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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: mentmore on Wednesday 25 July 07 15:35 BST (UK)

Title: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Wednesday 25 July 07 15:35 BST (UK)


Does anyone have access to St. Saviours Cemetery. Gouldburn, NSW burial records and poss photos?

Or a web site plse.

Thank you

Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Robert Coble on Thursday 26 July 07 00:16 BST (UK)


Does anyone have access to St. Saviours Cemetery. Gouldburn, NSW burial records and poss photos?

Or a web site plse.

Thank you

Carol

Hi Carol,
What Name are you looking for in Goulburn there?
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Thursday 26 July 07 00:21 BST (UK)


Hi

The names are Ann Mariah Nichols believe to have died October 1853 and her husband John Nichols again believed to have died October 1869.

thanks for your reply, hope you can help, wonder if there might be a photo of their gravestone?

Best wishes

Carol - London England
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Robert Coble on Thursday 26 July 07 00:33 BST (UK)


Hi

The names are Ann Mariah Nichols believe to have died October 1853 and her husband John Nichols again believed to have died October 1869.

thanks for your reply, hope you can help, wonder if there might be a photo of their gravestone?

Best wishes

Carol - London England
Hi Carol,
Can not fine them in the Goulburn Cemetry records but found this:

 V18531971 39B/1853      NICHOLS      ANN      AGE 33

 211/1869      NICHOLS      JOHN      AGE 89 YEARS      DIED SYDNEY      SYDNEY 

Don't know if they are the ones you are looking for there but they are the ones in your time frame there Carol.
OzyBob
Sydney
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W
Post by: Robert Coble on Thursday 26 July 07 00:44 BST (UK)
Hi Carol,
This web link for St Saviours Cemetery


http://www.ozgenonline.com/aust_cemeteries/nsw/goulburn/stsav.htm
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Thursday 26 July 07 11:51 BST (UK)


Hi Ozybob

Again, thanks for your reply and info. The dates tie in but Ann Mariah Nichols age would have been 31 OK give or take a few years could be her, but John Nichols was born 1817, on the immigration ships list pf 1849  his age is 30, so his age at death 1869 would have been 52 not 89.
Will have a look at the St Saviours Cemetery site. Maybe they weren't buried there, I just have the details from a relative in Oz.
Thanks for your help.
Best wishes

Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Robert Coble on Friday 27 July 07 02:12 BST (UK)


Hi Ozybob

Again, thanks for your reply and info. The dates tie in but Ann Mariah Nichols age would have been 31 OK give or take a few years could be her, but John Nichols was born 1817, on the immigration ships list pf 1849  his age is 30, so his age at death 1869 would have been 52 not 89.
Will have a look at the St Saviours Cemetery site. Maybe they weren't buried there, I just have the details from a relative in Oz.
Thanks for your help.
Best wishes

Carol
Hi Carol,
I just went through the 30 pages of the first name John thats died in 1869 and the one I put up for you is the only John Nichols there died in 1869, Would he have died difference year there as there is only that one for 1869 Carol or did they spell Nichols  difference ?


OzyBob.
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: cando on Friday 27 July 07 02:25 BST (UK)
Hi

Could this be your man?

From http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm

9409/1868   
NICHOLS John 
Father JOHN     
Mother MARTHA     
District GOULBURN

There a number of Nichols deaths at Goulburn in the 1860's - may be rellies.

I searched just using the surname, period and district.

Carol do you have their parents' names as this would assist in locating correct registration - please :)

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Friday 27 July 07 21:47 BST (UK)


Hi Ozybob

I have the date of October 1869 for John Nichols death from a rellie of John in Oz, and that he is buried with Ann Mariah at St Saviours Cemetery Goulburn NSW. I notice that on Ann Mariah and John Nichols marriage cert surname is spelt Nichols, English 1841 census spelt Nickolls and on the immigration list spelt Nicholls, so take your pick.

Thanks for your help

Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Friday 27 July 07 21:52 BST (UK)


Hi Cando

John Nichols (Nicholls) (Nicholls) parents were Thomas Nichols and Ann Nichols (nee Baskerfield) John was born England and immigrated to Aus 1849.
Ann Mariah's parents were Sarah and Robert Abraham, Ann Mariah also born Eng.

