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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: Gillg on Sunday 01 April 07 10:22 BST (UK)
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Luigi Brissolari from Genoa sold ice cream in Manchester and Liverpool in the 1860s. He was also a street musician, and his household in the 1871 census included a large number of foreign musicians. (You can read about Luigi on the Lancashire page in the thread "Ice cream sellers in Manchester and Liverpool", and about the origins of his English wife Jane Maile on the Huntingdonshire thread "George Farey Maile".)
I've heard from several other Rootschatters with similar family links, and we decided it would be a good idea to open this thread and possibly discover new information and even link some of the families.
Gill
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Incidentally, living with the Brissolaris and their four chldren (here spelled Bripalari) at 7 Lionel Street, Liverpool, in 1871 were, as far as I can make out:
Antonio Bazzanetti or Bagganetti age 37 unm Interpreter b Trieste, Austria
Luigi ?Ginetti? age 34 unm Licensed Hawker b Genoa, Italy
Louis Eckel age 43 un Clerk b Alsace Lorraine
Louigi ?Bonenberg? age 37 unm Interpreter b Witham Essex
C? ?Sasso? age 31 m Musician b Genoa Italy
Mary do wife age 21 Musician b Witham Essex
James do son age 2 Scholar (!) b Witham Essex
Nicolo Galasso age 20 unm Musician b Naples, Italy
I have to admit that these are educated guesses at most of the names. As I have already discovered, the variations on the spelling of Brissolari are endless, so who can tell what the correct spelling of these other names was?
If you want to verify any of these, take a look at the 1871 image for Bripalari
4 Lionel Street, St Anne's Ward Liverpool, District Christchurch, ref. RG 10
p 3789 folio 161.
Gill
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Italian brothers Vittorio , Gerardo , Petro and Eugenio Crolla came to Britain, in the 1880's to set up an ice cream business .They settled in Ancoats Manchester where they became one of the first founders of the Little Italy district..
The brothers came from Pisinisco , a hillside village in central Italy.
They were also Musicians and Biscuit makers.
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Hi, Salford Lass
Welcome to this thread and thanks for your information.
Are your Crolla brothers related to the Crollas of Valvona & Crolla in Edinburgh?
See
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,9950,1245442,00.html
Of course there are lots of Italian families in Scotland. Apparently many of them were en route for America, intending to make the Transatlantic crossing from Greenock, but found that they liked life in Scotland well enough to stay there.
Cheers,
Gill
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Hello, Gill, ;D this thread will be a wonderful find for those searching...
Now this makes me rather angry that I did not know this...but the first waffle cups/ cornets ( that's a cone! Think horn- shaped) appeard in England and the patent for ice cream cones was applied for by an Italian ice-cream seller in Manchester...!
>:(
The World's fair thing is the story which we have all heard...anyway...this page has some interesting reading for some of you...
http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/IceCream/IceCreamCone.htm
Here is a link to another site with Ice cream sellers in their "Forte" family from Ciociaria ...
http://www.edmundforte.co.uk/141633.html?*session*id*key*=*session*id*val*
and WELCOME to rootschat! Salford Lass....
all the best, J.J.
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My dad, whose pat.grandfather came from Berkshire and mother's family from Ireland so no links to Italy - che peccato!
But he grew up in the 1920s with the Italian family who lived close by and made ice cream and had ice wells - so distributing ice to local businesses.
They were the Togni family of Hammersmith.
SM ...
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Hi SM. Welcome to this thread. :)
The combination of selling ice cream and being a street musician was connected with the weather, of course. Even if people are too cold to eat ices, they will always want to hear a bit of music. Other winter occupations included general street trading (licensed as a hawker like one of the boarders with the Brissolaris). The more successful traders who had suitable premises set up fish and chip shops or cafes.
Regards,
Gill
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Gosh,this thread`s taken off!
Here are ours.
GARIBALDI Bartholomew dealer in ice,mother Geromina,wife Angelina Ghirosi. STAFFS
POLI John ice-cream manufactuer and hard confectioner,sweet dealer,sugar boiler, LEICS.wife Louisa Ghiorsi,Andrew,Vincent,Frederick,Theresa.
CAMPODONICO Emmanuel,musician wife,Angelina,son Joseph wife Magdalena all musicians?. WOLVERHAMPTON
CAMPODONICO Louis confectioner ,ice-cream maker. musical box repairer.LEICS,wives,Johanna Ghiorsi,and Emma Boston,Angelina, Caroline,Rosie,Ada,Emanuel,Lewis,Charles,Edith,Amy,Harold.
All believed to come from GENOA area though some Census say,GENEVA.
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All believed to come from GENOA area though some Census say,GENEVA.
Probably misheard/mistranscribed GENOVA (Genoa) and assumed it was Geneva as British enumerators would have been more familiar with the Anglicised version of this name.
Tanti auguri a tutti
SM ...
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On the 1881 Census our Joseph CAMPONICO is a Lodging house Keeper in Birmingham .
Some of his lodgers are
PACITTO Gianbatista b Cassino(F) Italy musician
PACITTO Muriu b Cassino(F) Italy musician
PACITTO Stefano b Cassino Italy(F) musician
PACITTO Genuro b Cassino Italy(F) musician
MARANDELA Luigi bCervari Italy,musician
MARANDELA Angelu b Cervari Italy
MARANDELA Guiseppe 6 b Birmingham
MARANDELA Domenico 3 b Birmingham
CAPALDI Vincenzo b Cassino Italy musician
CAPALDI Nicolina Cassino Italy musician
CAPALDI Antonio Cassino Italy musician
VERRECHIA Bernado CARDTO(F) Italy musician
VERRECHIA Pasquale Cardto (F) Italy
GIZZI Maria San Guiseppe Italy musician
GIZZI Rita San Guissepe Italy musician
GIZZI FolomonaSan Guiseppe Italy musican
GIZZI Geogina San Guiseppe Itlay musician
GIZZI Carmina 10 San Guiseepe musician
GIZZI Luigi 4 San Guiseppe musician
PERRECCHIA Pasquale Valerutonde Italy musician
PERRECCHIA Angelamaria Valerutonde Italy musician
PERRECCHIA Zillippo Valeratonda Italy musician
VERRECIA Rosa Valeretonda(F) musician
VERRECHIA Pepind 5 Valerotonda (F) scholar
PERRENHIA Pietro2 Birmingham
PERRENHIA Giuramella 5 Birmingham.
It seems to me "musician" gave them a legitimate occupation when they arrived -even a four year old one!
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Thanks for that sm ,very helpful,Dad always said they came from North of Rome.
Carrie.
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When I worked in Italy (many, many years ago as an Au Pair) I found it strange that towns I thought I knew about such as Leghorn were actually something completely different in Italian - in this case Livorno.
And yes I did spend some time in Genova ;D
Ended up with the same family in Roma.
Enjoying this thread even though I have no connections - a far cry from my own laundry women and Ag Lbs and husbands blacksmiths and wheelwrights :)
SM ...
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Hi Gillg
I think there is a link between the Crolla's in Scotland yes, I will ask the person who knows more to post on here.
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The Granelli family from Ancoats, Manchester, have a fascinating site with photos and memories http://www.italian-heritage-ancoats.org.uk/mcderm.htm I remember their delicious ice cream from my childhood. ::)
http://www.italian-heritage-ancoats.org.uk/refs.htm#Issue1 is also interesting and refers to Italians in Northwest England.
