Pakowhai on the 15 Aug 1854.
Emily Tyser passed away "after a short but severe illness" on 21 August 1861, in Napier, New Zealand. I cannot find a grave for Emily Tyser at the Napier cemetery and presume her brother Thomas Henry FitzGerald took her to Pakowhai to be buried with her husband Robert Bayley Tyser.
Pakowhai located on the Ngaruroro River has flooded numerous times and changed course several times. Locating the graves will be difficult and may not be possible.
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I made a bit of a breakthrough this week: I discovered that Robert's third wife Arabella Bayley was a married woman (to William Prockter Thomas in 1811). This marriage was dissolved in 1819 via the Exeter Episcopal Court, Somerset Assizes, before landing before the Lords and Commons as a Bill presented by the Earl of Shaftesbury, which finally passed the Commons on 12 May 1819.
If you are interested type in "Prockter Thomas divorce" and then you get Journals of the House of Lords in Google Books which you can follow through (luckily Prockter is v unusual spelling: he was a landowner in the Tiverton/Wellington area and a man of the church: whilst he took afternoon services they got to know each other, as you can read in the evidence.
Arabella and Robert married on (?) 24th May 1819 in Chatham, probably en route for Jersey/Guernsey, where their son Robert Bayley Tyser was born either that year or the following one. I am still piecing it together.
What happened to the children of Arabella and Prockter Thomas?
And what happened to the five children of Robert and Maria Walter? In Thomas Tyser's journal he mentions that Robert visited his children in 1820.
My gt gt gt grandmother, the youngest, Maria Sarah Tyser, sewed a sampler in 1819 giving the address of Harcourt House, Pembury, Kent. In Robert's biography the address 2 Paradise Row in Stoke Newington also crops up early and late - was that the home of the Walter family? Did they look after the young children when Robert left for exile in France? He died at Paradise Row in 1840, after Arabella had died in 1838 in Dijon, France.
Antonia's journals would be useful here !
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Thank you Hamburger.
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And what happened to the five children of Robert and Maria Walter?
Henry bp 6 May 1808 St George, Hanover Square
married by licence 6 Nov 1834 St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich Charlotte Mary PARKYNS d/o Sir Thomas George Augustus PARKYNS Baronet ( 5th? google)
1841 HO107; Piece: 748; Book: 2; Civil Parish: Newton Dixton; County: Monmouthshire; Enumeration District: 9; Folio: 3; Page: 20; Line: 20;
Charlotte Mary died 5 May 1858 Sardinia Probate 1st granted 6 June 1862 to Captain Percy Guillemard LLewellin SMITH Royal Engineers the nephew of one of the executors
1864 She is desc as formerly PARKYNS thentofore SMITH spinster
He died 1866 Probate to Georeg Walter TYSER nephew & Sir Thomas George Augustus PARKYNS Baronet ( 5th? google) presume his sister in law
Maria daughter of Robert married Captain John Thomas SMITH of Madras 1837 St John Hackney google
issue:
He married, on 27 June 1837, Maria Sarah, daughter of R. Tyser MD, and they had five sons and eight daughters. All their sons entered the navy or army.
Percy Guillemard LLewellin he appears to marry Ethel PARKYNS?? google
Louisa married 30 April 1839 Rev James GUILLEMART Vicar of Kirklinton Oxf she died 1840 Bicester ( NB James re married 1843 to another Louisa, Louisa Elizabeth
George Dormanb died 13 Mar 1888 married Maria MOULE 16 Sep 1835 Licence St John, Hackney Probate to 3 sons George Walter TYSER / William Haviside TYSER & Rev Edward Jarrett TYSER est £148919/2/2d
issue:
George Walter TYSER 1843 granted probate for Uncle Henry's will with Sir THomas PARKYNS died 21 Jan 1921
William Haviside born 1845 died 30 June 1908 Probate Henry Erskin TYSER & Edward Wm BEAL
who was the sole executor on the death of 2nd Liutenant Battallion of the Black Watch Henry E 9 April 1917 nr Arass France
Henry Parkyns born 1848 died 1880 a bachelor father applied for Probate
Charles Robert Tyser 1849 Sir Cahrles Robt TYSER died Italy 23 August 1926 grant to Walter Parkyns TYSER wife Lilian Adelaide who died December 1926
Maria Louisa C Tyser 1850 marries a John P RODGER
Julia Henrietta 1852
Rev Edward Jarrett TYSER 1854 died 20 February `927 Probate to Midland Bank & Richard Edward Bruce BEAL
just found this which may help you further, may just confirm some of what I have found!
http://
caliendi.com/Beal/indiI283.html
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And what happened to the five children of Robert and Maria Walter?
