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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: laterunner on Friday 06 July 07 12:29 BST (UK)
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(This is mainly part of a letter from Kate probably my great aunt-sister to my grandfather John Armstrong Alexander.)
Written from 47 Tavistock St. Bedford. 6/7/1900 To Alice.
(( )) = My additions
Capt. Thomas Armstrong (Am) supposed to be a younger brother of Sir Thomas Am. (Judge Jeffries victim) settled in Tipperary, at the old Castle of Farney Bridge, near Thurles, Co.Tipperary.(Tipp.) soon after the battle of Worchester (some say in 1660) He was a Capt. Of a troop of horse attached to the Tipperary Militia in 1688.
He married Alice dr.of Sir Thomas Deane of Clare Co. Suffolk.
His eldest son John married (M) Julianna, dr, of Robert Carew Esq. of Ballyboro Co. Wexford, (( Born 1640? D. 1706/7))
from him came the A’s of Mount Heaton King’s County, now represented by Mr. Macdonnell Am. Co. Clare.
Capt.Thomas Am’s 2nd son, Thomas, B. (1671) of Meanliffe (now Moyaliff, Co. Tipp., M. Mary dr. of Robert Carew Esq of Ballinamona Co. Wexford;
he had 7 sons & 6 drs., from his eldest son came the Am’s
of Meanliffe Hall, Thurles Co. Tipp. Thomas Am. was High Sheriff of Tipp. In the reign of Queen Anne (( 1702- 1714)) He died in 1747. One of his sons must ((???)) have been the
Rev. Robert Carew Am. ((B. 1709?)) for 30 yrs Curate & for 27 yrs Rector of ((Shinrone or Shinrose)) in Kings Co., he was blind for some yrs. Before his death, owing to have been struck by lightning, but took the services at church every Sun. from memory, he died 18/1/1790 aged 80 yrs.
He M. Jane dr. of Anthony Atkinson Esq. of Congart ( this A. Atkinson M. in 1709 Mary dr. of Admiral John Guy celebrated as having ‘’ relieved Derry, raising the boom’’ .
Jane A. (Nee Atkinson)) died 23/1/1763.
Rev. Robert Carew Am. & Jane had 4 sons. Thomas M Francis Wheller- 1771 of Ballywire, Tipp.
John born in 1751 ((Twins ??)) ,
Guy ((M. Margaret Williams ??)) & Anthony (( Had Lancelot Carew ??)),
also 4 dr’s. Mary M. to Hugh Wray Esq. of Birr; Mrs Smyth: Mrs Ellard( M. to a clergyman); Alicia D. unmarried )
Thomas had 3 sons Thomas, Frank & John.
The descendants of Thomas & John who both married miss Massey’s, & are in Canada & the U.S. their father having been extravagant & his brother John was impoverished by having rashly signed his name to a promissory bill for him.(( ????? ))
Frank Am. Was an officer in the Army & served throughout the Peninsular War (( 1808-14)) without a wound. He settled in Jersey & M. as late as 1874. He was living, & still able to walk out with the dogs. (( of little interest->>))
( Uncle Nicholas met a grandson of his in Athens, by the name of de Quetteville, who stayed once at Albury, & on another occasion was there for a day with his mother) This M. de Quetteville died early from consumption & sight of the connection was lost again; escapt((???????)) to hear, incidentally though another relation in 1874 of old Capt. T.Armstrong still being alive & active. He was one of Uncle Nicholas’s heroes, in his boyish days.
John Am. ( Son of Robert C. & Jane Am.) M. Frances dr. of Thomas Doolan of Portumna, Galway. Whose wife was Anna Maria Tidd.
Francis Doolan was only 16 on her marriage with J. Am. In 1773 She died in 1844 aged 87. B. 1864.her husband John.Am. died Dec. 1826 age 75 . B.1751
They left many sons. 1) Robert, who M. badly, for the 2nd time, he left a family & has descendents, but they have quite fallen from the position that their grandfather was born in, & which, had he been steady, he would, have been well continued in. 2) Thomas ( our grandfather ((To Kate & J.A.A. my g.father ???)) ) was an excellent man; he was at the battle of Talavern; but caught a fever directly afterwards & was compelled in consequence of it’s effect upon his health, to leave the army: he died, before his time. Of fever, he M.15/1/1856. Catherinne Carroll of a good Co. Galway family. His money went in the failure of a bank. 3) Nicholas was the youngest but one of J.Am’s large family.
(( 5 Carroll’s - Ed. X 2, Pat. x 2 & Thomas of Cool & Ballyglass,
Ahascroghmore in Ballincloon. A lot more in –Griffiths. Kate continues->>))
Therefore also , Richard, Guy, Edward, William!!!!, Henry, (who died young): Guy Am.
Was a ‘’man among men’’ (as you know we heard much of him from mother. He M. Jane dr. of his uncle Guy. They had no family. Mr. Williams mother was sister of this Jane.
N.B. I have been looking up the various surnames of the families with whom the Am.’s
Intermarried & find them all mentioned in O.Harts ‘’Irish Pedigrees’’ (( Can’t find it anywhere)) which I got a loan of. I shall now endeavour to have the Alexander side of the family. You know they were connected with the Carrolls.
Kate.
The above sketch (( She continues->)) is copied almost word for word from that which Cousin Francis sent me . Kate.
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I am familiar with the Armstrongs of Mealiffe (Never seen it spelled Meanliffe) now spelt Moyaliffe. They dwindled away after Capt Kemmis from Wicklow married an Armstrong Lady and the male line died out. The last of the Armstrongs belongings were removed about 8 years ago when Moyaliffe House was sold to John Stakelum. Three truckloads of their stuff went to South Africa where the last of the Armstrongs now live except the ones in Florida.