Ciao tutti
Gill
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Another winter occupation for ice cream sellers seems to have been selling hot chestnuts. So many of the Italian immigrants were connected with food in some way, often at the rather more luxurious end of the market.
I wonder when the pizza invasion began? ;D Just found this on Wikepedia, which I think must refer to the Edinburgh Crollas:
Most expensive pizza created was made by the restaurateur Domenico Crolla who created a £2,000 priced Valentine pizza which included toppings such as sunblush-tomato sauce, Scottish smoked salmon, medallions of venison, edible gold, lobster marinated in the finest cognac and champagne-soaked caviar.
Ugh! Sounds disgusting! I'd much rather have an ice cream or a bag of hot chestnuts.
Gill
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Ich...bag of chestnuts, please!.. what a foul concoction...You'd probably have to pay me that much (or more) to make me eat it...! J.J.
:P :P :P :P :P :P :P
Here's another perfect example of "writing was left to the literate twits"
in this example of social journalism....his views will likely have the same effect as what was served up in the last posting from Gill....and although some of it is descriptive of the era, the views of the writer will probably not compell you to read the publication...written in 1877...
http://www.victorianlondon.org/publications/thomson-31.htm
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My wife side of the family use to be ice cream makers /sellers , but from a shop . This was back in the 1940's. They came from Italy and Sicily.
migky ;)
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Hi Migky
Welcome to this thread. :)
Interesting stuff, J. J. :o The topic of child slavery is still relevant today, isn't it?
And we still love Italian opera singers, or at least prefer to hear our opera sung in Italian. Luciano Pavarotti or Andrea Bocelli are at their most appealing when singing simple Italian folk-type songs - somehow much more attractive than "Strawberry Fair" or "Annie Laurie". No wonder people liked the catchy Italian songs.
Gill
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I found this today at Moston Cemetery, thought it might help anyone researching more on the Crolla's.
Salford Lass
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Same publication also has "Italian Ice men" ...makes my blood boil, though...some of this fellows comments...reminds me of how local "writers" & "journalists" spoke of the natives in their midst... :P ::) J.J.
http://www.victorianlondon.org/publications/thomson-19.htm
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Street sales in Victorian London...wonderful photographs!
http://www.cityofshadows.net/content/view/18/31/
Some interesting reading
http://www.anglo-italianfhs.org.uk/docs/immigration.html
Sheffield forrum has more...
http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2101621
Note the link to the photo gallery
http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/england/manchester/article_1.shtml
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There's some really interesting stuff appearing now, thanks everyone. Let's hope it helps other families with Italian ancestors, too.
J. J. I think my Luigi must have been among the earlier immigrants, as he married for the first time and had his first child in Norwich in 1848. Some of these sites seem to talk more about immigrants in the 1870s and later. (That would be around the time my Huntingdonshire Ag Lab relatives were emigrating to Australia, New Zealand and the US!) He was described in census records as an ice cream maker, whereas his children were ice cream sellers, so must have had premises of some kind, unless he mixed it up in the kitchen of his overcrowded house.:o Can't find a trade directory for the right period and place, unfortunately, to see if he's listed.
Gill
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Does anyone know how I should go about finding naturalisation papers ,if there are any?
Carrie
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UK TV HISTORY CHANNEL are running a short season of films called : THE LOST WORLD OF MITCHELL& KENYON. They were short films made from around the north west of England . They dealt with every day life of the working class's. In one program it shows the Italian family's from around the Ancoats area of Manchester, at the Witt walks and street selling. I think the put them on quite regular. Well worth watching.
http://www.bfi.org.uk/booksvideo/video/details/mitchellandkenyon/lost-world.html
http://www.movinghistory.ac.uk/archives/bn/films/bn7colliery.html
Many of these films were made before cinema's became popular , i think they were from around 1890's to 1920's
Migky
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Further to an earlier post on the first " Italian Ice Cream Makers", a Anthony Ginocchie / Ginnochio, ice cream maker, b. 1874, Accrington, m. 18?? , Mary A Muckle / Mukelt, b. 18876, Lancaster, Mary was a step sister of my grandmother, are there any Ginocchio's still around ?.
Jacqui (bodgers better half)
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Carrie
The National Archives site has several references to various catalogues connected with naturalisation . See
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/familyhistory/guide/migrantancestors/naturalisation.htm
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/Leaflets/ri2156.htm
It's worth a try.
Gill
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My grandfather was a Granelli, and I have been trying to establish a link between him and the Macclesfield Granelli family. The Ancoats site mentioned before has an article about my family on it, but the man has some of the details incorrect. I need to go back and ask him to amend it.
As far as I know my Granelli family came to Glasgow Scotland between 1901 and 1908. There is family talk that we are related to the Macclesfield Granelli family and it was apparently confirmed by a visit with them, by one of my relatives some time ago. But the current Granelli family believe this is not the case. I will have to wait until the 1910 census is out to get the next piece of the puzzle.
Nina
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Hi, Nina
Welcome to this thread. I don't know if you are a member of Genes Reunited, but there is a member of the Macclesfield Granelli family on there you might like to contact. If you aren't, I can try to get in touch with her for you.
Gill
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hi everyone
Don't know if this is of interest to anyone, but my local paper has just ran an article about the Bartholomuch family, italian immigrants that ended up in Loughborough, Leicestershire in the late 1880's. The family brought their own secret family ice cream making recipe with them and set up business!!
If anyone is interested and would like a copy, please PM me!
FEK 33 ;D
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Went to Felixstowe for a walk along the beach with husband and little doggy on Easter Monday. The world and his wife seemed to have similar ideas.
When we reached Felixstowe Ferry we treated ourselves to a 'Peter's of Ipswich' Ice Cream from a really old fashioned ice cream van - this is the Zagni family who have been ice cream makers in Ipswich for ever - probably because they make wonderful ice cream ;D ;D ;D
SM ...
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Hi Gillg,
I am a member of GR but I could not find a Granelli from Macclesfield in my searches.
Nina
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Hi Nina
I found the Granelli contact because she had entered one of my Brissolaris on her husband's tree. I'll send you a PM with more details.
Gill
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Just one more of Manchester/Ancoats Italian ice cream makers site. not sure if it has allready been added but here goes any way.
http://www.ancoatslittleitaly.com/
migky ;)
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Have just found through another line, the name Bacigalupo, which is mentioned on the Little Italy website as well.
Not sure if the name is associated with Ice Cream or Musicians just yet, but will keep updating as I find info.
Salford Lass
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Bacigalupo - I can't even begin to work out how to pronounce it, and if enumerators make such hard work of it as they did with Brissolari, it will be very difficult for researchers to trace, especially if the Bacigalupo ancestors were illiterate, as some of my ancestors were. Even with an English family name I have found four different spelllings.
Gill
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The story of the Morelli family of Portrush, Co. Antrim is fascinating. Angelo Morelli was interned on the Isle of Man and later in Bury during the Second World War. I wonder how many ice cream sellers were interned for the duration of the war. www.ices.uk.com
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I have a story regarding a family that returned to Italy ahead of the looming War and posted a query on "The other tread" (Ice cream sellers in Manchester & Liverpool) http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=214404.msg1615824#msg1615824
"JJ" suggested that I post here too...........It involves the surname" ~ Ceresa ~ or more importantly I know how it was said Sir-rea-sa.
Apparently this family made & sold ice cream in Manchester possibly in the Irlham or Davyhulme part prior to kinda 1938, when the family returned to Italy.
Anyone any ideas how I can confirm any of this?"
