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Independent Islands => Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark => Channel Islands Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Yoz on Thursday 09 December 04 00:27 GMT (UK)

Title: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Yoz on Thursday 09 December 04 00:27 GMT (UK)
Apologies for the repeat but posted on the wrong board in reply to Scatty....

I have been looking into a link for some time and just found a small breakthrough, wonder if you can add anything to it please?

1881 census
Philip MESNEY     Head    M    Male    51    Alderney, Guernsey, Channel Islands    Magistrate & General Agent   
and family......
Huret Street, St Anne, Guernsey

could be related by marriage to a Barbenson family who were lawyers of Alderney.

Philip's son Giffard DeJersey Mesny born 1871 Alderney married in Leeds, Yorkshire in 1894 but may have still been home in 1891. I am trying to solve the puzzle of why Giffard and his wife Emmaline Charlesworth were absent from Yorkshire it seems in 1901. Two of their small children were with grandfather Edmondson Charlesworth in Bradford 1901.

The eldest grandchild, Stanley De Jersey Mesny was born in Alderney in 1895 so they must have flitted back and forth and were wealthy enough to do it.


so any help with any census would be great if you could please?

Many thanks,
Sue.
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Nicky on Thursday 09 December 04 17:23 GMT (UK)
1871 census

Philip Mesny, head, age 41,magistrate born Alderney
Margaret S Mesny, wife, age 39 born Guernsey
Peter S Mesny,son, age 12 ,scholar born Alderney
Philip De ? Mesny, son, age 9, scholar born Alderney
Arthur B Mesny, son, age 6,scholar born Alderney
Stephen Mesny, son, age 5, scholar born Alderney
Henry Mesny, son, age 3 born Alderney
Giffard De J Mesny, son, age 1 born Alderney

they also had two servants

Civil parish:    St Ann 
Town:    St Ann 
County/Island:    Alderney 
Country:    Channel Islands 
   
Source information:    RG10/5770
Registration district:    Alderney And Sark 
Sub-registration district:    A 
ED, institution, or vessel:    4 
Folio:    39 
Page:    13
Household schedule number:    63

I will look on 1891 for the family

Nicky


Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Nicky on Thursday 09 December 04 17:40 GMT (UK)
Sorry cant seem to see them in 1891

Nicky
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Yoz on Saturday 11 December 04 20:08 GMT (UK)
Nicky, Thank you very much for your help, well travelled people that's for sure...will stick at it and see what else I can find...thanks again...

Sue
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: scatty on Tuesday 14 December 04 11:08 GMT (UK)
Hello Yoz,

As promised I spent  this morning  at our archive centre looking for your Mesneys.

Firstly, no entries for Giffard and Emmaline on 1901 C. I. census on any of the islands so not on holiday here, may have been abroad  travelling?

1891 sees family still living at Huret St

Margaret  S now a widow age 59
Stephen  O,son age 25
Henry W G son age 23 student of theology
Philip Giffard , brother-in-law age 56 accountant
Lydia Giffard, sister-in law age 58

and a servant Aline Freemont age 15

There does seem to be a connection to the Barbensons  and I have printouts  of both Mesney and Barbenson census entries for 1891. If you would like me to post these to you by snail mail just p.m your  address if you are happy to do so.

Best Wishes
Scatty



 
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Yoz on Thursday 30 December 04 23:38 GMT (UK)
Hi Scatty,
My apologies for not replying sooner, christmas with 4 children and in laws, you know how it is.

Many, many thanks for undertaking that look up for me, I much appreciate it.

They must forever remain a mystery in 1901,sigh!!!
How do I pm?

Sue
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Jeye on Wednesday 19 April 06 01:05 BST (UK)
I have been researching a branch of my family tree and came across these posts relating to Margaret S Mesny (or Mesney).

On the Stephens’ gravestone in the graveyard of St Nicholas’, Carrickfergus, County Antrim, there is recorded “Margaret Mesney died 2nd July 1901 aged 66 years, interred at New York, U.S.A.” Margaret was the daughter of Stratford Stephens and Margaret Bryson, and was the sister of my great-grandmother. In the New York City index of deaths is recorded the death of “Mesney, Marg’t S, on 2 July 1901 age 60y”. Despite the wrong age I think this must be the same person. We did not know before that her middle initial was “S”. I presume it stands for Stratford, after her father.