Captain William Pat Armstrong, son of Beresford Armstrong was Killed in Arras in 1917 when he was with the British Army, 10th Huzzars.
Regards.
Tom.
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Thanks for your response. All the best. Neil
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Hi Laterunner and thanks for posting the letter from "Aunt Kate".
I am descended from one of the 2 Sons of Thomas Armstrong - who both married Miss Massey's - and moved to Canada. I am interested in sharing what I know about the family with you and would dearly love to have a copy of the letter.
The 2 Brothers came to Canada as part of an Irish settlement program run by a Canadian MP named Peter Robinson. Not Thomas, but Robert Carew Armstrong and wife Margaret Anne Massey came with around 500 settlers in 1823 to the area that became the Canadian Capital, Ottawa. Brother John and wife Eliza Massey came in 1825 with some 2,500 settlers. They settled an area about 150 miles away which later became Peterborough, in honour of the MP who organized the settlement.
Both families prospered and I know of at least one other cousin who joined them later as Robert's daughter Frances married a second Robert Carew Armstrong.
Can you let me know if you are still an active rootschat member?
Best regards,
John.
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Johnncan ??? yes
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old Castle of Farney Bridge, near Thurles, Co.Tipperary.(Tipp.) is called Farney Castle and Cyril Cullen ( a nice guy) owns it now. Its called Farney because the Farney river is beside it and Farney means elder trees. Lots of Irish rivers are named after flora. The Castle is in between Holycross and Ballycahill. I have been in it a few times. Cyril's daughters sing an play Harps and play all over the world.
Have a look at it here;
http://www.tipp.ie/placesofinterest/farney.htm
Regards.
Tom.
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Enfield thanks for that.
Anything else known of the family Armstrong.?>n
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Hi John
I think we may be cousins. In doing some research for an upcoming trip to Ireland, I came across your post regarding Robert Carew Armstrong and Margaret Ann. I had always wondered why and when my ancestors came to Canada. Robert's granddaughter, Harriet was my great grandmother. She married George Ryan and settled in the Vancouver area many years later. Their daughter was my grandmother who called two countries home -- Canada and the U.S. I was born in California and after 76 years am still here.
Thanks for the valuable information which I will soon share with my brother and cousins. My grandmother always talked about her ancestor, Lord Massy, who lived in Ireland but never talked about the Armstrong family.
Doris
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Hi Doris. It is a pleasure to meet you. I've been quite lucky in filling out our Armstrong / Massy tree with help from Laterunner - who started this excellent post - and 2 other descendants I found through the Internet. Together, we can probably help you fill out your ancestor tree and maybe even suggest some area you'll want to visit in Ireland.
Please feel free to email me at:
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Thanks so much for responding to my post. I have a ton of questions but will start with this: How are you related to the Armstrong/Massy family? And, do you reside in Canada?
Our line is pretty limited as Harriet Armstrong (my gr. grandmother) had only one child who lived to adulthood. That was my grandmother Frances (Fanny) Ryan who had 2 children who lived to adulthood -- my mother Rita and her sister Beatrice (Birdie).
The chance finding of you and this web site was a result of my search for Suir Castle. While visiting Ireland 2 years ago I came across a book that chronicles the whole history of the Massy family from the origins in France to modern times. That's where I discovered the Suir Castle.
I'm sure you're acquainted with the book: "If Those Trees Could Speak." by Frank Tracy. Apparently, the Suir Castle no longer exists. However, I would like to at least see the area upon which it stood.
I would provide my E-mail address, but it would probably be removed. So in the meantime, I'll use this site to communicate.
Once again, thanks so very much for the information.
Doris
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Hi Doris. If I understand correctly, we're supposed to use Private Massaging, but we're not allowed to use Private Messaging since you are a new member and don't have 3 posts to your credit. That's not very helpful! :-X
However, this is my 3rd post and I see 2 from you. If you reply again, that makes 3 for you and we can try out this fabulous PM to share our email addresses and be welcomed back to the 21st century technology-wise.
Some info for now:
Yes, I am Canadian. Robert Carew and Margaret Ann (Massy) Armstrong's second daughter was Frances Ann Armstrong. She married a second Robert Carew Armstrong (certainly a cousin, but precise relation is not known) and moved to McGillivray Township, Middlesex County, North of London Ontario. One of their daughters, Eleanor Armstrong, married Matthew Varley and they are my GG Grandparents.
Actually, I understand Suir Castle still exists and is now owned by an organic farmer. I found him on a search of the internet as well, I believe, he contacted one of our cousins asking for information about the family. I understand he is researching all the families previously associated with the home (I don't think it is a "Castle" in the traditional sense).
I just received the Frank Tracy book last week and enjoyed it tremendously. Our connection to the family didn't get much press as we are descended from the 1st Baron through the eldest son of his second marriage - since we we were outside of the direct peerage we didn't warrant much mention in the book. However, I have lots to share if we ever manage to make this email thing work!
John.
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Hi John,
Thanks for the additional information. As my enthusiasm grows regarding this family search, my household chores continue to pile up. I seem to be glued to my laptop.
After reading your message I rummaged through some papers and letters that had belonged to my mother. Among them is a lengthy letter signed Vina. It was from this letter that my mother and I learned the history of the Massy and Armstrong families. It looks like Robert Carew married twice and produced 10 children, which includes 2 sons by the first wife. It was from these sons that my g.grandmother Harriet received an inheritance. Harriet was the 3rd daughter from the 2nd marriage.