"tony h" has already been kind enough to offer to search his carrier bags for me :o ;D
Wendi :)
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Just a reminder that the cenuses are transcribed here with occupations so Ice Cream Sellers & Makers plus Street Musicians will be easier to find...and also the mistranscriptions as it is alphabetized....
;D http://www.anglo-italianfhs.org.uk/about/sitemap.aspx
Unfortunately, it won't help you, Wendi, but maybe the ItalianFHS can give you some advice as to where to look for info within the 20th century...
Gill, I am finding lots of info re: Righetti! and my Remember site has found a rellie in Germany!
Happy New Year to you all! J.J.
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Salford Lass...you probably saw both of these, but posting just in case as it hilights your Bacigalupo family:
http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/education/record_office/assets/pdf/newsletters/2006/ed57-12-06.pdf
http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/education/record_office/assets/pdf/newsletters/2007/ed59-02-07.pdf
and just a sampling of the stretches...Bachigaloupe, Basigalupe, Bacigallup, Bacigalugo, Basegalone, Bassigalope, Bashegolipo, Bacegaloph, Basigalup, Bassigalupi, Bacigaleepo, Bacigglupo, Bacigalopo, Basigaloupe, Basicaloupe, Baccigalupo, Bacigalupps, Bacigalupa, Bacigalubo, Bassagallope, Bacigaloppo, Bacicalupo, Baciglupo, BacigalopuBissagul, Basigale, Basicale, Beisiegel, Bacijalcpo...and that's a small bit of them
:D J.J.
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JJ
Glad you are making progress. I haven't got any further with my Brissolaris. They seem to have given up making both ice cream and music after the death of their father.
Happy New Year! ;D ;D
Gillg
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Just in case the name Lenari pops up for someone...
Photographs related to John Lenari's ice cream shop turn of the century manchester
http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/records.asp?cat=124-2242&cid=0
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Thanks JJ, will take a look at those links.
Another for anyone with Crolla's in their trees are http://crollafamily.tribalpages.com and my Crolla Forum http://crollafamilytree.aceboard.com/
anyone with link welcome to join.
Debbie
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Further to an earlier post on the first " Italian Ice Cream Makers", a Anthony Ginocchie / Ginnochio, ice cream maker, b. 1874, Accrington, m. 18?? , Mary A Muckle / Mukelt, b. 18876, Lancaster, Mary was a step sister of my grandmother, are there any Ginocchio's still around ?.
Jacqui (bodgers better half)
Hello i`m new here.
I`m doing the family tree thing and have Antonio Ginocchio born 1874 from Accrington on my tree. Antonio's brother Dominic married Jane Williams and they had a son called Charles Ginocchio who married Florence Young. (She is my grandad's sister) Charles Ginocchio was a POW in WW1. His grandfather Stephen Ginocchio came from Genoa before 1871. He married Margaret Caldwell in 1884. If anyone has any more information please PM me.
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Hi all, my family the Tuzzios came from Frosinone, Lazio to Birmingham, in the 1890s, my great grandfather did sell ice-cream for a while, many Italians did. for anyone interested, there is a book called "Bella Brum" by Doreen hopwood, abt the Italians in birmingham. Great book.
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Hi All
Just been directed to this fascinating thread by JJ (thanks, JJ).
As well as the well-known Italian communities in Holborn and Ancoats, there was a smaller 'Little Italy' in Hull from the 1880s. It was situated in a compact area of tightly-packed terraces and courts known ironically as the 'West End' (it was a far cry from the more famous West End in London). These streets were home to many of the Hull poor as well as Irish and Italian immigrants.
My RISI ancestors came to the UK in early1880s from Cassino and were employed in the usual combination of ice-cream sellers/street musicians. My great grandfather Lorenzo Antonio RISI first turned up in Glasgow in 1881, then in Leeds (1882), before settling in the 'West End' (Hull). He later had workshops in North Street, Hull, in the heart of the Little Italy district, where he made ice cream and repaired and hired out street pianos with his son pasquale Antonio. Pasquale later became a publican, managing the Royal Oak on Spencer St under the anglicised name of Tony RICE, where he employed my grandfather Vincenzo as barman.
Another ice cream manufacturer in the West End of Hull was that of George Pontone based at 58 Spencer Street, Hull. Trade directories of the early 1900s listed several Italian ice-cream businesses in the ‘West End’ area, including Laurence Rice (Risi), Frank Penna, Alfred Bacci, Charles Corodino, George Pontone and George Ladolcetta, all listed as ice-cream makers.
Lorenzo and his wife Geltruda (nee FUSCO) moved to Leeds/Bradford and then to Newcastle upon Tyne in the early 1900s; they died in Newcastle in 1927/1919.
As I've posted on another thread Italy:Immigrants to UK - RISI family (http://Italy:Immigrants to UK - RISI family) there is still a RISI ice-cream business making and selling ice cream in the city.
Paul
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Here's the link to that other thread: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,309380.0.html
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Hi - I have just come across this thread.
The Northern Echo newspaper for Wednesday of this week included an article on Italian ice cream sellers in the Darlington area.
Paul Lanagan's website at www.houghtonlespring.org.uk has information on the ice cream parlours in Houghton le Spring, Tyne & Wear. Click on 'Articles' and then scroll down to 'Ice cream Parlours & Sweets'.
Wearsider.
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Link did not work try this CLICK 4 HOUGHTON (http://www.houghtonlespring.org.uk/)
Migky ;)
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Thanks for that MIGKY. The extra hyphen caused the problem - I have removed it. My apologies for this mistake.
Wearsider.
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There is another article in today's 'Northern Echo' on Italian Ice Cream Vendors.
Wearsider.
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Here is the link to another article in that paper.
Migky ;)
Italian ice cream (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/search/3878954.The_Italian_ice_cream_maker_who_called_Darlington_home/)
And this one.
More Italian icecream (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/search/4292689.Pedalling_ice_cream_in_the_North___a_viscous_cycle___/)
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Thanks MIGKY. Chris Lloyd has done very well in producing the articles and also another one published in the paper for 3rd November 2004.
Wearsider.
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Slightly off topic, but does anyone know why Italian ice-cream sellers were in some areas known as "hokey-cokey men"?
Robert
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Robert
I think it was Hokey Pokey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokey_pokey_(ice_cream)
has several suggestions as to its origin, mainly based on Italian phrases, e.f. "ecco un poco" - "here's a bit", but also tries to make a link with "hocus pocus", whose origins are equally obscure!
Gillg
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Devote
Forte
Italian Ice Cream Sellers.
My family name is connected to both Ice Cream making and street musicians.
In Manchester there was a Devote family who in the 1881 lived at Richmond Street Manchester. John Devote was head of the household born 1847 and his occupation was Ice Cream Hawker born Italy. Also living there were John Forty 1859 occupation Ice Cream Hawker, born Italy.
In the 1891 and 1901 Census John Devote was living at 270 Oldham Road, Manchester, occupations being Confectioner and Confectioner Shopkeeper respectively.
Though they share my family name and my grandmother used to say they used to visit the Devotes in Manchester I have yet to find a family link apart from the name.
Italian Street Musicians
My 3rd great grandfather Jacob Devote born Italy was a Street Organ Grinder in 1841 (child’s birth certificate). On later birth certificates of more children he put his occupation as Musician 1844 and 1852. All the records for him are in Wales and each child was born in a different town before he settled in Pembrokeshire by 1861.
His great grandson was the first person to sell ice cream on the streets of Pembroke!