We are fairly certain that she had three children, Mary born in 1862, Stratford born in 1864 and Joseph  born in 1866. All births were registered in West Derby, Lancashire. Family tradition has it her husband, a seafarer from the Channel Islands, was killed in an affray on a Chinese waterfront. I have been able to trace the death of a John Mesny in Hankow and I wonder if this was he. If it was he was the brother of the famous William Mesny of China and it seems he had another family out there.

I have a copy of the 1891 Census report for 44 Huret Street (“Huret House”) in St Ann’s where there is a Margaret S Mesny, age 59, widow, with sons Stephen O Mesney aged 25 and Henry WG aged 23. I note from your postings regarding the censuses for 1871 and 1881, that this Margaret’s husband was Philip. I think almost certainly this was a second Margaret S Mesney with a date of birth of 1832, and not ours with a date of birth about 1835. There are no other Margaret S Mesn(e)ys listed in the 1891 Census although there are two other Margarets, one aged 7 and one 42, both from Aylsham, presumably mother and daughter.

I found records of four Mesneys landing at Ellis Island in 1892, a Stephen Mesney (age 27) on 30 September 1892 from Liverpool on the Gallia; a M S Mesnay (female age 40) on 16 November 1892 from Liverpool on the City of Paris; and two other Mesneys also on 16 November 1892 on the City of Paris - a male age 39 and a female age 18.

With regard to the emigrants at Ellis Island, it must be that the three arriving together on the same ship were the same family, and it is certainly possible, and perhaps likely, that the Stephen who arrived a month or two earlier was also related. However, I cannot fit these people with either my Mesney’s or yours although the Stephen fits roughly with yours (date of birth around 1866). Perhaps there was some transcription error and perhaps M S Mesney’s age was really 60 instead of 40. If so that would support her being your Margaret.

If you had any more information about a Mesney/Stephens marriage I would be interested to hear of it.

Regards

John
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Jeye on Wednesday 19 April 06 16:47 BST (UK)
A search of the Mormon site (Church of the Latter Day Saints) has forced a re-think. The previous posts and the 1891 census give Margaret Mesny's middle initial as "S" - hence my interest (see previous post). However, the LDS site, in its report of the 1881 census, gives her middle name as Lercone. I presume that whoever was responsible for copying the household's information onto the main ledger confused the L for an S. It is possible that the LDS site confused it the other way round and that her name really was Sercone but that seems very unlikely (there are Sercones but it appears to be an Italian name).


I think that you may well be looking for a Margaret L Mesney, and the Mesney's who emigrated to the USA in 1892 were almost certainly ours.

Regards

John
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Huentetu on Wednesday 28 June 06 17:42 BST (UK)
The John Mesny, brother of William Mesny, mentioned was my Great-grandfather. He was born in Alderney in 1844 and died in Hankow in 1884, aged 39, while in the employ of the Imperial Maritime Customs. There was a sister Mary Ann who married and emigrated to Canada. Both Mesny brothers died in China. Just so no one goes down the wrong branch looking for someone!
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Yoz on Monday 08 January 07 14:58 GMT (UK)
Dear Jeye,
I am back on the trail of the Mesny and related families and arrived back here, I cannot recall if I ever discussed your message with you or missed it completely, if so I sincerely apologise.
There has been one or two developments since April, would you like to discuss them with me?

Regards,
Sue
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: J.J. on Saturday 03 February 07 20:00 GMT (UK)
Your Gifford is in the U.S... another rootschat query...J.J.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,207220.msg1058826.html#msg1058826
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,206229.0.html
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Yoz on Sunday 04 February 07 13:20 GMT (UK)
Thanks J.J That was my co researcher Peter trying to glean some further information. The US board was quite helpful.

Cheers,
Sue
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Jeye on Saturday 19 April 08 03:01 BST (UK)
Dear Sue

Very many apologies for not looking at this site for 1+ years. Things are clearer. My gg-aunt Margaret S Stephens married a William Michael Locke Mesney. We are pretty sure he was the son of William and Mary Mesney (nee Locke) who married on 2 August 1827 in Wyke Regis, Dorset. William senior was employed by the coastguard service to crew their vessels and he was mate and then master of the coastguard cutter stationed in Carrickfergus from the mid 1840s to 1862 approx. A Robert Locke Mesney born in Westport, Co Mayo, in 1841 was his brother and we presume the Mesney family was stationed there at the time.