Have you visited Farney Castle or Suir Castle? We will only have one day to visit these places as we will be passengers on a cruise ship that will stop at Cobn (Cork) harbor. I'm trying to reserve a car, but I'm afraid our ages will be a problem. I'm 76, and my traveling companion is 80.
This trip will be a sampling, and on another trip I shall plan to stay at least a week. There is something magic about walking on the ground that our ancestors walked upon hundreds of years ago.
Thanks again for your valuable information.
Doris
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Hi All,
My name is Beresford Armstrong, my G grandfather was Marcus Beresford Armstrong Capt. of Moyaliffe Castle, His daughter Cornelia Ione Kathleen Beresford-Armstrong married Sir William Lindsay Everard, MP JP of Ratcliffe-on-the-Wreeke Leicestershire, where he owned an airdrome,
Their son Patrick Anthoney William Beresford Armstrong Everard was my father, but he never married, not even my mother.
I would love to find out more about my ancestors out there. It sounds as if some of you are already in contact. I know nothing about the South Africa lot or the USA Florida crowd, any help would be fantastic.
I live on the south coast of England Pevensey Bay Sussex. I know they produced either men of the cloth or Army officers.
I would love to go back as far as possible, with this and will be delighted if any help is there.
Will visit Ireland again to see people and places, anything welcome. Pictures, photos, ect.
my given name is Diana Katherine Beresford-Everard- Bell ;D
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Hi Katherine. If you are an Armstrong from Mealiffe / Moyaliffe, I am sure we are related.
I don't know if you have seen it, but Debrett's Peerage of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (ed. 22; 1838) has a nice write-up on Beresford. It's available on-line at http://books.google.com/books?id=Ru4UAAAAQAAJ See pages 712 / 713 or paste the following link and you'll go direct to the Beresford page:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ru4UAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA713&dq=beresford+armstrong&lr=&as_brr=1#PPA712,M1
The page begins with info on John Horsley-Beresford, current (in 1838) Baron Decries, of Decies, co. Waterford, but the fine print contains details around his lineage. Most importantly, it mentions Catherine-Eleanor Beresford's marriage 11 Nov 1791 to Rev William Armstrong of Mealiffe. I suspect that is your direct lineage. Let me know what you think.
I can give you my email address, but Rootschat will only allow me to do so via private messaging and you need 2 more posts before I can send you that message. So, by necessity, we'll have to trade a couple more posts here.
John.
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Hello Kathleen.
I am sure you know that all the papers that came out of Moyaliffe house was sent to the University of Limerick for indexing and as far as I know they have not even looked at the. This happened about 6 years ago when the house was sold to John Stakelum. My main interest is William (Pat) Armstong who was killed in action in Arras in 1917 while he was with the 10th Hussars.
Regards.
Tom.
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I think I have a letter or two of Rev Armstrong c 1830 around here somewhere.
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Hello jb.nobel, very nice to meet you and many many thanks for the information.
Still trying to get my confused head round it all.
Found out a little more today, seems that my G G G grandfather was William Armstrong of Mealiffe and Chaffpool, his wife was Catherine, daughter of General Clark m.1888. and Rosealie Cornelia Ceely Maude.
My Grandmar was Cornelia Ione Kathleen Beresford-Armstrong later Lady Everard wife of Sir Lindsay Everard.
So where do you fit into the family, I would love to know. Would love to find relatives.
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Wow Enfield,
Would love to see them, or even have a copy !! Please tell me why your interest
in Pat, only. is he a close relative ??
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There are actually three. One is just an envelope but here are scans of them. I bought them at different times on the net. They are dated 1810, 1822 and the other envelope is not dated but is from 1915. I also have a pre-famine flyer regarding giving alms to the poor of Thurles chaired by Rev Armstrong somehere around here. My interest in Pat is because he was a local man and features in my book ' The Tipperary War Dead'. His uniforms and other items of his are still in the Famine and War Museum in Thurles here in Tipperary.
All the links below will be depeted in 12 hours.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/1-1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/1001-1.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/1822.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/1002-1.jpg
Regards.
Tom.
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Hi Katherine.
Where do I fit in - an excellent question! Here's a not so short answer...
Here is what I believe is the lineage:
John Armstrong inherited Farney Castle from his father, Captain William Armstrong of the Tipperary Horse. That left second son, Thomas, without a home.
He signed a lease for Mealiffe from Kingsmill Pennefather of Newpark, County Tipperary on 1st January, 1714 (see http://www.igp-web.com/tipperary/estate38.htm). It was a long-term lease, initially covering 3 lifetimes, but renewable in perpetuity on payment of a renewal fine. This last fact is particularly relevant as any subsequent "Armstrong of Mealiffe" presumably had to be his direct descendant. FYI, the lease was cancelled for non-payment about 1850.
Thomas married Mary Carew, eldest daughter of Robert Carew, Co. Wexford. I believe they had a very large family and Mealiffe passed to his second son, John (I think probably born about 1705) when his eldest son, William, died without children about 1768. Mealiffe then passed to John's son, the Reverend William Carew Armstrong, and I believe you are descended from this line. They retained the lease on Mealiffe and Catherine-Eleanor Beresford married a Reverend William Carew Armstrong 11 Nov 1791.
However, Catherine-Eleanor's parents married 12 June 1763 so she was probably born about 1770 and the Rev WCA above was probably born no later than 1740 based on his fathers birth about 1705. She might well have married a son of the original Rev WCA.