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John & Emma Devote are still at Oldham road Manchester late 1910 early 1912
Migky ;)
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In 1927 there is:
John Devote. Ice cream dealer.
2A Queens road, Harperhuy.
John Devote. Shopkeeper.
270&272 Oldham road Manchester
Migky ;)
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John & Emma died and are buried in Southern cemetery Manchester. Along with other family members.
06/06/1933 John Devote Southern Cemetery
02/01/1936 Emma Devote Southern Cemetery
Roman Catholic Section D58
Migky ;)
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Thanks very much for that information.
My grandmother married into the Devote family in 1922, Emma died in 1935 and I think John died later. They had 5 daughters I think so I haven't managed to trace them.
It's a shame I can't get a family link.
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Buried 02/01/1936
Emma Devote Southern Cemetery
Age 80 widow 272 Oldham road
Buried 06/06/1933
John Devote Southern Cemetery
Age 86 Shopkeeper 270 Oldham road.
You sure they are not yours?
Migky ;)
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Ha ha. Great. Yes I wish they were, but even though my grandmother said she used to visit them I can't tie them in.
I have their wedding certificate (1874). He has put his father down as Andrew Devote a farmer. I have no connection with an Andrew Devote. What is strange is his occupation on the wedding certificate is Asphalter, but I have yet to find him on the 1871 Census.
My Italian ( Devote) was born c1820 and he had a son called John Devote (1844). I had thought he might be a nephew maybe of Jacob as this John was born c1847 Italy. Have no way to prove anything. Except he was not the son of my Jacob. If you know what I mean.
My Jacob Devote's father was John too.
There were a few Devote families that settled here from Italy. We don't seem to match up. I think the name was originally Devoto
Thanks again for all the dates and info.
Steven
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It is a shame there not yours, as for the asphalter been down as trade. I would say, you would do any kind of work when you arrive in a new place and later try and start your own business.
As for the other spelling of the name Devote to Devotto, there are where a few in Manchester also.
Migky ;)
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Indeed, I have a census return for 1851 in Whittle Street with no less than 20 Italian musicians. The head of house was a Devote/Devoto, it looks like anyhow and his occupation is something pianist, possibly Street Pianist.
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Further to an earlier post on the first " Italian Ice Cream Makers", a Anthony Ginocchie / Ginnochio, ice cream maker, b. 1874, Accrington, m. 18?? , Mary A Muckle / Mukelt, b. 18876, Lancaster, Mary was a step sister of my grandmother, are there any Ginocchio's still around ?.
Jacqui (bodgers better half)
Hi,
I am new to this forum. I was interested in this thread as my gggrandfather was Peter Ginochio born c1820 in Genoa. My gggrandmother was born in Ashton under Lynne but they married in Liverpool in 1856. In the 1871 she appears as a widow but I have never been able to trace a death record for him. Peter was a figure maker. He was my gggrandmother's second husband. Her first husband Luigi Gasparina was a musician.
Trisha :)
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Hi Trisha, welcome to RootsChat,
Stephen Ginocchio, b. 1849, Genoa, d. 1919 Lancs.
Sarah ?, b.1854, Bradford, d.1884, Haslingden
Children
Seraphine Dominic, b1873. Preston, d. 1912, Chorlton
Anthony, b.1874, Haslingden
Bennetta, b 1877 " "
Jacob, b.1879 " "
Angilina, b. 1881 " "
2nd. wife, m. Dec. 1884, Haslingden
Margaret Hannah Caldwell, b. Lancaster,d. 1906, Lancaster.
2nd. family
John Thomas, b. 1885, Haslingden
Mary, b. 1887, Accrington
Rose Hannah, b.1889, Haslingden
Louisa J. b. 1892, Lancaster
Sarah, b. 1894, Lancaster
Our connection is via Anthony, b.1874, m. 1894 Lancaster,
Mary Ann Muckelt / Muckle, b 1875, Bradford, her father, William, b1848, Lancaster, was the 1st husbandof my wifes
g. grand mother. i have a few more details if you think there is a link. Regards. Bodger
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Hi Bodger,
Thanks for the welcome. I would love to think there is a connection but sadly we will probably never know. Yours are a different generation to mine. I am led to believe that Ginochio/ Ginocchio is a common surname for people from the Liguria region of Italy. Translated into English it means Knee and takes it's name from the shape of the coast line. It's nice to know there are are others interested in the name - I thought I was alone!
Thanks
Trisha
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WITH REGARDS TO LANCASTER GINOCCHIOS
hey im new to this..and dont have much information but Ginocchio is my grandmother family
Seraphine Dominic, b1873. Preston, d. 1912, Chorlton is my nannas great uncle or Greatgrandfather and steven obviously was his father they called Seraphine Dominic just plain and simple dominic,
we still have people in our family following Angelini's name such as my aunty Angela and new born Cousin Angel Jane. My nannas family still live local Overton Middleton way...with ian as my nannas cousin.. My nannas uncle was called Mark and was either Seraphine Dominics Son or Anthony's.
My greatgrandmother was called Annie Ginocchio (Marks sister) and was from lancaster. she was one of 13 children but some died (as in the times they did) and she was fathered by either Dominic Or Anthony.
we thought stevens second wife was irish, thats what we have always been told (or possibly irish decent) as the family arent ginger but we have warmth to our hair. (my 2 cousins r ginger)..and my nannas mother was deep auburn feiry haired. guess its an assumption based on hair.
if anybody can help me clear my family tree because im only 18 and i would really appreciate it..
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also found that steven ginocchio (or stephen) was a well known musician in Lancaster, and we were also the first family to bring ice cream to Lancaster, the 4 main lancaster families were
ourselves (ginocchios), the macaris, the brussianis, the rastellis..
a girl i went to school with was a rastelli.
the ginoccio's taught the macaris the icecream trade (which is still running under the macara family now).
and the rastellis r still going strong with their restaurants and cafe's as are the brussianis x
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i dont know how accurate any of that was because im only going from word of mouth... my but nanna has written me a family tree with all the children grand children great children etcetcetc
starting with the marriage of Dominic ( b.1873-d.1951) to Jane Hockey (b.1878-d.1930)
x
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Just found this interesting website, I am trying to link up my family with the Italian Ice cream sellers in Manchester.
My GG Grandfather John Ambrose who was born in Liverpool 1823, lived in Manchester with his wife Sarah, by 1861 he was a Confectioner in Manchester, addresses being New Islington Street, Canal Road and Butler Street. He was also known to have an Ice Cream Cart, and had some connection with the Italian families in and around Manchester.
His Father Henry Ambrose is shown in 1841 census as being a shopkeeper then with his wife Ellen and son John & Elizabeth, living at Bradford Street.
Can anyone assist me in relation to this Ambrose family, there is talk that the Ambroses came from Italy originally, and have to verify all of this.
Janjim
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Two books have recently been published that contain photos of Sunderland and Houghton-le-Spring, Tyne & Wear. ice cream sellers.
The first book is 'Britain in Old Photographs: Sunderland by Stuart Miller and John Brantingham on behalf of Living History North East and published by The
History Press.
For a review of the book go to the Sunderland Echo website at www.sunderlandecho.com/ArticlesIndex/Listmonths.aspx and then click on '2010 February' then on '17' and then on 'Features. Click on 'Sunderland since Victorian times in photos' and you will be presented with the review of the book and a gallery of photos that were featured in the article.
One of the photos is of 'Lizzie Valente selling ice cream in
Northumberland Place in the 1930s.