William ML Mesney died in 1884 in Bootle, England. We think that after her death our Margaret Mesney went to Alderney to her husband's relatives. Her daughter visited the island about 1908 and when she was being helped down the gangplank the harbour master said to her "If I didn’t know that it was impossible I [would have] thought you were Maggie Mesney". She took a photograph of the Mesney house in Huret St and wrote a note on the back to say that she would have called if they had been poor but because they owned half the island she did not intrude. If she had only rapped the door we would know if Margaret Serane Mesney was still living.

Philip Mesney (1830 – c1890) is recorded in the 1841 census at Huret Street aged 11. His parents were Peter Mesney, age 35 and of independent means, and Mary, age 40, also of independent means. He had two sisters, Harriet, age 10, and Lydia, age 8. On the night of the 1861 census he and a son,  John B Mesney, age 4, were boarding in St Peter Port, Guernsey. He was married and occupation was magistrate of Alderney. Subsequent censuses also record him as a magistrate, and in 1881 he was additionally described as a general dealer.

Margaret Serane Mesney (1832 – ) was born in St Peter’s Port, Guernsey. Her father was Pierre Serane Barbenson and her mother Susanne de Quetteville. She appears in the 1861 and 1871 censuses as wife, and in the 1891 census as widow. She is not in the 1901 census and no Mesney is recorded in Huret Street but there are two blank entries for Huret Street on the census website so the house might simply have been empty that night or she might have died. She is known to have had eight children: John Barbenson Mesney, Peter S Mesney, Philip de Q Mesney, Arthur BLP Mesney, Stephen O Mesney, Henry WG Mesney, Giffard de J Mesney, and Margaret Barbenson Mesney.

There was a Pedro Serane Mesney, a clergyman. I wondered if he really was Peter S Mesney.

The 1841 census records a Michael (b1776) and Sarah Mesney (b1781) in Braye St. He had retired from the Revenue Service and this made me wonder if he might be the father of our Michael senior. I also wondered if he might be the father of Peter Mesney hence making Philip and Michael ML first cousins and explaining why they took our Margaret Mesney in. I have no actual evidence that these were the correct Mesney relatives. Philip's death before 1890 might well explain why our Margaret Mesney emigrated to the USA as we know from her death certificate that she entered the country about 1890.

With best wishes

Jeye
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Yoz on Sunday 20 April 08 10:25 BST (UK)
Hello Jeye,
That's no problem, we all have busy lives but the family history just goes on.

OK, regarding Phillip Mesny in 1841.
I am confused over his parentage as in 1851, the children are listed as nieces and nephew to Peter and Mary , not their own children. Mary is listed as Peter's sister in law and a widow.

So, I still don't know who the father of Phillip, Harriet and Lydia were.

I could'nt find the 1861 census entry, how is the surname spelt please?

I still cannot see any definite connections between the 'China' Mesny's and mine unfortunately, so does that mean there's no connection to yours or have we just not found it yet?

Any idea who the relatives in Alderney were of your Margaret S?

I've just found this Jeye, sorry if you already have it, talk about confusing things, there is a slight similarity between the Irish and Scouse accent I suppose...haha! I was hoping the entry might have mentioned family members but no show I'm afraid.

Marriage of Mary Locke Stephens Mesney and John Frederick Fleetcroft, 1889, Liverpool.

1891 census - Old shop, The Village, Heswall, Cheshire
John F. Fleetcroft, h, m, 25, ????, Grisford, Wales, Denbighshire
Mary L.S., wife, 26, Carrickmacross, Ireland
John S, son, 1, Shipley, Yorkshire

A John Stratford Fleetcroft was born in 1890, Bradford, Yorkshire

Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Jeye on Sunday 20 April 08 20:45 BST (UK)
Hi Sue

The 1841 census showed Peter, Mary, Philip, Harriet and Lydia Mesny all in the same household in Huret St. I assumed that they were parents and family. That census, of course, did not record relationships. The "1901 Census" site also allows a search of the 1851 census. It could not find a Peter or Philip Mesny/Mesney - I may not be using it correctly.

I have a database of the Mesn(e)ys in 1841, 61, 71, 81, 91 (and am adding 1901), and I am getting individuals and families sorted out. Margaret S is recorded as Mesny in 1861, 71 and 91 but as Mesney in 1881.

The only clue that we have as to our Alderney relatives is that Mary Locke Stephens Mesney photographed the house in Huret St where she believed her mother's in-laws lived, and this, I am pretty certain, is Huret House (now the Rose and Crown Hotel) where Philip and Margaret and their family lived. Therefore I presume our original Michael Mesney (who married Mary Lock) was related in some way to Philip and Margaret.