This is where our lines diverged in any case. I am descended from a later son of Thomas and Mary (Carew) Armstrong. As per Aunt Kate, the Reverend Robert Carew Armstrong, Rector of Shinrone, King's County married Jane Atkinson, 4th daughter of Anthony Atkinson MP of Cangort, King's County. They had a number of children - I am from Thomas who married Frances Wheeler about 1771, daughter of Francis Wheeler of Ballywire, Co. Tipperary. They had 3 sons:
- Captain Frances Wheeler Armstrong, b: 1779, Married Esther Françoise de Quetteville 15 June 1819 in Grouville, Jersey and died 15 April 1868 in Jersey
- Captain John Armstrong, b: 1788 in Torne, King's County, Married Elizabeth Frances Massey, Daughter of Hon Francis Hugh Massy of Suir Castle, Co. Tipperary; Granddaughter of Hugh Massy, 1st Baron of Duntrileague
- Robert Carew Armstrong, b: 1784 in Mount Eaton, Kilfinane, County Limerick, Married Margaret Ann Massey - the sister of his brother's wife
Aunt Kate had it mostly right - John and Robert came to Canada. Robert came first in 1823, settling near Ottawa, and John came in 1825, settling near what became Peterborough. Both were part of a government sponsored settlement project lead by an MP named Peter Robinson to punch-up the population. The program was approved, in part, to create a stronger militia in the event the Americans looked north of the border again as they had in the War of 1812. Most of the settlers were Catholic, although the Armstrongs were not.
It doesn't help much with the family that moved to Mealiffe, but check out Burkes Peerage (1863) on-line for a decent summary of how the family came to Ireland. However, I understand the connection to old Laird John Armstrong of Gilnockie is likely but not 100% proven:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ni4BAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA936&dq=armstrong+farney#PPA936,M1
That's about it for now. I won't claim credit for most of the above - it was compiled largely by David Malet Armstrong, descended from Captain Frances Wheeler Armstrong, and Tina Hansen, descended from Captain John Armstrong. I am descended from the third son, Robert Carew Armstrong. Any errors in the above post are almost certainly due to my transcription as their research to date has proven to be exceptional.
John.
ENFIELD - I just noticed your post. Thank you VERY much. I'm sure I will enjoy the letters as much as Katherine.
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Dear Tom,
Many thanks for that, so kind of you. Have you finished your book? have you managed to publish it? what a fantastic achievement. I have always wanted to write books, but never had the time. Now I have the time and !!!! but I love the research.
One day soon I shall visit the museum in Tipperary, may be we could have a drink. My hubby and I get about quite a lot now he has retired.
That sounds a bit cheeky, hope your not offended.
Kind Regards Katherine
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Wow John,
That is some history, it is going to take some time to get my poor old head round all that, I have read it a few times now, I'm getting there, I think I have read that piece you sent me, somewhere along the way.
Having only just started this research, it is wonderful to read yours and add it to mine.
Well we are related, but a while ago, but that matters not. So pleased to meet you. May I ask where you are in this wide world? it sounds as if your in Canada?
I gather from your info that Mealiffe was not owned by the Armstrong family? is this so ? Very interesting it was lost through none payment, that would be my great gradfather William Armstrong and his wife Catherine, she was a Ceely Maude who was the granddaughter of Viscount Hawarden. So there should have been some money, no wonder grandad married his daughter Cornelia off to a few titles and the like, one of her sisters married into the Dukes of Bedfords, I remember going for tea as a little girl, with the Duke and Great Auntie.
I remember the toilet had a crimson cover and the Coat of Arms was on it. Strange the things you remember as a child.
I have a strange upbringing, as my father never married my mother, but he took me away from her as he felt she was unfit to bring me up and he and Lady Everard (tried) to bring me up, but in the end they paid some one to foster me. Dad wanted to be a racing driver !!! and he did for a while.
But when Gran died when I was 13 he gave up on me, stopped the money. Things went down hill from then.
That is why I have never bothered with the family history before, but something strange happened and started me on this journey. Dad is still alive aged 87 he never married, no other children. Bit odd. He is, I mean.
Strange thing is, 28 years ago I found my mum's side, she died aged 51, never met her but she married and went on to have six children, I know them all and am close to 2 of them.
Life sure is strange.
Kind Regards and Many Thanks
Katherine (Cousin)
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The reply was too big to PM so I will split it up and post it here.
Yes I do have a photo. The link to it is below, I will remove it from the net in 12 hours. There is small bit about him in the book also below. A project about 15 years ago was undertaken to type out all his ( Pats) letters from when he was in Sandhurst right up to 1917. They amount to about 80 pages.
Here is his listing in the book;
Image 5
ARMSTRONG, WILLIAM MAURICE (PAT). Rank: Captain. Regiment or Service: 10th (Prince of Wales's Own Royal) Hussars Secondary. Unit; (Bde. Major. 29th Div. ) Age at Death: 27. Date of Death: 23-05-1917. Awards: M C, Mentioned in Despatches. Supplementary information; Son of Marcus Beresford Armstrong and Rosalie Cornelia Armstrong, of Moyaliffe, Thurles, Co. Tipperary. Grave or Memorial Reference: V. F. 18. Cemetery; Faubourg D’Amiens Cemetery, Arras in France.