The second book is 'Houghton-le-Spring in old photographs, Volume 1' by Paul
Lanagan that was launched on Thursday of last week.
Go to www.houghtonlespring.co.uk/ and click on 'Houghton Heritage'
then click on the date underneath 'Updated' and click on one of the
outlets at which the book can be purchased to see details of
the book.
Page 26 of the book has two photos of The Roma Cafe and Jaconellis
shop and new ice cream van and page 27 has two photos of Rianis Gaiety
Temperance Bar and shop.
Wearsider.
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Hello All,
This has been bringing some lovely memories back of my childhood. Gillg, my dad used to tell us of the 'Hokey Pokey' man coming round in Poplar. He would also start a rhyme that went 'Hokey Pokey, penny a lump -----' , he would never finish that but always smiled[not sure if it was something rude!!] My early memories in the East End was of Dellamura and Rossi ice cream shops. Dellamura especially, because they also had an icecream 'cart' at the Green Gate, Plaistow. The lemon ice had great big chunks of lemon in it that would make you wink when you chewed on it [none of the present day 'numbers & additives']. I used to love a mixed tub which was half icecream and half lemon ice. My mouth is watering just thinking about it. Thanks for taking me back.
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Hello! I've just stumbled on this thread and I was wondering if anyone might be able to help.
I'm a student at the University of Edinburgh. I'm doing a research project on Italian language maintenance among the Scotsitalian community and on its role in shaping the identity of successive generations of Italian immigrants.
If you're a Scotsitalian (no matter whether you speak Italian or not) or have Italian ancestors (no matter how remote they may be) and think you could spare 5 minutes (honestly, it won't take more than that) to fill up a questionnaire I would be very grateful. Please send me a private message and I'l forward the questionnaire to you.
Thanks a lot
Katia
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I am new to rootschat and new to our Ice Cream making, street musician family links. I come to you from the US, but my ggrandpa was born Emanuel Oliva in Bury, Lancashire (Oliver in US) and his father, Giovani was a listed as a traveling minstral on his birth registry in 1859 and musicians in census records. Giovani Oliva (father Giovani) married Maria Divote/Devote(father Nicholas) 1844 in Liverpool and they ran a boarding house in Liverpool. The Oliva's daughter and granddaughter married into the Granelli's of Macclesfield family and thus the ice cream connection. I am interested in the Devote/Divote connection and wondering if Maria is connected and in tracing the Oliva and Divote family back to Italy.
The Oliva's later moved to Macclesfield. Just now connecting with the Granelli's and wondering if the Guido Devoti that married into the Granelli family may also be related to our Maria...so many name variations.
Have heard Maria Divote may have been from the Liguria region.
Have read the victorian pages on the thread and wow...such a negative discription. Much like our Irish ancestors in US.
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There is a book available in Manchester called "Manchester's Little Italy" by Anthony Rea - memories of the Italian colony of Ancoats - I think this book may be available at the Manchester Museum - cost 5.50 pounds.
I live in Australia, but a relation forwarded it to me, just to give me an insight into the Ice Cream Vending business which my GG Grandfather John Ambrose was involved in for a number of years.
Granelli family features quite a bit in this book, quite a good read.
janjim
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Thank you! I will forward this to my UK distant cousin who has been in touch with the Granelli's. Maybe she can do the same for us.
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Hi,
I cant believe I didnt spot this thread before;)
My great grandfather, Domino Bagnaro, came to england at the end of the 19th century and was an ice cream seller in southwark/bermondsey. My grandfather taught me the song that his dad sang as he went round selling ice cream and it mentions selling chestnuts too.
If we had audio I would sing it for you;)
The boys are comin' around ma barra,
say 'give us a tasta [taster] Jack'
Me no givva no tasta, because you nicka ma glass!
alonga come policey man, policey said to me
"what are you doing in this country? go back to Italy!"
I come all the way from Italy,
I made/make my way down saffron hill,
In the winter I sell chessanuts a lot!
In the summr I sell Ice a cream, a topper a[?] and ice tasta
hoorah hoorah, for im the Italian man.
Saffron Hill Ive discovered is where many Italian immigrants lived and worked from. I am still learning about this so cant tell you much more right now.
Ruth
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Hi
Very new to this so please excuse any mistakes. I was interested in the post by Suffolkmawther who mentions the Togni family from Hammersmith. My mothers Great Aunt Ruby was married to Thomas Togni the ice cream seller. My mother remembers her father Leslie Hill working with Thomas and Charles Forte (hotels ?) Does this ring any bells ? Many thanks
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Hi & welcome mimi1997 :)
Good reading this thread.
Migky ;)
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Thank you :)
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Hi,
I had an Italian uncle from a family of ice cream vendors. His father seemed to move from Lancashire to Yorkshire then Glasgow then back to Yorkshire and possibly even back to Italy in the years between 1909 to 1920.
Does anybody know how WW1 affected the Italians in the UK? Were they treated any differently during the war? Did they enlist? How many of them returned to Italy to fight in the Italian army?
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I cannot comment on what happened during WW1 but if you read posting No 35 on this thread you will find reference to an Italian being interned during WW2. Also if you follow the link that I gave in posting No 46 you will find reference to Mr Riani, an ice cream seller from Houghton le Spring, also being interned during WW2.
Wearsider.
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I had heard about the intern camps during WW2 but it is WW1 that I was interested in. Wikipedia says that thousands of foreign nationals were rounded up, questioned and then most of them were released. I believe that the Italians were included.
I was wondering if he had gone to Glasgow to escape persecution, imprisonment or deportation.
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Hi,
I had an Italian uncle from a family of ice cream vendors. His father seemed to move from Lancashire to Yorkshire then Glasgow then back to Yorkshire and possibly even back to Italy in the years between 1909 to 1920.
Does anybody know how WW1 affected the Italians in the UK? Were they treated any differently during the war? Did they enlist? How many of them returned to Italy to fight in the Italian army?
What was the family name ?
Some were inturned on the isle of man & the channel islands. They were persicuted during both wars some went back to Italy to fight (not through choice others english born italians (born in england of both italian parents) fought in the english army....many lost thier lives(as did many english & irish) names can be see on memorials around england
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Thanks, I had heard that foreigners were made less than welcome during both wars but I was unsure about the Italians during WW1.
I'm afraid that I can't mention the family name on here due to problems with living relatives who are not happy about disturbing the past.
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Thanks, I had heard that foreigners were made less than welcome during both wars but I was unsure about the Italians during WW1.
I'm afraid that I can't mention the family name on here due to problems with living relatives who are not happy about disturbing the past.
You can email me via my website http://www.west-bar-italians.co.uk ....or just google west bar italians
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Manchester Italians Click here for Manchester Italinas (http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/england/manchester/article_1.shtml)
More Italians in Manchester (http://www.alrightposters.com/crolla/victoriancrollas.html)
Migky ;)
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Hello,
I've just found this website by googleing my familys name. i'm an Ambrose living in Manchester England. My Fathers side there was four sisters and four brothers, one brother lives in Australia, one lives in America, and the rest in Manchester, - well apart from my Aunty who lives down south in Devon.
I don't know much about my families history, but what I am told is that my Grandparents parents, (The Ambrose side), were Chocolate makers, I'm not 100% sure if they were in business in Manchester, but that's about as much as I know so far.
I will keep looking into it.
Just wondering if anybody has had more luck than me with tracing back there familys history?
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Hi & welocme.
Nearest to Chocolate maker i could find was a
John Ambrose Confectioner
78 Butler street
Oldham Road Manchester on the 1883 directory.