I know about the Fleetcrofts - I think he was a chemist. Mary Locke Stephens Mesney's birth was registered in Bootle but only some months after she was born and her birth place is given in at least one later census as Carrickfergus (not Carrickmacross).

Regards

Jeye
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Jeye on Sunday 20 April 08 22:11 BST (UK)
Hi Sue

Found Margaret S Mesney in the 1901 census. She is listed as Mrs Philip Mesney, widow, age 69, born in Guernsey, and this has been incorrectly transcribed in the online files as Thos Philip Mesney. She was in the Rectory, Little Bromley with Pedro S Mesney, her son, who was the curate. Someone has written "Margaret S" in a different hand beside her entry.

This confirms firstly that Peter S Mesney and Pedro S Mesney are one and the same person; and secondly, because the letter I mentioned previously says that Mary Locke Stephens Mesney knew about Pedro Mesney and Philip Mesney and spoke to Philip in 1908/10 (this would be Philip de Q), I think it confirms that our Michael Mesney was related to Philip and Margaret.

Regards

Jeye
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Jeye on Thursday 22 May 08 13:33 BST (UK)
Hi Sue

Peter from the Channel Islands Genealogy site sent me details of the 1851 census and I see that Mary Mesney, widow, was the mother of Philip, Harriet and Lydia, and the sister in law of Peter Mesney, unmarried.

Mrs Eileen Mignot of Alderney Family History has the Mesney family history going back to 1604. The Mary Mesney above (nee Pezet) was married on 28/9/1826 to Jean/John Mesney born 7/4/1802. His brother was Pierre/Peter Mesney (as above) who was born on 6/9/1804.

Philip, Harriet and Lydia Mesney would have been third cousins of William Michael Locke Mesney and also of William and John Mesney of China.

Regards

Jeye
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: dmenace on Tuesday 11 November 08 07:43 GMT (UK)
I think I have information as to the Philip Mesny family line.  I think I can clarify the "q" in Philip de "q".  Please e-mail me if you want more info.
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: KatG on Tuesday 28 August 12 06:37 BST (UK)
Philip DeQ Mesny is my great great grandfather.  He married Emma Mary Tully.  They had two children named Reginald Barbenson Mesny who is my great grandfather and Dorthea Mesny.  Reginald(Rex) Mesny is my great grandfather.  He had married 4x.  I do know for a fact until I have further proof that he married illegally two times after my great grandmother Betty Blake.  Rex and Betty Mesny had two children Mary Elizabeth (my grandmother) and Philip R. Mesny.  Dorthea Mesny never married but became a lawyer in L.A. which is unheard of for a female lawyer back in those days.  Mary E. Mesny married Donald I. Prickett and they had three children (all alive) Philip R. Mesny married Dorothy J. Yarbrough. 

I hope this is helpful.  I have been researching the Mesny.  If you have any questions, please ask away!
KatG
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: Yoz on Wednesday 12 April 17 04:32 BST (UK)
Hi, Are you still researching Kat?

Have you found out anything new? I have recently begun research again myself but not much further on regarding Giffard Mesny, I've no idea where he might have died or been buried.

Sue
Title: Re: 1871 and 1891 census, Alderney - name: MESNY
Post by: mrnz2014 on Tuesday 17 September 19 05:53 BST (UK)
Hello Sue

My name is Ian Martyn, founder and director of Medals Reunited New Zealand, a FREE voluntary service dedicated to reuniting war medals that have been found, with descendant families of the recipient.

I was recently sent a WW1 medal, the 1914-15 Star, named to Stephen O. MESNY, son of Phillip and Margaret S. MESNEY.  Stephen served as a Private in the Royal Army Medical Corps in France before becoming ill.  He was then transferred to the Royal Engineers (Sapper) and employed until 1917 in the Railway Transport Workshops repairing railway trucks.

I am is to get this medal to a near descendant of Stephen MESNY.  There are no fees or charges for my service - I meet any costs related to postage etc.

I would be most appreciative of your guidance in this matter.  Further information regarding my work can be seen on my website.

Please feel free to email your reply as it is easier to use than this link.

Kind regards,

Ian

I. D. Martyn
[Maj. Rtd, NZ Army]
Medals Reunited New Zealand©
PO Box 8034
Nelson Mail Centre
Nelson 7042
NEW ZEALAND

M: +64-27-940-4495
T:  +64-3-546-7728
E: medalsreunitednz@gmail.com
W: www.medalsreunitednz.co.nz
FB: facebook.com/medalmanz