Thanks

Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Robert Coble on Saturday 28 July 07 00:43 BST (UK)


Hi Cando

John Nichols (Nicholls) (Nicholls) parents were Thomas Nichols and Ann Nichols (nee Baskerfield) John was born England and immigrated to Aus 1849.
Ann Mariah's parents were Sarah and Robert Abraham, Ann Mariah also born Eng.

Thanks

Carol
Hi Carol,
This is all the John Nichols/Nicholls died in Goulburn from 1860 to 1880:

 3667/1862      NICHOLLS      JOHN      AGE 47 YEARS      DIED GOULBURN      GOULBURN 

 4118/1872      NICHOLLS      JOHN      AGE 60 YEARS      DIED GOULBURN      GOULBURN


I can find

ozybob
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Saturday 28 July 07 23:20 BST (UK)


Hi Ozybob


I thank you for all the effort trying to find Ann Mariah Nicols and husband John.I had another look at the info sent to me from Oz and it says.
Ann Maria  burial Oct 1853 Grave site 242 St. Saviours Cem, Goulburn NSW
John Nichols Burial Oct 1869 Grave site 242 St. Saviours Cem, Goulburn NSW.
I don't know what else we can now do.
Appreciate all your help

Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Robert Coble on Sunday 29 July 07 01:22 BST (UK)


Hi Ozybob


I thank you for all the effort trying to find Ann Mariah Nicols and husband John.I had another look at the info sent to me from Oz and it says.
Ann Maria  burial Oct 1853 Grave site 242 St. Saviours Cem, Goulburn NSW
John Nichols Burial Oct 1869 Grave site 242 St. Saviours Cem, Goulburn NSW.
I don't know what else we can now do.
Appreciate all your help

Carol
Hi Carol,
Did they have any children there or what would you like there.

OK there is some one out there that would be down that way and they might be able to go to the cemetry for and take Phone off the graves not sure there as my descendants was down that why too, But if you need any help trying to find any children let use know there see what can do OK Carol.

ozybob.
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: cando on Sunday 29 July 07 01:55 BST (UK)
Hi Carol

Perhaps the photographers named on the cemetery link may be able to help you.  There is an email address on their link from the cemetery web page - url given to you by Ozybob.

Cheers
cando




Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Sunday 29 July 07 23:48 BST (UK)


Hi Ozybob


Ann Mariah and John Nichols had a child that travelled with them from England to Aus. his name was Frederick. A child was born on the voyage his name Agenora Robert, named after the ship Agenoria on which they travelled.
That is all I know apart from the death dates of Ann Mariah and John.

Best wishes

Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Sunday 29 July 07 23:51 BST (UK)


Hi Cando

I'll look that up and send the photographer an E Mail.

Best wishes

Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Robert Coble on Monday 30 July 07 01:13 BST (UK)
hi Carol,
This could be you frederick Nichols death:

 3137/1916      NICHOLS      FREDERICK      JOHN      ANN M      GOULBURN 

Marriage on your Robert :
 12088/1955      NICHOLS      ROBERT AUGUSTINE      TREMBATH      MARGARET ELIZABETH      BROKEN HILL.


ozybob.

Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Monday 30 July 07 23:08 BST (UK)


Hi Ozybob

That seems very likely to be the death reg of Frederick Nichols for 1916.

Not sure about the marr of Rbt Augustine Nichols though.

Thank you 

Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Chris Frater on Friday 30 November 07 11:03 GMT (UK)
Carol,

On the Goulburn Pioneer Register they are listed as NICHOLLS...

I have Johns Nicholls death as  9 Oct 1869
Ann's (1st wife) death date as 9 Oct 1853 at Bungonia and buried at St.Saviours Cemetery.

1... Agenor Robert Nicholls b. 24 Aug 1846, Lake Bathurst, NSW, died 1930 Coast Hospital, Sydney, NSW. married Adeline Milne 1871

Agenor & Adeline's Children:
Robert George Nicholls
Walter Nicholls
Ernest J Nicholls
Ethel E Nicholls
Arthur Joseph Nicholls
Violet A Nicholls
Muriel E Nicholls
Ellen I Nicholls
John W Nicholls......

