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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: toby webb on Monday 09 April 07 12:20 BST (UK)
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I would be very pleased to hear if anyone has information on this family who were pawnbrokers there in 1881 census.
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What sort of info are you looking for?
Which Siedle family is it?
There is one at 21 Oystermouth Road with several children and another at 2 Nelson, who are probably related but came to Wales later. Both heads are pawnbrokers. Family in Oystermouth Rd have been in Wales at least 22 years according to birthplace of children.
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Oystermouth Road it is. I was wondering if there are any current descendants in South Wales.
Thanks for your interest.
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can't help you with present day, but it looks as if some of the sons went on to be photographers. I found a few references online - studios in Cardiff, Newport and Swansea. 1910 - Heathfield St, Swansea and 1920 Uplands, Swansea. There's also a reference to a photograph of Adelina Patti taken by Siedle Bros in 1891 being auctioned at Sotheby's New York in 1997!
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Charles Siedle is enumerated as a photographer in 1891 and 1901 in Swansea. In 1901 he's living at 138 Walter Rd, next door to the possibly related Adolph, the pawnbroker of Nelson St from 1881. They both must have been doing nicely for themselves.
Charles' brother Adolph is a photographer in Newport, Mon in 1901.
http://www.historicopera.com/jearly_other_page1.htm
photo 19 on this page is one of theirs.
Their sister Matilda is listed as a sculptor in 1891 but I can't spot her after that - there can't have been many female sculptors around at that time. What an interesting family!
:D
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Thank you Osprey for your comments and data. The photographic side is known to me but not the Adelina Patti or Matilda details. Somehow the family disappeared. Perhaps, in due course, the 1911 censuses etc. will reveal something.
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have you tried trade directories?
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/
though this site has a tendency to fall over.
Swansea library might have some old trade directories and they do have some old electoral registers as well.
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=397
http://www.swansea.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=2237
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I find trade directories vary a great deal in what they tell but the electoral registers are worth a go. Thanks.
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Hi
Have a look at Cambrian on line at
http://www2.swansea.gov.uk/_info/cambrian/
There are 27 articles about the Siedle family including birth & death notices.
Fisherman
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Hi,
You don't say in your profile where you are living, but if you are away from Swansea and find anything relevant in the Cambrian index I would be happy to go to the library and do the look-ups for you, if you post the details on here.
Bev.
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can give you Matilda's marriage ref now
june qtr 1891 Swansea vol 11a pg 1282
I didn't allow for her being Mathilda
:-[
She's also in Walter Road in 1901 Rg13/5076 folio 98 pg 4 with her husband John Edward Thomas(pharmacist) and son John E T Thomas age 7. Don't envy you trying to trace them!
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Fisherman. Many thanks for the Cambrian advice. I have gleaned bits & pieces
Bevbee. I am up in the Smoke. For many years I worked one day a fortnight in the Swansea area but hadn't the time to do genealogy. Now I am retired I never go to Swansea so I might sometime be very glad of your offer. Many thanks for making it.
Osprey. Edward Siedle married the half sister of my great grandfather so you will appreciate that a Siedle investigation was a bit of a diversion. I am not about to tackle a Thomas branch so you need have no fears for my sanity.
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I don't know whether anyone's still searching for the SIEDLE family in Swansea, but having seen a Siedle Bros photograph (CdV) for sale on ebay earlier this evening, I tried to discover more about Siedle Bros, and noted two items in particular which may be of interest.
The first item related to an entry in THE EDINBURGH GAZETTE, JULY 4, 1911 (q.v. http://www.edinburgh-gazette.co.uk/issues/12369/pages/669/page.pdf) in which mention is made of "Charles Frederick Siedle (trading under the style of Siedle Bros.), 60 Walter Road, Swansea, and 13 Heathfield Street, Swansea, in the county of Glamorgan, photographer", whilst the other item is an excerpt from "Minerva - Vol. 14 2006, The history and influence of Swansea's Jewish community, 1730-2006 : the Treasure Act and Portable Antiquities Legislation" (see http://welshjournals.llgc.org.uk/browse/viewpage/llgc-id:1225327/llgc-id:1226301/llgc-id:1226334/getText) in which mention is made of photographers (Siedle Bros.), in the context of "It is interesting at this time to study the occupations of Swansea's Jewish community" and "For example, in Wright's Swansea and Llanelly Directory of 1889-90, the occupations included H. Goldberg and Co. ship and insurance brokers. To have risen to these heights in trade was the exception rather than the rule in Swansea society in general, let alone among a group which had so recently arrived in Britain. The majority of Jews, however, continued the more traditional trades such as cabinet makers (William Michael), clothes dealers (Nathan Lewis), clothiers and outfitters (Abram Freedman), furniture brokers (Israel Bloom), painters (Max Mendelssohn), glaziers and decorators (Barnett Freedman), picture dealers (B. Shatz), photographers (Siedle Bros.), watch and clockmakers and jewellers (Wearbart Kaltenbach)"
That therefore Charles Frederick Siedle was a member of Swansea' Jewish community, may allow the original enquirer to gain more information from that quarter, as well as to identify both where the Siedles' originated before settling in Swansea, and whether there may have been a change (spelling-wise) of surname in the post-1920 period.
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Thank you Calgari for your contribution. By chance I have a Siedle trade photo of my wife's family.
Best wishes, Toby Webb.
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In a 1913 Swansea Directory Mr E.H. Siedle is listed as Chairman of the Poor Law Guardians.
Bernard
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Bernard,
Thank you for that extra bit of information. It all helps to paint the picture. I shall look at your web site for a bit more.
Regards, Toby.
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Toby - there is nothing on my website on the Siedle's (as far as I know!) I noticed it in a directory that I was looking at for some pre-WWI stuff.
I think I am right in saying that at that time the Guardians of the Poor were elected (though it was a role that was a little unattractive to some as it involved dealing with 'paupers', the workhouse etc. In the 1830s/40s etc. the people elected tended to be the better off in the community. Less so in the late 19th century and beyond.
Having said that the chairman would usually (I think) be elected by his fellow guardians so was a bit of a primus inter pares.
Bernard
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I am sure you are right about better off as the Siedle family were also into pawnbroking.
Toby.