Migky ;)
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Hi,
Well I am a descendant of John Ambrose the Confectioner. My grandfather always spoke about his Grandfather having the Confectionery shop, he was also an Ice Cream maker.
John Ambrose was married to Sarah Ellison in Prestwich, Manchester 1845, they had these children, John Henry Ambrose b. 1846, James b. 1848, Jonathon b. 1850, William b. 1851, Joseph b. 1855, Sarah Ellen b. 1856, Elizabeth b. 1858 (my G Grandmother) Thomas b. 1862 and Alice b. 1865, all born at Manchester.
Our family migrated to Australia in 1911, i.e. son of Elizabeth Ambrose, John Alfred Collier b. 1880 in Manchester with his family.
I would be interested to hear more on your family names. There is much history on the Ambrose family that originally came from Liverpool area, Bickerstaffe, Ormskirk, Halsall areas.
I have recently met one of the descendants of William Ambrose b. 1851, who lives in Devon.
Maybe we have the same family connection
Regards
jan
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Hi Everone
I am trying to piece together some family history.
My great gandparents were called Edward & Annie Capes, they were Ice cream makers around 1925 in Hull, they had an ice cream shop and three carts that would go around the area selling, this was around the same time that the Penna family was in that area too. My grandad has said that the 'S' was put on the end of the surname when the couple came over from Italy. Annie Capes was also known to have been on a travelling stage with her sisters as a dancer before she had children with Edward (13 children in total).
Any further info would be very much appreciated.
Peggy x
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Hello,
I am revisiting this thread after posting last year. Ive recently been in touch with a cousin who has given me some extra info and Id love to hear from anyone who knows the family or even better, is family:)
Domino Bagnaro, Ice cream vendor born in Naples in 1887 and died in London 1933
Matteo and Raffaela Cavo [they are mis-enumrated on the 1901 census as Molteo and Raffoda.] Matteo had a cafe and provisions shop in Macklin St, near Covent Garden in the late 1900's. They both immigrated to England from Maiori, near Naples.
Im wondering if they were all en route to the US but decided to stop in England.
Roofy
ps the attached photo is Domino/Dominic Bagnaro with three of his children, Michel, Mary and Florence [ninny]
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My Capaldi Ancestors came over from Cassino in the late 1800's to the UK as Musicians.
Looking at records, they spent some time in Edinburgh where there trade seemed to be Confectioners and Restauraters, but in England and Ireland they were Musicians.
Majority of the Italians they were around were Musicians, such Families as:
Tedesco
Salera
Arpino
Caringi
Macari
Colacicco
Di Tommaso
Coletta
D'Agostino
Di Ciacca
Pacitto
Innelli
Risi
Pinchera
Ricci
Rotonda
Tartaglia
Tomasso
Velardo
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just as a ps to my previous message, Dominic was born in Minori, near Naples in about 1867.
thanks
Roofy
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Last Wednesday, 18th May , 'The Northern Echo' published an article 'The Anglo-Italian job' that featured Eddie Rossi an ice cream seller from Darlington.
There is a follow-up article in today's issue of the paper that mentions a number of ice cream sellers in the County Durham area.
Wearsider.
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Dear Wearsider,
how ironic, or do i mean downright blxxdy annoying,:) that i live in the north, have easy access to these papers yet my lot are down south. Oh well, Ill have a read when Im in the library next.
Thanks for letting people know about it,
Roofy
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hello,
is anyone's italian ancestors set up home in the Clerkenwell area??
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I have an update for my Granelli ice cream family.
As mentioned in previous posts, Agostino Granelli was an ice cream seller in Macclesfield in 1911, as per the census. I had been unable to trace his family, and I was told they went back to Italy and then one daughter went to the US.
I have now found a connection to a Mary Granelli who married Arthur Zecchini, a barber, in Ohio USA. Her mother was Margherita Agazzi, who went to visit/stay with her in 1946.
I am wondering if this is familiar to anyone?
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Hi Everone
I am trying to piece together some family history.
My great gandparents were called Edward & Annie Capes, they were Ice cream makers around 1925 in Hull, they had an ice cream shop and three carts that would go around the area selling, this was around the same time that the Penna family was in that area too. My grandad has said that the 'S' was put on the end of the surname when the couple came over from Italy. Annie Capes was also known to have been on a travelling stage with her sisters as a dancer before she had children with Edward (13 children in total).
Any further info would be very much appreciated.
Peggy x
Hi Peggy
Wondered if you#d seen my posting (reply #44 on this thread) re other ice cream sellers in Hull? What was the name your ancestors used in Hull, and do you know when they arrived in the UK, or whereabouts in Italy they came from?
Regards
Paul
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My Capaldi Ancestors came over from Cassino in the late 1800's to the UK as Musicians.
Looking at records, they spent some time in Edinburgh where there trade seemed to be Confectioners and Restauraters, but in England and Ireland they were Musicians.
Majority of the Italians they were around were Musicians, such Families as:
Tedesco
Salera
Arpino
Caringi
Macari
Colacicco
Di Tommaso
Coletta
D'Agostino
Di Ciacca
Pacitto
Innelli
Risi
Pinchera
Ricci
Rotonda
Tartaglia
Tomasso
Velardo
Hi
I recognise several of the names you mention. I quote from an earlier posting of mine on this thread which you may have seen:
"As well as the well-known Italian communities in Holborn and Ancoats, there was a smaller 'Little Italy' in Hull from the 1880s. It was situated in a compact area of tightly-packed terraces and courts known ironically as the 'West End' (it was a far cry from the more famous West End in London). These streets were home to many of the Hull poor as well as Irish and Italian immigrants.
My RISI ancestors came to the UK in early1880s from Cassino and were employed in the usual combination of ice-cream sellers/street musicians. My great grandfather Lorenzo Antonio RISI first turned up in Glasgow in 1881, then in Leeds (1882), before settling in the 'West End' (Hull). He later had workshops in North Street, Hull, in the heart of the Little Italy district, where he made ice cream and repaired and hired out street pianos with his son pasquale Antonio. Pasquale later became a publican, managing the Royal Oak on Spencer St under the anglicised name of Tony RICE, where he employed my grandfather Vincenzo as barman.
Another ice cream manufacturer in the West End of Hull was that of George Pontone based at 58 Spencer Street, Hull. Trade directories of the early 1900s listed several Italian ice-cream businesses in the ‘West End’ area, including Laurence Rice (Risi), Frank Penna, Alfred Bacci, Charles Corodino, George Pontone and George Ladolcetta, all listed as ice-cream makers.
Lorenzo and his wife Geltruda (nee FUSCO) moved to Leeds/Bradford and then to Newcastle upon Tyne in the early 1900s; they died in Newcastle in 1927/1919.
As I've posted on another thread Italy:Immigrants to UK - RISI family there is still a RISI ice-cream business making and selling ice cream in the city."
Do you have any connection with the Risi family?
Regards
Paul
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Hello,
Related very distantly and only through a couple of marriages!
My GGGrandmother's Sister married Salvatore Tomasso. Salvatores Mother's 2nd marriage was with Agostino Risi, born 1858 Cassino. He was a street Musician and later a Fruit Seller/Hawker.
Jamie
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Hi Jamie
Was Salvatore anything to do with the Tomassos of Leeds?
Have you any more info on Agostino Risi?
Paul
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I do not know if he had connections with Leeds, but he had siblings called: Maria Carmela, Antonio, Caterina. His Father was Palmerino. I believe Palmerino had brothers called Domenico and Gaetano.