Extract from De Ruvignys Roll of Honour;
WILLIAM MAURICE ARMSTRONG, M. C, Capt, 10th (Prince of Wales’s Own Royal) Hussars, only son of Marcus Beresford Armstrong, Capt, D. L, J. P, of Moyaliffe, Co. Tipperary; Chaffpool, Co. Sligo, and Clodagh, Folkestone, Co. Kent, by his wife, Rosalie Cornelia, daughter of the late Maurice Ceely Maude, of Lenaghan, Co. Fermanagh, and cousin to the late Lieut. General Sir F. Stanley Maude, K. C. B, C. M. G, D. S. O. ; b. Chaffpool aforesaid, 20 Aug. 1889; educ. at Stoke House, Slough; Eton and the Royal Military College, Sandhurst : was gazetted 2nd Lieut. 23 Feb. 1910; promoted Lieut 1 Feb 1914, and Capt. 7 May, 1917. ; served with his regiment in India and South Africa ; was in England on leave on the outbreak of war, and left for France in Aug. 1914, with the original Expeditionary Force, being attached to the staff of the 2nd Cavalry Brigade ; after serving in France and Flanders, was sent to Gallipoli in June 1915, where he served as Staff Captain, with the famous 29th Division, taking part in the evacuation of both Suvia and Helles ; was sent to Egpyt ; returned to France in March 1916, and was serving as Brigade Major, and had just been recommended for the D. S. O. when he was killed in action on 23 May, 1917, while on duty in a front-line trench near Arras. Buried in Fambourg d’Amiens Cemetery, Arras. Capt. Armstrong was awarded the Military Cross (London Gazette, 2 Feb. 1916), and was four times mentioned in Despatches (London Gazettes, 9 Dec 1914; 28 Jan 1916; 13 July 1916, and 15 May 1917), for gallant and distinguished service in the field. He was a keen sportsman and very successful in his big-game shooting expeditions; had won many races and horse-jumping competitions; was a promising polo player, and had hunted with most of the English and Irish packs. The General Commanding the Cavalry Corps wrote; “As an old Tenth Hussar, too, I can tell you how very distressed the whole regiment will be, and what a loss he will be to them. He had done so awfully well during this war, and showed such great promise for the future, that he is a great loss, not only to his regiment and the cavalry, but to the whole Army. I do not know of anyone of his age who had a more promising future before him, as not only did he love his profession, and show most of the qualities needed for him to shine in it, but he had such a charming personality that all he came in contact with loved him, and were able to show their best work when working with him or under him. ” General ________ wrote: “…. He
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was so absolutely fearless, he was bound to be hit sooner or later, but I had always hoped it would be to be wounded only…. I cannot help sending you enclosed, it is so very typical, and no better tribute could be paid to a man. You see the boy is referred to as ‘Dear old Pat’; that he always will be to all the 29th Division, who knew and appreciated him so well; he will never be forgotten. ” The enclosed letter stated; “Dear General, You will have been terribly grieved by the news of dear old Pat’s death. I know how proud you were of him. He was so far above the crowd of us, it seems so hard to lose him. Hope things go well with you and your division…. ” Another General also wrote; “I had met him hunting in the Meynell country, but I had never realised his sterling worth until I found him here as my Brigade Major; he has been my right-hand man… believe me, he is a real loss, not only to you, but to the Army. He was the best and bravest lad that ever lived. ” A Colonel on the Staff wrote: “I was convinced that he had a great future ahead of him, for the moment he took on a job he always saw it through. Of his gallantry others have doubtless told you, but what I admired most in him was his unselfishness and kindness; he never said an unkind word of anybody, and that, in the stress and worry of a campaign, is not an easy thing. I saw ‘Pat’ last on the afternoon of the 22nd, the day before he was killed, and I was awfully struck then at the manner in which his presence brightened the sordid dug-out of Brigade Headquarters. ” The Chaplain wrote: “I have just returned from your son’s funeral, where a unique gathering of senior officers testified to what we all feel. ” General ________ wrote: “He is indeed a loss to us all, as he was one of the most lovable characters I have ever met, unselfish, always cheery under the most trying circumstances, and the bravest of the brave. All the time he was with me in Gallipoli he helped me enormously to get through that trying time with his unvariable cheerfulness and good humour; besides that, his energy was astonishing; no day or work was ever too long or too hard for him; the Service has lost one of its very best” General ________ wrote: “As my A. D. C. said this afternoon, ‘Pat is the best man we have in the Division’; I think that expresses the feeling throughout; there is a gloom over the whole division to-night over this bereavement. I have seen him grow from boy to man, and a man who gained the respect of the other men who came in contact with him. ” General _______ wrote: “He was one of those gallant, unselfish people who had little chance of living through this war. Anyone who has had anything to do with them classifies them at once, and wonders they have lasted so long; there are not many of them left now, so they are valued all the more. This is not idle talk, it might have helped you a little if you had seen the people round our dinner-table when we got the news; he has never been in this brigade, but no one would have guessed it…. His action in risking his life the previous night to try and find the body of a friend was typical of him. ” Major ______ wrote: “I don’t suppose there ever was a more popular, keener soldier and sportsman than Pat… but there it is, you have lost one of the very best, and his loss to the Brigade and Division is enormous. ” An N. C. O. wrote: “We are all just deep down in the dumps; how much we all miss him I dare not say; other good fellows are gone and we mourn their loss, but with Pat it was so different. At present we all just think but dare not speak…. We must try and keep his memory green by endeavouring to follow his noble, unselfish life. ”
Here is a picture of Pat, enjoy.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/Image5.jpg
The book 'The Tipperary War Dead' is available and you can order it from any bookshop
. Its published by 'Nonsuch'
Regards.
Tom.
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Here is the flyer from 1830, enjoy;
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/1-2.jpg
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a40/clondaleek/1001-2.jpg
Regards.
Tom.
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Dear Tom,
How can I thank you, reading that memorium just made me cry and cry.
Then to see a picture of him, wonderful, many many thanks. When I came
from my stint in our Hospice charity shop this afternoon, my husband Malc had
printed out a large picture of him and left it on the dresser so I saw it when I walked in.