Henry bp 6 May 1808 St George, Hanover Square
married by licence 6 Nov 1834 St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich Charlotte Mary PARKYNS d/o Sir Thomas George Augustus PARKYNS Baronet ( 5th? google)
1841 HO107; Piece: 748; Book: 2; Civil Parish: Newton Dixton; County: Monmouthshire; Enumeration District: 9; Folio: 3; Page: 20; Line: 20;
Charlotte Mary died 5 May 1858 Sardinia Probate 1st granted 6 June 1862 to Captain Percy Guillemard LLewellin SMITH Royal Engineers the nephew of one of the executors
1864 She is desc as formerly PARKYNS thentofore SMITH spinster
He died 1866 Probate to Georeg Walter TYSER nephew & Sir Thomas George Augustus PARKYNS Baronet ( 5th? google) presume his sister in law
Maria daughter of Robert married Captain John Thomas SMITH of Madras 1837 St John Hackney google
issue:
He married, on 27 June 1837, Maria Sarah, daughter of R. Tyser MD, and they had five sons and eight daughters. All their sons entered the navy or army.
Percy Guillemard LLewellin he appears to marry Ethel PARKYNS?? google
Louisa married 30 April 1839 Rev James GUILLEMART Vicar of Kirklinton Oxf she died 1840 Bicester ( NB James re married 1843 to another Louisa, Louisa Elizabeth
George Dormanb died 13 Mar 1888 married Maria MOULE 16 Sep 1835 Licence St John, Hackney Probate to 3 sons George Walter TYSER / William Haviside TYSER & Rev Edward Jarrett TYSER est £148919/2/2d
issue:
George Walter TYSER 1843 granted probate for Uncle Henry's will with Sir THomas PARKYNS died 21 Jan 1921
William Haviside born 1845 died 30 June 1908 Probate Henry Erskin TYSER & Edward Wm BEAL
who was the sole executor on the death of 2nd Liutenant Battallion of the Black Watch Henry E 9 April 1917 nr Arass France
Henry Parkyns born 1848 died 1880 a bachelor father applied for Probate
Charles Robert Tyser 1849 Sir Cahrles Robt TYSER died Italy 23 August 1926 grant to Walter Parkyns TYSER wife Lilian Adelaide who died December 1926
Maria Louisa C Tyser 1850 marries a John P RODGER
Julia Henrietta 1852
Rev Edward Jarrett TYSER 1854 died 20 February `927 Probate to Midland Bank & Richard Edward Bruce BEAL
just found this which may help you further, may just confirm some of what I have found!
http://
caliendi.com/Beal/indiI283.html
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No, Louisa m. (at St John, Hackney) the Rev. James Guillemard, vicar of Kirtlington: I don't believe there is a "Kirklington". The Guillemards were former Huguenot refugees who had adopted the Anglican faith.
She did not die in Bicester, either, but of consumption at Kirtlington vicarage on 15 March 1840 and was buried in the churchyard. It's possible she had just given birth to a stillborn child, which of course would have weakened her, but I admit that is conjecture.
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Robert Tyser had three wives, the first was just Emily (no other data)
I have discovered the name of the first wife of Robert Tyser (not Emily). Her name was Maria Ball. She was born 27 March 1784 to Henry Ball and Sarah Beaver; she was christened at St Marylebone on 11 May 1784. She married Robert Tyser on 4 Feb 1804 at All Hallows, Barking By the Tower. She died aged only 20 - possibly in childbirth but so far no child found - and was buried 13 Feb 1805 in Barking, Essex.
(https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=r_266513279&fulfillmentTypeKey=6982)
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Thanks for the new information.
Interestingly all his three wivies have the name "Maria" - the Latin or Roman for "Mary".
Also noted Henry Tyser the alleged eldest child of the second wife is born in 1805.
More likely he belongs to the first wife Maria - there is not time for him to be conceived within the second marriage.
Dr Robert then remarries to give him a mother.
DeeDee
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Yes, sorry, I was careless.
Maria Ball married Robert Tyser on 8 February 1804; she was buried on 13 February 1805. I also assumed she must have died in childbirth, although there were plenty of other possible causes at that time, eg TB, but I haven't found any baby that fits (loads of other baby Tysers, but born to Robert's brothers/cousins around Barking).
RT then married Maria Walter on 5 October 1805.
The first son, Robert Walter Tyser, was born on 7 September 1806. Henry followed 22 March 1808, George 1810, John 1811, Louisa 1812, Maria 1816.
Mother Maria died 1817.
Yes Maria is pretty prevalent in the family. My guess is that it was probably pronounced Mar-eye-a (in my family of Protestants, that was how my aunt's name was used). My own name, Georgina, was also pronounced differently at that time.
Maria Walter's mother was also Maria: Anna Maria Walter nee Brasier.
I hope I've now got it all right. I have a tree on Ancestry co.uk btw.
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Hello Hamburger,
Thanks you for the dates - it has pulled my records into shape.
As for Henry Tyser - I had his birth in 1805, in Barking Essex, and his baptism 6 May 1808, St George, Hanover Square, London. With his death in 1866.
Thanks for the correct birthdate - but who is this child called Henry Tyser born 1805, in Barking - poss. the missing baby to the first marriage?
I will try to send you a personal message
Kae Dee
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Hi,
No Henry was born on 22 March 1808 and then christened 6 May at St George's, Hanover Square. You can see the original written church record in Ancestry.co.uk. I have really searched and cannot find any other Henry born in 1805. Robert Tyser's brothers in Essex were also having children around that time, but none named Henry.
Thank you for your long private mail - I have terrible problems with my phone line and pc internet at the moment, but will reply in due course re Smiths.