2.... Catherine Nicholls b. 17 Jan 1851, Tarago, NSW.
 
John Nicholls then married on the 8 May 1855 to Ann Tew (2nd wife)  at St. Saviours, Goulburn.

Children:
Walter Nicholls b.13 Jan 1856 married Eliza D Tickner 1886
William Nicholls b.14 Jun 1858 d.1859
Thomas Nicholls b.1859 d.1942 married 1882 Amelia Batten
Joseph Jenkinson Nicholls b.10 Jun 1861 d.1886
Henry James Nicholls b.1865 d.1865

Hope that may of been of some help...
Christine
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Friday 30 November 07 22:45 GMT (UK)

Hi Christine,

That is absolutely fantastic, thank you so much.
The only quiery I have is the birth date of Agenora Robert Abraham, I was lead to believe he was born on board ship during the voyage to Aust. and date of birth 28th May 1849.
But thanks for all the info.

My very best wishes to you

Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Chris Frater on Friday 30 November 07 22:59 GMT (UK)
A little more from the Goulburn Register,

Ann Tew b.c1833, Paulerspury, North Hamptonshire, England to a Thomas Tew and Catherine Dawson. Arrived 9 Jun 1849 per "James Gibb", Free. Occupation: House Servant. Religion, Methodist.

I double checked on Agenor Robert Nicholls again and the CD does say Born: 24 Aug 1848, Lake Bathurst, NSW  not 1846  like I stated earlier. I am sorry abt that.  Due to that mistake I checked the other dates again and there where all right.

I  have Thomas Nicholls 1859, children also did you want them?

Sorry abt the mistake of the year again .
Christine
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Saturday 01 December 07 00:10 GMT (UK)


Christine

Now this is odd.  Have just looked at info sent by a rellie in OZ, which shows the Assisted immigrants, with  the Nicholls family arriving 1849.
Against Agenora Roberts Nicholls name 'bv' which I assume means born on voyage, obviously an error on one of the documents, could his birth cert have been issued Lake Bathurst? when the family docked in NSW. Doesn't really matter, you have supplied me with lots of information, to which I am greatful. Would like Thomas Nicholls childrens names please.

Thanks

Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Chris Frater on Saturday 01 December 07 00:19 GMT (UK)
It is very possible that he was registered after they docked. I just had a look on the Birth Death and Marriages web site for NSW, the registration for Agenor R Nichols is V1850611 35 and was registered in 1850. Some time after they had docked.  You can check this by going to and perhaps even order the certificate,  www.bdm.gov.au


This one listed as Thomas Nichols b.1859, Goulburn, NSW d.1942 Granville, NSW son of John Nicholls and Ann Tew. Occupation: Railways. Brick Maker. Religion, Cof E. married 1882 Goulburn to Amelia Batten b.1864 Goulburn, daughter of Charles Batten and Amelia ?.

Children:
Edith Caroline b.20 Oct 1882, Goulburn. Married  Young, NSW 1900 to Alfred Clifford.

William Thomas b.1884 Goulburn, d.1885 Murrumburruh, NSW

Ernest J b.1885 Murrumburruh, NSW  (note: also says Kingsvale, NSW)
 
Albert Victor b.6 May 1888, d.3 Jan 1929 Newtown, NSW,  married 1914 to Elizabeth M Spliet.

Charles John b. 13 Sept 1890

Ada b.1892 married Goulburn 1908 to William J Reardon

Edwin J b.1894 married Temora, NSW 1916 to Lillian M Ross

Horace Alfred b.1897 married Ryde NSW 1937 to Lucy M. Rimmer

Leslie N b.1901 Hay, NSW married Glenfell, NSW 1921 to Mary E. Downey

Percy J b.1903, Glenfell, NSW d.1904 Glenfell, NSW


This one listed as Walter Nichols b.13 Jan 1856 Goulburn, NSW son of John Nicholls and Ann Tew. Occupation: Railway. Religion C of E. married Eliza Dengate Tickner b.1865 Camden, NSW. d.1931 Canterbury, NSW daughter of Henry Tickner and Martha Rideout. Religion, Presbyterian.