Wow, it was like looking at my youngest son in sepia.
Your very kind.
I will order a copy of the book as well.
You said enjoy, well I am going to frame his picture and put it on the wall with other
family. Then we will not forget him. We will remember what he gave his life for.
I will even go and find his grave, maybe even this year. We are very close to France
and often go for the day to Brudge, so not that far to Arras.
Thank you again,
Regards Katherine
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Would you believe it but I also have a photograph of his grave.
I am a bit busy for the next few days but I will dig it out and send you the link when I can. I will also send you a short article I wrote regarding the Gallipoli oaks at Moyaliffe House. I was up in Moyaliffe graveyard last year and did not see any Armstrong graves there, go figure. When you are over I will bring you up there.
Regards.
Tom.
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Here it is, enjoy;
The Moyaliffe/Gallipoli Oaks
As part of my on-going research of Captain Armstrong and his life it was time to find the Moyaliffe/Gallipoli oaks that is if they existed at all.
In a small wooden box in the Museum there are beech nuts and acorns. On the lid it states that they were sent back from Gallipoli by Staff Captain William Maurice ‘Pat’ Armstrong in 1916. The Gallipoli disaster ended in 1915.
If the statement is true i.e. that they were sent back in 1916, then perhaps the writer meant that they were received in 1916. I had heard that some of the acorns were propagated and grown into Oak trees ( and Beech?) on the lands belonging to the Armstrong family in Moyaliffe. I decided to investigate. I asked permission from Mrs Stakelum ( The present owner) to search the lands for the trees and she graciously agreed.
On the 10th of December 2000 I went searching for these elusive oak trees and eventually located them outside the walls of the orchard. The area they were in was being used by the construction team as a dump/bonfire area. There was only one oak tree that I could measure as the base of the others were buried under rubble and rubbish. I did the accepted test to assess the age of the trees without cutting one down. I measured up a yard from the base and then measured the diameter there. It was 83 inches. One inch being approximately one year gave me a ballpark age of 83 years. It is 85 years since the rout at Gallipoli. I therefore suggest that these oak trees outside of the walls of the orchard are the ones grown from the Gallipoli acorns.
They are beautiful trees even in wintertime and I felt privileged just to stand beside them for a brief period.
Tom Burnell.
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Dearest Tom,
You are truly amazing, what an incredible story and for you to prove it true, you are a man after my own heart.
So if I come over in late September and pick some acorns and bring them back to Sussex and grow some oak trees of my own, then it would but truly perpetuating his will. It rather shows what sort of man he was in doing such a thing in the midst of such brutality and carnage.
Such a meaning full gesture, God Bless him and thank you
yours Katherine
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Glad to help.
Regards.
Tom.
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I have noticed your connections to Francis Wheeler of Ballywire. Have any of you traced back the ancestors of Francis Wheeler.
Currently it is my belief that Francis Massey Wheeler who married Anna Doyle who was the son of Francis Wheeler who married Elizabeth Arthur who was the son of Francis Wheeler who married Elizabeth Massey
This is where it gets a bit sketchy
This Francis wheeler was posssibly the son of Oliver Wheeler and Martha Baker (When Oliver died Martha remarried Joseph Cuffe)
Oliver Wheeler would have been the son of Francis Wheeler who married Maria Tighe who was son of Oliver Wheeler who married Elizabeth Weldon who was son of Dr Jonah Wheeler Bishop of Ossory who died in 1640.
Martha Baker was either the daughter or grand daughter of Walter Baker of Ballywire which is where The Wheeler family possibly came to posses Ballywire.
Anybody know if this is correct.
What i am really trying to track down is whether there is a link into my Dublin based Wheeler family.
I am related to the Rev George Bomfforde Wheeler born in 1805 who was the 2nd editor of the Irish Times, 3 weeks after its foundation. He was originally called George Baker Wheeler but later changed his name. He also probably had a brother a William James Cuffe Wheeler. The Cuffe and Baker names would tend to indicate a link to this family. The Bomford's were also a prominent Tipperary family who married into the Massy family at one stage.
All help would be greatly appreciated.
Out of interest there is also a book in our family written by a Sir George Wheler in about 1680 regarding his travels in Greece. This book was first signed in 1732 by a Jacob Wheeler, then subsequently by a George Wheeler, James Wheeler and then the Rev George Bomfforde Wheeler.
I have not been able to find any link to the Wheler family which has an extensive pedigree
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from previous post i am hoping to find the tie-in to the rev oliver wheeler who married Martha Baker.
I found an internet reference which suggested that they had children Francis Wheeler and Oliver Wheeler, Elinor and Margaret Wheeler who married Edward Fennell
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this post can be ignored - sending third post so can be pm'd
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Got your PM and will reply as soon as I am done posting this.
Just thought I should post in case any subsequent readers stumble on the post in search of Francis Wheeler. Yes, I believe Francis is from Rev. Oliver Wheeler and Martha Baker. I trade emails frequently with a cousin who is particularly adept at research through Gooble Books - we'll link her into an email conversation and see if we can help with your missing link to the family.
"Talk" Soon.
John.
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Does anyone have info. on any Carroll line
& other
Irish- Alexanders or Armstrongs????
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Everyone has a different angle on the Armstrongs on this thread. Here is mine - my family worked for them
I have a write up on Moyaliff House here (http://www.grantonline.com/grant-family-genealogy/Tipperary/Moyaliffe/moyaliff-house/moyaliff-house.htm) which has some photos
This page is about my family, the Grants, in the area, (http://www.grantonline.com/grant-family-genealogy/Tipperary/Moyaliffe/grants_of_moyaliff.htm) and there are links and info on the history of the area in the early 1800, and pages on some of the other local landlords.