I will find out more on Agostino Risi.
Cheers!
Jamie
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Hello Paul,
Agostino Risi's Father was called Angelo!
Jamie
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Thanks Jamie. I wonder if they were related to the Newcastle Risi family; an Angelo was a leading light of that branch.
Paul
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Hello Paul, i will send you a private message to let you know my email. Turns out i have the same line as the Risi and Tomasso Families from Leeds and Newcastle, etc.
Cheers Jamie
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Hi Everyone
My grandfather was a Pasquale Tomasso from San Michele near Casino born 1884. He arrived UK early part of 20th century and was in Durham. :) :)He had sisters, Caterina, Benedetta and Francesca, Caterina settled in England and became Mrs C Dent, the other two remained in Italy. His father was Francesco-Antonio and his mother Pasqua Dimambro daughter of Michele Dimambro born 1856.
Tomasso changed to Tomassi after WW1.
Does this tally with any Tomasso's that you may know of?
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My great grandfather was Frank Penna of Penna's Ice Cream. (26 North St, Hull (Est 1896)). He came from Catona, Italy with his wife, Josephine (from Sicilly) to Hull with their son Frank (and later had 4 more sons). I'm currently trying to find their birth dates to track my family tree further back as well as ship records.
There was an article in the Hull Daily Mail, Wed May 8, 1996 to celebrate 100 years of Penna's Ice Cream. Does anyone know if this paper is available online?
I have to say that this was website/forum was an amazing find!! Believe it or not, I thought I'd make some ice cream today and was looking online for a good ice cream recipe!!! Then I just thought I'd search for Penna's ice cream and found this!!! Meant to be. :)
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Hi Cazza...It might be worth posting a query on here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,135.0.html
If you include the surname in the title of your post...other researchers of the penna line and related families it will bring them here...as it do for you.
Good Luck!
Carol
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Hi CazzaB
As far as I am aware the Hull Daily Mail for that date is not online. The British Newspaper Archive has HDM online only up to 1950 at the moment, though they seem to be adding new pages from time to time. The paper should be available on microfiche at the Hull History Centre. If you live locally to Hull it would be worth checking with them. :)
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Hi I am also related being the son of ouis George Nicholas Togni who was the son of Louis Robert Togni who I think was the sister of Rose?
I live in Somerset UK. Would be interested to know any info you have on the family I am happy to send you mine as well
They were based as Togni Ice Ltd in Hammersmith moving to Isleworth/Brentford Middlesex sometime after the 2nd war.
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Welcome to Rootschat cardpos ;D
Unfortunately my dad passed away in 2010, but he could remember playing with the Togni boys.
He often referred to 'Doi-doi' and 'Troddon', which I think were the 'anglicised versions' of the boys names as the local boys were unable to say the names properly.
Try as I may, I cannot work out what they are supposed to be ::)
My dad's family moved from Hammersmith to Barnes in the 1930s.
Pat ...
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I cannot think what Doi doi and Trodden could be. How old was your dad when he died. My grandfather was Louis Robert and his brother was Oliver. There was also a sister named Kate (married surname Chipps)
If I think of anything I will let you know
Bill
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The Risi ices of Newcastle and Julians ices (giulio) of Newcastle are my family. Julian was my great grandad and Mary (maria) Risi his wife left a legacy of ice cream vendors and makers. Anyone with more info ???
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Hi Lisa and welcome to Rootschat...Have you seen this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/content/articles/2008/05/08/risis_ices_feature.shtml
Carol
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and this:
http://www.ancoatslittleitaly.com/messageboard16.htm
Carol
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Wow that is great!! If im right that must be my great grandmother's brother and his family. Just amazing what you find. I thank you so much for sharing that.
Im new to genealogy and find this so interesting and though hard it is very rewarding whrn gems like this come along x
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Just read the second post! Thank you very for your help!
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My pleasure Lisa...If you have any birth/death dates for your relatives perhaps more can be learned of your Ice Cream seller relatives and their lives in the UK.
Carol
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Here's more Risi Family information here for you:
http://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/italian-genealogy/7364
Carol
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I am trying to find information on my 3rd Gt Grandfather Bennett Tazzar and his Wife Ann Thomson's ice cream business in Glasgow where he owned a shop from the 1870's to 1890's. Would anyone know the best place or what records I need to look at to try and find this information. Any help would be appreciated.
Rob
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Hi Rob and welcome to Rootschat...You might be better off posting your query here for more local knowledge from those who subscribe to Scotland's People:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?board=102.0
Carol
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Hi Rob
try here, it's the Glasgow PO Directories, he should be listed in it.
http://digital.nls.uk/directories/browse/pageturner.cfm?id=91168983
Davie
ps, just leaving for Dalbeth, photos will follow later today
D
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Here's my little insight into The Italians coming over to Morecambe I'm unsure of the exact dates atm but I do know Stephen settled here in the late nineteenth century and of what interest it will be to any-one else I don't know but I thought I would share what I know up to now including pictures :..... Each photo has a story to it too, what connection does it have to Overton you may ask but we have always lived in Overton and Middleton ..... I'm constantly searching for any new information so if you have some please do share xx
Stephen Ginocchio my great, great, great Grandfather whom came from genoa was a well known musician in Lancaster,The Ginocchio's were the first family to bring ice cream to lancaster .The 4 main lancaster italian families to arrive in Morecambe are the Ginocchio's ,Macaris,Brucianiani's and the Rastellis... The Ginocchio's taught the macaris the ice cream trade which is still running with the macaris family now .
Stephen Ginocchio born 1873 is chris costellos ( on my freinds list) nannas great uncle or greatgrand father,my dad ian (i think its my dad) is chris Costellos Nannas cousin his Nannas uncle was called mark and either seraphine domonics son or Anthony's , chris's great grandmother was called Annie ( Marks sister) and was from lancaster,, she was one of 13 children but some died and she was fathered by either Domonic or Anthony .
Acccording to what im reading Ginocchio actually pronounced Ginoc ch io is a common surname for people from the Liguria region of italy . Translated into english it means knee and takes it's name from the shape of the coastline.
Here is a list of dates and records of deaths and births I know of
Stephen Ginocchio b 1849 Genoa died 1919 in Lancaster .Children Seraphine Domonic born 1873 Preston died Preston 1912 Chorlton ,Anthony born 1874 Haslington, Benetta born 1877 Haslington,Jacob born 1879, Angilina born 1881 xx
if you haven't got bored and are still reading Anthony Ginocchio's role astounded me the most he was a knocker upper and still to this day our nick names are knocker , big knocker , lil knocker etc I always wondered where that nickname came from
The pictures may not be in the correct order sorry. and I have 1 or 2 pictures I couldn't attach as the site wouldn't allow me to :(
.
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Thanks for sparing the time to post the list of musicians.
I recognise all but one surname name - yes, musicians were much enjoyed by the majority in Cumbria / Cumberland - North Lancashire, where they paid to hear a tune. I have details of how much they earned, and it was good money - today we buy a CD to enjoy at home, back then an organ grinder often with a monkey would entertain.
They became so numerous by the early 1900s that laws came into force to curtail their numbers.
Sadly, many were abused including an expectant Italian girl who was assisting but was kicked in her stomach in Keswick by an ungrateful person (the story got into the papers - I have many thousands of stories in our archive).
In Scotland they were not permitted at any time and so no organ grinders appeared in Dumfries & Galloway.