Children
Ethel Ann b.11 Feb 1887 Rocky Ponds, Goulburn NSW
Joseph Henry b.26 Feb 1888 Rocky Ponds, Goulburn NSW
Charles Walter b.26 May 1889 Rocky Ponds, Goulburn NSW
Alice Maud b.13 Dec 1891 Gaylong, NSW
Frederick W b.1897 Buriedrowa, NSW married Newton, NSW 1923 to Ethel P Richardson
Ida M b.1900 Hay, NSW married Sydney 1930 to Sidney R Wood.
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Monday 03 December 07 22:42 GMT (UK)


Christrina

Many, many thanks for all the information you have given me.

I don't think the Aust. census returns have survived have they? If they have is it poss to find where the Nicholls family were in any census, please.

Sorry, that I have mis-spelt your name previously.

Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Nichols grave find on Sunday 15 March 09 01:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol,
New contact for you here. Did anyone get back to you in this meantime with a photo of the Nichols grave? I'll be be going to the St Saviour's Cem this afternoon on a guided tour ( I live only a few blocks away anyway) so it'll be nice to get an expert's view for a change. I'll get a digital photo for you anyway and the name of an archivist/St Saviour's contact also in case it might still be useful as your posting didn't suggest you'd got the full info.
All the best,
Andrew
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Nichols grave find on Sunday 15 March 09 08:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol,
In case you didn't get a photo of the Nicholls gravestone I have to report the script isn't in too legible due to the condition of the sandstone, but using a few tricks I hope to have improved on what there was, also maybe I'll go tonight to get more shading on the script with a torch. While the St Saviours' records you got from Goulburn give Ann's second name as "Mariah", "Margaret" appears instead on the headstone (the postings haven't mentioned Ann Tew's middle name), also I'm pretty sure I can make out on the last line "WITH her small child", then lower down ERNEST J NICHOL is indicated, although preceded by an "and" which doesn't suggest he was the "small child".But, a child of the second marriage wouldn't be likely to be in the grave of the first mother, and the only date still legible is the last two figures of EJN, which look like --81 or --91. Did Ann Tew die early? Interesting also is no suggestion at all that John Nicholl is in the grave, and there is only one Nicholl grave in the cem. Or have mistakes been made? The stone isn't of good quality, parts of the script look juvenile, the sides of the stone are uneven and the cutting marks irregular. It would have been wonderful to get clear dates for when the woman had "departed this life.... " at the top of the headstone.
Hopefully you can reply and 'fill me in' instead.
Best wishes,
Andrew
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Sunday 15 March 09 22:07 GMT (UK)


Hi Andrew

Thanks for your reply regarding the Nicholls of Goulburn. No one got back to me regarding a photo, but by your info the gravestone is not in good condition. All I know, apart from what other RCers have given me is that John Nichols went to Australia 1849 with his wife Ann Maria and a son Frederick. A son was born during the voyage. Ann Maria died Oct 1853, buried Goulburn. John married Ann Tew in 1855, and when John died in 1869 he was buried with his first wife Ann Maria.
Any other infor would be much appreciated.
Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Nichols grave find on Monday 16 March 09 04:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol,
Thanks for getting back after all this time, last night was fun, there is a maximum security prison opposite the cem, and a couple of lights were focused on grave site 242 at 9:00pm while I was using my torches on the same. A guard on top of the wall said the area wasn't safe, I told him the sun had been too bright and FH was the reason, so no chance of being mistaken for a lurking escapee. Imagine the talk......
I'll visit the local library and check their FH centre for inscriptions and such, even the contemp G'burn Penny Post newspapers, also the St Saviour's people, there could be some answers.
On looking closer at Christrina's details, Ernest J Nicholl was Ann Mariah's grandson via her son Agenor Robert's marriage, so in spite of 'Ann Margaret' on the headstone, Ann Mariah is probably there. If EJN was born 1885 ( do you have the exact date?) I think I can make it out below his name and there could be a date legible enough for his death, which looks like 1880's/90's. Perhaps that "little child" meant her g'child after all.
I'll see what I can find out at the library. See what you think of some of the photos (helps a lot with Iphoto).
Regards,
Andrew
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Nichols grave find on Monday 16 March 09 14:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Cass,
No problem, should be easy enough. G'burn's got a good FH section, so I'll get back to you.