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Mainly looking for Alexanders out of or before Dublin.[/u]
(This is mainly part of a letter from Kate probably my great aunt-sister to my grandfather John Armstrong Alexander.)
Written from 47 Tavistock St. Bedford. 6/7/1900 To Alice.
(( )) = My additions
Capt. Thomas Armstrong (Am) supposed to be a younger brother of Sir Thomas Am. (Judge Jeffries victim) settled in Tipperary, at the old Castle of Farney Bridge, near Thurles, Co.Tipperary.(Tipp.) soon after the battle of Worchester (some say in 1660) He was a Capt. Of a troop of horse attached to the Tipperary Militia in 1688.
He married Alice dr.of Sir Thomas Deane of Clare Co. Suffolk.
His eldest son John married (M) Julianna, dr, of Robert Carew Esq. of Ballyboro Co. Wexford, (( Born 1640? D. 1706/7))
from him came the A’s of Mount Heaton King’s County, now represented by Mr. Macdonnell Am. Co. Clare.
Capt.Thomas Am’s 2nd son, Thomas, B. (1671) of Meanliffe (now Moyaliff, Co. Tipp., M. Mary dr. of Robert Carew Esq of Ballinamona Co. Wexford;
he had 7 sons & 6 drs., from his eldest son came the Am’s
of Meanliffe Hall, Thurles Co. Tipp. Thomas Am. was High Sheriff of Tipp. In the reign of Queen Anne (( 1702- 1714)) He died in 1747. One of his sons must ((???)) have been the
Rev. Robert Carew Am. ((B. 1709?)) for 30 yrs Curate & for 27 yrs Rector of ((Shinrone or Shinrose)) in Kings Co., he was blind for some yrs. Before his death, owing to have been struck by lightning, but took the services at church every Sun. from memory, he died 18/1/1790 aged 80 yrs.
He M. Jane dr. of Anthony Atkinson Esq. of Congart ( this A. Atkinson M. in 1709 Mary dr. of Admiral John Guy celebrated as having ‘’ relieved Derry, raising the boom’’ .
Jane A. (Nee Atkinson)) died 23/1/1763.
Rev. Robert Carew Am. & Jane had 4 sons. Thomas M Francis Wheller- 1771 of Ballywire, Tipp.
John born in 1751 ((Twins ??)) ,
Guy ((M. Margaret Williams ??)) & Anthony (( Had Lancelot Carew ??)),
also 4 dr’s. Mary M. to Hugh Wray Esq. of Birr; Mrs Smyth: Mrs Ellard( M. to a clergyman); Alicia D. unmarried )
Thomas had 3 sons Thomas, Frank & John.
The descendants of Thomas & John who both married miss Massey’s, & are in Canada & the U.S. their father having been extravagant & his brother John was impoverished by having rashly signed his name to a promissory bill for him.(( ????? ))
Frank Am. Was an officer in the Army & served throughout the Peninsular War (( 1808-14)) without a wound. He settled in Jersey & M. as late as 1874. He was living, & still able to walk out with the dogs. (( of little interest->>))
( Uncle Nicholas met a grandson of his in Athens, by the name of de Quetteville, who stayed once at Albury, & on another occasion was there for a day with his mother) This M. de Quetteville died early from consumption & sight of the connection was lost again; escapt((???????)) to hear, incidentally though another relation in 1874 of old Capt. T.Armstrong still being alive & active. He was one of Uncle Nicholas’s heroes, in his boyish days.
John Am. ( Son of Robert C. & Jane Am.) M. Frances dr. of Thomas Doolan of Portumna, Galway. Whose wife was Anna Maria Tidd.
Francis Doolan was only 16 on her marriage with J. Am. In 1773 She died in 1844 aged 87. B. 1864.her husband John.Am. died Dec. 1826 age 75 . B.1751
They left many sons. 1) Robert, who M. badly, for the 2nd time, he left a family & has descendents, but they have quite fallen from the position that their grandfather was born in, & which, had he been steady, he would, have been well continued in. 2) Thomas ( our grandfather ((To Kate & J.A.A. my g.father ???)) ) was an excellent man; he was at the battle of Talavern; but caught a fever directly afterwards & was compelled in consequence of it’s effect upon his health, to leave the army: he died, before his time. Of fever, he M.15/1/1856. Catherinne Carroll of a good Co. Galway family. His money went in the failure of a bank. 3) Nicholas was the youngest but one of J.Am’s large family.
(( 5 Carroll’s - Ed. X 2, Pat. x 2 & Thomas of Cool & Ballyglass,
Ahascroghmore in Ballincloon. A lot more in –Griffiths. Kate continues->>))
Therefore also , Richard, Guy, Edward, William!!!!, Henry, (who died young): Guy Am.
Was a ‘’man among men’’ (as you know we heard much of him from mother. He M. Jane dr. of his uncle Guy. They had no family. Mr. Williams mother was sister of this Jane.
N.B. I have been looking up the various surnames of the families with whom the Am.’s
Intermarried & find them all mentioned in O.Harts ‘’Irish Pedigrees’’ (( Can’t find it anywhere)) which I got a loan of. I shall now endeavour to have the Alexander side of the family. You know they were connected with the Carrolls.
Kate.
The above sketch (( She continues->)) is copied almost word for word from that which Cousin Francis sent me . Kate.
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Interested in more information. My family decended from John and Eliza (Massey)Armstrong. My ggrandfather was Robert Carew Armstrong His son Charles and wife Delia Dufresne my grandparents. My fathers name was Edward Joseph John Armstrong.