Many thanks - Paul
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Hi Ginocchio - just done some searches on your Ginocchio & Cummings surnames but sadly I don't have anything on either. (Also included my Edinburgh Mount Vernon cemetery work just in case).
My area covers "today's" Cumbria & Dumfries & Galloway.
Wonderful photos and fascinating musical background too.
It always amazes me how often our families from the past moved around the country looking for a niche market for whatever they were doing.
Kind regards - Paul
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I remember Penna's Ice cream from when I was a child:
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/pearson-park-caf-change-say-frank-anne-penna-45/story-21643424-detail/story.html
Carol
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Enjoyed the photos, my wifes father came from Lancaster, and he had a tenuous relation to the Ginnochio family, Anthony b. 1874, m. 1894, Mary Ann Muckelt, b. 1875, Bradford , her father William Muckelt b. 1848 Lancaster d.1875 Skipton was the first of three husbands who married Isabella Parkinson b. 1850 d.1913 Lancaster, she was the grandmother of my father in law. I have more info and if anyone would like to cross check and compare notes, it is always nice to corroborate .
bodger
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Have been trying to trace my Grandmothers family for many years and have now Established her Uncle Donald Marshall Lodged with a Gregorio Bacigalupo in 1871 in Portsmouth. Gregorio was a Licenced Victualler from Italy. Now seeing this link with Street Musicians I can see the Connection as Donald was one. He was born in Liverpool in 1847 and went on to Eventually set up the Royal Osbourne Minstrels in the Isle of Wight in 1879 and continued until around 1892/3 It appears Joe Morley the Banjo player was part of the group. Donald lived on the Island from then until his death on 27 December 1919 at the age of 72. He had 10 children., 9 boys and one girl with Mary Jane Pilcher who came from COWES
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Hi, First post.
I am also interested in some of the Family names mentioned. Especially Tartaglia and their story,
I have gathered a lot of information on Tartag`s Gloucestershire but still looking for more.
If you/ anyone can get in touch
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Hi, Jamie
New to this site I don't know why its taken me so long to find it, we have been in contact before.
Have you changed your phone number?.
Can update you on Tartaglia`s of Gloucester/Cheltenham.
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Thanks for sparing the time to post the list of musicians.
I recognise all but one surname name - yes, musicians were much enjoyed by the majority in Cumbria / Cumberland - North Lancashire, where they paid to hear a tune. I have details of how much they earned, and it was good money - today we buy a CD to enjoy at home, back then an organ grinder often with a monkey would entertain.
They became so numerous by the early 1900s that laws came into force to curtail their numbers.
Sadly, many were abused including an expectant Italian girl who was assisting but was kicked in her stomach in Keswick by an ungrateful person (the story got into the papers - I have many thousands of stories in our archive).
In Scotland they were not permitted at any time and so no organ grinders appeared in Dumfries & Galloway.
Many thanks - Paul
Hi Paulo
i think your project is amazing.
In the course of your research have you come across the name Dominico Bonino? He was my gx3 grandfather. He was initially a figure maker in Dublin in the 1850a but ended up as an ice cream man in Glasgow and Greenock in the 1870s-1890s. He probably hailed from Chiavari in Liguria. Arrived in Socer in 1842.
My other great x 3 grandfather was Jacapo Basquale Cheverini. He lived in Dublin and Belfast and was a street musician. I have a hunch that Cheverini - surely an adaptation from Chiavarini - was an adopted name that might also be a clue to his place of origin. This is a story about him from Belfast....
Dan
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My Capaldi Ancestors came over from Cassino in the late 1800's to the UK as Musicians.
Looking at records, they spent some time in Edinburgh where there trade seemed to be Confectioners and Restauraters, but in England and Ireland they were Musicians.
Majority of the Italians they were around were Musicians, such Families as:
Tedesco
Salera
Arpino
Caringi
Macari
Colacicco
Di Tommaso
Coletta
D'Agostino
Di Ciacca
Pacitto
Innelli
Risi
Pinchera
Ricci
Rotonda
Tartaglia
Tomasso
Velardo
Hi
If you look at the 1881 census the Pacittos, Mandarolas and three Capaldi brothers were all staying at the same boarding house in Bordesley Rd Birmingham. They all came from Frosinone region and there were various marriages between the families.
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Interest in any information to John Valente born 1875 married i believe Margaret Taylor 1876 in 1911 maybe under johann Valente
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Interest in any information to John Valente born 1875 married i believe Margaret Taylor 1876 in 1911 maybe under johann Valente
New thread about John Valente & family by Michael.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=861818
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"Manchester's Little Italy and the Pioneers of Britain's Ice Cream Industry" by Eve Henley, article on Manchester Historian website, 22nd April 2022.
https://manchesterhistorian.com/tag/little-italy/
Manchester's Ancoats Little Italy, website by Anthony Rea. Has a section on ice cream families.
www.ancoatslittleitaly.com
"I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream" about Manchester's "Little Italy" in topic "Immigration and Emigration" on an archived BBC education website. Has links to other sources.
https://www.bbc.co.uk
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any info on
John or Johann and Giovanni Valente born italy 1875 died manchester 1945 address as 2 annesley road moston 1945 and 89 Jersey Street and 135 Jersey Street 1911 and 39 Cheetham Street chorlton 1939
Margaret or Annie Valente maiden name taylor born 1886 dont know where but address in 1911 is 135 Jersey Street Ancoats and 1939 and 39 Cheetham Street Cholton 1939
children are John Valente 1910 dead 1910
Joseph Valente 1919 married Thousdale ?
Teresa Valente married a Mcviegh
Margaret Valente married a Pridding
Kathleen Valente married a Hodson
Mary Valente married Harold Ellis 1939
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any info on
John or Johann and Giovanni Valente born italy 1875 died manchester 1945 address as 2 annesley road moston 1945 and 89 Jersey Street and 135 Jersey Street 1911 and 39 Cheetham Street chorlton 1939
Margaret or Annie Valente maiden name taylor born 1886 dont know where but address in 1911 is 135 Jersey Street Ancoats and 1939 and 39 Cheetham Street Cholton 1939
See reply #134 for link to Michael's topic about this Valente family.
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Hi
I know this is in 2 threads but i am hoping that some other can help ....
I have a john Valente I believe was born Giovanni Valente 22 Feb 1875 as recorded in the 1939 register where the john is crossed and Gioranni is there instead traced to 39 Cheetham Street Chorlton
I have his Marriage Certificate and this was under Johann Valente at 135 Jersey Street Ancoats in the 1911 census but his address on the marriage cert is 89 Jersey Street moving to 135 Jersey Street with a annie not Margaret
His Father is listed as Honorio is there another name they use and his father was listed as deceased by 1911 and a farmer Labour looking for any links or website to help trace this person
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Incidentally, living with the Brissolaris and their four chldren (here spelled Bripalari)
Gill
So, thanks for that.
Having searched on my mother's side on Ancestry.org and learning I was related to a 'Lewis Brissalari' which has been miss-spelt in a lot of documents as brissolaris, I saw Bripalari appear and wasn't sure if it was also a miss-spelling.
Lewis, or Luigi, or Ludovici Brissolari was likely my great, great grandfather - before taking a partner in Jane Brissalari, likely Jane Maile from Huntingdonshire.
We had no information on my mother's side of the family, really. Having the DNA test and then linking to people who had these persons in their family trees and then being able to connect the dots from seeing the various miss-spellings and thanks to forum posts like these really joins the likeliness of it together.