Andrew
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Nichols grave find on Monday 16 March 09 14:10 GMT (UK)
Carol,

Been busy. At the library the Goulburn Pioneer Register has the Nicholls' entries compiled by a Mrs M McKay who unfortunately is deceased. Frederick and Agenor had a sister Catherine b.17/1/1851 at the Nicholls' main residence at Tarago/Lake Bathurst, unfortunately no other later details given. Maybe the www.bdm.gov.au will fill them in.
The coroner's report for the death of "Ann Margaret ?"(no mention of Ann Mariah) as she is described in the GPR, was given in G'burn on the 18th Oct.1853, as happening on the 11th Oct due to a "Visitation of God". The same coroner give this verdict to about one in ten cases either side of a few weeks, so it was probably for no apparent reason discernable.Bungonia where she died is another satellite of G'burn, like LB/Tarago, respectively 25 and 35 miles out. Ann T. and John's children tended to be married and buried in G'burn, again the bmd will confirm for you, Algenor and Adeline's first few children were born in G'burn , the next few quite a distance away, then the last John W. was b. G'burn 1895. Will send details from the GPR if you need for the locations of all these events, 1st and 2nd generation.
 The Pamela Ray book of Monumental Inscriptions Goulburn which includes St S's, doesn't have the inscription from the headstone, only the burial details (presumably from the St.S's records), though I will confirm if you need: "Ann Margaret, wife of John NICHOLS died 9 Oct 1853 aged 33 yrs, also John, died 9 Oct 1869 age 53; also Ernest  NICHOLS , born 21 June 1876, died 28th April 1878". So JN seems to be here, then, because there may well have been no room for extra lines when he died, his name is present anyway, and it was probably more fitting for the name of a junior relative to be at the bottom.
The gravestone itself has four lines of 'verse' which I am working on (did you see the four photos I tried to send you? Maybe I could send you via normal email), which may be helped if I contact St S's tomorrow. The Penny Post newspaper indexes led only to the coroner's report on AN, but I'll check for earlier possible references for the Nichollses and say, a death notice for JN. Would it be worthwhile now maybe getting some death certificates for their info for the rels in Oz?
Regarding other deaths, there are no other Nichollses buried in Goulburn that have a listed burial, other than Agenor and Adeline's son, Ernest J. (also not in the RC cem).Possibly little Catherine might have died before her mother, that could have been the reference to "her small child", although there seems no other name mentioned, or even space made available. Certainly there are unmarked burials in St S's cem, AN may have got the best burial, I don't think they had a lot of money and JN died young too.There is no trace of Ann Tew's burial, she must have remarried with up to seven kids and perhaps after the last of her children's marriages in G'burn in 1886, moved away. She was methodist, there was a definite meth. influence in G'burn also, her child Henry James was buried in the meth. section of the  General G'burn (Mortis St) Cem, not in St S's C of E (there IS a "Nicoll" in the meth. section of the map I have, I'll check it tomorrow. It's just a bit closer than St S's and no prison, just an engineering works next door instead - no resting in peace, eh?) Baby William b.1858, d.1859 may be in the same plot, grave site 492, also (I didn't get past checking the T initials today in the Nicholl burial records for the G'burn district). There are listings in the library for all the little (village and property/locality)cems around G'burn, for maybe some of the details of other Nichollses, if that would be helpful. The Goulburn area in some ways is still at the frontier.....
I'll see if I can get a photo sent, I might have tried too many last time.
Andrew

Could I ask for a favor, when you are at the library, that is if you have the time

I have found an Obituary in the Goulburn Evening Penny Post dated 8 October 1931, page 2, for a Edward J ROWE ( I think the given names are Edward John)

It is a lengthy Obit and states that  his funeral was to be held at St Andrews on 9 Oct 1931 , however it does not mention where he was buried.

I was wondering if the FH centre might have any info/ details on where he was buried.

From the Obit he died at his desk at the Goulburn Reformatory, which I guess might now be the security prison

Thanks

Cass


Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Monday 16 March 09 22:30 GMT (UK)



Hi Andrew

Oh, what a night, so pleased you didn't find yourself 'inside'.
I cannot give an exact date for EJN's death.
Whatever, you have given so much info on this family, I am very grateful.
Didn't receive any photos.