Hi Laterunner and thanks for posting the letter from "Aunt Kate".
I am descended from one of the 2 Sons of Thomas Armstrong - who both married Miss Massey's - and moved to Canada. I am interested in sharing what I know about the family with you and would dearly love to have a copy of the letter.
The 2 Brothers came to Canada as part of an Irish settlement program run by a Canadian MP named Peter Robinson. Not Thomas, but Robert Carew Armstrong and wife Margaret Anne Massey came with around 500 settlers in 1823 to the area that became the Canadian Capital, Ottawa. Brother John and wife Eliza Massey came in 1825 with some 2,500 settlers. They settled an area about 150 miles away which later became Peterborough, in honour of the MP who organized the settlement.
Both families prospered and I know of at least one other cousin who joined them later as Robert's daughter Frances married a second Robert Carew Armstrong.
Can you let me know if you are still an active rootschat member?
Best regards,
John.
:)
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I have connection to Frances Wheeler Married to Eliz Massy (sister of Hon Hugh Massey of Seine castle (castle name is suspect)
Children Frances Hugh Wheeler Married to Margaret Massey (sister of Hugh Massey)
Oliver Wheeler Married- No record
Elizabeth Wheeler Married ?Scanlon of Ballnala
Amy Wheeler Married Hugh Bennett
Fanny Wheeler Married Thomas Armstrong of Kings Co. Ireland MY ANCESTORS!
Anything New or different would be appreciated.I have noticed your connections to Francis Wheeler of Ballywire. Have any of you traced back the ancestors of Francis Wheeler.
Currently it is my belief that Francis Massey Wheeler who married Anna Doyle who was the son of Francis Wheeler who married Elizabeth Arthur who was the son of Francis Wheeler who married Elizabeth Massey
This is where it gets a bit sketchy
This Francis wheeler was posssibly the son of Oliver Wheeler and Martha Baker (When Oliver died Martha remarried Joseph Cuffe)
Oliver Wheeler would have been the son of Francis Wheeler who married Maria Tighe who was son of Oliver Wheeler who married Elizabeth Weldon who was son of Dr Jonah Wheeler Bishop of Ossory who died in 1640.
Martha Baker was either the daughter or grand daughter of Walter Baker of Ballywire which is where The Wheeler family possibly came to posses Ballywire.
Anybody know if this is correct.
What i am really trying to track down is whether there is a link into my Dublin based Wheeler family.
I am related to the Rev George Bomfforde Wheeler born in 1805 who was the 2nd editor of the Irish Times, 3 weeks after its foundation. He was originally called George Baker Wheeler but later changed his name. He also probably had a brother a William James Cuffe Wheeler. The Cuffe and Baker names would tend to indicate a link to this family. The Bomford's were also a prominent Tipperary family who married into the Massy family at one stage.
All help would be greatly appreciated.
Out of interest there is also a book in our family written by a Sir George Wheler in about 1680 regarding his travels in Greece. This book was first signed in 1732 by a Jacob Wheeler, then subsequently by a George Wheeler, James Wheeler and then the Rev George Bomfforde Wheeler.
I have not been able to find any link to the Wheler family which has an extensive pedigree
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do you know Tina Hansen. she must be related to you as she is from the Armstrong line and is also picking up on this thread
I have passed on most of my information on your line to her and the connection to the Wheeler family.
She is very knowledgable about the Armstrong line and has sent me a lot of documents.
if you pm me i can give you an e-mail adress for me and her
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thanks so much for the reply. I am so excited that so much history is available now. I am the ggrandaughter to Thomas Carew and Elizabeth Tamblyn. Their son, Charles is my father's father, his name was Edward Joseph John Armstrong. He immigrated to the U.S. as young man.
To any other Armstrongs out there..please let me know, I am anxious for history.
One thing that has been unavailable is the history of Charles's wife, Delia Dufresne. As far as I have been able to only find her birthdate (Oct 1877 in Penatong, Ontario) Maybe some of you Armstrong have a connection. they had 10 children and moved from Ontario to Alberta in 1907 to homestead.
Thanks to all.
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See this as an answer to most of our queries.
http://web.archive.org/web/20120310095603/http://www.houseofalexander.com/site/?m=200711 (http://web.archive.org/web/20120310095603/http://www.houseofalexander.com/site/?m=200711) Link updated 2015
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A Massey, Armstrong or even Williams may be an Alexander??
It has California on it's back in older script
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any canaians recognise this lady.
I've alexander's living in Calgary now as vitlers.
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http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=1904
This link may be of some interest
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Thanks a lot I'll have a look in the new year.
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My line is:
Thomas ARMSTRONG (c1603-1662)
William ARMSTRONG (c1635-1690) m Alice DEAN
John ARMSTRONG (d1707) of Farney m Juliann CAREW
Revd James William ARMSTRONG (b1706) m Sarah NICHOLSON
Ann ARMSTRONG m1761 Revd. Basil ALDWELL
Catherine ALDWELL m1798 Edwin SANDYS
and downwards.
As with many Irish ancestors, I have found several trees and speculative links, but am struggling to find documentary evidence. Names I believe come from reliable sources are in black, speculative names in blue.
If anyone can point me in the direction of provable sources I would be very grateful.
All the best
Philip
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Hello All,
Has anyone researched Robert Carew Armstrong who wed Mary Hudson? Any information on this couple would be welcome. They had a son, Frederick John Armstrong. He was baptized in 1827 in Limerick. He appears in the 1851 Census for Southampton.
Cheers,
Bob