Carol
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: krisesjoint on Monday 16 March 09 23:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Andrew,

A Big Welcome to RootsChat.  ;D What a wonderful job you are doing with this.

If you are tring to posts a photo on here, please see

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,130922.0.html

Hope it helps.  :)

Now Folks. Sorry but this is Carol's thread and we must respect that please.

Andrew has been working miracles here for Carol, but please do not him on the spot on her thread. Besides the thread becoming very messy with multiple requests in in, we don't want to don't scare him off.  ;D

For separate requests please start a new topic on the Australia Board. If Andrew or anybody else is able to assist they will see your request.

Thank You.............Kris  :)
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Nichols grave find on Wednesday 18 March 09 02:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol,
That guard on the prison was probably relieved also not to hear a clanking of picks and shovels, and maybe even Phil Tony and Mick from Time Team!

Would have had a post for you yest but didn't know about 'tab', so I lost it into ethernity cross-referencing, oy..... so start again - are you sitting comfortably ? The G'burn Pioneer Register has a contact,

Personal email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the secure PM (personal message system) to share email addresses and other personal information. Thank You

 for Catherine Mary (closer to Mariah, not Margaret) "Nichols", b.27/1/51 at Lake Bathurst, giving his mail address, perhaps he has some good info ( sorry, didn't stay with the GPR long enough the other day).

As to the marriage of JN and AT it was at St. S's, a cathedral, impressive, but then the only real C of E church in G'burn. The church records have them (as "Nicholls") listed as Widower and Spinster respectively, they signed with their X marks, witnesses were Daniel and May Hadwell (who could write). Their first born, Walter b. 1858, was in the G'burn area, at Towrang.There are no references to the Nichollses in the Evening Penny Post until an ad they placed on 28/2/1857, which I'll check on today.

Then Towrang, meant in those days the smaller outer part of G'burn, north of its Wollondilly river, these days it is a village about 5 miles away. It was a poor area, mostly hilly, few roads, few if any shops (probably none), windy and exposed, you were there only if you had to be. There were lots of shacks there in the Depression, only relatively few (better) houses now. You do see the occasional kangaroo/rock wallaby around, they're in a protected area, mixed settled/rural. In the Nicholls' time they would have been more of a nuisance, jumping fences and nibbling garden veggies.

After the marriage their children were all born in the G'burn bdm district, so it became their main residence. Of the two littlies, William b.1858 and Henry James b.1865, W. died at ten months, they were then back out on the land at Inveralochy, a few miles north of Lake Bathurst/Tarago. HJ lived twelve months and died at Towrang. William is in the non-denom part of the Mortis St. cem, HJ again is in the methodist part of the same. Being just babes, there most likely would have been a wooden cross, no stonework, and the place forgotten in time, the crosses crumbling and not replaced, so I'm not expecting to find William (the Nicoll grave mentioned last post is unrelated).

If you get some d/certificates for J/AN, they are available at $24.00 or equivalent, say £11/£12.00, I'd be interested to find out extra details, if you'd kindly pass on. Tell those (Aussie) rels they owe you!

If you need anything extra from the FH centre at the G'burn Library, I can definitely recommend Lyn Bonomini c/o strl[at]goulburn.nsw.gov.au     Moderator Comment: Bussines e-mail edited, to avoid spamming and other abuses. Please replace [at]with @

Best wishes,
Andrew
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Nichols grave find on Wednesday 18 March 09 11:01 GMT (UK)
Carol,

Here goes sending some photos.......
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Nichols grave find on Wednesday 18 March 09 15:02 GMT (UK)
Carol.
Sorry, no can do, I'm using an Mac and sending photos doesn't work using RootsChat m/soft instructions. Even then I can't get the image to transfer from desktop or  Macintosh HD using the browser approach, and entering the JPG number doesn't do a thing, even for a single photo. My partner will have to explain...

So, would you like them through the PM system where you could send me your email address, then I could email them successfully outside RootsChat. Tell me if you have any special requirements or considerations. These photos are a real detective story, the 'verses' so far read a bit like funeral doggerel, but considering how Ann Nicholls died, I think they're worthwhile pursuing. Some of the lines in the evening photos are so close to being legible, they're really a tease ( see what doing Egyptian hieroglyph courses does to you!).

So far I think I have after "....the beloved (wife of) John Nichols":-

        " Who Dep (little raised p as an abbreviation), then some times I can see a short gap, then an 'ed' with a last raised tail on the 'd' as in 'Departed'. Other times I can see "Died" instead. Then I swear I can see a lower case 'o' and 'c' and 't' to make 'oct' for the month, but no visible figures for the month or the year beside. A little further on below the 'HO' of NICHOLS there may be a small 'a' then an italic 'I', 'l', or figure '2', and while this would be the line for figures, it would seem to be a strange way of depicting a '1' while a '2' isn't part of the date at all. At the very end of the first line, there seems to be 'ncur'.

          Most of the first words of the next four lines start in capitals; the second line seems " IN bloom of life s(he was c)alld / arltd away, BY (s)udden de/h-ath a/w-- dear', or '-ath gone afar'" looks likely. So far it scans as verse quite well.The first word of the fourth line isn't in capitals, it could be "Alas", or it even looks like "Whars" (sic). After a space of a few letters, a night photo seems to have 'ntd' just before what looks strangely like a 'ditto' or '-d H' as in 'He', say, and then what looks like good sized continuous letters which are uninterpretable right to the end of the line; the next four or five letters seem to be 'aw/an/inv'. The last line seems the real point, "WITH 'her/their'/ or even 'Lear' small child", she'd have had three by then, six or so and under.

Finally the last entry as we know is "AND" , then below "ERNEST J NICHOL", then below that, "BORN" what would have read "21.6.1876", then below, "DIED 28.4.1878". Tomorrow I'll try another trick and spray a fine water mist over and see what the shading reveals. I suppose it could have ben worse, the headstone is always in the shade but with its angle it catches the rain (and the occasional bird dropping), however G'burn is pretty dry, and like in Egypt, it helps stone preserve. Certainly there is no moss.

The St S people say their archives are now in Canberra, so that's where any original transcription would be, but as considering the info from the Monumental Inscriptions book at G'burn library, I doubt a record would have been kept of the elegy verses, that wouldn't have been essential info for church auhorities, it being personal.

Life wasn't easy in that kind of life for anyone in their situations, so for me it's a real example and a basic part of an important background to modern day G'burn. My interest is also because my partner's g-g-g-grandmother was living in G'burn at Towrang ("Rocky Hill" as it is descriptively called now) between 1860 and 1880. They could have been neighbours, who knows, they would have gone to the same church as methodists, two of their children were born within a year of each other in 1860/61,also two of her kids were buried in unmarked graves in the meth section of the Mortis St cem, in1861 and 1881, the last a young woman of eighteen coming up to the prime of her life who died of pneumonia, such a sad occasion that wouldn't happen today. Living at Rocky Hill area wouldn't have helped, she died in the windy season in August when strong Southerlies blow up from the Snowy Mountains between NSW and Victoria, and even the Antarctic.

Didn't get to the library today, I'll see what I can find tomorow.

Tell me when to stop, if this is enough, and let me know about emailing the photos.

Regards,

Andrew
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: Nichols grave find on Saturday 21 March 09 15:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Carol,

Been trying the last few days to pass on the library info, I just keep looking for other bmd cross check info and losing the post I had, oh boy..... three times, already.

Here we go from the Goulburn Chronicle and Herald ( aren't you glad they changed it to EPP?):-

          1.                 " NOTICE    (Feb 28 1857)
                                 ---------
   This is to give notice that Mrs. John Nichols having left her home without any provocation, I will not be responsible for any debts she is likely to contract after this date. 
                                 JOHN NICHOLS.
                                                  Towrang. "

Not too encouraging, not two years after their marriage, there must have been arguments and such to make her leave four kids and need to live outside and get money through credit. He wanted to humiliate her by everyone knowing, the gossip which could have backfired, and her having to come back, or that's what he has planned. Hopefully it ended well, AT was to conceive in another five or so months, probably unlikely in too stressful a household.

              2." POLICE REPORT - 11 Jan 1862

   J "Nichols" was charged by Mr. Evan Lloyd, by absenting himself from his hired service, and taking with him a padlock and two padlock keys and was fined fifteen shillings and costs "---- "Louis Drewitt, from the Land of Nod was fined £7.00" ..... I kid you not, this really was the next charge.

              3. " INQUEST    24/9/1862
   A man, named John "Nichols", was admitted into the Goulburn Hospital, suffering from asthma. He died on the following morning".
With this, the bdm and now the paper will suggest that any more JNs referred to would tend to be our JN. Except for maybe.....

              4.  "THURSDAY - 22nd DECEMBER, 1864
  John "Nicholls" apprehended by Sergeant Tant for committing a rape on the person of Jane Getters at Sofala some fifteen months ago was remanded to that place".
Not likely to be our JN necessarily, (Sofala is about 250 miles north of G'burn and too far away for JN's need for a stable basis for his work, the gold strikes at Sofala would have tempted him earlier than now, besides, he'd have had his own gold strike in G'burn with the resulting shortage of labour it knew in the 1850's), perhaps this man only got a mention because he had made a getaway to where he was arrested. Hopefully our JN wasn't put away because AT would have been carrying Henry James by now. Also because, meantime back in G'burn

             5. "GOULBURN POLICE COURT
                         WEDNESDAY - MARCH 28  (1866)
    John "Nichols" (and five others) were charged with singing an obscene song, Each was fined 20/- ( JN was lucky, two others were fined £3.00 for obscene language, perhaps no-one heard him)".
Had he had a skinful, it sounds like one of those occasions. Not too much self control, or awareness of others, and not a good example to his teenage kids.
 
             6. "GOULBURN POLICE COURT
                          WEDNESDAY - JULY 18     (1868)
BEFORE the police magistrate.
    John "Nichols" was charged with assaulting George Humphreys, alias Bothering George. Humphreys deposed that while holding the Rev. W. Sowerby's  horse on Friday last defendant struck him and knocked him down.
    The Rev. W. Sowerby corroborated the above.
    Defendant was fined 20s. and costs".

Presuming he wasn't drunk (there would have been another charge) what kind of person would hit someone holding a horse (dangerous) in front of a very well-known cleric whose word would be unimpeachable ( from St S's cathedral, although he wasn't the one who married J and AT). Seems like JN was losing it, certainly he sounds like a bully who had no sense of propriety or real sense of self. If he died barely a year later, maybe he was living by himself and not taking care, maybe he came off the worst for a scrap he got into, maybe he bit off more than he could chew. He sounds a bit of a "type A "personality, his heart may have been susceptible, emotionally his mid-life time esp might not have been easy, of his own making by the looks of things.

And for JN to be buried with his first wife, maybe there was no money or plans for a new/separate grave Did JN die unexpectedly; even the existing plot for AN is a small, unfenced narrow one ( also at this stage I wonder if AT may have refused previously to be buried with him in a new plot or she wanted to be buried in another town). Certainly it doesn't look good, JN could have chosen the site for his burial, a real insult to his present wife or else she again could have been happy for him to be there. Perhaps one reason is just poverty, after JN's creditors had taken their share of his assets, and a single grave was converted to a double (no suggestion of space or otherwise on AN's tombstone for double occupancy), there had been burials for the two little ones William and Henry James in 1859 and 1865, but maybe AT thought of a quick face saving solution for when JN died four years later and he avoided a pauper's grave. Probably the presentation of the gravestone is a sign of this rushed mismash. Even now the upper part is still detachable, because the (cement) repair is ineffective.

I'm over the 5,500 word limit so I'll email the rest.

Regards,
Andrew
Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: sstarr87 on Thursday 25 August 16 23:57 BST (UK)
Hi Carol,

I have just come across your post via a google search on the Nicholls family in Goulburn NSW. I am a direct ancestor of John and Ann Maria/Margaret NICHOLLS and have done a lot of research on the family. If you would like some more information, I'm happy to share documents with you. Please feel free to email me on (*)
  and I can email you some info.

Yours,
Samantha Starr.

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Title: Re: St Saviours Cemetery, Goulburn, N.S.W.
Post by: mentmore on Friday 26 August 16 23:00 BST (UK)

Hello Samantha

Would love to hear from you, but you must make three requests before sending a personal message.

Carol